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GS-911 Error Code Question - Lambda Sensor Related


Trail'R

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I hooked up the GS-911 to my 2001 R1150GS and pulled the following error codes:

 

304: Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth.

This fault occurred 69 times.

The fault is not present now.

4400: Lambda-Control, Upper control limit reached

This fault occurred 72 times.

The fault is not present now.

 

Any thoughts on the cause of the errors?

 

I do have an AF-XIED at setting 7 that I installed this winter. I will also note that I have a 2004 R1150RT and the GS has always had a small amount of surge in low gears compared to the RT. I have always thought it was a lean surge so after reading Roger's threads I installed the AF-XIED in hopes that it would help. Recently I have noticed my GS fuel economy really going down. Unfortunately I installed the AF-XIED at the same time as a larger Aeroflow shield, so I am not sure about root cause on fuel consumption or if it is even related to the error codes.

 

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

 

 

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dirtrider

Afternoon Trail'R

 

It could be a bad 02 sensor, or moisture in the 02 sensor connector, or could be ???

 

OR---

 

What I have found on more than a few on the 1100 & 1150 is the 02 sensor pig tail kind of hanging down loose & being burnt by the cat & exhaust system.

 

OR---

 

I have also found some that (someone) had removed the 02 sensor in the past & didn't unplug it first so the wire pigtail got all twisted up & shorted at the top of the 02 sensor (look for signs of twisting in that area)

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Thanks DR, I am going to check on the items you noted. One good thing about the GS is the ability to easily inspect the O2 cable routing and it all looks good with no obvious twists, burns or kinks. Thinking about your suggestion, I am going to remove the AF-XIED to remove it as a possibility should there be a bad connection when installed. Removal will also allow me to evaluate the fuel consumption at the same time. This weekend I achieved an all-time low of 25MPG on the highway...ouch.

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dirtrider

Morning Trail'R

 

If it was as windy in Wi as it was a bit east here you might have been fighting headwinds.

 

I also got the worst fuel mileage I have ever recorded this weekend on my 1200RT.

 

Running with the cruise control set @ 96mph (GPS) & running into a gusting headwind & swirling head quartering wind (probably 45-50 mph winds) I recorded a record low of mid 20's MPG.

 

I had a couple of wind hits that were so strong that the cruise control couldn't maintain set speed in 6th gear.

 

Some of the lower MPG could have been from the gasoline I had in the tank as all I could find last fill up, that was alcohol free, was 90 octane so I'm sure that engine loading was high enough running into that wind that the spark control was pulling a bunch of spark advance out.

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roger 04 rt

With the GS-911, at warm idle you can check the O2 sensor voltage and also determine if you have a proper oscillating closed loop waveform.

 

If you warm up the motorcycle and look at the realtime O2 sensor voltage, is it steady at 800 mV (rich), steady at about 100 mV(lean) or moving between those values (closed loop)?

 

When my intank fuel hoses failed, I had errors similar to yours.

RB

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D.R.

 

It was very windy on Saturday and I was headed straight into it for 170 miles. I expected better on the return trip with a strong tailwind, no joy and the same low mileage.

 

Roger

 

Thanks for the thoughts. I will do some logging to see if I can figure this out. I also have all the parts for fuel line replacement, so that may help as well. I just need to plan a time when I arrive home with an empty tank.

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roger 04 rt

What happens is that if the fuel hose in the tank ruptures, the fuel pump starts to get weak, the fuel pressure regulator fails, or fuel line in tank splits or comes loose, your fuel pressure and/or fuel volume drops.

 

Then the mixture is always lean. The Motronic thinks the always low voltage is a grounds short. It also has been using its adaptive trims to add fuel. As you can see the trims run to max. This is how low fuel pressure or volume leads to the errors you see.

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dirtrider

Morning Trail'R

 

You would think that if you had in-tank fuel hose failure that you wouldn't have been able to maintain speed into a headwind like that. It takes a lot of power & good fuel flow to pull speed in high gear into a strong wind.

 

If you can find open (& safe) road then see if that bike will run out to top speed for a mile or so. If it will pull top speed then you have plenty of fuel flowing at enough pressure.

 

That 304: Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth seems to point to some sort of sensor malfunction or circuit malfunction.

 

If your bike still has the original 12+ year old 02 sensor you might think about installing a new 02 just for general principal as those things don't maintain peak efficiency for ever.

 

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roger 04 rt

Morning DR,

When it happened to me I rode 30 miles, on the highway, with a partial rupture. Had the same failure log.

 

My theory: pressure or volume is low. Mixture is lean O2 "stuck" at 100 mV. That triggers the short error. Then after trying to "adapt" the mixture up the Motronic runs out of room (about 20% I think). Then you get the second errors. All happens quickly.

 

Then the hose ruptured and the bike quit.

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roger 04 rt
Morning Trail'R

 

If it was as windy in Wi as it was a bit east here you might have been fighting headwinds.

 

I also got the worst fuel mileage I have ever recorded this weekend on my 1200RT.

 

Running with the cruise control set @ 96mph (GPS) & running into a gusting headwind & swirling head quartering wind (probably 45-50 mph winds) I recorded a record low of mid 20's MPG.

 

I had a couple of wind hits that were so strong that the cruise control couldn't maintain set speed in 6th gear.

 

Some of the lower MPG could have been from the gasoline I had in the tank as all I could find last fill up, that was alcohol free, was 90 octane so I'm sure that engine loading was high enough running into that wind that the spark control was pulling a bunch of spark advance out.

 

Based on your numbers, 30 mph effective headwind and 95 mph your engine was producing the 95 HP needed to go 125 mph, somewhere near maximum. Compared to 70, where you might get 44 mpg (??) you would use about 20 HP, it is easy to see how you might have gotten MPGs in the low 20s.

 

Here is a good list of the things that effect fuel economy: Fuel Economy Factors.

 

The things that jump out, worst case:

 

Winter vs Summer Fuel: ~3 - 8%

Winter vs Summer Air Drag: ~5 - 13%

Headwinds: ~2 - 23%

Speed (70 vs 55 mph): ~25%

Acceleration Rate: ~12 - 20%

Idling/Warmup Summer vs Winter: up to ~20%

 

So if your usual mileage is 41 mpg in the summer, in the winter you could see 5% for fuel, 8% for drag, 10% for headwinds and 8% for other or about 30% worse mileage on the wrong day. 70% of 41 mpg could bring you to low 30s or lower.

 

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dirtrider
clip---

 

Then the hose ruptured and the bike quit.

 

Morning Roger

 

That is the thing that usually happens fairly quickly once the fuel in the tank warms up & the hose softens.

 

I could see a BMW boxer doing that & getting his failure codes but doing that for many miles, both into & with the wind, would be very unusual.

 

If it was running that lean at speed you would think that it would have been getting fantastic fuel mileage, or if it was running on the lean side of full adaption then it should have been cackling like a paint shaker full of BB's & been very lethargic to the throttle at speed.

 

 

At his time & mileage on that bike I guess it probably doesn't matter much what is causing the codes as both the in-tank hoses & the 02 sensor should probably be changed out if still original.

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roger 04 rt
clip---

...

 

If it was running that lean at speed you would think that it would have been getting fantastic fuel mileage, or if it was running on the lean side of full adaption then it should have been cackling like a paint shaker full of BB's & been very lethargic to the throttle at speed.

 

...

 

Morning DR, When mine started to fail I first felt less response to the throttle. Then five miles later I noticed some pinging. Then 10 miles later on the highway a loss of power. Then at 70 mph, a big loss of power. By the time I got to the side of the road, it would barely idle. I managed to nurse it another half mile to a safe spot.

 

I'm curious though how a very clogged filter might respond.

 

If he gets the GS-911 back on the bike, he can measure the O2 sensor.

 

If he can connect a line to the fuel tank return hose, he can measure the return volume which should be about a half gallon a minute at idle.

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dirtrider

Morning Roger

 

I would imagine it depends on how plugged the filter was.

 

As a rule a plugging fuel filter first shows up at high speeds where you need a lot of fuel flow & just don't have it.

(Weak high speed throttle response, won't pull into a stiff head wind, running out of passing power part way through the pass, can't reach top speed, won't climb a long hill at speed, etc).

 

Personally, I seldom if ever replace a fuel filter on a BMW boxer just to do it, or at, any specific mileage. (in fact the BMW 1200RT hexhead doesn't even have a replaceable fuel filter)

 

If clean fuel is used then those fuel filters will go for over a 100K without issues. On the other hand even a brand new filter can completely plug up in less than a tank of fuel if dirty contaminated fuel is used.

 

One reason I have always been against using a remote mounted fuel filter on the BMW is there is still that fragile pump intake sock remaining in the tank. From what I have seen in the past those are more likely to fail, crumble, or plug up than the filter itself.

 

For some reason I usually do test the top speed of about anything I ride or drive pretty often. In fact when running a GPS I almost never return home with less than 100 mph trapped & more often than not a fair amount higher than that.

 

Once a person knows what the level-road top speed of their healthy motorcycle is then a fuel filter flow test is just a wrist twist away on safe-to-do-so-road.

 

A running engine, fuel return hose flow test, is another way to test fuel delivery for the riders that aren't comfortable running triple digits.

 

That fuel hose failure you mentioned above is pretty typical on how they act & HOW QUICKLY they go from poor throttle response, to lower (more difficult to maintain) cruising speed, to pinging, to walk home mode.

 

Possibly a loose internal high pressure hose clamp allowing a fixed (but constant) internal fuel leak might go on for a long time period with reduced performance but as a rule a small high pressure hose split (usual failure mode) goes from a small leak to a large leak in a very short time period.

 

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  • 1 month later...

 

My theory: pressure or volume is low. Mixture is lean O2 "stuck" at 100 mV. That triggers the short error. Then after trying to "adapt" the mixture up the Motronic runs out of room (about 20% I think). Then you get the second errors. All happens quickly.

 

Then the hose ruptured and the bike quit.

 

A long overdue update on this thread...I was able to remove and replace all of the hoses, filter, and fuel pump. I found that I had a hole in the fuel pump due to my siphon sucker rubbing the pump. The siphon sucker pulls from the left tank lobe to the right tank lobe on the GS. On the non-adventure tank there is no connecting hose between the two sides, so this is designed to siphon fuel from one side to the other internal to the tank. I have removed the device and will live with a shorter range.

 

After replacement, my Short-circuit to Earth is no longer appearing.

 

Watching the lambda voltage at warm idle, it stays lean at 90mV the majority of the time. Every once in awhile, it will rise to rich in short bursts, but not in a consistent oscillating fashion. This is with the engine temp at 5-6 bars.

 

When driving, I am still receiving errors for upper control limit reached with AF-XIED set at 7.

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roger 04 rt

Let's try and fix the warm idle problem. If your GS-911 is not showing and oscillating pattern every second or so that's an issue.

 

Your Motronic has more than enough range to accomodate setting 9 or 10, setting 7 is a piece of cake for it.

 

It seems likely to me that your fuel pump problem brought the long term trims all the way to their limit. Now you need to reset the Adaptation Values.

 

If you haven't, remove Fuse 5 for 5-10 minutes. Then reinstall. Then key on, rotate the throttle twice, then key off.

 

Then you're good to go and that should solve the problem, that is unless your fuel pressure is still low.

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Roger,

 

Many thanks for the quick response.

 

I performed the reset along with adjustment of the TPS range. I did see oscillation but it eventually settled in on the 90mV range again.

 

Here is a link to the CSV log if there is interest. This was logged at idle until 5 bars and then at the end I did increase engine revs to ~3000 RPM to see if there was a response.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24441483/R1150GS%20log%2006142014.csv

 

 

 

 

 

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roger 04 rt

Thanks. I'll check out later.

 

If you have an oilhead on the centerstand it exits closed loop above 2000 rpm.

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Ran again with a higher sample rate. Is there a warm engine temperature where it exits closed loop at idle?

 

My learning curve is still steep, I appreciate the knowledge sharing.

 

Run #2 Data Log

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Had time to go for a ride to check on performance and to monitor if any fault codes reappeared. Unfortunately, the faults did return. It is interesting that both occurred equal times. I am not sure what that means, but it may provide a clue.

 

 

304: Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Circuit Malfunction, Short-circuit to Earth.

This fault occurred 59 times.

The fault is not present now.

4400: Lambda-Control, Upper control limit reached

This fault occurred 59 times.

The fault is not present now.

 

To review work to date:

Replaced fuel lines, fuel filter, fuel pump and vent lines. TPS has been confirmed adjusted via GS-911. No CCP installed. Full reset of ECU.

 

 

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Retraced my route except this time I totally removed the AF-XIED and returned it to stock mapping. Reset the ECU and took off for the ride. After returning, checked faults and found none, nada, zip!

 

So with this information it makes me consider a ground error or a bad connector in the AF-XEID as the source of the issue. All connections were firm as I was checking with this in the back of mind if I returned with not faults. If this is the case, would this produce the faults displayed?

 

No more data collection for awhile. I am going to leave it as stock and run it for a few thousand miles to see if the errors return. I may consider hooking up the AF-XIED to my RT at some future date as a cross reference to this data.

 

 

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roger 04 rt

Your last test without the AF-XIED is interesting and helps with the analysis of the data you had in the drop box file. But before thinking about the new info sans XIED, I have some thoughts below. First though, where did you ground the af-XIED?

 

The Dropbox data from your run with the XIED showed several things.

 

On the good list:

-Rpm profile good versus TPS.

-Battery steady in high 13s

-Air & oil temp behaved normally

-Ignition advance and dwell were steady, and normal

-AF-XIED high and low output voltages normal

-Motronic was able to go in and out of closed loop

-Tank vent came on, did not affect performance

 

On the not good list

-During the first few minutes of warm up, before closed loop, the AF-XIED was indicating a lean reading of the O2 sensor. This isn't usual. In fact I've never seen this behavior before.

-Went into closed loop and then dropped out, then back into closed loop. Not usual. Normally, at idle, once warm, stays in closed loop.

-As bike warmed up, injection times at idle increased. Not correct. This was a clear sign that the Motronic was adding fuel to the long term fuel trim but still couldn't get the mixture rich enough to satisfy the AF-XIED and Motronic for closed loop operation. This behavior led to the Error Logs you got. No question, so we can see solid cause and effect.

 

Possible causes:

-Too much air relative to the TPS voltage. (Has anyone changed the throttle stop screws or done anything to allow extra air in?)

-Fuel pressure low. (Should measure fuel pressure.)

-O2 sensor heater broken leading to poor O2 sensor performance & inability to output a full rich signal. (Can check resistance between white wires on O2 sensor, should be 3-6 ohms. Also can measure voltage across white wires at warm idle, should be 12V.)

-O2 sensor worn out and unable to produce a full-rich signal.

-AF-XIED ground bad or unit defective. (XIED seems operational based on data set but can't be positive without further tests.)

 

One more set of data would be very helpful to this diagnosis. Leave everything as you now have it (no AF-XIED attached), and take another 5-10 minute cold start to warm up GS-911 log at idle. We will then have good numbers on your O2 sensor.

 

Tomorrow I will add some charts for the data you sent today that shows these symptoms.

 

I'm sure this is frustrating but we can get to the bottom of it.

RB

 

 

 

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roger 04 rt
Retraced my route except this time I totally removed the AF-XIED and returned it to stock mapping. Reset the ECU and took off for the ride. After returning, checked faults and found none, nada, zip!

 

So with this information it makes me consider a ground error or a bad connector in the AF-XEID as the source of the issue. All connections were firm as I was checking with this in the back of mind if I returned with not faults. If this is the case, would this produce the faults displayed?

 

No more data collection for awhile. I am going to leave it as stock and run it for a few thousand miles to see if the errors return. I may consider hooking up the AF-XIED to my RT at some future date as a cross reference to this data.

 

 

This is good info and helps a lot. If you can collect the log mentioned in my last post I'll have a very good idea what's going on.

 

Depending on this result, I may suggest to Nightrider that they swap out your controller and cable.

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Roger, A big thanks for taking the time to poke into the data collected. This is interesting stuff and I am enjoying the analysis and your thoughts as I go through the bike.

 

Here is data run number 3 with no AF-XIED.

 

Run #3 Data Log

 

 

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roger 04 rt

Thanks for the data. I am going to post some really fascinating charts later today. The problem is almost certainly with the O2 sensor. I want to check one thing, have you plugged the O2 directly into the Motronic connector (meaning have you removed the AF-XIED cable)?

 

The problem that kept the AF-XIED from shifting your mixture is that your O2 sensor is outputting a too-low voltage, only about 750 mV. As a result of that, it never registered richly enough to get to the AF-XIED's setting 7 threshhold.

 

If you get time, unplug the O2 and measure the heater resistance. That would be interesting. You measure it by measuring the resistance between the two white wires, pins 1 and 2 on the connector.

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Morning Roger, the AF-XIED is totally removed off of the bike and sits ready for duty on the bench.

 

If the O2 sensor is bad, I have a choice to make. Next to the AF-XIED happens to sit a brand new LC-1 or I may pursue installation of the Bosch 15109 (I need to confirm part number) replacement sensor, which appears to have the same stock connector. I installed the AF-XIED on the GS since I do not have a good location to hide the the splice box on the LC-1 and I like the set and forget function of the AF-XIED.

 

I will pull the tank and check the resistance later today. The girls are going to take me to a movie for Father's Day so my day is booked with activities this morning.

 

I am looking forward to your graphs and analysis.

 

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I was able to pull the tank and check the resistance on the sensor white wires. Resistance is 3.2 Ohms on the original sensor and that matches the resistance on the new Bosch sensor I purchased.

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Installed the Bosch 15109, which I found locally at AutoZone. Install was pretty straight forward after dropping the cat and exhaust. Really easy task on the GS. The 15109 was an exact match of the OEM and it includes the correct connector for the R1150, no splicing required. Cost was around $60.

 

I reset the ECU by pulling fuse #5 and ran another cold data log below.

 

Run #4 Data Log

 

Took the bike for a 45 mile loop and there is noticeable improvement. Hard to say how long the sensor has been bad, but I have owned the bike since 2006 and during all of the time, the ride characteristics on surge have been very consistent. My test is 30MPH in 2nd gear at 3200RPM. I still have a slight surge, but not as noticeable as before.

 

Let's see what the data indicates to see if we have exorcised all of the fueling demons.

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roger 04 rt

Below is the second data set, stock O2, no AF-XIED. A lot of what's going on is fine but there are a few things that I haven't seen before.

 

--The mixture starts rich before closed loop but when the fast idle lever is released, the mixture goes lean (100mV) for a while, the engine warms up some more, and the the mixture is rich before finally entering closed loop. That lean period is unusual.

 

--The rich voltages in closed loop are below 800 mV. That is lower than I'm used to seeing.

 

--After it enters closed loop, occasionally the lambda control signal drops from 1 to 0. This means that closed loop is momentarily disabled. I can't see any reason for this happening from the other sensors. I never see that behavior on other R1150 bikes. At idle the Motronic always holds a steady closed loop until you blip the throttle.

 

I will look at your other data tomorrow. Perhaps it was the O2 sensor, maybe it is slow and that's why its voltage is low. I will also look at the same data from another R1150GS.

 

lazy02sensor1.jpg

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roger 04 rt
Your last test without the AF-XIED is interesting and helps with the analysis of the data you had in the drop box file. But before thinking about the new info sans XIED, I have some thoughts below. First though, where did you ground the af-XIED?

 

The Dropbox data from your run with the XIED showed several things.

 

On the good list:

-Rpm profile good versus TPS.

-Battery steady in high 13s

-Air & oil temp behaved normally

-Ignition advance and dwell were steady, and normal

-AF-XIED high and low output voltages normal

-Motronic was able to go in and out of closed loop

-Tank vent came on, did not affect performance

 

On the not good list

-During the first few minutes of warm up, before closed loop, the AF-XIED was indicating a lean reading of the O2 sensor. This isn't usual. In fact I've never seen this behavior before.

-Went into closed loop and then dropped out, then back into closed loop. Not usual. Normally, at idle, once warm, stays in closed loop.

-As bike warmed up, injection times at idle increased. Not correct. This was a clear sign that the Motronic was adding fuel to the long term fuel trim but still couldn't get the mixture rich enough to satisfy the AF-XIED and Motronic for closed loop operation. This behavior led to the Error Logs you got. No question, so we can see solid cause and effect.

 

Possible causes:

-Too much air relative to the TPS voltage. (Has anyone changed the throttle stop screws or done anything to allow extra air in?)

-Fuel pressure low. (Should measure fuel pressure.)

-O2 sensor heater broken leading to poor O2 sensor performance & inability to output a full rich signal. (Can check resistance between white wires on O2 sensor, should be 3-6 ohms. Also can measure voltage across white wires at warm idle, should be 12V.)

-O2 sensor worn out and unable to produce a full-rich signal.

-AF-XIED ground bad or unit defective. (XIED seems operational based on data set but can't be positive without further tests.)

 

One more set of data would be very helpful to this diagnosis. Leave everything as you now have it (no AF-XIED attached), and take another 5-10 minute cold start to warm up GS-911 log at idle. We will then have good numbers on your O2 sensor.

 

Tomorrow I will add some charts for the data you sent today that shows these symptoms.

 

I'm sure this is frustrating but we can get to the bottom of it.

RB

 

 

 

Below is the chart that goes with the above comments. This is your stock O2 and the AF-XIED.

 

Notice the increase to injection time after it enters closed loop. This is due to the Motronic adding to a long term fuel trim, trying to get a stable, richer mixture but the AF-XIED never sees a high enough O2 voltage from your lambda sensor. I have never seen this behavior before but it is a very real confirmation that the Motronic learns and creates Long Term Fuel Trims.

 

What I see here is consistent with the low voltage in the prior chart of just your stock O2.

 

It will be interesting to see what the new data from your new sensor looks like. I haven't ruled out some other cause entirely yet (low fuel pressure and too much air at idle still come to mind).

 

lazy02sensor2.jpg

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roger 04 rt

Installed the Bosch 15109, which I found locally at AutoZone. Install was pretty straight forward after dropping the cat and exhaust. Really easy task on the GS. The 15109 was an exact match of the OEM and it includes the correct connector for the R1150, no splicing required. Cost was around $60.

 

I reset the ECU by pulling fuse #5 and ran another cold data log below.

 

Run #4 Data Log

 

Took the bike for a 45 mile loop and there is noticeable improvement. Hard to say how long the sensor has been bad, but I have owned the bike since 2006 and during all of the time, the ride characteristics on surge have been very consistent. My test is 30MPH in 2nd gear at 3200RPM. I still have a slight surge, but not as noticeable as before.

 

Let's see what the data indicates to see if we have exorcised all of the fueling demons.

 

I haven't had a chance to plot the data, but I have scrolled through it. Tthere are three things that look much better:

 

1) Higher rich voltages both during warm up and later.

2) Once it entered closed loop control, it did not drop out as it did in the other two data sets.

3) The closed loop period at idle looks like 5-6 seconds. That is long but consistent with other 1150GS bikes I have data on.

 

I will plot this tomorrow.

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Thanks for the analysis. I like the systematic approach as we march through the data. As DR stated, replacement of the O2 sensor and the hoses was in due order for a bike of this age. Glad to have the new parts installed.

 

In regards to other issues, an air leak is possible given the age of the o-rings on the intake tubes. My TB balance is dead even through all RPM ranges using my Twin Max at maximum sensitivity. This is an area that I take extra care to keep the bike running smooth. I balanced and checked for all of the data logs performed.

 

The throttle stops are at stock stetting and have not been adjusted. Both open and close at the stops at the same time, so I think we can rule this out. I am also not hearing any noise that would indicate that the bushing is worn.

 

The air filter is brand new and fully seated correctly.

 

To rule out air leaks, I will spray some starter fluid at the joints to see if I can hear a change in idle level.

 

I am starting to research the fuel pressure measurement process. The bike is able to run up to speed 90+ very quickly with no stuttering, which I take that it is receiving adequate fuel. I guess there is still a chance that it may be creating a lean condition from low pressure.

 

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roger 04 rt

The data from the new sensor looks very good. One thing I'm not used to seeing though is lean operation during warm-up (will show plot later). Now you should ride for a tank of gas or so to let the adaptives fully form. Testing during this period is fine, just try and not reset the Motronic.

 

Then after a half tank of fuel or so, take another cold start log just like the last one.

 

Edit:

 

The chart below looks good for each sensor, better than before. The O2 sensor is outputting a higher voltage (100 mV higher) and importantly, the Lambda Control line stays in Closed Loop steadily now compared to dropping out of Closed Loop in the earlier charts. (It leaves closed loop when the throttle is blipped, that's okay.)

 

However, look at the period before Closed Loop but after the Fast Idle lever is dropped (that's when the TPS signal drops from 1.92 to zero). During that time (engine temp in the 40-60C range), the O2 sensor voltage goes from rich (800mV) to lean and even bounces around. This indicates that the AFR is around 14.7:1. That's 5-10% leaner than I'd expect.

 

Let's see what adaptation does after you've ridden for a while, then take another cold start log.

 

P.S. In the state it is now, the AF-XIED is likely to work. But let's figure out the cold start leanness first if we can.

 

lazy02sensor3.jpg

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Thanks Roger, I will hold steady with the current configuration until I am able to get some miles on the bike. I will target having an update after I have a few thousand miles which will give time for the ECU to adapt.

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roger 04 rt
The data from the new sensor looks very good. One thing I'm not used to seeing though is lean operation during warm-up (will show plot later). Now you should ride for a tank of gas or so to let the adaptives fully form. Testing during this period is fine, just try and not reset the Motronic.

 

Then after a half tank of fuel or so, take another cold start log just like the last one.

 

Edit:

 

The chart below looks good for each sensor, better than before. The O2 sensor is outputting a higher voltage (100 mV higher) and importantly, the Lambda Control line stays in Closed Loop steadily now compared to dropping out of Closed Loop in the earlier charts. (It leaves closed loop when the throttle is blipped, that's okay.)

 

However, look at the period before Closed Loop but after the Fast Idle lever is dropped (that's when the TPS signal drops from 1.92 to zero). During that time (engine temp in the 40-60C range), the O2 sensor voltage goes from rich (800mV) to lean and even bounces around. This indicates that the AFR is around 14.7:1. That's 5-10% leaner than I'd expect.

 

Let's see what adaptation does after you've ridden for a while, then take another cold start log.

 

P.S. In the state it is now, the AF-XIED is likely to work. But let's figure out the cold start leanness first if we can.

 

lazy02sensor3.jpg

 

Trail'R,

When you lower the fast idle lever during warm up, you can see the O2 sensor going lean. I'm curious, does your bike idle well at the moment you drop the Fast Idle?

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So I now have some additional miles on the bike in the stock configuration. I added 1700 miles on it this past weekend with some fairly intense ride time. I have some observations after spending 21 hours in the saddle on Saturday putting the bike through some spirited riding.

 

Here is a link to data log #5.

 

Run #5 Data Log

 

Observations:

1. Fuel economy is back to normal after an extensive number of tanks. My riding consists of multiple starts and stops in a long distance rally moving between bonus stops. I experienced roads from Interstates to County Highways and the fuel consumption remained where I expected.

 

2. There is the same amount of surge most noticeable in 2nd/3rd gears around the 3200RPM mark. Feels like a lean to rich surge possibly from a power imbalance between the cylinders. I would rank this as no better or worse than before. It is seems to be more noticeable as the ambient temperatures rise especially in the upper 80's. I would rank this as a nuisance more than anything.

 

3. The one area the is of concern is the bike has a vibration in the upper gears and at interstate speed. After experiencing it again I did recall that I experienced this on the ride in my first post when I received all of the lambda errors and was hopeful that it would be fixed as a result of the fuel lines/pump/O2 sensor replacement. It hard to describe, but it is a higher frequency buzz with an oscillation and certainly more than I am use to experiencing on a boxer which I equate to lower frequencies. It is very fatiguing over such a long ride and can be felt in the foot pegs as well as on top of the switchgear. The grips seem to provide some masking of the vibration, but my hands are also fatigued more than past rallys of the same type. I mention all of this in hope it provides a directional clue. I will check to confirm TB sync at idle and at speed to see if this will provide an indication.

 

4. I also want to note that I sprayed the intake tubes and TB's with starter fluid looking for an air leak. I did not hear a change in RPM's from doing this.

 

5. When I dropped the fast idle lever I did not sense that the bike was going to stumble. With a new suspicious ear, I do hear a slight rhythmic pulse, but I am not sure if this is normal or an anomaly. I may use my RT as a baseline for comparison.

 

As next step I keep reflecting on the fuel pressure. I am going to perform a test so we can either rule it out as suspect or possibly identify it as an issue.

 

Also notable, there were no error codes from the weekend riding so that should be behind us.

 

As far as next steps, I am considering adding the AF-XIED back into the mix to see if it helps with the upper vibration possibly compensating for a power imbalance between the cylinders. I am planning to participate in a 6 day rally and need to make a decision if the bike is up to the task or if I need to withdraw or try and prep a different machine. I do know that I will not make 6 days on the current bike.

 

The assistance is much appreciated!!

 

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Evening Trail'R

 

Some engine buzzing the 4-5K RPM range is normal & expected. You just can't eliminate that on the Big piston 2 cylinder boxer engine.

 

No way to know from here if yours is worse that most others.

 

One thing I can say is-- once you tune into the boxer buzz it is always there to bug you.

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One thing I can say is-- once you tune into the boxer buzz it is always there to bug you.

 

Duh! I was afraid of that. I am going to give this the ol collage try to fix the current state. I have the AutoZone pressure test gauge hooked up, but no pressure reading. The loan a tool may need replacement. Off to find another gauge.

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I have confirmed that the fuel pressure remains constant a 45 psi so we can now take that out of the equation as possible causes.

 

 

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roger 04 rt

I've plotted and studied the data (don't have time for a graph for the thread).

 

Other than the mixture is lean during warm up, which I still don't understand, everything looks like it's working. I will try to run the same test on my R1150RT, dropping the fast idle lever at the same point.

 

I think you should try putting the AF-XIED back on and use setting 8, go for broke. If you get no errors, and you can send another cold start log, we can quickly confirm operation. If something goes wrong you can choose setting 1 and be back to stock.

 

Fingers crossed, you may now get a very good result.

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roger 04 rt

Just to be more clear about what I'm seeing, you start the bike with the fast idle lever all the way up, then after a couple minutes on run #5 you put the fast idle lever full off.

 

Your bike is the only one I've seen that goes lean (hard lean, O2 sensor 70 mV!) during the warm up period before closed loop. Although the mixture is rich with the lever full up, it is lean with the lever off.

 

More interesting is it looks from the rpm and ignaition advance graphs that it idles just fine. That suggests enough air is entering such that it idles fine with the lever down and TPS indicating 0.32 degrees.

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Just to be more clear about what I'm seeing, you start the bike with the fast idle lever all the way up, then after a couple minutes on run #5 you put the fast idle lever full off.

 

That is correct as you described. To keep it consistent with #4 I put the fast idle lever full off at 40 degrees C. I plotted and noted the lean warm-up as well. I need to remember to log in turbo mode on the GS-911, but the overall pattern in #5 mirrors #4 with the exception of less hunting right after fast idle full off.

 

I am not sure if this is on all bikes, but my GS appears to consistently go into closed loop at 60 degrees C.

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roger 04 rt

I noticed yours is at 60c every time too. Mine goes into closed loop around 60 but seems to change a little based on air and oil temp. Is will double check.

 

I'll run the check on my dual-spark '04 RT as early this morning as I can.

 

What so you think about giving the XIED a try now, you can always use setting 1 or 2 if your still getting error codes.

 

Also Steve at Nightrider just finished a jumper plug so you don't have to remove the cable. Call him.

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roger 04 rt

I found a single-spark R1150GS in my data set. Best yet, in one of his cold start logs the Fast Idle Lever is dropped to 0.32 degrees before Closed Loop. Result: Rich for a while after Fast Idle off but eventually lean before Closed Loop

 

In another Log, the fast idle lever is in the detent position until Closed Loop. Result: Rich until Closed Loop.

 

TrailR, if you have a moment run to closed loop with the fast idle lever in the detent (mid) position. (I will try your set up.)

 

We may be learning something about cold start behavior.

 

PS: His goes closed loop at 60C.

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roger 04 rt

I pulled out the LC-1 Log that I have for that same R1150GS bike which was running coincidentally with the GS-911 data. With the fast idle lever dropped to 0.32 degrees, his bikes AFR goes to the target Lambda, meaning it shows as slightly rich when the idle lever is dropped and then goes slightly lean.

 

It is looking like the evidence shows that the warm-up enrichment factor is only applied if the throttle is off the stops. I will try to confirm on mine.

 

If the above is true, then your lean warm up is throttle related and we can ignore it.

 

When you can, I think it's time to connect the XIED and give 'er a rip.

 

Now that you have the new O2 sensor in I'm betting your XIED will work. Setting 7 or 8 should make a big difference to your surging and may smooth your engine. Fingers crossed.

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roger 04 rt

I ran the same log as TrailR on my '04RT this morning and got different behavior.

 

1)My bike went Closed Loop at 45C compared to TrailR's '01GS that always waits till 60C.

 

2) Even when I dropped the Fast Idle Lever fully, my mixture stayed rich.

 

I think the dual-spark RT behaves differently than the single-spark GS.

 

Therefore, I'd go ahead and reinstall the AF-XIED now that you've replaced the O2 sensor.

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I will do that tonight and run a cold log. Should I reset the ECU or add the AF-XIED with the adapted values?

 

I ran a cold start on my '04RT as well this morning and it was not the same as the GS. I noted some issues now that my eye is trained a bit more on the log analysis, but that is a discussion for another thread.

 

'04 RT Data Log

 

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roger 04 rt

It's better if you don't reset the adaptives. The only time I recommend it is if someone's removing something like a BoosterPlug.

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roger 04 rt
I will do that tonight and run a cold log. Should I reset the ECU or add the AF-XIED with the adapted values?

 

I ran a cold start on my '04RT as well this morning and it was not the same as the GS. I noted some issues now that my eye is trained a bit more on the log analysis, but that is a discussion for another thread.

 

'04 RT Data Log

 

That's a very strange data set. When you drop the TPS, closed loop control stays effective but the O2 sensor indicates rich for about 20 seconds. Is there anything non-standard about your intake, exhaust or fueling?

 

You're right, I guess it should be a new thread.

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All stock low mileage bike. The bike was purchased by the original owner overseas and then brought into the US, but it does have all of the US requirements. I am interested into looking at it in more detail and will post in another thread if there is interest. Hopefully this knowledge sharing will help somebody else down the road.

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Now I am really confused! I ran another cold start with the AF-XIED installed and now the charts are not making sense to me. How did I end up with a negative lambda voltage and intermittent closed loop?

 

I double checked the ground and the connectors only install one direction.

 

Data Run #7 w/ AF-XIED

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