2013 RT 6000 mi service

[walton66]

gathering necessary stuff for the 6000 mile service on my 2013rt and got to wondering about the valve adjustment. When I measure the gap and it's out of adjustment and I ascertain the shim size I have and need, I guess I will leave the engine apart until I can order the right shims. Sounds foolish as I type the following question ... is there a way to order an assortment of shims in advance?

 

Anyone in central FL with a tool for TB synch? Don't have one, don't want to buy one, pizza and beer in trade for helping me with that after New Years.

[Guest Kakugo]

General rule of thumb is if you measure your valve clearance and find it, say, 0.05mm tighter than specs, you get a new shim 0.05mm less than what you presently have on the valve. Just be sure to have a good micrometer at hand and you'll be fine.

 

The problem with the Camhead is it doesn't use ordinary shims but semi-spherical ones, same as the Wedge I4 engines (K1200/1300). These are very hard to find outside the BMW network as most people who check their clearance usually only need a couple and hence find more convenient to get them from a dealer.

You may have better luck asking the dirt riding community as the G450X and, I think, some Husqvarna models use those shims and require a valve clearance check every 20 hours.

[walton66]

Thanks, for the input, my closest dealer is 5 hours away by slab so I'll be looking for a dealer that will let me order the required shims, might be that shop, haven't asked yet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Firenailer]

 

Check the MAX BMW website. They have a great parts dept and will ship whatever you need out to you quickly.

[wymanwinn]

+1....Max BMW are super fast on shipping and have great prices....AND you get a bag of M&Ms.....

 

wyman

[walton66]

plain or peanut? either way is OK! Thanks for sharing the insight.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

When I rebuilt a oilhead FD, I ordered from these guys:

Cycle Specialties

 

I was surprised to get a phone call from the parts desk with dimensions on the shim I ordered. They wanted to know if the actual shim met my stack-up need. It didn't so, she (don't recall her name) went and searched for one that did.

They aren't close but, clearly have people who do more than merely look at fiche.....as we used to say 40 years ago when I worked in an import auto parts store.

[David R]

At 6,000 miles all the valves were in spec.

By 20,000 they had opened up about .001", so I decided to adjust them.

 

Its easy to pull the finger and remove the shim. I removed then, recorded what each one was and put the bike back together. I then ordered what i needed.

 

Once I knew they were going to "grow open", I shimmed the to the low side of the clearance.

 

Now I have a record of what is in there so next time, I just measure and order.

 

I only needed 3 shims because I shuffled some around.

 

After I did this and synced the TBs, the bike ran better than it ever did.

[GregsARed]

Anyone... with a tool for TB synch? Don't have one, don't want to buy one....

 

Perhaps one of the cheapest tools you can buy for a BMW is a 'tool' for TB synch. For about the same cost as a cheap bottle of beer you can have your own.

 

A google search for 'water manometer BMW' will lead you back to this site or other another and tell you all about it. The simplest, like mine, consists of one part, a tube, connected to each TB and hung to one side across the seat (PERIOD).

 

 

[walton66]

Thanks, since my post, I have come to the same conclusion. Over the years it's the only think I have never acquired so I guess it's time. Probably next weekend I will begin the project. My wife has surgery on Dec 30 so I won't be in any hurry.

 

This has been a nice group to discover, thanks and Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.

[OlGeezer]

Anyone... with a tool for TB synch? Don't have one, don't want to buy one....

 

Perhaps one of the cheapest tools you can buy for a BMW is a 'tool' for TB synch. For about the same cost as a cheap bottle of beer you can have your own.

 

A google search for 'water manometer BMW' will lead you back to this site or other another and tell you all about it. The simplest, like mine, consists of one part, a tube, connected to each TB and hung to one side across the seat (PERIOD).

 

 

I wouldn't waste my time on a water (or tyranny fluid or...) manometer. Google "carbs tune II" and forget it.

[cris nitro]

Anyone... with a tool for TB synch? Don't have one, don't want to buy one....

 

Perhaps one of the cheapest tools you can buy for a BMW is a 'tool' for TB synch. For about the same cost as a cheap bottle of beer you can have your own.

 

A google search for 'water manometer BMW' will lead you back to this site or other another and tell you all about it. The simplest, like mine, consists of one part, a tube, connected to each TB and hung to one side across the seat (PERIOD).

 

 

I wouldn't waste my time on a water (or tyranny fluid or...) manometer. Google "carbs tune II" and forget it.

 

Why do you say that? My manometer works perfectly and csot almost nothing.

[OlGeezer]

Anyone... with a tool for TB synch? Don't have one, don't want to buy one....

 

Perhaps one of the cheapest tools you can buy for a BMW is a 'tool' for TB synch. For about the same cost as a cheap bottle of beer you can have your own.

 

A google search for 'water manometer BMW' will lead you back to this site or other another and tell you all about it. The simplest, like mine, consists of one part, a tube, connected to each TB and hung to one side across the seat (PERIOD).

 

 

 

I wouldn't waste my time on a water (or tyranny fluid or...) manometer. Google "carbs tune II" and forget it.

 

Why do you say that? My manometer works perfectly and csot almost nothing.

 

I thought it was a PITA. May've the granny fluid I used didn't have enough viscosity, but it bounced too much. In other words, it was TOO sensitive and not dampened. I chose tranny fluid because I thought the red fluid would be easier to see. Perhaps water works better than tranny fluid. My main point is I think it's a little silly to try to save $100on a valuable tuning tool that one will use several times. This is one of those anecdotal examples where the cheapest thing on a BMW is the rider.

 

In my humble opinion.

 

If it works for you, I respect that. I just don't know the background of the OP. Maybe saving $100 over the life of the rider is a big deal.

[David R]

Its not the money saved.

 

For years I used the "Short one plug" method on my Airhead. Then I bought an oilhead and made up the manometer. It works and it can't be wrong.

 

Electronic tools take he vacuum and convert it to electronic data so it can be compared.

 

A manometer leaves out the steps and lets you compare the data in real time. That is the best part, its so simple it can't screw up. The battery can't be half dead.

 

I used ATF because if the engine accidently drinks it, oil is better than water.

 

I used the manometer on my Airhead and it never idled so well. Now I use the same manometer on my 2012 R1200r and my Versys.

 

The manometer does only one thing, compare one side to the other. no numbers matter just as long as both sides are the same.

 

I confess, I have never used a twinmax or other method.

 

I am a 35 year mechanic.

 

David

[walton66]

I'm well into the process and what do you know, my spark plug socket won't fit . I've ordered one so I can remove a plug to facilitate moving the engine to check valve clearances. Made a mess on my garage floor with the transmission fluid. Maybe next weekend I'll get my RT stitched back together. Still hanging back on the TB synch tool. Maybe I'll order one this week.

[OlGeezer]

The Carb Tune II is a manometer. It has replaced the hazardous mercury with stainless steel rods. The only problem I've had with the device is that I have to clean the slides.

[tallman]

Its not the money saved.

 

For years I used the "Short one plug" method on my Airhead. Then I bought an oilhead and made up the manometer. It works and it can't be wrong.

 

Electronic tools take he vacuum and convert it to electronic data so it can be compared.

 

A manometer leaves out the steps and lets you compare the data in real time. That is the best part, its so simple it can't screw up. The battery can't be half dead.

 

I used ATF because if the engine accidently drinks it, oil is better than water.

 

I used the manometer on my Airhead and it never idled so well. Now I use the same manometer on my 2012 R1200r and my Versys.

 

The manometer does only one thing, compare one side to the other. no numbers matter just as long as both sides are the same.

 

I confess, I have never used a twinmax or other method.

 

I am a 35 year mechanic.

 

David

 

 

The Carbtune has no electric parts.

It uses air as a fluid.

In the times I've compared a liquid manometer to a CarbTune, on the same bike to compare, the Carbtune worked slightly better,

had no fluid to store or dispose.

YMMV

[dirtrider]

I guess I just can't see how a Carb tune II could be anywhere near as accurate as an H2o manometer.

 

The Carb tune II reads in cm of Hg (mercury) so the resolution has to be much less than using an H2o liquid manometer.

 

Even if you could get the Carb tune II to hold rock steady & have perfect friction free operation it is still only accurate to within .5 cm or so side to side & that is with EVERYTHING rock steady & the bars friction free.

 

.5cm of Hg is 6.8cm (2.7 inches) of H2o. So 1" side to side on an H2o manometer is not even a blip on the Carb tune II. In fact if the Carb tune II bars are dancing at all that would equate to well over 5 inches variation on an H2o manometer.

 

Now I'm not saying the Carb tune II is no good as there is great debate on just how close the cross side TB balance needs to be on the BMW boxers & obviously the Carb tune II is close enough for most balance work. What I am saying is that there is just no way the Carb tune II can be nearly as precise as a simple & cheap water manometer.

 

[OlGeezer]

I don't dispute your point, DR, but water (and) oil) weigh less than mercury (and steel rods), it was my experience that it wasn't as easy to use because the level would jump so dramatically.

[dirtrider]

I don't dispute your point, DR, but water (and) oil) weigh less than mercury (and steel rods), it was my experience that it wasn't as easy to use because the level would jump so dramatically.

 

Afternoon OlGeezer

 

Yes, (unrestricted) H2o can jump around a little but that can be settled right down with use of restrictors or even aquarium valves in the vacuum lines.

 

For years I just used small pieces of cigarette filter in the vacuum lines & the columns were rock steady.

 

Some use ATF or other light oil & for the most part there is enough stiction and fluid viscosity to remain very steady. In fact ATF is even lighter than H2o so is very accurate but that is offset a bit by the higher viscosity slowing reaction & some oil clinging to the tube sides.

 

Even if a little fluctuation in the H2o levels it is still w-a-y more accurate than inches of mercury as 1" of Hg (mercury) is equal to 13.5" of H2o. So 1" of H2o variation isn't even moving an Hg gauge or equivalent steel rod.

 

The down side to using a "U" tube manometer is they only read correctly against a direct opposing vacuum source unless VERY long liquid tubes are used, so only work correctly on 2 cylinder 360° engines like the BMW boxer or other twin cylinder 360 inline engines.

 

20" of vacuum on a conventional Hg vacuum gauge or old carb tune would need an H2o manometer of 272" height if not used as a Delta gauge.

 

[OlGeezer]

DR - can you feel the difference due to the increased accuracy?

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon OlGeezer

 

That is difficult to answer as all I ever use is a "U" tube liquid manometer on the BMW boxers. As a rule I try to keep the side to side delta to under 1" H2o.

 

The thing is, matched fueling side to side is way more important than matched air amount as perfectly matched air flow side to side is basically meaningless without matched fuel.

 

I have worked on some BMW's in the past that actually ran smoother with a little mismatch on side to side air balance either due to uneven fueling or uneven combustion, or both.

 

[OlGeezer]

My question is this: Would it be worthwhile for me to do something different or not? Like I said, I've tried the ATF manometer and I thought it was a PITA due to the large displacement of the fluid level. I've been sync'ing for 165k miles on the RT and now 15k miles on the GSA. I've been happy with the performance (with the exception of initial roll on with the GSA - too abrupt), but that doesn't mean I have an open mind. In fact, it's so open, I can sometimes hear a breeze blowing through.

:o)

[dirtrider]

Afternoon OlGeezer

 

You might try some different things, the GS-A is so easy to get to the TB's that you have the perfect platform to see if you can tell any difference.

 

First, do the TB balance with your Carb Tune, then ride it for a while, then put a liquid manometer on it & see if you can get it closer. Then ride that for a while.

 

Then try the BMW way of bringing the hot curb idle offset (if your bike has any) up into the above-idle TB balance. Then ride it & see if can tell any change.

 

[60av8tor]

I'm well into the process and what do you know, my spark plug socket won't fit . I've ordered one so I can remove a plug to facilitate moving the engine to check valve clearances. Made a mess on my garage floor with the transmission fluid. Maybe next weekend I'll get my RT stitched back together. Still hanging back on the TB synch tool. Maybe I'll order one this week.

 

Have done my own maintenance since my first RT in '08 and just recently read about draining the transmission on the side-stand (maybe in this thread) then holding it upright/slightly to the right. Used it over the weekend for the 6k on the '12 and worked like a champ. Not a drop anywhere but in the drain pan.

[walton66]

well I will definitely try that next time. I tried to make a funnel-like device out of Al foil but it did not work too well.

[dirtrider]

Morning Bwpsg42

 

What works pretty darn good is to use a 1 gallon plastic milk jug or water jug, then cut a full length slice about 1/3 of the diameter (you need to keep a full length corner). Leave a little of the bottom on to retain the "C" shape and give it something to hold it in there. That little upturned end also keeps the oil from flowing out the top end.

 

If done correctly you can use that as a trough to guide ALL the gear oil out and into a drain pan.

 

You need to jam/wedge it up in there under the drain plug hole and terminate it in (or over) the drain pan. You will have to bend it slightly around the R/H center stand leg.

 

loosen the drain plug a little fist so you can unscrew it with your fingers above the plastic trough.

 

If you play around with it a little you will see how to make it work & glide the gear oil out without spilling a drop.

[OlGeezer]

DR - are you referring to something like this?

 

If so, what size do I need? I assume getting the biggest one (500mm/19.7") with red fluid would do the job, but is that necessary?

[dirtrider]

 

 

 

Afternoon OlGeezer

 

Those Dwyer slack tube manometers are REAL EXPENSIVE for what you really need. I had an old magnetic mount Dwyer & had to remove the check ball valving at the top to get it to work properly on the BMW boxer.

 

All you really need is about 6'-8' of 5/16" ID tygon or other brand CLEAR plastic tubing & a piece of wood or even a yard stick to tack the tubing to. Then you will need a couple (5/16") 45° or 90° barbed fittings or adapters to allow your vacuum hoses to attach to the tops of the clear "U" tube. (you don't need anything fancy just vacuum tight connections).

 

You really don't need more than about 1-1/2' tube height if your TB's are fairly close (your 1200 should be). If you are following up after your Carb Tune then 1-1/2' high should be fine.

 

A good compromise is about 2-1/2' to 3' "U" tube height so if working on an engine that is not very close it won't suck the fluid out of the tubes.

 

For liquid, try H2o first & if that dances too much for you then try some restrictors in the vacuum lines or switch to ATF.

 

[David R]

I used clear plastic tube from the hardware store that was the size to fit the nipples on the throttle bodies. About 20 feet. I then used ATF as an indicator.

One time the plastic hose laid on the exhaust and melted through. The bike sucked all the ATF in seconds. No big deal, just a little smoke.

Smaller ID is less jumpy.

Smaller ID uses less fluid.

 

The whole thing did not cost $10.00

 

David

 

 

 

 

[OlGeezer]

DR - I built one of these once. It squirted ATF all over the place!

 

O.K., perhaps I exaggerate. I definitely learned that you have to connect both sides before you start the bike!

[dirtrider]

 

O.K., perhaps I exaggerate. I definitely learned that you have to connect both sides before you start the bike!

 

Afternoon OlGeezer

 

Definitely, a simple "U" tube manometer is basically a delta or differential pressure measuring instrument.

 

Unless both sides are connected to the TB's before starting the engine the first side you hook up is measuring engine vacuum against atmospheric pressure & that would take a "U" tube height of over 20 feet to keep the liquid in the tubes.

 

The very thing that makes a liquid H2o manometer so accurate also makes it difficult to use to measure against atmospheric pressure as height needs to be so darn high.

 

That is why most carb sticks & other mercury filed tubes are used as the tube height using mercury is only about 20". But what you gain in lower easier to use tube length you lose in resolution.

 

As I motioned in a post above, the liquid H2o manometer is only practical for opposed twin cylinder 360° boxers & inline 360°engines due to the direct opposing vacuum pulses.

 

[OlGeezer]

 

As I motioned in a post above, the liquid H2o manometer is only practical for opposed twin cylinder 360° boxers & inline 360°engines due to the direct opposing vacuum pulses.

 

Thankfully, no other engine configuration matters!

 

 

Thanks, DR. Perhaps I will give it another try. You mentioned a specific brand name of plastic tubing. Do I need to order that or is that the ubiquitous plastic tubing available in the hardware stores?

 

 

[dirtrider]

Evening OlGeezer

 

Personally I like Tygon as it is fairly solvent & chemical resistant & doesn't yellow with time but it is harder to find & more expensive.

 

Basically you can use about any CLEAR plastic hose that you can find (most hardware stores & auto parts stores).

 

Personally I like 5/16" (8mm) inside diameter as that allows the fluid to not stick to the inside walls. Smaller diameter (like 3/16") will work, just not as good, especially with thicker viscosity fluids.

 

[walton66]

Finished up today. All of the valves were in spec, all looks good to go.never got around to TB synch. Maybe at 12k or some tech day event.

[MikeT741]

I was looking at the maintenance schedule and have two questions

What is the eccentric clamp that you have to check the torque on?

What is the function test, engine start suppression?

 

[walton66]

good question, I missed the eccentric thing on the check list I have, I'll have to look at it. I assumed that the start thing was starting in gear with the clutch engaged (lever out) or sidestand out. Maybe someone else can provide some feedback on these.