Who is at fault?

[Twisties]

Regardless of the behavior of the squids, no one has a right to hurl 4500 lbs of vehicle at living human beings. Getting brake checked is not a form of violence. Two things about this are curious, one the driver did not contact the police. Why not? Second, if the squids were wrong, why on earth would they post the video? Sounds like a lot of stupidity to go around.

 

The driver initially stopped after the collision (I'm not going to call it an accident because the dipstick on the bike clearly brake-checked him.) When the riders all swarmed him, he feared for his safety (and that of his family) and fled, running over some bikes in the process. I'd do the exact same thing. Sorry, but if it's my family or you, that's a pretty easy decision for me.

 

Why do you believe the driver didn't contact the police? It's entirely possible that his wife was on the phone to them during the pursuit (That's certainly what I would have done.)

 

The only thing that's a question to me is what happened before the video started. If the driver did something to provoke the aphid-brain on the bike to brake-check an SUV, then that changes the equation somewhat. (Though if you're stupid enough to brake check a car when you're on a motorcycle, you are obviously lacking any rational cognitive ability.)

 

Exactly.

[BailyD]

I had one of these types of idiot riders flee from me today at 100+ mph on shoulder of surface street. Typical, the tag was hidden. I will continue to WAGE WAR on these riders when I return to work. If you HIDE YOUR TAG...you will get a $50 summons for your trouble.

 

20 years ONE custom/cruiser/tour has run from me. On average 6 to 7 Sport bikes flee every SEASON. 100% of the Sport bikes that have fled have had their plates OBSTRUCTED!

 

I have ZERO respect for riders like these guys!

Typically these sport bikers have their plates mounted under the rear fender and in front of the rear tire. Besides fleeing when you attempt to pull them over, they enjoy a toll free pass across SF Bay Area bridges.

 

same here with EZ Pass, although when I get them, and we get a LOT of them, their ride is not free. Pay now or pay later. This video has been spreading through my Dept as it probably is in others. Some Officers willing to look the other way at a tag infraction are no so inclined to ignore it. Bad for them and a perfect example of turning the public against motorcyclists.

[Sil]

Now to be fair, I don't think the public was ever with motorcyclists. These guys are thugs, but that is the image most have had of motorcyclists for over 100 years. I am a third generation rider, I am sure my grandfather thought the same way. In spite of that, both of my sons are avid riders.

[60av8tor]

Paralyzed biker was struck intentionally not accidentally.

I don't think that's at all clear. The driver was having his vehicle torn apart and was very reasonably in fear for his life so he attempted to drive away. It's quite possible that in all the confusion he didn't see the individual.

You are right, all depends on the legal double talk in court.

 

+100. You have to be pretty incompetent to not have a solid argument against any talk of intention, willful malice, etc. The guy is surrounded by bikers everywhere, who are stopping him on a public highway. What would a reasonable, prudent person believe was transpiring? Whatever it is, I believe most would suspect it to be bad and/or resulting in grave injury. And yes, I understand I'm double talking a bit with criminal vs. civilian, but I would be VERY surprised if any action against the SUV driver gets any traction - big CAVEAT - unless what is not seen before the video begins drastically changes the story - i.e. why was the mob after the SUV..?

[mickeym3]

Whole deal makes you think more about carrying...current reports would certainly portray a young family out for a innocent drive when all hell broke loose around them. In this case the mob mentality was "stronger" than the panic of the driver and forced him to make a bad decision about getting off the freeway. If he had been carrying then he'd probably made another bad decision, he might have shot one or two but the mob would have probably killed him, possibly harming his wife and child in the process.

 

Also, I've never been a big fan of riding in very large groups since no matter how smart or good a rider you are you may have to pay the consequences of the dumbest and worse rider. The "paralyzed" biker may have been the saint of the entire group but he's the one who will pay the price for the rest of his life, in this case he has only himself to blame.

[Marty Hill]

I'll remember to carry an extra clip from now on. 1+10+10 should be good.

[Matts_12GS]

I'll remember to carry an extra clip from now on. 1+10+10 should be good.

 

I've been thinking that this was a good place for a CCW

[Firenailer]

The problem with that thinking is that this took place in NYC and its practically impossible to get a carry license there. Even if you have a legal handgun permit for NY State you are still barred from carrying in NYC.

 

The Police Commisioner stated that they received over 200 complaints about this group and was aware of what they were doing, had set up road blocks and arrested several before this incident took place.

 

As of now no charges have been filed against the driver and only two riders fromo the group have been identified and arrested.

 

That driver will still probably lose everything when they get him into Civil Court. It's all just such a stupid deal.

[Ponch]

The problem with that thinking is that this took place in NYC and its practically impossible to get a carry license there. Even if you have a legal handgun permit for NY State you are still barred from carrying in NYC.

 

The Police Commisioner stated that they received over 200 complaints about this group and was aware of what they were doing, had set up road blocks and arrested several before this incident took place.

 

As of now no charges have been filed against the driver and only two riders fromo the group have been identified and arrested.

 

That driver will still probably lose everything when they get him into Civil Court. It's all just such a stupid deal.

 

Even more, if you do have a license, it's restricted to to and from the range and hunting, at least it was in Nassau and Suffolk counties. As far as NYC goes, everything is legal unless you get caught. discretion is the better part of valor.

[upflying]

Interesting observation, since firearms are banned in NYC, SUV driver chose to use his vehicle as a defensive weapon. Banning vehicles is next. Or at the very least, taking a course in defensive vehicle weapons training.

[BailyD]

The problem with that thinking is that this took place in NYC and its practically impossible to get a carry license there. Even if you have a legal handgun permit for NY State you are still barred from carrying in NYC.

 

The Police Commisioner stated that they received over 200 complaints about this group and was aware of what they were doing, had set up road blocks and arrested several before this incident took place.

 

 

 

As of now no charges have been filed against the driver and only two riders fromo the group have been identified and arrested.

 

That driver will still probably lose everything when they get him into Civil Court. It's all just such a stupid deal.

 

Even more, if you do have a license, it's restricted to to and from the range and hunting, at least it was in Nassau and Suffolk counties. As far as NYC goes, everything is legal unless you get caught. discretion is the better part of valor.

 

As a police officer in NJ we are still restricted by NY's 7 shot maximum, even though we fall under the Federal Law for lawfully carrying in another State. We just received a notification the other day from the Union telling us not to exceed the limitation, although we CAN still carry there. I have six mags for my off duty!

[Kathy R]

From the Boston Globe, regarding the rider who was run over.....

LINK HERE They say he has broken legs.

 

At the Lawrence house where Mieses lives, a woman who answered the door and identified herself as his sister-in-law said, “He’s going to make it.”

 

Though Mieses is a Massachusetts resident, he has never had a valid Massachusetts driver’s license for a passenger vehicle and has never applied for a motorcycle license, the Registry of Motor Vehicles said.

 

Registry records show that Mieses applied for a learner’s permit in 1999 and 2000, but that he never obtained a full license because he failed to pay fines imposed after he was ticketed for speeding in Lawrence in 1999. His last contact with the Registry was in 2001, when he obtained an identification card, registry records show.

 

Since 1999, he has been ticketed by police 16 times, in Lawrence, Methuen, Roxbury, Andover, and New Hampshire, according to registry records.

 

In June, the Registry notified the National Driver Register that Mieses was a habitual traffic offender whose right to drive in Massachusetts was revoked until 2017, records show.

 

 

Here is another LINK with quotes from that rider's family, where they state that he is paralyzed.

 

 

[Ponch]

The problem with that thinking is that this took place in NYC and its practically impossible to get a carry license there. Even if you have a legal handgun permit for NY State you are still barred from carrying in NYC.

 

The Police Commisioner stated that they received over 200 complaints about this group and was aware of what they were doing, had set up road blocks and arrested several before this incident took place.

 

 

 

As of now no charges have been filed against the driver and only two riders fromo the group have been identified and arrested.

 

That driver will still probably lose everything when they get him into Civil Court. It's all just such a stupid deal.

 

Even more, if you do have a license, it's restricted to to and from the range and hunting, at least it was in Nassau and Suffolk counties. As far as NYC goes, everything is legal unless you get caught. discretion is the better part of valor.

 

As a police officer in NJ we are still restricted by NY's 7 shot maximum, even though we fall under the Federal Law for lawfully carrying in another State. We just received a notification the other day from the Union telling us not to exceed the limitation, although we CAN still carry there. I have six mags for my off duty!

 

There's always the 1911. Easy to be in compliance.

[upflying]

Another link purported shows what the bikers were doing before the SUV incident.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-footage-that-the-nyc-bikers-didnt-want-you-to-see-1435594427

[Sil]

They are thugs and I retract my defense of them. I guess I am almost always likely to land on the side of motorcyclists. It is in my breeding.

[Kathy R]

Mike, after having been taken out on my bike by a madman in a cage you might think I'd always side with riders, but I never saw that this way. What I saw was violence. I related to that violence first.

[Sil]

Kathy,

 

I know you are right and I am not trying to excuse my kneejerk defense, but not only have I been creamed, but my son was hit about a year and a half ago by a woman who made a right turn out of the center lane. She got of the car and assaulted my son and accused him of cutting her off, as he was dealing with the back injury he sustained in the accident.

 

The thing that got her in trouble, he had a rider behind him who was going home in a work truck, the ambulance driver was a rider, and a motorman responded to the call. In the end, my son had to sue her to recover his medical expenses, she refused to report the accident to her insurance company. After a long discussion with his Dad, he did not go for the big payoff.

 

So I think I am a little jaded. But you are correct, I should have recognized the pack mentality being displayed and adjusted my own attitude.

[philbytx]

What a bunch of charmers, simply mindless thugs out looking for trouble!

 

And as for the "poor victim" of the SUV driver.....I truly don't give a crap about him - he got his trouble in spades!

 

 

[SWB]

Another link purported shows what the bikers were doing before the SUV incident.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-footage-that-the-nyc-bikers-didnt-want-you-to-see-1435594427

 

I didn't look at every minute of the video's, but what I saw was most of the riders seemed to be law abiding, not speeding and there weren't a whole lot of stunts. I think the NUMBER of motorcycles may have been intimidating by itself, and while I don't approve of riding the shoulder in stopped traffic or crossing sidewalks, these acts by themselves didn't see particularly egregious violations of the law (e.g. sidewalks were at a gas station, and some just took short cuts, etc.).

 

I think this whole thing was about a bunch of young kids living up to a bad reputation for being stupid, with a few particular riders who probably have a prior criminal record, and need to be off the streets.

 

We have to remember that when we organize a ride, most of us are over 40 yrs old, and the activity is pretty well organized with most of us practicing common sense safety precautions. Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

Scott

[Kathy R]

Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

The fellow in the hospital is 32.

[BailyD]

Another link purported shows what the bikers were doing before the SUV incident.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-footage-that-the-nyc-bikers-didnt-want-you-to-see-1435594427

 

I didn't look at every minute of the video's, but what I saw was most of the riders seemed to be law abiding, not speeding and there weren't a whole lot of stunts. I think the NUMBER of motorcycles may have been intimidating by itself, and while I don't approve of riding the shoulder in stopped traffic or crossing sidewalks, these acts by themselves didn't see particularly egregious violations of the law (e.g. sidewalks were at a gas station, and some just took short cuts, etc.).

 

I think this whole thing was about a bunch of young kids living up to a bad reputation for being stupid, with a few particular riders who probably have a prior criminal record, and need to be off the streets.

 

We have to remember that when we organize a ride, most of us are over 40 yrs old, and the activity is pretty well organized with most of us practicing common sense safety precautions. Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

Scott

 

Did you see the second video labeled "they have done this before" where one rider appears to be punching the window of a car stuck among them?

 

Plus, I'm pretty certain splitting lane, riding on the sidewalks, swerving in and out between cars, riding wheel stands and etc...are NOT law abiding in NY.

 

EVERY time they ride like this there is a very good chance they can accidentally or purposefully come in contact with a car which is then one match stick short of a box of fireworks.

[BailyD]

They have done this sort of thing in my area, but strictly with the dirt bikes/quads. It was becoming a regular thing with the police unable to stop them, until....a local Capt. in an unmarked car managed to get one stopped. The rider assaulted the Officer by repeatedly punching at his head, then ran. They may "appear" to not be acting too badly until you challenge one for riding on the sidewalk, etc. You will have a mob of angry bikers to deal with who will certainly not just sit there and take their tickets.

 

I can say for certainty that if a police Officer would have arrived their mob mentality would have remained intact. If they will not listen to the police, what chance does a citizen have sitting in his car with his family?

 

He will have to leave his fate to their good will.

[MT Wallet]

It's been reported by ABC news this morning that the NYCPD has been in contact with the person doing the video taping and is trying to get the rest of the footage of the action in this incident. Maybe we'll see the rest of the story soon.

[Firenailer]

+ 1 on the .45!

 

This mornings paper said that the PD was aware of the "Hollywood Stuntz" event and were on the lookout. They had made 15 arrests and confiscated 55 bikes from the same group throughout the day before this incident.

[upflying]

Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

The fellow in the hospital is 32.

Chronological age does not necessarily mean he makes decisions like a 32 yr old.

[upflying]

+ 1 on the .45!

 

This mornings paper said that the PD was aware of the "Hollywood Stuntz" event and were on the lookout. They had made 15 arrests and confiscated 55 bikes from the same group throughout the day before this incident.

Hopefully some of the confiscated "bikes" were some of the quads we saw in the "banned" videos. Riding a quad on the street is like yelling at a LEO to "pull me over".

Since these motorcycle anarchists were pissed after being "harassed" by the PoPo earlier, they took their anger out on any submissive target like an expensive SUV.

[mickeym3]

Think I was a little too subtle in (or poorly worded) my earlier post...to all those who think a handgun (and/or extra clip) would have yielded a better outcome for the driver do you think you could have stopped the whole mob before they succeeded in pulling you from the car and killing you, possibly harming your family for good measure? Don't get me wrong, I have a carry permit and I'm not afraid to use it but if it had been me in that situation I hope I would have had the common sense to leave my glock in the glove box. In the face of vastly superior numbers just take your beating and not try a 300 Spartans deal.

[Ponch]

They have done this sort of thing in my area, but strictly with the dirt bikes/quads. It was becoming a regular thing with the police unable to stop them, until....a local Capt. in an unmarked car managed to get one stopped. The rider assaulted the Officer by repeatedly punching at his head, then ran. They may "appear" to not be acting too badly until you challenge one for riding on the sidewalk, etc. You will have a mob of angry bikers to deal with who will certainly not just sit there and take their tickets.

 

I can say for certainty that if a police Officer would have arrived their mob mentality would have remained intact. If they will not listen to the police, what chance does a citizen have sitting in his car with his family?

 

He will have to leave his fate to their good will.

 

Good will? May be in NY. Not here.

[Ponch]

Think I was a little too subtle in (or poorly worded) my earlier post...to all those who think a handgun (and/or extra clip) would have yielded a better outcome for the driver do you think you could have stopped the whole mob before they succeeded in pulling you from the car and killing you, possibly harming your family for good measure? Don't get me wrong, I have a carry permit and I'm not afraid to use it but if it had been me in that situation I hope I would have had the common sense to leave my glock in the glove box. In the face of vastly superior numbers just take your beating and not try a 300 Spartans deal.

 

I bet they would start running when the bullets started hitting their mark. It could afford the guy enough time to get the hell out of there. No one wants to be the next to be shot and killed. I would also submit it is foolish to put your life in someone else's hands. Taking a beating is doing just that.

[John Ranalletta]

The Post is reporting that NYPD officers have been told not to pursue biker gangs due to community-safety concerns. “The department also doesn’t have the manpower to police the rogue riders, who get together for pop-up outings and often use unregistered bikes.” This will not be reassuring to New Yorkers who have just watched one of their own take a beating from these bikers — particularly since Mr. Lien, with his Range Rover, his Columbia University education, and his job working for Credit Suisse, appears on the surface at least to be one of the “insulated” Manhattanites who have largely been sheltered from the city’s criminals since the beginning of the Giuliani administration.

 

While there are certainly sound reasons for a “no-pursuit” policy, and they have been discussed on TTAC in the past, offering a blanket policy exemption to motorcyclists engaged in intimidating or criminal behavior is likely to embolden people who, at least in a few cases, feel that it is completely justified to brutally assault a man in front of his two-year-old daughter. Slate, on the other hand, has taken this opportunity to shift some blame to the victim and argue that this was not a biker gang but rather a bunch of fun-loving stunt riders who should be handled lightly. Regardless of that rather nice distinction, the public is already demanding some effective action from the NYPD — and deciding to let bikers go as a matter of policy is unlikely to impress them.

[Marty Hill]

Think I was a little too subtle in (or poorly worded) my earlier post...to all those who think a handgun (and/or extra clip) would have yielded a better outcome for the driver do you think you could have stopped the whole mob before they succeeded in pulling you from the car and killing you, possibly harming your family for good measure? Don't get me wrong, I have a carry permit and I'm not afraid to use it but if it had been me in that situation I hope I would have had the common sense to leave my glock in the glove box. In the face of vastly superior numbers just take your beating and not try a 300 Spartans deal.

 

I wonder how you know they would have stopped at a beating or that the beating would not be fatal or left you in a wheel chairl? If your think your going to die take a bunch with you.

[BailyD]

They have done this sort of thing in my area, but strictly with the dirt bikes/quads. It was becoming a regular thing with the police unable to stop them, until....a local Capt. in an unmarked car managed to get one stopped. The rider assaulted the Officer by repeatedly punching at his head, then ran. They may "appear" to not be acting too badly until you challenge one for riding on the sidewalk, etc. You will have a mob of angry bikers to deal with who will certainly not just sit there and take their tickets.

 

I can say for certainty that if a police Officer would have arrived their mob mentality would have remained intact. If they will not listen to the police, what chance does a citizen have sitting in his car with his family?

 

He will have to leave his fate to their good will.

 

Good will? May be in NY. Not here.

 

sorry, I should have noted my sarcastic intent.

[BailyD]

The Post is reporting that NYPD officers have been told not to pursue biker gangs due to community-safety concerns. “The department also doesn’t have the manpower to police the rogue riders, who get together for pop-up outings and often use unregistered bikes.” This will not be reassuring to New Yorkers who have just watched one of their own take a beating from these bikers — particularly since Mr. Lien, with his Range Rover, his Columbia University education, and his job working for Credit Suisse, appears on the surface at least to be one of the “insulated” Manhattanites who have largely been sheltered from the city’s criminals since the beginning of the Giuliani administration.

 

While there are certainly sound reasons for a “no-pursuit” policy, and they have been discussed on TTAC in the past, offering a blanket policy exemption to motorcyclists engaged in intimidating or criminal behavior is likely to embolden people who, at least in a few cases, feel that it is completely justified to brutally assault a man in front of his two-year-old daughter. Slate, on the other hand, has taken this opportunity to shift some blame to the victim and argue that this was not a biker gang but rather a bunch of fun-loving stunt riders who should be handled lightly. Regardless of that rather nice distinction, the public is already demanding some effective action from the NYPD — and deciding to let bikers go as a matter of policy is unlikely to impress them.

 

New Jersey has similar State Attorney General guidelines. We are NOT allowed to pursue for the various motor vehicle violations. It has to be very serious and there has to be a reasonable expectation you can catch them and they won't harm others in the process.

 

The moment you try to stop one of these guys your Supervisor calls out "STOP" over the radio. We just watch them ride away, do what they want, into on-coming traffic, running red lights....etc...

[60av8tor]

Think I was a little too subtle in (or poorly worded) my earlier post...to all those who think a handgun (and/or extra clip) would have yielded a better outcome for the driver do you think you could have stopped the whole mob before they succeeded in pulling you from the car and killing you, possibly harming your family for good measure? Don't get me wrong, I have a carry permit and I'm not afraid to use it but if it had been me in that situation I hope I would have had the common sense to leave my glock in the glove box. In the face of vastly superior numbers just take your beating and not try a 300 Spartans deal.

 

I wonder how you know they would have stopped at a beating or that the beating would not be fatal or left you in a wheel chairl? If your think your going to die take a bunch with you.

 

+1000. Hide the gun and hope they don't kill me, or take some shots and hope they don't kill me...mmmmmm.....

[Kathy R]

Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

The fellow in the hospital is 32.

Chronological age does not necessarily mean he makes decisions like a 32 yr old.

 

What it means is he's somehow managed to live to be 32 in spite of the rash of bad choices he's made. Age is not The determining factor. In his case (see his record above) longevity has been an anomaly.

[Bud]

Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

The fellow in the hospital is 32.

Chronological age does not necessarily mean he makes decisions like a 32 yr old.

 

I agree. However, a 32 year old is old enough to be responsible for the decisions he makes.

[BailyD]

Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

The fellow in the hospital is 32.

Chronological age does not necessarily mean he makes decisions like a 32 yr old.

 

I agree. However, a 32 year old is old enough to be responsible for the decisions he makes.

 

 

If we keep raising the age of responsibility (to match the lack of responsibility people accept these days) the only ones responsible will be in a nursing home!

[MacGruber]

Put 100 kids on bikes between the ages of perhaps 16 and 22, and this (video) is what you'll have.

 

The fellow in the hospital is 32.

 

And one of the guys arrested was 42...charges dropped for now.

[philbytx]

Well, they wouldn't have pulled this crap in Texas...

 

However, if they did, the first thing we would have done is call 911, then prepare ourselves to exercise our rights under the Castle Doctrine, as it applieas here in Texas.

 

Which means if anyone tried to enter our vehicle by force, we can defend ourselves. And we both legally can and would have.........

 

 

[OoPEZoO]

If we keep raising the age of responsibility (to match the lack of responsibility people accept these days) the only ones responsible will be in a nursing home!

 

Damn.......my plan all along was to be responsible UNTIL I got to the nursing home, after that all bets are off.

[BailyD]

Just pretend that you forgot what you did when they question you.

 

[tallman]

Obviously it is the schools fault.

[Ponch]

It gets better: http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/undercover-cop-stood-by-as-bikers-beat-dad/

[upflying]

It gets better: http://nypost.com/2013/10/04/undercover-cop-stood-by-as-bikers-beat-dad/

Interesting. But standing by and watching may be the only thing he could do. Exercising his LEO powers to stop the attack would only result in the bikers attacking him.

But waiting 3 days to report the incident is very bad. He should have remained at the scene to immediately report what he saw to responding on-duty leo's.

BTW, I am member of a motorcycle gang known as the Blue Knights.

http://www.blueknights.org/

[philbytx]

Gang?

Nah! IMHO - group should be the operative word in your case!

 

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Got to witness another example of stupid arrogance here in El Dorado Hills this morning. Big group ride of mostly HDs, they posted road guards to let the riders continue if the lights changed. Not LEOs or even funeral escorts, just joe blow on his bike. One in the center of the intersection for traffic from the left and one on the right side on the limit line.

Fortunately, I was crossing their ride and, they completed the intersection prior to a light change. Coming from their right, I was going to block the road guard, on my side of the intersection, once I got a green. Didn't want to challenge the intelligence of the group but, more than happy to make a moron experience some turn about.

[Francis]

As you all have probably read and seen on TV, this past weekend here in New York City we had a SUV with young husband, wife and baby on the West Side Drive surrounded by a pack of motorcyclists. The family called 911 and and no police cars came to their rescue. The bikes surrounding the couple slowed so that the car was stopped in the middle of the highway. A biker ran to the car and got the driver door opened. When this occurred the husband stepped on the gas, ran over some bikes, hit a biker and took off up the highway to get away. A the end of the West Side Dive he exited onto city streets and was caught by the bikers in stopped traffic. Car windows were smashed, he was dragged from his car and beaten by the bikers. (Note: the bikers are usually from the Bronx and Queens, racially diverse, 600CC pocket rockets and not the Hells Angels you might expect. They are from local groups, clubs, gamgs).

 

My question to myself and to our community is...if you were the driver of that vehicle, your wife and child inside, and no police on the scene...what would you have done when your SUV was forced to stop, surrounded by 150 bikers and one of them got off his bike, ran over and opened your door?

 

 

[Skywagon]

I saw the video on TV News. It's really hard to know what you would do until you are in that situation. The only way to know for sure is training or having thought about it in advance.

 

It looks like from the video after they tried to get in his car, he just goosed it and ran over a biker or two. That is the most likely outcome. Not sure what led up to the incident that caused them to approach his door. When they did get him pulled over and started beating his car with helmets, the news cut it off. I did not see him get pulled out of the car but they did describe it.

 

I would have headed towards the freeway, ran lights carefully, and headed for a LEO station while talking to 911 if conditions allowed.

 

If they got me pulled over, before I would have been forcefully taken out of the car, I would have (personal and predefined for me) used the 60 rounds of 45 available to me in the car. At that point I have no idea what they are going to do to wife and kids so now a time to defend in a life threatening situation. Last choice, but a choice I would make.

I am not promoting guns or firearms, but that is the 2nd most likely scenario with me

[upflying]

Gloria Allred is now "defending" Edwin Mieses according to the LA Times headline.

With her joining the fracas, this is sure to become a media circus for some time to come. Not sure why she defending Mieses, he is not charged with any crime. Perhaps it should read she is representing Mieses as an enventual plaintiff.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-allred-motorcyclist-ny-chase-20131004,0,5925804.story

[John in VA]

Gang?

Nah! IMHO - group should be the operative word in your case!

 

Gang schmang -- Here's a REAL gang.