Dealer litmus test

[St0nkingByte]

Saturday I get to find out what my BMW dealer is made of. This morning one of the tail lights on my new RT burned out. Saturday morning I happen to have an appointment for my 600 mile service (finally, darn rain!)

 

In my experience a burned out bulb is a great way to find out what a dealer's service department and probably the entire dealership is really like. A really good dealer, like my Saturn dealer, will replace it without even asking you and won't charge for it. It'll be interesting to see what my dealer will do and yes it will have a huge impact on whether or not I use them for future service.

[Gleno]

A Saturn is a matter of popping the trunk and twisting a bulb socket. Is your RT that easy?? A Saturn tailite/brakelite bulb is less than a dollar. Is your RT?? Are you going to inform them of the bulb situation up front?? Or is this just a trap set...bait, if you will, to see if they're competent or not??

 

In the auto industry, I don't recall ever charging someone to change a bulb. However, there is indeed a labor time in the book for it (and some are honestly not that easy), and of course, the cost of bulbs (how many after 25 years???) does add up.

 

[/devils advocate]

[Tasker]

Or is this just a trap set...bait, if you will, to see if they're competent or not??

 

I agree. If this is your M/O, then forget it.

 

While I agree that they should replace your bulb with no charge, considering the "youth" of your RT, the right thing is to let them know.

 

I can't imagine that they won't take care of you properly and, it may not even be the bulb.

[St0nkingByte]

Oh of course I will tell them its burnt out, I do need it replaced after all.

 

I'm trying not to think about the paranoid 'it might not be the bulb' thoughts. I once had a Ford that burned out bulbs far too often and before I could track down why it was doing that the alternator caught on fire.

[Mike_F]

and yes it will have a huge impact on whether or not I use them for future service.

 

Where else would you go, South Sound? Both Ride West and South Sound are owned by the same person. I suppose you could go to an Indy, but I don't think you could get the same level of service. Now, you could do the service yourself after the 600, but you would only have yourself to blame for not renewing the tail light.

I do know that both dealerships would almost certainly find the problem without being told. They both are very thorough with their safety inspection. They are also both top notch facilities, and I wouldn't hesitate to take my machine to either if I didn't do all my own work.

That said, YMMV

 

Mike

[jimswms]

I think his point is more about finding out just how attentive the dealer is to something as simple as a burnt bulb. If they don't notice that, as they should, what else have they missed?

 

And, if you doubt that they are doing a complete, thorough job, he can opt to not use them again. I think it's a very fair scenario/test. Flame suit on.

[SkidMark]

I think his point is more about finding out just how attentive the dealer is to something as simple as a burnt bulb. If they don't notice that, as they should, what else have they missed?

 

And, if you doubt that they are doing a complete, thorough job, he can opt to not use them again. I think it's a very fair scenario/test. Flame suit on.

 

I agree, I see nothing wrong with verifying ther thourghness....put my flame suit one too

[David]

I think his point is more about finding out just how attentive the dealer is to something as simple as a burnt bulb. If they don't notice that, as they should, what else have they missed?

 

I think that's a fair test--to see if they notice it.

 

To expect them to replace it for free is, in my opinion, a silly, limiting, short-sighted approach.

[YesMan]

I think the real question is..

 

how many bmw service technicians will it take to change it?

 

sorry, back to my corner...

[lexxol]

To expect them to replace it for free is, in my opinion, a silly, limiting, short-sighted approach.

Imho. It's silly not to expect them to replace the blub in the first 600 miles. In all fairness I don't see anything short sighted about it. I think any dealer would happily replace it in the first 600 miles for free. I don't expect them to service my bike for nothing, however I do expect fairness.

[David]

To expect them to replace it for free is, in my opinion, a silly, limiting, short-sighted approach.

Imho. It's silly not to expect them to replace the blub in the first 600 miles. In all fairness I don't see anything short sighted about it. I think any dealer would happily replace it in the first 600 miles for free. I don't expect them to service my bike for nothing, however I do expect fairness.

 

You are serious, eh? Wow. What folly.

 

Here he's bought a $16,000 motorcycle, loves it, loves the community, can't wait to ride it every day. And now he's going to abandon all of it because of a damn taillight that technically they do NOT have to replace for free?

 

I too would maybe expect and certainly appreciate it, and I know my dealer wouldn't charge me, but to draw lines in the sand like that is immature.

[St0nkingByte]

Gee you guys read alot into stuff Actually my initial post was slightly flippant, I just thought it's a neat little way to get a feel for how they treat you because I've had the same situation happen at two other dealers. Once with my Toyota when it was new and once with my Saturn when it was in for its 30k service. The Saturn guys impressed me because it was a couple of those third brake lights up in the headliner in the rear of the car, but hey maybe that is an easy job.

 

If the bulb costs $50 and takes significant time to replace I wouldn't expect it to be done for free. In that case I'd buy the bulb and do it myself, however I'd imagine its not that expensive and not that complicated. I also I don't think its unusual when you buy new and pay the bucks for dealer service to expect to be taken care of to a certain extent. That's part of the point of buying new right? So you don't have to sweat the small stuff at least for a little while.

Now if I can just resist the urge to buy accessories when I'm there. I really want the spiffy absurdely expensive BMW tank bag

[lexxol]

Yes David, they don't have to replace it. It is a consumable like tires, brake pads etc. The price of the bike has nothing to do with it. However I don't think it is to much to ask with in 600 miles. Be it a light bulb or a brake pad. As for abandoning the BMW Cummunity, yes that would be foolish.

[STUFF2C]

My only question is, a saturn? what were you thinkin?

[lexxol]

I also I don't think its unusual when you buy new and pay the bucks for dealer service to expect to be taken care of to a certain extent.

 

I agree. It is nice when the door swings both ways.

Good luck and enjoy your RT. I enjoy mine.

[lexxol]

[James Clark]

I think the real question is..

 

how many bmw service technicians will it take to change it?

 

sorry, back to my corner...

 

 

One to hold the bulb while the world revolves around him?

[jackflash]

I'm glad my life isn't filled with complications like this.

[KDeline]

I would not tell them. Since it is part of the inspection, I would just like to see if they catch it.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Part of any inspection at a BMW dealer is supposed to include a function check of all the safety related items. It's right there on the check list. I wouldn't even tell them in advance. It will make a decent check on their attention to detail. As to getting the bulb, and the labor to replace it for free, try going into a restaurant and ordering a meal but asking the waiter to deduct the chef's salary as you only want to pay for the food. That, sir, is bullshit.

[lexxol]

Ed I don't think we are talking about the same thing. Have a nice lunch anyway.

[velomoto]

IMHO if the labor isn't time consuming, a good dealer will do this installation for free, other's won't. You may be setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

I've had Toyota and Volvo dealers who would replace simple items (tail lights, wiper blades, etc) for free. My Honda dealer (where I purchased the van) charged me a half-hour of labor for changing a tail light for my minivan. When the Honda needed replacing, I weighed this into my decision and ended up with a Toyota.

 

The dealership needs to stay in business and you have a budget for your household. It's benificial if both you and the dealership are happy - if you feel the replacement should be done for free, talk to the service manager. They may accomodate you, and if not you can learn how to change the bulbs, accept the expense, or take your biz elsewhere.

 

Cheers,

Greg

[mrmaico]

I assume the RT dash is going to indicate that you have a light out like my GS does so I don't see how they could NOT notice it?

 

Barry

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Paul, what then, are we talking about.

 

Bike goes into the dealer for the 600 mile service.

Owner, knowingly or not, has a tail light bulb burnt out.

Hopefully the dealer finds this on his safety inspection.

 

Should the replacement be for free? Why? The dealer didn't get the bulb for free, the mechanic didn't get his tools for free nor is his time free.

 

Assuming he caught this on his safety inspection/post service check ride, he would have to return the bike to his service area, remove the seat, remove the bulb, get a new bulb from parts, replace the bulb, and replace the seat and take the bike back out of the service area. All of which time could have been spent on his next job. If I were woring at a dealer who paid the mechanics out of a flat rate book you can be damn sure the labor would appear on my work ticket.

 

If the dealer chooses to "goodwill" the charge, so be it but, I want to get paid.

[camfarm]

At 6000 miles, I'd expect to pay for consumables/non-warranty stuff.

 

At 600, I'd expect the selling dealer to comp it as a part of the original sale/warranty/goodwill/customer satisfaction. And I'd expect they would tell me they ruled out a short circuit, bad batch of bulbs, other causes.

 

You guys who are willing to pay ( or charge) for such work - what do you do for a living and where do you shop?

[Paul Mihalka]

The time we spend on this thread would have paid for many light bulbs

[lexxol]

Paul, what then, are we talking about.

 

Bike goes into the dealer for the 600 mile service.

Owner, knowingly or not, has a tail light bulb burnt out.

Hopefully the dealer finds this on his safety inspection.

 

Should the replacement be for free? Why? The dealer didn't get the bulb for free, the mechanic didn't get his tools for free nor is his time free.

 

Assuming he caught this on his safety inspection/post service check ride, he would have to return the bike to his service area, remove the seat, remove the bulb, get a new bulb from parts, replace the bulb, and replace the seat and take the bike back out of the service area. All of which time could have been spent on his next job. If I were woring at a dealer who paid the mechanics out of a flat rate book you can be damn sure the labor would appear on my work ticket.

 

If the dealer chooses to "goodwill" the charge, so be it but, I want to get paid.

 

Ed,

 

I'm a little slow at times and didn't understand your analogy.

 

When customers purchase a new bike there is a reasonable expectation the selling dealer will stand behind the product.

The dealer made a profit when the bike was purchased. In the first 600 miles it is reasonable to expect no problems with your new bike. If there is a problem the dealer should fix it either on warrenty or good will. We are assuming the bulb is out, however it could be a poor connection from the factory in either case it should be fixed at no cost to the owner. It would be short sighted of the dealer not to. ( with the exception of customer abuse )This is the time you win or loose customers for future sales. If the mechanic is on flat rate, ( most are not ) then it would be billed in house. After 600 miles I wouldn't expect anything other than warranty. I do have some experiance in the service area. I was involved with a very successful marina. If we rigged your boat and you had any problems in 20 hours we fixed for free period. We built our customer base on customer satisfaction. We also made money and everyone was happy. I don't understand the mind set that the customer always pays and the dealer has no obligation what so ever to try to satisfy the customer. The dealer has two things to sell, bikes and service. The cost of the bulb and the $15.00 or so dollars he pays his mechanic are very small compared to what he may lose in the future.

[St0nkingByte]

In retrospect I shouldn't have even posted this. Bulbs are, of course, simply taken care of. It's not even a question, why did I even think about it? They even kindly answered every single question I had, I'd made a list of them. They were polite, understanding and took every concern, no matter how silly, very seriously. You're in a different strata when you're there, the customer service is absolutely perfect, I can't recommend them enough.

 

The trip home was great too, finally past the first service and I can stop staring at the darn tach and just ride. I really enjoy the feel of the engine above 4k its really coming to life and it's a blast, couldn't be happier with the bike. Coincidentally, when I got home last night I had the BMW paper survey waiting for me in the mail.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Paul,

I do understand the customer satisfaction angle. I have spent time on both sides of the fence as well. I don't even maintain that a dealer shouldn't goodwill something like this, if I may be allowed to create a verb. Just that I think it unwarrented for a customer to expect it, or base his decision on future use of that dealer on whether or not he gets the freebie. The fact remains that the service department is a profit center, just like sales and parts. Start giving away 1/4 hours and parts and you are on a business plan that is headed straight for the crapper.

 

One of the things that impressed the heck out of me at Brown's, and I haven't dealt with them since they were in the old place, was that when I brought my bike in there for a service, it came back out of the service department washed and dried, no matter the condition it was in when it got there. Now I am certain the cost of that was built into what I payed, somewhere, somehow. It never appeared on the service ticket. Is it reasonable to expect that at every dealership? No. Did it make Brown's my choice when in the LA area? Yes.

 

Certainly there is room for this kind of thing. I still maintain that it is not reasonable to effectivley demand it by holding the dealer ransom, in re future business, to what essentially is his good will.

[lexxol]

Ed,

 

Although we disagree on this issue I always find your opinions interesting. I read your posts because of your knowledge of bikes and out spoken opinions. You saved my butt yesterday on my way home from the Cedar key meet. I was on the way home with a aching shoulders and hands, I remembered you talking about the Master Yoda postion. I tried the Master Yoda position, it worked great. ( may try it with out the bar backs) Thanks for sharing that with us.

Not trying to steal this thread, seemed like a good time to thank someone for their help.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

OK, Paul and thanks.

 

I guess we'll just agree to disagree. 'sides, my panhead is older than yours. How it got titled in Florida as a '53 with a motor number that starts with '48, I don't pretend to understand.

 

Gimmee a year or so to get it running again and I'll meet you somewhere half way between us. I figure neither of us could make it much past Arcadia without a full support crew.

[sjn7708]

at some point u have to develop a little trust in your dealer. my mechanic delivers my motorcycles to my house 150 miles away at no charge because they know it is hard for me to get out of town and down to the dealer. One time he actually did a little service work right at the house, again at no extra charge. I started tipping him generously after the third or fourth trip because he deserved it. So if he happens to miss something along the way, we've developed enough of a relationship to know that it wasnt on purpose. And if he decides to charge me for a certain service, I trust that its a service that should be charged for. Maybe I'm naieve, but I think my dealer is trying to provide the best service and not just make the most money and do the least work