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Daddoz777

R1150RT Cranks But No Spark

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Daddoz777

Ok, help here please. My '02 R1150RT quit cold-turkey on me yesterday; instant, like someone flipped a switch. Had to trailer it home.

 

Starter cranks but no-go. Dash lights and devices all working including the oil temp and fuel display. The tach is static when cranking (no erratic jumping around). Power to the coil but no spark at the plugs (yes, the coil power wire is attached)! Poly belt is good. All hoses and harnesses are attached and intact both inside and outside the fuel tank.

 

I tried swapping the motronic and horn relays. All fuses are good. Kill switch is in the run position and I have gas in the tank. HES? I have the plastic cover off the alternator but haven't removed the crank pulley yet.

 

Help, help, help!

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Matts_12GS

Your bike seems to have very low miles for an HES to go, and I don't really recall them being an issue with the 1150s.

 

I know it's had some issues recently, but could you have lost a ground or broken a wire someplace? I've only had 1100s or 1200s so I'm not that versed in the differences, but have to think this is caused by prior maintenance instead of a component failure.

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Daddoz777

Thanks, M! That is also the impression I got that the HES is not likely the problem. Very good advice about a possible relationship to maintenance activities. This type of advice really helps and gives me more things to check.

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dirtrider

Afternoon Daddoz777

 

If you have access to the ign coil see if the power wire to the coil has power TO IT with the key on.

 

If yes then your problem is more than likely on the Motronic end of it.

 

Is the side stand UP? If not then it won't have spark while cranking.

 

Is fuse #5 good (both visually check it & test BOTH ends for power with key on).

 

If all above good then you will need to go after it with a voltmeter or test light to see if you have Battery & ign switch power to the Motronic, fuel injectors, etc.

 

Lots of possibilities from a bad HES (unlikely though), to a bad side stand switch, to a broken wire in the wire harness near the steering neck, (usually red or green), or a bad ground connection, or a small wire loose/broken at the battery, or even a bad fueling computer, or ?????.

 

SO check your fuses, check your side stand, maybe shake the wire harness hear the steering neck first zip tie.

 

If nothing obvious then you need to go looking for what isn't getting power that should have.

 

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Daddoz777

Thanks, dirt. Coil has power with key on. Side stand is up. I checked #5 (all fuses) for continuity but not power (will do). I'll start tracing wires for breaks, etc. I really appreciate your input. db

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Boffin
Side stand is up.
- But is the switch working? A better test is to disconnect the switch from the harness and use a paper-clip to jumper it out.

 

Andy

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Daddoz777

Checked all the fuses and they all have power at both sides when the key is on. Jumpered the side-stand switch (finally found the disconnect up by the seat). Didn't seem to make any difference. Can you tell by this image of the HES if the wiring is bad or how do you tell? http://i1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/daddoz777/_DSC0053_zps516c7d61.jpg

Edited by Daddoz777

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Daddoz777

Ok, poking around on the forums has answered most of my HES questions:

 

1) A few have experienced HES failures on their 1150's but it seems to be quite rare.

 

2) You have to look at the insulation on the actual wires for degradation and cracking. The condition of the loom sheath doesn't really tell the story.

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AndyS

Hi Daddoz. My 2003 twin spark had a dead HES (not the lead) although is still demonstrated the typical HES failure symptoms of loopy tacho and RID.

BUT that doesn't mean a dead HES has to exhibit those traits.

make up a little test box as per the attached guide and that may help confirm an HES issue.

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/oilhead_hall_sensors.pdf

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Daddoz777

Tested the HES and it is good! At least I've positively ruled out that, which I'm really glad for. I used the method described here (thank you, Dana Hager), but I didn't have a 12v LED so I used a 40A automotive relay instead (do this at your own risk - I'm only telling you what I did), using trigger terminals 86 & 85. When the HES sensor is unimpeded, you can hear the circuit in the relay close. But when you block the path between the magnet and the sensors you can hear the circuit open, simulating the effect of the notched ring behind the crank pulley.

 

I also ruled out the side stand switch by measuring resistance between the ground and the stand "up" and "down" terminals. The switch seems fine.

 

I've run out of time for today but tomorrow I will inspect and test the coil (credit again to Dana Hager), retest spark at the plugs, and then a full inspection of the fuel pump hoses, filter, etc. Then if time permits I'll check the clutch switch and fuel pump relay.

 

Thanks again for all your help. I wanna get this thing back on the road! :Cool:

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roger 04 rt

I doubt it will be a problem with your Motronic but I have a single-spark unit available if you end up needing one.

 

If someone you know has a GS-911, you could connect it, collect what's called a CSV file and we could see what's happening. Beiow is a problem where the bike would die out of the blue, take a look at the log.

RB

 

 

 

vOPgJ6u.jpg

 

The CSV logs from the GS-911 can be very useful because you have a snapshot every 3/4 second.

 

The GS-911 keeps reporting for a long while after the motor stopped. Since the Motronic can't report data if it loses power, this means that sidestand, clutch, neutral and kill switches (all the interlocks) are all functioning at the moment it dies.

 

The lambda sensor voltage, although it goes low, doesn't look like fuel cutoff. If you follow the fuel pump status, the Motronic is even keeping it on for a while after the motor stops.

 

The RPM drops from 3100 to 1000 to 400 in two samples or about 3/4 second. Seems like the Motronic has lost its RPM signal.

 

You can see the spark advance drop from 16 degrees to 0.7 from one sample to the next. I think this suggests something wrong with the HES or its wiring to the Motronic.

 

 

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Daddoz777

After tearing the bike to the ground (well, not quite) and testing everything I could all I can say is I put it back together and now it runs. I'm relieved but also a bit nervous because I still don't know exactly what the problem was. All I can think is somewhere along the way one of the connectors had come loose and my disassembly and reassembly set something right.

 

Two days ago we rode out highway 504 to Mt. St. Helens and she purred along without a single hiccup (over 200 miles). I imagine this must rank among the most boring "I fixed it" moments in BST history (yawn)!!!

 

The up-side is I really learned a lot, and also know my coil, HES, fuel pump & lines, stand switch, etc. are all good. Thanks, again and again for all your help! The boring end...

 

Dan

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roger 04 rt

Bob, All's well that ends well ... If the problem comes back, do consider a GS-911, it would allow you to capture the moment of failure and identify the cause, likely without much guess-work.

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