SOS!!! ... _ _ _ ... Driveline Instillation SOS!! ... _ _ _ ...

January 10, 2006

Hey guys...

I'm probably going to catch a lot of flack about this but I need your help nevertheless...

Yes, I'm STILL putting my bike back together and have spent the last 3 days trying to get the driveline and swingarm back in properly.

First installed the driveling on the transmission and installed the swingarm as recommended...then when trying to install the final drive just COULD NOT get the splines to mate!! So, tried putting the final drive back on with the driveline attached to it inside the swingarm and tried to mate it to the transmission that way. Again, NO DICE.

At first comdedy ensued as my wife and I tried to get things lined up and pushed in, and then frustration set in.

Am trying to get this thing ready for DVD but am running out of time fast.

Any help appreciated...

Beer and Pizza for anybody who comes over (Booze and Broads by special request )

January 10, 2006

Ok, put the swingarm back on with the drive shaft attached to the rear of the transmission. Next, take a small towel and scrunch it up under the rear U-joint to lift the driveshaft until it's rear spline is centered in the rear swingarm opening. Make sure you leave part of the towel hanging out of the opening so you can remove it after you mate the final drive to the drive shaft. Reinstall the final drive and remove the towel.

It is still going be a vocabulary bonanza, but with proper elevation of the drive shaft, and a couple of tries, it will eventually line up and mate with the final drive.

Good luck.

January 10, 2006

That's a great idea...what I forgot to mention though is that I also cannot get the driveline deteched from the final drive again. That sucker is really, really mated well to the final drive splines!

January 10, 2006

A large screwdriver works very well to lever the rear section off the final drive.

The rag trick in the swingarm works well too. I've heard of other tricks like holding the front section of the driveshaft up with ice cubes. Once you have it mated, the ice just melts.

Do you have the drive shaft split? The larger diameter gets attached to the tranny output shaft and then you install the swingarm. Next you prop the front half of the drive shaft up with the rag. The rear section of the driveshaft stays mounted on the final drive. All you have to do is align the splines where the two pieces of drive shaft mate. Why are you trying to remove the rear U-joint from the final drive again??????

Mick (You can deliver the booze and broads at DVD XI)

January 10, 2006

Why are you trying to remove the rear U-joint from the final drive again??????

Sorry for the confusion...not trying to do that!

Let me be more clear...tried to put the thing back together using the traditional method of mating the driveline to the tranny, then installing the swingarm and then mating the final drive.

Unfortunately could not get the final to mate to the drive line...took the whole thing apart just to check. Still had a hard time getting the driveline to mate to final drive even out of the assembly. Finally did get it mated but now I can't get it apart. Sooo have been trying to put it together the other way. i. e. final drive attached to swingarm with driveshaft inside and trying to mate it to the tranny that way...and that's not working either.

Jeezzz that's still clear as mud isn't it?

Hope it helps anyway

Thanks again!

January 10, 2006

It sounds like you are treating the drive shaft as a single piece. It isn't, it is two pieces.

Attach the front piece to the tranny. Tap with rubber mallet to put in place, their is a distinct latched sound/feel when this occurs.

Attach the rear piece to the final drive. Tap with rubber mallet to put in place.

Install swingarm over front piece of driveshaft making sure rubber boot pushes onto tranny to seal out the dirt.

Use a rag to support front half of drive shaft inside swingarm such that it is centered in opening. Leave a bit of the rag hanging out so you can remove it.

Join the rear half of driveshaft (while still attached to final drive) with the front half (while still in the swingarm).

Remove rag!!!!!

Done.

Stan

January 10, 2006

Huh, it sounds a little like the trouble I had when doing my final drive and then my clutch. I wish I was there to help. If you try hooking up your swing-arm brace (the little arm that attaches to the bottom of your final drive) first, then disconnect it. I found it helpful to do two things. First, STEP AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE!!

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Seriously now, take a deep breath and use the small towel to prop up the drive-shaft so you align the inner and outer splines. Make sure that you have the corner of the towel sticking out of the swing-arm housing so you can remove it. I roll the towel to keep it in a compact package.

Next, put the two spline sections together and here's the trick I found: rotate the part in your hands, whatever that part is, to allow those splines to mate.

I was having to most frustrating time until I slowly rotated a little left and right until things mated.

Good luck and please post your success!

January 10, 2006

It sounds like you are treating the drive shaft as a single piece. It isn't, it is two pieces

Ok..that sounds promising!! Just how do you get those two pieces apart?

January 10, 2006

Mick (You can deliver the booze and broads at DVD XI)

Now I have to get a sidecar too...

Anybody know how to mount one of those?

January 10, 2006

They should have come apart when you took the final drive off. They are just splined togeather.

The drive shaft has 3 sets of splines, and two uninversal joints. When seperated each half will have one universal joint with a set of splines at each end.

Stan

January 10, 2006

Stan...

I just attached a schematic diagram of the drive shaft...

Are you saying the main shaft #1 in the picture comes apart?

January 10, 2006

Yes

Stan

January 10, 2006

What shop manual are you using?

Stan

January 10, 2006

Haynes

January 10, 2006

I guess I still have to ask the question then...how do you get those to halves apart?

January 10, 2006

Look at picture 11.18a on page 5-18 in section 11 Final Drive housing, removal, inspection and installation.

Stan

January 10, 2006

Ok..will do when I get home...

Thanks1

January 10, 2006

I guess I still have to ask the question then...how do you get those to halves apart?

They should just slide apart, no effort required. It's possible that they didn't have enough grease on them from the factory and are stuck (or perhaps you banged on them while inserting the whole drive shaft assembly into the swingarm). I would think that a light tap or two with a rubber mallet would separate them.

Stan

January 10, 2006

or perhaps you banged on them while inserting the whole drive shaft assembly into the swingarm

ME!?!?!

January 10, 2006

Picture of the splines in the middle of the driveshaft. Looking at the right side, is there a circlip or something inside?

January 10, 2006

Next diagram on the fiche:

January 10, 2006

Next diagram on the fiche:

Doh!

Ok...BEAUTIFUL....Thanks Much!!

January 10, 2006

David

I don't believe so. I've had two driveshafts apart in the last 6 months (aren't spline lubes fun) and don't recall seeing one.

Stan

January 10, 2006

Next diagram on the fiche:

Now that's funny!!!!

By the way, notice the orientation on the two universals. That's the way you want to put the driveshaft back together. This is a little tricky since you can't see the the end by the tranny very well. I marked mine with a Sharpie marker before I put the swingarm on. Made it easy.

It's not critical, but it is a good thing to do.

Stan

January 10, 2006

By the way, notice the orientation on the two universals. That's the way you want to put the drive shaft back together.

[slight hijack]

You're speaking of course of phasing of the drive shaft. I've often wondered how critical that is? For example if you are off 1 or 2 splines or fully 90° out of phase? What are the likely ramifications?

[/slight hijack]

January 10, 2006

By the way, notice the orientation on the two universals. That's the way you want to put the drive shaft back together.
[slight hijack]
You're speaking of course of phasing of the drive shaft. I've often wondered how critical that is? For example if you are off 1 or 2 splines or fully 90° out of phase? What are the likely ramifications?

[/slight hijack]

If the universal joints do not line up, the drive line actually speeds up slightly and slows down at each end. This speed offsets itself when the ujoints line up. The longer the shaft or more angle at the ujoint or more RPM, the more pronounced the speed difference becomes. The overall effect is rapid wear of the ujoints and splines and vibration.

If you did this on a rear wheel drive car, you would feel the vibration immediately! You may not notice as much on a bike because there is more vibration to start with, but the parts will wear much more quickly.

Your best bet is to pay attention when assembling any driveshaft. Line up the ujoints!

January 10, 2006

You're speaking of course of phasing of the drive shaft. I've often wondered how critical that is?

Yeah, me too!

What I do know is that with a conventional U-Joint running at an angle the output side speeds up and slows down (pulsates) as it turns at 2x rpm. A second conventional U-Joint properly phased and at the same angle but opposite direction will take this pulsation as an input and return it to a constant speed of rotation.

But, our BMW's don't have equal angles on both U-joints so this doesn't fully work. Plus we have a rubber coupling in the drive shaft and that should help smooth this out.

I'm not sure that the factory bothers to phase at all. They don't mention it in their service manual. But, they assume that professional wrenches are reading it! Clearly not true in my case.

So how critical? Any professional mechanical engineers out there want to take a stab at this?

Based on the number of reported problem fixes where the phasing of the U-Joints was blamed, I'd have to guess not very critical.

Stan

January 10, 2006

The larger diameter gets attached to the tranny output shaft and then you install the swingarm. Next you prop the front half of the drive shaft up with the rag. The rear section of the driveshaft stays mounted on the final drive. All you have to do is align the splines where the two pieces of drive shaft mate.

WOW,

I thought I made that clear enough that the driveshaft is two pieces.

January 11, 2006

WOW,
I thought I made that clear enough that the driveshaft is two pieces.

Bro you probably did!! Comprehension reading ability problem have I appaerntly?

Thanks again!!!!

Cameron

January 11, 2006

I thought I made that clear enough that the driveshaft is two pieces.

You did, but it looked like bmweerman breezed right on by it so I thought I would beat him about the head until he saw the light.....

Stan

January 11, 2006

Thanks Stan. I didn't know he was hard of hearing.

Mick

January 11, 2006

Do you have the drive shaft split?

Oh you mean I was supposed to read THAT part!!

BTW...if you guys are trying to get under my skin just remember I teach Court/Probation High School...you're going to have to do a lot better than that

And if you're done beating me about the head now here is the result of your help

And here are my secret weapons

And now while I have your attention...

Should there be oil in the airbox? I know...here we go again!

Your Hard of Hearing Friend

BM

January 11, 2006

Cool, a big hammer and a lady ready to hit you with it........

You're on the homeward stretch now!!!

------------------------------------

Oil in the airbox is common, but not desirable. There is a drain on the bottom left side. Drain out as much as will come out easily and don't worry about it.

Stan

January 11, 2006

Cool, a big hammer and a lady ready to hit you with it........

. . . and I was SO looking forward to finally meeting the "happy newlyweds"!

Did it look anything like this?

January 11, 2006

Should there be oil in the airbox?

A little bit (couple of onces) is not that unusual. That is why there is a drain plug. Suspended micro-droplets of oil travel up the crankcase vent hose and collect at the bottom of the airbox. If there is a lot in the airbox it can be a result of chronic overfilling of the bike with oil.

January 11, 2006

Did it look anything like this?

Well actully it looked more like........

Oh never mind

CU in a couple of days

Cameron

January 11, 2006

Next diagram on the fiche:

Is there a circlip or something on the inside?

Despite what Stan said, YES THERE IS. It's captured inside the inner splines. It might be referred to as a snap ring...see items 2-3 on the fiche. This is why there is a small bit of tension when you try to separate the sections and also why you need to tap them together.

January 11, 2006

Actually Steve,

There are no c-clips inside our driveshafts. Numbers 2&3 in the diagram are only at the ends of the shaft. One ensures the front half is retained on the transmission output shaft and the other ensures the rear section is retained on the final drive.

Inside the two halves of the driveshaft there is nothing to prevent the sliding in/out of the front/rear section. This is the joint that moves when the rear suspension goes up and down.

Mick

January 11, 2006

This is the joint that moves when the rear suspension goes up and down.

Well, if that's true then I am in trouble because my drive shaft has NO slide in it at all...that sucker might as well be welded together.

January 11, 2006

Well, if that's true then I am in trouble

Well yes. It should virtually fall apart on its own. I'd get out the heat gun or torch and try heat soaking the outer / front part to see if you can get them to separate.

January 11, 2006

Didn't you ever get it apart into two pieces?

Stan

January 11, 2006

No...I managed to get it together the other way...everything seems to be sliding around just fine...my guess is that the driveline is sliding around on the transmission output shaft as that is the only place that is even remotely free sliding!

Please don't tell me I have to take it apart again?!

January 11, 2006

my guess is that the driveline is sliding around on the transmission output shaft as that is the only place that is even remotely free sliding

It would worry me that it isn't right if it were my bike.

The engineers at BMW designed it to have the driveshaft locked in place at the tranny and locked into place at the final drive. Any motion is expected to occur at the center splines which are two or three times as long.

It's unclear (to me as a reader) just how much of the splines are engaged at both the tranny and final drive ends. Did they click into place? Or is only a short little bit of the normal length engaged?

It's also unclear to me what the life expectancy of the drive shaft is if isn't assembled and working as designed.

Still it's your bike, and perhaps I'm just a worry wart.

Stan

January 11, 2006

Well...the final is definatly fully engaged!! It seems to me that the end on the output shaft of the tranny just slides on and off pretty freely...

hmmmmm...maybe I do get to take it apart again?

Thanks for all your time and input on this, I know it's getting pretty old!!

Cameron

January 11, 2006

It would worry me that it isn't right if it were my bike.

Yeah ...it worries me too! Trouble is I'm just learning what's right as I go along here.

Back to the drawing board...and, as always, thanks much!!

January 11, 2006

...everything seems to be sliding around just fine...my guess is that the driveline is sliding around on the transmission output shaft as that is the only place that is even remotely free sliding!

Please don't tell me I have to take it apart again?!

If it were my bike, I'd take it apart again. (actually, I wouldn't have assembled it like that in the first place ) Trust me, you REALLY don't want to ride the bike with the drive shaft not operating as designed. The sliding MUST be with the middle splines, not at the fore and aft u-joints. I bought my bike in April, and 3500 miles later I had to replace the driveshaft. The reason? The tech that last serviced the bike didn't get the rear u-joint circlip firmly attached the the FD input shaft...during my ride from TX to SoCal, the shaft started backing out and rattling around inside the swingarm, shaving metal in the process. Luckily there was still enough spline contact to keep the bike moving.

The driveshaft really should slide enough to separate into two parts. The u-joints need to be firmly attached to their respective shafts with the circlips. You might have to buy a new driveshaft ($414 IIRC), but it will save you trouble down the road. I'd hate to see you and your SO stranded by the roadside somewhere!

January 11, 2006

If it were my bike, I'd take it apart again

AAAAAAAAAARRRGGGHHH....

Ok...but seriously thanks!!..

What puzzles me is that I don't remember that shaft EVER being loose at all in the middle, even when I first took it apart.

Oh well...off I go to the garage again...

Maybe we'll see DV and maybe we won't...

January 11, 2006

AAAAAAAAAARRRGGGHHH....

I could almost hear you screaming like Steve Carell getting his chest hair waxed in "The 40 Year Old Virgin". Damn that was funny stuff. Sorry man, I had to mention it.

January 11, 2006

If it were my bike, I'd take it apart again

AAAAAAAAAARRRGGGHHH....

Ok...but seriously thanks!!..

What puzzles me is that I don't remember that shaft EVER being loose at all in the middle, even when I first took it apart.

Oh well...off I go to the garage again...

Maybe we'll see DV and maybe we won't...

I've been reading this thread with interest but havn't had any good ideas to contribute. I've been wondering if the driveshaft locking up would be a cause of any of the other problems we see in these bikes' drive trains. If it were me I think I'd buy a new drive shaft here:

http://www.beemerboneyard.com/driveshafts1.html

and install it while I had it apart.

--Jerry

January 11, 2006

Ok...

What I think we have here is a lack of communication...

This...

is the front half of the drive shaft yes?

This DOES NOT come apart...is that true..!?

The rear half is still attached to my final I believe

I think I had it right all along....what thinks all of youssss?

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