Electrical Gremlins Power Blackout

[rich t]

It was a humid morning and I had gone to breakfast before work (20 miles, then the bike sat for one hour).

 

When I went to start the bike, the starter relay and solenoid connected, but then all electrics went dead.

 

I wiggled some wires, on the bars and ignition, and eventually things came back on, but as soon as I hit the starter, blackout again. The blackout was enough that the entire electrical system reset, the clock went out, and no power to the system at all. Had to have the bike towed home.

 

I'm assuming there is a short and power overload. So I went through the wires I could find, and re-wrapped what I could. I also replaced the starter just in case (I did find a loose nut on the starter positive cable).

 

While re-wrapping wires, everything came back to normal.

 

This morning was wet and rainy. As I rolled into the parking lot, the engine stubmed twice in about 400 yards (2nd gear at about 10 mph).

 

When I got to my parking space, I put the bike on the centerstand and cranked the bars back and forth and moved the ignition wires with no stalling.

 

Anybody have this happen?

[philbytx]

Did you replace the old starter with a new starter?

As it does sound like you may have the dreaded "detached magnets" in your Valeo starter can. This is quite common on pre 2001 Oilheads.

 

Mine went in stages.....until it finally locked up.

 

My next question Rich....have you replaced your HES yet?

[rich t]

Yeah. I recently put in one of the $89 chinese starters, so it's not a detached magnet. I had a brand new Valeo overnighted, and put that in over the weekend. I'm just not %100 confident the starter was the issue, since the one I replaced was only 6 months old (albiet chinese crap). I took the chinese starter to autozone, and they were able to spin it up, but the minimum wage guy couldn't tell me whether the starter had overdraw issues. He said the starter could possible be bad.

 

Just a bit concerned that I may have keyed ignition wiring issues.

[rich t]

Had the HES out and re wrapped some of the wires.

 

When the HES goes out, do the electrics typicaly fail compleletely? Or do you just lose spark?

 

 

[schneeman]

I had both a loose magnet in the starter and HES malfunction and neither of those caused a blackout. Starter simply jammed and wouldn't turn, while the HES was causing the engine to die after a few seconds of operation. But perhaps if you have some wires short-circuiting or something, maybe it can result in your symptoms. You say you rewrapped the HES cables, i assume you made sure it functions correctly before reassembling ?

[roger 04 rt]

Inside the starter, there is a cover over the planetary gears which reduce the motor's speed. That cover is press fit into the gear-end of the drive. On my 1150RT, the cover fell into the motor's armature (where magnetism held it in place) and that caused syptoms just like you're describing.

 

So I conclude that there are lots of ways these motors can jam internally, causing current to spike and battery voltage to plummet.

 

I think you've said that this only happens when you're pressing the starter button, is that right?

 

RB

[philbytx]

No, with an HES the electronics do not fail completely Rich. Just messes with the fuel pump and timing. Will still turn over...

 

A buggered starter will definitely draw down the power excessively and reset your clock, dim your lights to nothing etc. DAMHIK!

 

I would still check your HES wiring. The plastic covering on mine went from about 1/2 inch from the top connector and also was all the way down but in places, not completely. You should really do a complete wiring replacement or just put in a new HES. Whatever suits your wallet mate....!

 

Sometimes troubles happen in 2's and 3's!

 

Given your issues, it would be prudent to remove the Tupperware and tank and go over your main harness completely. I just did this on my R bike and replaced the protective covering with 3m self sealing tape where it had crumbled and disappeared and also treated all the wiring connectors with De-Oxit.

 

In a sorta sick, anal way (LOL!), I actually enjoyed doing it.

 

FYI - I've replaced both my HES and the Valeo starter on the R with new ones.

 

 

[rich t]

Inside the starter, there is a cover over the planetary gears which reduce the motor's speed. That cover is press fit into the gear-end of the drive. On my 1150RT, the cover fell into the motor's armature (where magnetism held it in place) and that caused syptoms just like you're describing.

 

So I conclude that there are lots of ways these motors can jam internally, causing current to spike and battery voltage to plummet.

 

I think you've said that this only happens when you're pressing the starter button, is that right?

 

RB

No longer concerned about the starter issues. More worried at this point, about the stumble.

 

I've got replacement wire for the HES and I'm kicking myself for not replacing it, but I didn't have all the pieces to take the harness apart at the plug. I'm also leaning toward getting a new HES and keeping the old one as a spare.

 

I also didn't trace the negative battery terminal. What PITA to trace around the airbox.

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

...

 

I also didn't trace the negative battery terminal. What PITA to trace around the airbox.

 

 

... on the R1150RT the connection is made to the transmission to a lug beneath the ABS/Battery box.

[dirtrider]

Morning Rich

 

That "loose nut on the starter positive cable" was probably your original problem as your stated issues lines up with that as possibly being the issue.

 

On you engine stumble? that could be about anything, might be a break in the wire between the main harness ign switch (near steering neck), or very possibly an engine fueling issue like momentarily sticking fuel injector, or bit of water in the fuel tank. If the engine didn't die completely then not likely a power or grounding issue.

 

Could even be the 02 sensor acting up or possibly the 02 sensor pig tail running too close to the R/H high tension spark plug wire.

 

I have also seen a few 1100RT's that R/H TB cam was contacting the R/H spark plug wire at low throttle openings causing a momentary engine cut out.

 

If your engine stumble problem continues then you might have to rig up an indicator light to the fuel injector circuit & ign coil circuit to verify that you do or don't have a power 12v interruption when your engine stumble is present.