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Recommended Brake Line Replacement - '04 RT 37K miles


Oldironken

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As far as i know my '04 RT with 37K miles has it's original brake lines and is at least due for a fluid flush since i have no idea when that was last done.

 

Is there an BMW recommended interval for replacement of the original lines? Is this something i should do now?

 

I am planning to order shocks this week and am ready to lay the bike up till spring.

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Definitely do a flush....this will give you a better idea of your system condition.

AFAIAA, there is no recommended interval for flexible brake line replacement but at your bikes age and mileage, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Really dependent upon maintenance of the system. If you are doing the flush job yourself, check the color and condition of the fluid at the calipers and just after you start flushing. If it is very dark and opaque and/or has grunge in it , you may have the hoses failing from the INSIDE. Inspect the outer condition of the hoses for cracks and brittleness. If you have either, then I would replace them.

Spiegler does a complete set than many folks use on here.

 

 

 

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Brake line replacement is more a visual inspection issue. I look mine over when I service my bike and flex them around to see if there any cracks in the outer sheathing.. Then if the brake fluid is just a bit brownish then it is old, if it looks really dirt and even blackish or dark brownish then the brake line may be internally breaking down and softening or disolving some. Time to replace with either scenario. If decent oil color and no external cracks, then replacing is not NECCESARY, but many still do because the feel of the SS lines are often better and more firm.

 

A bike stored outside in the sun or exposed to alot of elements may need lines soomer than a garaged weekend warrior with the same mileage on it. A bike that has been ridden and never changed and flushed the fluid may need lines sooner than a bike that was serviced regularly with fresh fluid...cleanliness counts in hard parts wear and tear.

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Thanks guys, that approach make sense. My first quick inspection shows the lines looking fine, the important part will happen during the flush.

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Brake lines are an age/mileage thing (age due to breakdown of the rubber, mileage due to flexing of the lines) and it's impossible to provide a precise replacement interval, but personally I would replace the rubber lines no later than 10-15 years/100k miles. The OEM rubber lines used on the oilheads just don't seem to have a very long life to them and failures are common above these figures. Luckily a Spiegler braided line kit isn't too expensive, will last the rest of the life of the bike (with a guarantee to back that up), and provide a noticeably improved braking feel. It's a great upgrade for an older bike.

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I have a 2000 RT with about 62,000 miles. Front line ruptered last year, rear this year, in my garage. Installed speed bleeders this year to facilitate with yearly flushing. Getting air out of the system is tedious at best when you open the system. Just wondering it's pretty humid here in north georgia, shouls I flush the system more than once a year?

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Is there an BMW recommended interval for replacement of the original lines? Is this something i should do now?

 

There seems to have been a rash of failures in oilheads in the past few years. I don't think I've heard of a failure in a bike younger than ten years old. I would feel safe waiting until next winter if I were you.

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I have a 2000 RT with about 62,000 miles. Front line ruptered last year, rear this year, in my garage. Installed speed bleeders this year to facilitate with yearly flushing. Getting air out of the system is tedious at best when you open the system. Just wondering it's pretty humid here in north georgia, shouls I flush the system more than once a year?

 

IMO once a year is plenty. Once every two years is probably OK. Invest in a Mityvac. Worth its weight in gold when flushing brakes.

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i decided to order the funnel tool from Beemer Boneyard so i don't have to make one up myself. While i'm there i see i can also order brake fluid, they show a Dot 5.1 and a Dot 4 as being compatible with the servo assist brakes

 

Are either of them OK?

 

How much do i need to do a complete flush of everything?

 

My manual is at home so i can't reference it now...

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Buy a quart of quality DOT 4.0. You'll probably throw away half of it but if this is your first bleed, you might want to have some in reserve :) !

I use Ate. It has higher dry and wet boiling temps than 'regular' fluid. They do a Typ200 (which is a golden color) and Ate Super Blue (which is blue LOL!). Makes it easier to see when the system has all new fluid in it.

 

You can buy it on AMAZON or EBay. You can shop around and find cheaper. Last lot I bought was at $16.00

 

 

Just do a Google search.

 

 

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Unless the manufacturer specifies DOT5.1 (and BMW doesn't), you'll be fine with the cheaper and longer lasting DOT4.

 

Avoid Castrol Super DOT4. Gets dark/contaminated very quickly and can lead to brake fade (guess how I know). Personally I am very happy with the cheap standard Motul DOT4 (nothing fancy) but I suspect it may not be available in the US.

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I have a 2000 RT with about 62,000 miles. Front line ruptered last year, rear this year, in my garage. Installed speed bleeders this year to facilitate with yearly flushing. Getting air out of the system is tedious at best when you open the system. Just wondering it's pretty humid here in north georgia, shouls I flush the system more than once a year?

 

With speed bleeders installed, flushing out old brake fluid is a simple task (on the 1100 ABS-II system). Your 2000 RT, is that an R1100? If it is, then bleeding takes no more than 10 minutes each end. Go ahead and flush it when you have the tupperware off. I had similar failures around the 10-11 year mark. Rear line ruptured; front line developed a soft spot that bulged. I replaced with Spiegler SS lines.

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Unless the manufacturer specifies DOT5.1 (and BMW doesn't), you'll be fine with the cheaper and longer lasting DOT4.

 

Avoid Castrol Super DOT4. Gets dark/contaminated very quickly and can lead to brake fade (guess how I know).

How does the brake fluid lead to brake fade ?

 

I have always understood brake fade to refer to a brake system overheating, which results in loss of friction at the shoes or pads.

 

I can see how hard use could cause a fluid, especially if old & water contaminated, to lose it's efficiency as water in the system turns to steam, but that's a maintenance issue. I may have misunderstood :dopeslap:

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Brake fluid gets contaminated by moisture. As moisture builds up the boiling point of brake fluid drops in non linear fashion (different brake fluids are affected in different fashion). The fluid boils, vapor lock kicks in and the brave lever gets spongy (if you are lucky) or you get the scare of your life (if you are unlucky).

 

Vapor lock happens when 1)you still have air in the lines or 2)your brake fluid starts boiling, producing gases (usually water vapor).

Gases are far more compressible than liquids, hence when you apply force to the brake lever you get that spongy feeling.

 

Hope this brief explanation helped you out.

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There is a vendor on eBay that is Canadian based who sells custom stainless steel brake lines that are built to customer specification.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400410934572?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

 

The prices are less than half of what some of the big names charge. I would like to try a set for the front of my R1100RT, but to order, you have to provide exact details on what the seller is to build.

 

I don't want to disable my bike by disassembling the front brake lines for measurement, so I am wondering if anyone has the "specs" for the front brake lines so I can order a set without disabling my bike while I wait for the new lines to arrive?

 

Here are the ordering instructions:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=2303

 

Here are the charts to determine the specs:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=2304

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=2305

 

Anyone out there who can assist?

Thanks - John

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Thanks Kmac, but I have already done that and the vendor does not store bike specs. They only make custom cables made to order. I tried to order by a set for a BMW R1100RT and was told I would have to provide length, fitting types and angles for each line. Thats why I asked if someone might have brake lines that are not yet installed to get the specs without disabling my existing brakes.

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I unfortunately know that the 1100 and the 1150 are different.

I have my 1100 all apart and the brake lines laying on the counter, but that won't help you. Sorry.

 

Too bad they don't have the measurements you need. If I had the ability to make SS brake lines I think I would start gathering drawings and specs so I could market to people easier. It would probably be better than the average person is gonna measure.

 

Sorry I couldn't help

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Brake lines are an age/mileage thing (age due to breakdown of the rubber, mileage due to flexing of the lines) and it's impossible to provide a precise replacement interval, but personally I would replace the rubber lines no later than 10-15 years/100k miles. The OEM rubber lines used on the oilheads just don't seem to have a very long life to them ...

 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

10-15 years/100k miles is not "long life"? How many motorcycles even DO 100k?

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

10-15 years/100k miles is not "long life"? How many motorcycles even DO 100k?

 

It's not. Imagine if brake lines on a car model started having consistent failures after 10 years.

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There is a vendor on eBay that is Canadian based who sells custom stainless steel brake lines that are built to customer specification.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400410934572?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648

 

The prices are less than half of what some of the big names charge. I would like to try a set for the front of my R1100RT, but to order, you have to provide exact details on what the seller is to build.

 

I don't want to disable my bike by disassembling the front brake lines for measurement, so I am wondering if anyone has the "specs" for the front brake lines so I can order a set without disabling my bike while I wait for the new lines to arrive?

 

Here are the ordering instructions:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=2303

 

Here are the charts to determine the specs:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=2304

http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture.php?albumid=252&pictureid=2305

 

Anyone out there who can assist?

Thanks - John

 

I don't recall what the 1100's need but the kit for my 1150 has 5 hoses not 4. That might impact the price a little. My kit from Speigler also came with a junction block for the front.

 

Just my 0.02 They are your brakes, well it's your money too but you are saving the cost of a decent dinner and bottle of wine in exchange for a relative unknown vendor.

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10-15 years/100k miles is not "long life"? How many motorcycles even DO 100k?

And in addition to Jim's correct comment, what does it matter how many motorcycles do 100k? Many people are riding their 1100's way beyond that and the bike you care about is the bike you're riding, not someone else's garage queen.

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The hitch in that giddy up of comparing car brake lines and MC brakes lines is that even if a car is parked outside the brake lines are still hidden under the car and not exposed to sunlight.

 

A bikes brake lines are out there in direct exposure to UV. This WILL break them down a bit farster imho.

 

If you 100k + on a bike, it has spent considerable time out in the elements exposed and may need attention sooner than a car.

 

The biggest factor here though is just the pure improvement in braking feel with teflon/SS lines, bled propperly they are so positive on the feedback and NO mush.

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The biggest factor here though is just the pure improvement in braking feel with teflon/SS lines, bled propperly they are so positive on the feedback and NO mush.

Absolutely. The brakes on the oilheads really aren't bad, powerful and progressive (with teflon/SS lines.) It's hilarious that BMW installed an expensive and complex servo brake system that destroys brake feel on the 1150 when all they needed to do was simply install a set of good brake lines. :grin:

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The magazine tests on the MX bikes every year always brag about the brakes on the KTM and say they wish all of the other brands had brakes as good as the KTM. While the Brembos on the KTM are GREAT brakes, the Nissin brakes on most Asian MX bikes are the same diameter MC and Caliper pistons. The biggest difference is that KTMs come stock with Teflon SS brake lines where as the Asian MX bikes STILL come with stupid rubber and nylon woven brake lines. I always swap out my MX bikes lines with Teflon SS and my Yamis brakes are VERY close to my Katooms.

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Good advice above. I wouldn't skimp on life-critical devices like Brake Lines. Third party grips or spark plugs or seat re-covering, maybe. But when you NEED to stop, you only get one chance.

 

I bought my second '99RT after it had been sitting in a garage in Arizona, virtually untouched for 5 years. Many rubber pieces were dried out, and I didn't hold much hope for the brake lines, although the bike stopped well. So I checked the major brands and really liked the Spiegler lines in black. But $247?? My, oh my. I bit the bullet and did it anyway, and every time I hit the brakes I'm glad I did. The feeling is soooo much more secure and sure.

 

There are places to save money, and there are places to save lives. Brake lines is one of the latter.

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Not that I am an authority, and I am sure most folks here know this info, but I thought I would share the WHY SS lines are better and have more feel for those who do not know. Those more educated than I, feel free to add or adjust...

 

Cars and bikes use rubber lines normally. Most people never change a car to SS unless they build it as a race car or serious hot rod. But remember cars use mostly hard steel lines with short bits or rubber line at the suspension movement. They also have some sort of power assist like a vacumn booster or hydro boost.

MC use mostly rubber for the full length.

BMWs have some metal lines up to the ABS system, but still alot of rubber line.

 

Now why the SS is better than rubber is that a rubber line has a rubber inner tube, then that is wrapped with 1 or more layers of a woven nylon or other fabric based material for strength, then that is wrapped in another rubber tube for weather and abrrasion protection. When you hit the brakes there is a percentage of stretch in the rubber and woven fabric, so part of your lever movement moves the caliper against the pads and thus the rotor, but part is lost in that swelling expansion of the line causing a certain amount of mushyness.

 

A Teflon and SS line has a much stiffer and firm teflon tube with very little expansion ability, then that is wrapped in a SS braided material, that again has very little to no expansion, then that is coated in a clear or colored vinyl out tube for the weather and abrasion protection. With these, when you apply pressure to the brake lever virtually all of the lever movement pushes the brake fluid forward to the caliper with almost NO loss to expansion. This provide a more positive and firm feel at the lever and slightly increases the pressure on the caliper without making the lever any harder to pull....win win.

 

I hope that made sense.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

10-15 years/100k miles is not "long life"? How many motorcycles even DO 100k?

 

It's not. Imagine if brake lines on a car model started having consistent failures after 10 years.

 

My 1984 R100RS never had its lines replaced in the 28 years I rode it. They were exhibiting no problems.

 

But I can understand the Oilheads may have been fitted with lesser quality lines (as was everything German in the late 1990s/early 2000s thanks to Jose Ignacio Lopez) and when my purchased-used 2002 R1100s was due for a system flush (36K miles) it proactively got Spieglers.

 

I understand the next thing to go on Oilheads is wiring harnesses.

 

Just for fun, I read on some forum that the reason SS-braided lines only recently became legal is that a method was finally found for printing DOT information on them.

 

BTW I feel zip/zero/nada change in braking feel. Suppose the whizzy pump causes that?

 

BTW, if you want to read the REAL story as to why brake fluid needs to be changed (it's NOT water absorption) read this: http://www.brakebleeder.com/images/resources/guidelines.pdf

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""Motor vehicle brake fluids are hygroscopic and

absorb moisture when exposed to the atmosphere

and in service. Water contamination from any

source, including mechanical or accidental additions

of free water, will appreciably lower the original

boiling point of the brake fluid, and increase its

viscosity at low ambient temperatures. Water

contamination may cause corrosion of brake cylinder

bores and pistons, and may seriously affect the

braking efficiency and safety of the brake actuating

system.

Source: SAE international standard (J1707, Revised

January 2002).

While moisture is definitely an issue with brake fluids, no consistent and accurate measurement identifying the

percentage of moisture that is detrimental to brake fluid performance has been found in the literature. In addition,

no specification exists for an in-use brake fluid boiling point that can be identified by a testing procedure and

therefore no recommendation for replacement based on moisture content can be made with confidence."

In summary, while the moisture content of the brake fluid remains a concern, no accurate test is available to

determine when it should be replaced based on moisture content."

 

I guess one can draw different conclusions.

I read that water absorbtion is a concern and leads to degradation.

 

There are other factors as identified.

But the focus they had was on finding a way to justify telling a customer to do a flush, not stating water was not the problem.

YMMV

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