Shocks Recommendation

[MarkScott]

Background: 2005 R1150RT, 35K, new to me late last year.

 

Seems to me to have excessive front end dive under braking. I'm told by a few that the stock front shock is likely the culprit. Makes sense to me.

 

I have the bodywork and fairing off now, tank coming off tonight, all for a deep baseline service and to wire up a Starcom1 system. While I'm this deep into it, this seems the perfect time to replace the front shock.

 

Given that I'd like to get two years of riding, another 30K to 36K,before trading up, it seems another less expensive stock front shock would the the way to go. But the talk of Wilbers and Ohlins is intriguing.

 

Question: Is it really worth the additional expense to make the move to one of these shocks, especially since they can eat up what amounts to 10% the bikes value per shock?

[Ozonkiller]

Suspension is always a hard sell. It's not shiny and doesn't make a cool noise.

 

It's the first modification that I make to any motorcycle that I own.

 

Ohlins. Great product and customer service

 

Tom

[Twinsig]

Acquired my 02 model last year and happy to say it has the ohlins, mainly because they need a rebuild, about $300. Certainly happy with that instead of complete replacement.

As for added resale value, i don't know. It seems like a lot of coin for new ones.

 

[Quinn]

Seems odd to have front end dive compared to other motorcycles; you have linked brakes and paralever suspension. I went with HyperPro shocks when my '04 reached 80k. Very happy with them. http://www.hyperpro.com/hyperpro/en

 

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[kmac]

Almost any aftermarket shock will be an improvement. Stick with a brand that is rebuildable, not a welded steel model. Not that those are terrible, but being able to replace the seals and/or revalve and fresh oil is a great ability.

 

The Hyperpro is getting alot of good ink over at ADVrider with some folks even prefering it to the Ohlins.

 

I do not think you could ever go wrong the Swedish Gold stuff though...I just wish they were only Gold plated and not SOLID gold in price...

 

On my MX bikes it is bars first, then suspension, then pipe, then graphics with LOTS of tires mixed into that... Street bikes are a bit different for me. Suspension SHOULD probably be earlier in the mix, but I usually wait until the OE stuff is tiring out, then I get to have what feels like a NEW bike when I do the shocks...I only have kept a few bikes that long though...Im kind of a bike whore I guess. Especially dirt bikes, 3 years tops.

[id09542]

Put a pair of Hyperpros on this summer on my 04 RT. Great price, service was excellent, and not sure if still the case, but they included a free rebuild coupon that does not expire. Nothing but great things to say so far.

[ElevenFifty]

+3 on Hyperpro ... mine are at EMP for their 2nd rebuild ... bought them with 60K on the bike ... 1st rebuild at 95K ... 2nd rebuild at 134K. Great ride

[peterbulgar]

Is this your first BMW with a telelever front end? Have you adjusted the settings on the front suspension? Is there visible leakage from the shock? I've found the BMW suspension components to be long-lived and at least adequate, although my experience is with the lighter R and not the RT. Friends who have the Ohlins shocks say they love them. If I spent that much money on something, I'd probably love it too.

Peter

San Francisco

[Jim Moore]

Question: Is it really worth the additional expense to make the move to one of these shocks, especially since they can eat up what amounts to 10% the bikes value per shock?

 

No, IMO. I'm a huge fan of aftermarket suspensions on dedicated track bikes where I'm trying to squeeze the last bit of performance out of my suspension. I don't think it's necessary on a street bike. I recommend you look for a set of used OEM shocks.

[dan cata]

...I recommend you look for a set of used OEM shocks.

 

... from someone that changed them to some Ohlins

 

The used OEM's seem to go as low as 15 eur, on ebay.de at least

 

Dan.

[MarkScott]

Yes, this is my first BMW. First telelever suspension. First with fully linked brakes. I've been riding nearly 40 years, many different brands, mostly HD the last ten years. My riding style is aggressive but not insane. No knee dragging, heck my knees are barely functional. After this bike, my preference will be for a partially linked setup, I am a little too addicted to trail braking from time to time.

 

I initially thought it was just my needing to adapt. But I have about 3K on the bike since acquiring it in the fall and although I am getting used to the linked brakes, I still find what I feel is a lot of dive on any hard braking situation. But the darned thing will stop on the proverbial dime.

 

There is no visible sign of leakage or weeping at the shock or fork tubes.

 

What front suspension adjustments? Am I missing something? I have played with the rear shock and pre-load setting and don't notice any difference in the dive.

 

Again, this could well just be my perceptions. Once something gets into the head it can be tough to shake.

 

My goal with this bike is to get one full season, maybe two, before moving onward and upward. The ability to rebuild is great, but I don't anticipate owning this one that long.

 

I got an almost immediate reply from Ted at the BeemerShop and he was very, very helpful and, IMHO, his response was above and beyond and may have locked in my business should I decide to swap out the front while I have the tupperware and tank off.

 

The Ohlins seem great but in light of the short duration I'll be riding this bike I will likely go with a less expensive alternative if I move ahead with a replacement shock at all. Maybe I just need to pile the miles...

 

Thanks for all of the inputs!!!

 

[Twinsig]

"My goal with this bike is to get one full season, maybe two, before moving onward and upward. The ability to rebuild is great, but I don't anticipate owning this one that long."

 

Onward and upward to what?........Just curious, I have looked at the FJR's myself, but I can only dream of riding a brand-new bike off the showroom...

 

 

 

 

[cris nitro]

I would also like to know about "front supension adjustment". Didn't know it existed.

[breyfogle]

IMHO, upgraded rebuildable suspension is definitely worth the expense. However, don't expect new shocks to fix "excessive front end dive". Telelever front geometry is designed NOT to have any (or almost no) front end dive. If you could leave the spring in place, you could remove the shock all together, and there would be no change for better or worse in the amount of front end dive.

[peterbulgar]

On my 2004 R the front shock absorber adjustment is at the bottom of the shock on the left side. Should be in the Riders Manual under shock adjustment. There's no preload - just a screw for damping. As on the rear, clockwise towards H is harder, counter-clockwise towards S is softer. I apologize if the RT doesn't have that - I thought the suspensions were the same.

Peter

San Francisco

[MarkScott]

The hope/plan is a K1600GT... one of these days I'm taking one out for a demo ride, never to be seen again.

 

"My goal with this bike is to get one full season, maybe two, before moving onward and upward. The ability to rebuild is great, but I don't anticipate owning this one that long."

 

Onward and upward to what?........Just curious, I have looked at the FJR's myself, but I can only dream of riding a brand-new bike off the showroom...

 

 

 

[MarkScott]

Nope, nothing there...

 

 

On my 2004 R the front shock absorber adjustment is at the bottom of the shock on the left side. Should be in the Riders Manual under shock adjustment. There's no preload - just a screw for damping. As on the rear, clockwise towards H is harder, counter-clockwise towards S is softer. I apologize if the RT doesn't have that - I thought the suspensions were the same.

Peter

San Francisco

[MarkScott]

Interesting, and makes perfect sense. Makes me wonder if what I'm sensing as dive is really just aggressive, effective braking? I have no basis for comparison.

 

On the last few H-D E-Glides I always went to very firm Progressive forks and shocks and even with aftermarket rotors and pads you couldn't get an inch of dive if you tried. Maybe I'm perceiving something that is normal to these lighter bikes with no-kidding brakes?

 

IMHO, upgraded rebuildable suspension is definitely worth the expense. However, don't expect new shocks to fix "excessive front end dive". Telelever front geometry is designed NOT to have any (or almost no) front end dive. If you could leave the spring in place, you could remove the shock all together, and there would be no change for better or worse in the amount of front end dive.

[peterbulgar]

That's what I get for assuming. I looked up a test for the 2005 RT and, sure enough, there is no front suspension adjustment. 2005 was the first year for the (optional) ESA, so maybe BMW figured that if you want to adjust your front suspension, you should get the ESA.

peter

[Eckhard Grohe]

Lindemann Engineering for shock rebuilds. They will rebuild yours. I believe Bruno also does it.

[Clive Liddell]

Hi Mark,

 

Adding to breyfogel's comment re thec front anti-dive geometry the only time the front may "dive" is during hard use of the rear brake with no front brake.

 

Of course, if your F-R brakes are linked then this should not happen...

[David R]

Turning the rear rebound all the way will help a little with dive. Try it and see. No there is no adjustment on the front. Have you measured your sag front and rear?

 

Your shock may be ok and maybe your front spring is weak.

 

Look for slightly used OE replacement shocks, they are cheap.

 

My RT has 137,000 miles on it with original shocks. Front is good rear gets bouncy after a long day especially two up on bumpy roads. I replaced the front spring and adjusted the preload by taking the spring off and adding a shim. I will be adding a shim to my 12 R1200R this winter.

 

I do feel more dive with the linked brakes on my R than with out. On my RT I can make the front end dive more with the rear brake than the front.

[PAS]

Mark, A friend of mine had an 03 RT and the front shock/spring was sagged quite a lot. It was difficult getting it on the center stand.

Ironically it was traded in at a dealership in Ohio.....I wonder

[MarkScott]

Mine is an 05 and came from Texas. But thanks...

 

Mark, A friend of mine had an 03 RT and the front shock/spring was sagged quite a lot. It was difficult getting it on the center stand.

Ironically it was traded in at a dealership in Ohio.....I wonder

[Selden]

Question: Is it really worth the additional expense to make the move to one of these shocks, especially since they can eat up what amounts to 10% the bikes value per shock?

"Worth" is in the mind of the owner. My 1999 RT came with Öhlins, and I never cease to be amazed at the ride quality. The only drawback (other than price) is that the seals on Öhlins seem to be a little on the soft side, and they may have to be serviced more frequently (20,000 miles recommended, but that seems a little too conservative to me).

 

To my way of thinking, brand is less important than finding a motorcycle suspension specialist near where you live, preferably one with experience with your bike, and have something built to your weight and riding style — a process that may require some fine tuning. Alternatively, talk with an engineer at one of the after-market shock companies. Doing just one end is a waste of money; if you're going to upgrade the suspension do it right.

[kmac]

Just for reference to "anti-dive" suspension on a Telelever.

My RT DOES dive and the shock is fine up front. It drops a good bit at the return of the throttle then a small amount of dive under front brake...nothing like a conventional forked bike, but it does exist. The biggest part of it though is when I release the throttle, there is a drop.

 

I am sure a good, well set up aftermarket front shock would help with that some, but I would always expect some of that.

[PAS]

I just found this about rebuilding the rear BMW shocks.

http://www.brunos.us/shocks.htm

[breyfogle]

.... It drops a good bit at the return of the throttle .... The biggest part of it though is when I release the throttle, there is a drop.

 

I do believe almost all throttle related jacking is due to the final drive wagging the front end through the paralever arm. Again, not directly shock related.

[kmac]

Not sure what "wagging" is, but I do feel the paralever jacking, but there is definately a drop in the front end at throttle chop.

And a bit of dive under braking, still nothing like a standard forked bike.

 

My '87 GSXR even had these little valves on the bottom of the forks that were connected to the brakes. When you hit the brakes it push a cylinder that added fork pressure {not positive of the exact process it used, but this is a basic} to minimise dive, most racers disabled it though.

[kmac]

I personally have never had a problem with dive.

I have always riding longer travel MX bikes. You know it will dive, you expect it, and it provides a valid reaction in the frame geometry.

 

By the forks shortening under hard braking {diving} the steering angle steepens making it corner more crisp and sharply. Once back on the throttle and forks extend, you get your long rake/trail and the stability returns for higher speed stuff.

 

On the Telelever suspension BMWs, I believe,correct me if I am wrong, the intent is to keep a predicted geometry through all phases of riding, braking, cornering and then build around a constant geometry...I think.

[MarkScott]

I appreciate all of the feedback! I think I'm going to forego the shock change until I get a few more miles on the bike and better convince myself that there is a real issue and not just a perception of an issue.

[tallman]

Have an experienced boxer owner ride it.

[Effjay]

A couple of days ago, the OP coulda bought the set I had advertised here a month ago removed from my RT by the PO at just 2k miles and replaced by Ohlins. No hits here, so I ran an ad on ADV. Earlier this week, I get pinged with an "I'll take 'em" from a guy in NorCal with an '05 RTP than just blew its rear suspension seal with hydraulic puddle below moto to show for it. So he drove prox 700 miles roundtrip to get 'em rather than wait for USPS arrival. He's happy and I'm even happier to have the "gold bling" on my own moto with 10k total miles since new and cash in my wallet too!

[MarkScott]

Except that, a couple days ago the OP (me) was contemplating replacement with adjustable aftermarket. I saw your ad but it was not what I was looking for, thanks anyway.

 

I'm going to follow the advice of others, forego the shock swap until I can confirm there is indeed a problem to be addressed.

 

And the cash is still in my wallet too!

[kmac]

The idea of finding a local {or close enough to ride to, anywhere in the country then right'lol} and have them ride you steed and tell you if there is a blown or bad shock on it, OR if that is the way it rides normally.

 

If you are fortunate, you may find someone who has an Ohlins, Hyperpro, Elka or other that will let YOU take a spin on their bike to see if it is worth it to you.

 

Maybe.

[Peter Parts]

Question: Is it really worth the additional expense to make the move to one of these shocks, especially since they can eat up what amounts to 10% the bikes value per shock?

"Worth" is in the mind of the owner. My 1999 RT came with Öhlins, and I never cease to be amazed at the ride quality. The only drawback (other than price) is that the seals on Öhlins seem to be a little on the soft side, and they may have to be serviced more frequently (20,000 miles recommended, but that seems a little too conservative to me).

 

To my way of thinking, brand is less important than finding a motorcycle suspension specialist near where you live, preferably one with experience with your bike, and have something built to your weight and riding style — a process that may require some fine tuning. Alternatively, talk with an engineer at one of the after-market shock companies. Doing just one end is a waste of money; if you're going to upgrade the suspension do it right.

 

Let me explain.

 

For years, I've been pointing people to my write-up on revalving the stock shocks. And claiming there is no difference in FEEL what so ever between a $1200 Ohlins and a stocker adjusted the same.

 

But Selden has caught me! Yes, there is one (or more) little differences. The Ohlins has less stiction because it uses softer rubber on the seals. So you replace the seals more often (like 20,000 miles compared to never before you sell it).

 

Anybody here think that's a good trade-off for a street rider?

 

Yes as Selden again wisely points out in his post, if you (ever) get the Ohlins sorted out right to your taste (by paying more cash to an expert tuner), you'll say you are glad to have an adjustable Ohlins.

 

See my write-up.

 

Ben

[philbytx]

Check your rear suspension setting first.

Ensure that you have the proper preload/rebound setting for yourself.

 

Also note that some pre=load adjusters may need filling with hydraulic fluid. Simple check is to back off your adjuster to the lightest setting and then try to screw it down. You should feel some resistance fairly quickly. If you do NOT, then you need to do a fill. Plenty of info on the site about it....

 

[dazzz]

So many people, so many times. I need new suspension!

 

"Check your rear suspension setting first.

Ensure that you have the proper preload/rebound setting for yourself."

 

Even if you buy the most expensive, best ever, shocks. You must still set them up for YOU.