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1200RTP final drive fluid

KER

By KER
in Hexheads

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KER

KER

Posted
Posted

Time for another 12k mile service. Last time I was able to find the recommended Castrol Syntec 75w-90 gear oil. Now I can only find the Castrol Syntrax LS oil. Is this the same stuff now? If i recall the bmw was specifically looking for non-limited slip oil.

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dirtrider

dirtrider

Posted
Posted

Afternoon KER

 

As far as I can tell through some research I did about a month ago the Castrol Syntec 75w-90 isn't imported into the US yet.

 

The LS version has a limited slip friction modifier added & I couldn't determine if that would effect the gear oil or not. Probably not but I couldn't verify what LS additive Castrol is using or how it would/could effect the oil seals & if it would/could migrate into the sealed crown bearing chamber. (limited slip additive's claim to fame is it's ability to migrate into extremely tiny & tight places like between spring loaded limited slip clutches)

 

Lacking credible info on the effect of the LS additive in the Castrol Syntec personally I am still using Land Rover LRN 7591 (same thing as CASTROL SAF-XO 75W-90 only sold under the Land Rover part number & a lot cheaper than CASTROL SAF-XO 75W-90 from the BMW dealer.

 

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Dave_in_TX

Dave_in_TX

Posted
Posted
FWIW....The local BMW dealer in Austin Texas sells and recommends Amsoil synt 75-90.

 

I haven't seen Amsoil 75W-90 there in quite a while but they still carry and the last time I asked, they recommended Amsoil. 80W-90

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w2ge

w2ge

Posted
Posted

That's what I'm using... it is "limited slip"", GL-5, MT-1 ratings

states for standard or LS hypoid gears..

 

Should I drain it and switch??? There is a local Range Rover dealer, I could see if they have the oil DR talks about.

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dirtrider

dirtrider

Posted
Posted

Afternoon Phil

 

There is really no way to know if using a limited slip gear oil will cause you any short or long term problems. Probably not but as I mentioned above it does contain a friction modifier to allow the gear oil get into (& remain) in places normal (non LS) gear oil usually doesn't. And BMW doesn't recommend a limited slip gear oil.

 

I would imagine as long as it meets BMW recommendations it should be OK. Problem is, BMW recommends Castrol SAF-XO in their service manual (no other spec or choice given). (that gear oil is now being replaced by Castrol Syntec 75w-90 gear oil in Europe).

 

Most if not all 1200RT final drive failures are bearing or seal related not gear wear related & about ANY GL-5 gear oil will protect the gears.

 

If the gear oil stays out of the crown bearing cavity & doesn't leak out the R/H side seal or pinion seal then your gear oil choice is probably correct. The thing is, you can't tell if the gear oil has migrated into the crown bearing cavity without tearing the final drive apart.

 

My personal take is: as long as the bike is under warranty & you are on good terms with your dealer then about anything you use probably won't be an issue.

The other side is: if the bike is just slightly out of warranty & your final drive fails, if the dealer pulls the final drive apart & finds non BMW approved gear oil in it then they have good reason to deny any & all good-will help with out-of-warranty repairs.

Again, with a good customer oriented friendly dealer they probably won't go looking for ANY reason to deny good-will out of warranty help. A greedy dealer or unfriendly dealer will use about any means possible to NOT get involved in good-will help as they are looking to get deep into your pockets for max gain on their part.

 

If the dealer pulls the final drive apart & finds gear oil in the crown bearing they just might question your gear oil choice (I know I would)

 

With the final drive only holding a bit over 6 ounces of gear oil personally I use the BMW recommended gear oil as it is cheap when figured per final drive oil change. (plus Castrol SAF-XO is actually a high end gear oil).

 

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dirtrider

dirtrider

Posted
Posted

Afternoon KER

 

Wow!, I just paid $11.xx a quart about 3 months ago at Land Rover.

 

You might call around to a few dealers to see if they are all as greedy as your local Land Rover.

 

I see it's running about $18.00 per quart (free shipping) on E-Bay so that is up a bit from mid summer prices.

 

Looks like Castrol SAF-XO on E-Bay has gone up, only one listing there now $8.00 a quart + $6.25 shipping.

 

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w2ge

w2ge

Posted
Posted

I called my local Land Rover dealer and he said the price was $19.00 and "in-stock."

 

Just to be safe, I guess I'm gonna switch my FD oil out.

 

Fast Hijack:

 

Is the Ls oil (Valvoline 75/90) okay for the transmission?

 

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dirtrider

dirtrider

Posted
Posted

Afternoon Phil

 

Most bearings in the trans are sealed & run in their own sealed grease.

 

Not much gear loading so about any GL-5 gear oil should work OK in the trans.

 

Personally I don't like to run limited slip gear oil in the trans due to the sealed bearings but again I have no data or proof of LS gear oil migrating into the bearings & diluting the grease.

 

What I have found is some gear oils shift better than others in the 1200RT as the trans sliders seem to have differed clearances & spline friction between different transmissions.

 

So far the LRN 7591 seems to shift the best in my 09 1200RT. In my 1200 GS Royal Purple shifts best for a short time but that stuff seems to shear rather quickly & shifting degrades quickly so I am using the LRN 7591 in that also.

 

I believe BMW now suggests SAX-XO (same as LRN 7591) in the newer RT transmissions, in the older hexhead BMW suggested straight 90 weight GL-5.

 

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KER

KER

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I ended up buying a 1 gallon bottle of AMSOIL 75w-90 synthetic at the specialty performance shop across the street from the Land Rover dealer. $50 for the bottle, no LS additive.

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SuperG

SuperG

Posted
Posted
FWIW....The local BMW dealer in Austin Texas sells and recommends Amsoil synt 75-90.

 

I haven't seen Amsoil 75W-90 there in quite a while but they still carry and the last time I asked, they recommended Amsoil. 80W-90

 

YOu may be right, the last time I was there was about a year and half. just checked it is 75-90.

 

Read the yellow print on the bottle. 500,000 miles service life in semi trucks? And we are changing oil in our FD in 6-10K mile intervals or at tire changes?

 

 

P1222896_zpsbe1c6e7f.jpg

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SuperG

SuperG

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Posted

As dirt rider stated many times before, the FD failures are bearing related, these bearings are sealed away form gear lube and running in their own grease.

Should it matter what brand of lube is being used in the FD as long as it is high quality synthetic and does not have limited slip modifier/additives?

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Dave_in_TX

Dave_in_TX

Posted
Posted
FWIW....The local BMW dealer in Austin Texas sells and recommends Amsoil synt 75-90.

 

I haven't seen Amsoil 75W-90 there in quite a while but they still carry and the last time I asked, they recommended Amsoil. 80W-90

 

YOu may be right, the last time I was there was about a year and half. just checked it is 75-90.

 

Read the yellow print on the bottle. 500,000 miles service life in semi trucks? And we are changing oil in our FD in 6-10K mile intervals or at tire changes?

 

 

P1222896_zpsbe1c6e7f.jpg

 

I meant to say "they still carry Amsoil 80W90 and that's what they recommended to me. However, the 80W90 doesn't state anything about a 500,000 mile service life.

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dirtrider

dirtrider

Posted
Posted
I use Royal Purple 75/90. It meets all the required specs.

 

GT

 

Morning GT

 

Interesting, where did you find the "required" BMW specs on the 1200RT final drive fluid?

 

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dirtrider

dirtrider

Posted
Posted

Morning GT

 

Can you share the verified specs your dealer gave you. I presume they came from some sort of official BMW document & not just the usual dealers guess, or the want-to-sound-important mantra most dealers give.

 

Reason I ask is I have a lot of BMW bulletins & service info & haven't ever seen the actual 1200RT final drive gear oil specifications listed anywhere.

 

An actual verified document from BMW on 1200 final drive gear oil specs would be a great bit of info. A BMW document number would be nice so we can look it up & have actual BMW (not just dealer guessing) gear oil spec data.

 

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gordiet

gordiet

Posted
Posted

DR

 

No document from the dealer. That's why I went to my engineer friend and he did some research on the BMW oil FD oil and was able to figure out what it was. Then he compared it to other brands Castrol, Purple and others. He felt OK with Castrol and Purple. That was good enough for me.

 

GT

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Luma46

Luma46

Posted
Posted

Few people realize that the same designation/grade oils, say 75W-90, do not have the same specs, especially not the viscosities at 40 and 100 C as per respective ASTM. I did research most of the common oils used in motorcycles, engine and gear oils, including the ones recommended by BMW. If interested, send me a PM, I email you a table in XLS format.

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w2ge

w2ge

Posted
Posted

I know this is purely anecdotal... so take it for what you want.. but talking to a friend of mine he has used Mobil 1 Syn diff oil (for Limited Slip) for over 50K miles in his RT.. All Good.

 

He was head motorcycle mechanic training instructor for all of Suzuki N.A. (now retired) His advice: "I wouldn't loose any sleep over it"... (Re: if you do have LS oil in your diff.)

 

But, he admitted he/nor anyone, it seems, really knows if it is or isn't a possible issue.

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