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R1200RT Rocker arm play


Red RT

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Hello,

 

I am planning to do major maintenance on my bike over the holidays and I may need to adjust the rocker arm end play on one of the cylinders. I am wondering if any of you have done this adjustment? I am not sure if I can get away with loosening the bolts for just one rocker arm or would I need to loosen all of the bolts? My understanding is that the same bolts also secure the head to the cylinder? I do not want to warp the head by doing this adjustment incorrectly. Thanks for any info.

 

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to Everyone!

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Unless they're very sloppy, I'd leave them alone. Unless you are familiar with doing this, there is a chance you could get them too tight and end up doing some pricey damage.

Anything in the tighter half of the spec range is fine. The min is very close and you don't want to miss by a few thousanths and bind it..

 

Done one arm at at time with bolts relaxed as little as possible to tap it a bit. They areindeed dual purpose- head bolts, also.

If it was done right once, its unlikely it needs to be touched, unless you've racked up mucho miles.

 

Mine are set at 2X the min spec.

 

To get smoothest idle, the most important adjustment is matching the valve clearances as close as possible. For most folks, a set of go/no go gauges will allow a closer and more easily verifiable adjustment that regular feeler gauges. With them, it is fairly easy to be precise to nearest .001", not so easy with regular feelers where twice that error is doing pretty good.

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During the last valve adjustment cycle one of the arms (right side) was a bit looser than the other three. I hope I do not need to adjust it but just in case I would want to be prepared. One more question: Before loosening the bolts, do you mark the bolts so you can tighten them back to the same location? Since the gasket between the head and cylinder will not be replaced I do not think it would be a good idea to use the factory spec to tighten the bolts... since there is no final torque value give for these bolts and the gasket is already stretched...

Thanks for any advice.

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Morning Red RT

 

 

You really have to loosen all the bolts/nut on the rocker shaft bearing to do it properly.

 

When you move the adjustment on one rocker shaft it effects the other shaft clearance so you will probably have to at least check the other rocker shaft end clearance.

 

You really should loosen the (one) cylinder head nut as trying to move the rocker shaft bearing without doing so is not only risky but it can change the torque on that nut anyhow.

 

As mentioned above you probably don't want to go to minimum clearance on your first attempt. You really can't get a feeler gauge around the rear of the rocker so have no way of verifying you have enough clearance all the way around.

 

Personally I don't like using a feeler gauge for rocker end play as it is ever so easy to end with a tight place you didn't (or couldn't measure).

 

I set to .001" above minimum but I use a dial indicator for the movement measurement (that assures the setting is ACTUAL rocker movement & not just a feeler stock pushed in a few places)--much more accurate. (definitely re-check clearances after all is tight & re-torqued --don't skip this step)

 

On loosening the cyl head nut?-- DO mark it FIRST (I use a center punch) then do the torque & 180° turn method. If it ends up in the same place it was originally marked all is good. If it is not in the same place then RE-CHECK your torque & method & also check the other 3 on that cyl head. (maybe it wasn't re-torqued correctly to begin with).---- (make sure the cyl head nut & stud threads are FULLY oiled before doing the torque + 180° as the torque is given for a well oiled nut to stud)

 

When done CAREFULLY verify you have a little rocker movement on every valve (crank must be turned to allow loose rockers to check for movement). If you have one that seems tight or sounds different on end play click then re-measure/re-verify that one is set correctly.

 

Just keep in mind a bit of noise or a slightly loose rocker end play won't hurt a thing but a tight one sure can cause you problems.

 

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Unless they're very sloppy, I'd leave them alone. Unless you are familiar with doing this, there is a chance you could get them too tight and end up doing some pricey damage.

Anything in the tighter half of the spec range is fine. The min is very close and you don't want to miss by a few thousanths and bind it..

 

Done one arm at at time with bolts relaxed as little as possible to tap it a bit. They areindeed dual purpose- head bolts, also.

If it was done right once, its unlikely it needs to be touched, unless you've racked up mucho miles.

 

Mine are set at 2X the min spec.

 

To get smoothest idle, the most important adjustment is matching the valve clearances as close as possible. For most folks, a set of go/no go gauges will allow a closer and more easily verifiable adjustment that regular feeler gauges. With them, it is fairly easy to be precise to nearest .001", not so easy with regular feelers where twice that error is doing pretty good.

 

I use the feeler gauges that BBY sells. Each valve has their own feeler gauge. What I have found in the first two adjustments is the the left side valves, particularly the intakes have been looser than the other. At the 6K service, the left side intakes were about .3mm and still were looser than the other at the 12K. Does this bike's valve clearances ever stabilize?

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DR

If you ever get a chance, can you take a picture of how you setup your dial indicator to measure rocker arm end play?

I have got multiple dial indicators at home.

It's certainly the method I would prefer.

 

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Unless they're very sloppy, I'd leave them alone. Unless you are familiar with doing this, there is a chance you could get them too tight and end up doing some pricey damage.

Anything in the tighter half of the spec range is fine. The min is very close and you don't want to miss by a few thousanths and bind it..

 

Done one arm at at time with bolts relaxed as little as possible to tap it a bit. They areindeed dual purpose- head bolts, also.

If it was done right once, its unlikely it needs to be touched, unless you've racked up mucho miles.

 

Mine are set at 2X the min spec.

 

To get smoothest idle, the most important adjustment is matching the valve clearances as close as possible. For most folks, a set of go/no go gauges will allow a closer and more easily verifiable adjustment that regular feeler gauges. With them, it is fairly easy to be precise to nearest .001", not so easy with regular feelers where twice that error is doing pretty good.

 

I use the feeler gauges that BBY sells. Each valve has their own feeler gauge. What I have found in the first two adjustments is the the left side valves, particularly the intakes have been looser than the other. At the 6K service, the left side intakes were about .3mm and still were looser than the other at the 12K. Does this bike's valve clearances ever stabilize?

 

I have a 2007 RT with 40K miles. The valves have not changed since 18,000 miles.

 

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Afternoon Alfred

 

I took this picture for gent a while back.

 

This as set up just for picture taking & reference. (I usually use the top nut on the rocker as that one is not loosened).

 

In any case you can get the idea, then set it up within the aspects of your indicator type & stinger parts.

 

I like to have the rocker arm I am using loose but lightly resting on the valve stem so ALL my indicator sees if vertical movement with no rotational added in.

 

Just remember if your indicator stinger is at an angle to movement that is an "indirect" reading so take that into account in your total movement. Always try to have your indicator stinger & movement stroke move in line (or as I have 180°opposiote), never at an angle.

 

rockershaftendplay.jpg

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Unless they're very sloppy, I'd leave them alone. Unless you are familiar with doing this, there is a chance you could get them too tight and end up doing some pricey damage.

Anything in the tighter half of the spec range is fine. The min is very close and you don't want to miss by a few thousanths and bind it..

 

Done one arm at at time with bolts relaxed as little as possible to tap it a bit. They areindeed dual purpose- head bolts, also.

If it was done right once, its unlikely it needs to be touched, unless you've racked up mucho miles.

 

Mine are set at 2X the min spec.

 

To get smoothest idle, the most important adjustment is matching the valve clearances as close as possible. For most folks, a set of go/no go gauges will allow a closer and more easily verifiable adjustment that regular feeler gauges. With them, it is fairly easy to be precise to nearest .001", not so easy with regular feelers where twice that error is doing pretty good.

 

I use the feeler gauges that BBY sells. Each valve has their own feeler gauge. What I have found in the first two adjustments is the the left side valves, particularly the intakes have been looser than the other. At the 6K service, the left side intakes were about .3mm and still were looser than the other at the 12K. Does this bike's valve clearances ever stabilize?

 

I have a 2007 RT with 40K miles. The valves have not changed since 18,000 miles.

 

Mine is a 2009 with 15K. I'll have to see what it is like at the 18K mile service. it still uses oil though, about a quart every 3-4K miles.

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Odd bike you've got. Most R1200 owners report very stable valve adjustment and little to no change over moderate mileage. I haven't actually moved mine in about 18,000 miles...Mine also quit using oil before its 6K service and now at 40K still uses none. Loading rings fully during break in and not babying the motor too much especially in the first couple hundred miles matters.

 

As much as I like DRs dial indicator setup, I'd not suggest to most trying to get as close as he is to min spec. That's only for folks who are very accustomed to precise machine measurements and fully understand how to play in the min spec zone without getting into trouble. Mine is at tight end of spec but a little bit looser than DRs, still with no odd noises or clicking and double checked to be free all around- and done carefully with feeler gauges noting the accessibility limit of those and the need for careful checking.

You don't want to find out what the repairs will cost if you get too tight and bind the rocker. You might get off cheaply but then again, maybe not...

 

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Odd bike you've got. Most R1200 owners report very stable valve adjustment and little to no change over moderate mileage. I haven't actually moved mine in about 18,000 miles...Mine also quit using oil before its 6K service and now at 40K still uses none. Loading rings fully during break in and not babying the motor too much especially in the first couple hundred miles matters.

 

As much as I like DRs dial indicator setup, I'd not suggest to most trying to get as close as he is to min spec. That's only for folks who are very accustomed to precise machine measurements and fully understand how to play in the min spec zone without getting into trouble. Mine is at tight end of spec but a little bit looser than DRs, still with no odd noises or clicking and double checked to be free all around- and done carefully with feeler gauges noting the accessibility limit of those and the need for careful checking.

You don't want to find out what the repairs will cost if you get too tight and bind the rocker. You might get off cheaply but then again, maybe not...

 

The bike had 50 miles on it when I bought it. The dealer must have let a couple people including me take it for a test ride so I can't say how it was treated early on. I can tell you I didn't baby the bike at all, but I didn't beat the piss out of it either. My two previous bikes were Kawasaki Vulcans and were tighter than this bike is and sooner too. That said, I sometimes wonder if the mechanic torqued the head bolts at the 600 mile service as all they put down on the invoice was engine oil and filter.

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On the oilhead which looks similar, I put one thousandth bigger feeler gauge that I wanted on then adjusted it. Then checked it with the dial indicater . The end of the rocker shaft was NOT square so the careful. This adjustment only has to be done once. It must be done properly. Have fun and enjoy.

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Do you adjust the rocker arm play with the top studs or do you loosen both the top and bottom bolts? Also, the proper torque values are 20NM + 180deg turn for all four nuts, correct? Thanks!

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Morning Red RT

 

Only loosen the lower ones shown. Just slightly as you want to be able tap the lower rocker shaft bearing with light taps but have it retain it's position after tapping'

 

IMPORTANT!!! ALWAYS/ALWAYS re-check the rocker shaft end play after all the bolts are tight & torqued.

 

On the cyl had stud nuts?-- yes, 20nm the an additional 180° of rotation. The cyl stud threads & washer MUST be well oiled before torquing.

 

ADDED: also make sure the engine & cyl head are cold before doing the adjustments.

 

 

rockershaftendplay-1.jpg

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DR

Haven't seen one of those dial indicators before..different.

But it's basically an indicator for internal measurements.

I have one of those for internal, i.e instead of a plunger, this mine uses a sideways deflection. It also comes with different size arms.

The real tick is to get one of those clamps with the build in rod that you show in the picture, as at the moment I have only the magnetic base version to mount my dial indicators.

 

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Afternoon Alfred

 

 

Yes, there are all kinds or indictor sets that will work. From simple cobra link bases, to clamp on type, to even magnetic (as long as something steel is clamped to the mounting surface)

 

The set up I have pictured mounted on the cylinder head is an old Sterrett universal kit (probably 40 years old or more).

 

That little toggle mechanism is the key as that allows DIRECT reading without having to angle the indicator stinger.

 

 

Starrett-196A1Z-Universal-Black-Plunger-Dial-Test-Indicator-Kit.jpg

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This may be a redundant question but just to make sure: are the torque values for the bearing bolts different from the head bolt torque values? What would they be?

Again, thanks for all the info you provided.

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Morning Red RT

 

You just had to ask. The answer is-- it depends on what service manual you go by.

 

The 2005 BMW manual shows just what my picture shows. The later manuals show all 3 of those 8mm bolts at 19nm.

 

Probably doesn't matter so take your choice.

 

1200CylHEAD.jpg

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Thanks for the picture DR! Pictures worth a 1000 words.

May be the difference in torque is due to the length of the bolts themselves... Anyway, the BMW CD I have for my bike says 19,18,15 nm for these bolts...go figure... see values shown below.

 

Timing-gear carrier, camshaft bearing, bearing cap left/right, M8 x 30 19 Nm

Timing-gear carrier, camshaft bearing, bearing cap left/right, M8 x 40 18 Nm

Timing-gear carrier, camshaft bearing, bearing cap left/right, M8 x 65 15 Nm

 

What do you think of these values? I think I have heard BMW changing these as you have explained yourself. So, unless I hear back from you to the contrary I will use the values you provided. Hopefuly will get this work done over the weekend...

Thanks and have Happy Holidays (Christmas) and New Year!

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Morning Red Rider

 

I think the torques you posted are right on. The torque "is" mandated by bolt length.

 

Problem is, that 65 mm bolt comes in from behind & is not one you loosen to do the rocker arm end play adj.

 

The bolts you loosen are 30mm & 40 mm long.

 

BMW (CD/DVD) manuals are just a bit problematic to use as they are none too precise in some of their verbiage. (probably due to the German to English translation)

 

 

rockerassy.png

 

 

Added: it really should read--

 

Timing-gear carrier, rocker bearing, bearing cap left/right, M8 x 30 19 Nm

Timing-gear carrier, rocker bearing, bearing cap left/right, M8 x 40 18 Nm

Timing-gear carrier, camshaft bearing, bearing cap left/right, M8 x 65 15 Nm

 

 

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Dr, again thanks for clearing this up. The BMW CD does not realy point out which bolt is which... I always thought one of the bolts being loosened up is the the one requiring the 15NM torque.

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Completed the RT maintenance tasks. The rocker arms did not have to be adjusted after all. Three of them were at 0.2mm and the fourth was about 0.22mm. To me they do feel a bit loose however they are well within specs... I have however printed out the instructions and pictures for future reference... again thanks for all of your input.

 

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