2004 1150 RT running poorly

[cavediver]

I just bought this 2004RT. After about 500 miles, I rode to work at about 24 degrees I park and every thing went well. I get on to go home and it's hard starting I have to hold the high speed idle all the way up and give it gas to keep it running. It's been starting very quickly, not the least bit slugish until now. More information, not knowing much about the bike I wanted to see where the fuel guage light would come on. So I let the fuel run low. When there is only one bar on the graph. It's feeles like it's out of gas so I filled it up anyway. I found out with the book I just recieved that I'm on reserve at two bars, the light never came on. Now it runs very bad. When I got home I pulled the stick coil plugs they looked very good light tan sharp edegs. Now it's harder to start I took it for a short ride. Let it warm up. It seems to run better at speed, but it will not idle. I pull the plugs again and they are black, carbon fouled. I took it out again today hoping to clear it out. Now it will not take fuel in 5th or 6th it feels like your pooring gas out of a bucket. It is just stumbling. And it will not pull. Now I bought a newer bike for the fuel injection. It's great when it works, could I have an injector that stuck open? I know nothing about FI, and how do I check? A friend told me that you can use a dowel rod and if you can hear it, it's working sound too simplistic. Thanks.

 

Jack

[Quinn]

I wondering if you don't have water in your gas tank and it got into the system when you let the tank run low and left it outdoors on a cold day. Maybe the solution is as simple as using some dry gas or seafoam and filling it up.

 

Also, my '04RT low fuel light doesn't come on until the last bar has about fifteen or twenty miles on it. I understand that they are two separate systems so yours may vary from mine.

 

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[Solo6]

SEAFOAM!

 

That's the first thing to do when you buy a used ANYTHING with a gas engine.

 

 

[cavediver]

I've never used Seafoam. What does it do? I did put half a bottle of lucas injector cleaner in it, the full bottle is good for 21 gal. I think that it has a plastic fuel tank. I might take it out and give it a good cleaning to remove any water or gunk. It has been running good until now.

 

Jack

[Quinn]

Seafoam is just a brand of injector cleaner/ gas treatment. Before taking the tank off, you'll have to get the right side cover off. Once the cover is off, you can check the fuel quick disconnects and make sure you've got good pressure going toward the injectors. You will have to push in the ends of each coupling by hand after you've separated the hoses for the gas to flow through them. Let some flow into a jar and see if water separates out of it.

 

More knowledgeable people will respond to you by tomorrow and can give you better advise than me.

 

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[roger 04 rt]

I just bought this 2004RT. After about 500 miles, I rode to work at about 24 degrees I park and every thing went well. I get on to go home and it's hard starting I have to hold the high speed idle all the way up and give it gas to keep it running. It's been starting very quickly, not the least bit slugish until now. More information, not knowing much about the bike I wanted to see where the fuel guage light would come on. So I let the fuel run low. When there is only one bar on the graph. It's feeles like it's out of gas so I filled it up anyway. I found out with the book I just recieved that I'm on reserve at two bars, the light never came on. Now it runs very bad. When I got home I pulled the stick coil plugs they looked very good light tan sharp edegs. Now it's harder to start I took it for a short ride. Let it warm up. It seems to run better at speed, but it will not idle. I pull the plugs again and they are black, carbon fouled. I took it out again today hoping to clear it out. Now it will not take fuel in 5th or 6th it feels like your pooring gas out of a bucket. It is just stumbling. And it will not pull. Now I bought a newer bike for the fuel injection. It's great when it works, could I have an injector that stuck open? I know nothing about FI, and how do I check? A friend told me that you can use a dowel rod and if you can hear it, it's working sound too simplistic. Thanks.

 

Jack

 

Based on your description of running the tank low, you may have stirred up sediment and/or water in the bottom of your tank. There is a very fine filter in the tank that should keep any sediment out of the injectors. Water would get through the filter.

 

Since you're new to fuel injection I'll offer a simple description of what's going on. There's a sensor on the left-hand throttle body called the TPS. There's another sensor that measures rpm. It's on the front of the crankshaft and is called the HES. The fueling computer, called the Motronic, reads the HES and TPS and with the help of some other sensors calculates how long to turn the injectors on, usually between 1.5 and 4 mS (thousandths of a second). You can hear them click if you've got good hearing but I can tell you that they are working because you wouldn't run at all if they weren't.

 

When you lift the fast idle lever it opens the throttle, adding more air. Same as when you turn the throttle.

 

Given your other symptoms, rough running and no power or pull in high gears, I would guess that your filter is clogged or a hose in the tank has a crack in it. Perhaps your plugs have fouled because of lean mis-fire.

 

The simplest way to implicate the fuel system or to give everything but the injectors a clean bill of health is to disconnect the fuel return line going from the fuel distributor back to the tank and measure the return volume while the bike runs at idle or the lowest rpm possible. It should be about 2 liters in 60 seconds. If it does, that says your pump, filter hoses and pressure regulator are all working. Doing that is tricky since the hoses are short and the disconnects have a check valve. If its more than you feel comfortable tackling find someone to help. Here is an example: Fuel Measuring.

 

If the filter is clogged, the tank has to be removed, emptied and the innards repaired.

RB

[bdspler]

Welcome to the forum ! 1st off I got a 2005 in 2007 and I want to let you know I had a few BUGS at first! dont lose your confadence! You have a great Bike!

The only problem I have ever had and its been twice is my stick coils have gone bad! Yes ! I think thats your problem! I ran mine out of gas takin it low in the tank Many times! and NEVER changed the fuel fliter till 50k! and it was ALWAYS the stick coils!

I ve put 60 k on the bike and My only complaint is, tires go to fast and the stick coils are too whimpy!

Other than that I will take that bike anyware on this earth!

ALLWAY's LOOK at the Stick coils FIRST!

bd

sorry for the misspelled words and bad grammer! Hence the name.

[Alfred02]

If it is your stick coils then the replacement(s) will be the updated version.

They seem to be more reliable.

[roger 04 rt]

It could be stick coils and it could be HES. There are a lot of threads here that explain how to debug those problems. The stick coils are usually easier than the HES to debug.

 

If you have the capability, the fuel return volume test is not too hard either.

[dirtrider]

Morning Jack

 

As others have mentioned it could be dirt/water contamination from running the tank low. Or something else all together.

 

In any case just a couple of comments from me.

 

I seriously doubt you have a stuck injector (pretty difficult for that to happen).

 

On your COLD starting at 24°f --you usually need to manually hold the throttle twist grip open just a bit to get reliable starting with the engine staying running. Most are right on the edge of staying running even with the choke (fast idle) lever held all the way up at 24°f.

If using 10w40 oil it gets better but 20w50 dino oil is pretty darn thick at 24°f.

 

In the future (at those low temps) just place the choke on the first notch (don't hold it all the way up) then manually open the twist grip to 1/8 to 1/4 open, then start it & use the twist grip to keep it running until it will idle by itself. That is all the choke lever really does is hold the throttle open a bit (no fuel enrichment from that choke).

 

On the black spark plugs- That is perfectly normal on the BMW boxer. Those will always be black when removed in cold weather unless the engine has been operated at high speed for about 15-20 miles before removing plugs. Just one cold strat & short cold idle will turn them black.

 

Check your lower spark plugs as those can foul pretty easily in cold weather if the bike isn't ridden far & hard enough to burn the fuel & oil off of them. It will still run on just the uppers but won't cold idle worth a hoot.

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

 

In the future (at those low temps) just place the choke on the first notch (don't hold it all the way up) then manually open the twist grip to 1/8 to 1/4 open, then start it & use the twist grip to keep it running until it will idle by itself. That is all the choke lever really does is hold the throttle open a bit (no fuel enrichment from that choke).

 

 

Thanks for the good insights on the plugs after a cold start. I wouldn't have known that.

 

Althought the choke (fast idle lever) doesn't add fuel, the Motronic adds (even at 48F where I made some recent measurements) 4X the fuel for the first few seconds. There are two injector firings per combustion cycle that add to 8 mS of fuel compared to 3.5 mS at warmed up idle. Since the is 1 mS of dead time for each firing, that means 8-2 compared to 3.5-2 ... 4X the fuel. So the fuel system has to be in good condition. And the battery does too because low voltage adds to the injector dead time which makes me think that an inverter-driven power supply for the injectors and Motronic would be a good thing for cold weather bikes.

 

When I get a chance I'll try it on a really cold day here.

[4wheeldog]

Your symptoms are exactly what my "02RT did when I got water in the tank. It was enough that gas drier etc did not help. But siphoning out a half gallon out of the very bottom of the right side tank showed about a pint of liquid water. I actually poured the gas off the top (Into my truck) and dumped the water. Instant fix.

 

Our ethanol blended gas absorbs a fair amount of water, and it can fall out of suspension, or "Stratify" in cold conditions. Good luck.

[g_frey]

High speed idle? Where is it, I have never used it. Just a guess but may be the possibly clogged fuel filter inside the gas tank. Lots of fun to remove and replace take pictures as you go so you remember the correct orientation going back in. Check your hoses inside also they go bad occasionally too. The reserve usually comes on after I get to one bar on mine???

[BFish]

If it is your stick coils then the replacement(s) will be the updated version.

They seem to be more reliable.

 

had to replace mine last year with the newer and supposedly improved version.

 

good luck to the OP getting the bugs worked out.

 

[cavediver]

Thanks for all the posts. My first thought was the fuel system. I just read a post on checking the stick coils by grounding the other coils and if it stays running they should be good. I just bought new plugs and will replace them as well. As I just bought the bike I was planning on changing the oil anyway. I do know about warming the bike up to get the oil out of the oil cooler, and the oil dance. I will order the fuel lines for inside the tank. It has quite a few miles so I don't think it would hurt to clean the tank out.

Roger I will give the fuel measuring a try. As for the short hoses I might as well replace them also, then cut them to length.

dirtrider as I ride in NW Ohio in the winter 10w40 or even 5w40 is my oil of choice. And thanks for the throttle tip. When I first checked the plugs it was after my 17 mile ride home. Back in my drag race days it was WOT then hit the kill switch to read plugs.

bdspler all I can say is I can feel your pain, I can't spell it, but I can feel it. You can get a spell checker mine is named Jeannine she does complain about it though.

 

 

Jack

 

[tallman]

99% of the time it is the last thing we did.

 

I'm not sure why all of you folks are running out of gas, never a good thing, but I think you've water/sediment/gunk sucked up and in the system.

 

Try a drier or empty tank (probably best, careful of QD's in fuel lines).

Betcha it runs fine (assuming it was) with new fuel.

 

Much easier to do than all the other things so start there.

Harbor Freight sells a $10 siphon that works well for gas.

 

If your gas checks out, you'll have an empty tank.

R&R fuel filter/hoses/lines (great maintenance).

 

If you still have the problem after that then start checking but

I guess you won't.

Even if you do the maintenance done will eliminate a lot of guesswork down the road.

Best wishes.

[cavediver]

Well this was unexpected! I started tearing off the plastics to get to the tank. I had it all removed and started to look around. One more thing I forgot to mention was that on my little rides to try to clear it out, that at idle, at times it would not idle down at a stop sign until I let the clutch out a bit then it would settle down. Back to looking around I twisted the throttle and looked at the throttle bodies the left first then the right. I'm guessing that the throttle cable is supposed to be conected on both sides! The left side is ok the right side not so much. The throttle body is trash. The bellcrank is gone, missing, the cable is hanging in mid air. The shaft is so worn it has a n 1/8" play. I think I found my problem! Now I need to find a right side throttle body. At least this is something simple, not fuel injection or computer black magic. Again thanks for all the responces. I'll let you know how it goes. Still not sure why it ran ok until I parked it at work.

 

Jack

[philbytx]

TRY HERE ON EBAY!!!

Cheap as chips mate.....

 

 

[cavediver]

Thanks Phil I've already seen that. I'll probaly get it.

 

 

Jack

[biometrics]

You can get good throttle body rebuild kits from a member of this forum: Dan Cata... Find any of his posts and the link to his kits are in his tag line...

[cavediver]

Thanks biometrics, I'll look him up. It looks like bushings could be made easily enough. The tough part would be the bellcrank.

 

Jack

[cavediver]

Well the nice brown truck came today. I put the throttle body on and after a few adjustments it's running. It's 33 degrees here and after a minute of running it runs with the high idle off at about 900 RPM. Thanks dirtrider for the tip on just bringing the high idle up to the first notch and cracking the throttle to start it. I've got the cable adjusted close enough to run. I guess I'll have to get a balance tool to finish the job. I missed out on buying both throttle bodys from a member but the one I got seems tight and was cheaper. But I would rather buy from someone on the forum. Thanks again for all the replies. Time to put the plastics back on. The roads are ok no snow or ice, and I put the Concours to bed for the winter needs tires.

 

 

Jack

[tallman]

For now make a manometer and balance them.

Pointless, IMO, not to after all this.

Good luck.