RT Ergos

[RamblinGuy]

I have a new (to me, its used with 21K miles) R1200RT. Love it. MUCH smoother and more responsive than my previous 1150RT.

 

My question is about ergos. I'm 6'1". Is it my imagination, or does the 1200 have LESS legroom than the 1150? If it doesn't in fact, it feels it nevertheless. I'm starting to experience a little knee and hip stiffness these days, and looking for improvements.

 

What about lowering foot pegs? Would a commensurate lowering of foot controls be required too? Not that I'm squid-like, but would lean angles be impeded?

 

The stock ("comfort")seat on the 1150 was totally fine for me. The stock seat on the 1200 sucks. I loved the Wunderlich seat I had on my GS before I sold the bike. And it effectively raised me up on that bike vs. the torture-rack GS stock seat. But it appears the only Wunderlich seat for the new RT is a lowered one -- I want the opposite I guess, since I'm looking for greater seat-to-peg distance.

 

And what about highway pegs? Many BMW dealers don't carry them and don't acknowledge their validity. The Elf pegs look elegant (albeit mighty expensive), but flimsy? Maybe the jugs are too wide to make such pegs worthwhile anyway.

 

Any advice from this great forum of riders would be appreciated. Thanks!

[eaglemike]

Do you have the lowered seat? Or the standard seat? I'm 6'1", 31 or 32 inseam, standard seat. I usually ride with the seat in the low position for improved windscreem performance. So, do you know which seat you have?

 

all the best,

 

Mike

[Lawman]

I think it's called "getting old". I'm 6' and just got my new 05 RT. I have the same problems..I have installed the Sierra Hi-way pegs. I have the barbacks, peg lowering hardware and Cee Bailey windshield ordered..I'm gonna try my Airhawk seat cushion on the seat..I prefer the upright, feet out in front, couch with a backrest for a seat ergos of the Harley Electra Glide but the new R1200RT is just too much fun! I'm hoping to have both soon..

[BamaRider]

I'd becareful about altering any of what I call the "Big 3" that being the handlebars, pegs, or seat.

 

Most find the trio related. Change the seat, and the once comfortable peg position can now be a problem, change the handlebars and now the seat makes your butt hurt.

 

The RT has the most traditional sitting positon of the major sport touring players. Most rides in the genre have the more forward slanted riding position.

 

Once adapted to, the slanted position with feet under is the best all day position for most. It transfers weight OFF the tailbone of the feet out in front position, to the legs, abs and mid section.

 

It might be just me, and I can't speak for all, but transforming the RT's position to cruiser out in front and leaned back just wouldn't work for ME. In fact, I'd prefer the ride to be more slanted forward, because that position allows me to control the bike better. I dunno how ya gonna lean the bike in the twisties with feet out in front and the body leaned back??

 

The RT is a sport touring bike, albeit slanted to the touring end, its seating position was designed for a purpose. Make sure you give it a solid chance before making wholesale changes you might regret later, a change can causes a ripple to area where before there was none. And have you searching for other fixes.

 

I was initally uncomfortable on the Honda ST with its more forward slant the any version of the RT. But I kept riding the bike, and in a few months "trained" my body to accpet the more correct position. I ride/rode the Hondas on 5 cross country tours and 4 journeys into Canada and without so much as sheep skin on the stock saddles.

 

After riding 150k on the Hondas the last few years, the RT took getting use to. It felt odd to sit so upright on such a sporty bike.

 

I now know the purpose of the intended ride position (the Hondas). It gives the rider optimal control of the bike, with the best chance at being comfortable all day.

 

Y'all correct me, but the bars on the RT are not back to rider in stock form? Or does it just seem that way coming from the Hondas?

[dyvking]

And what about highway pegs? Many BMW dealers don't carry them and don't acknowledge their validity. The Elf pegs look elegant (albeit mighty expensive), but flimsy? Maybe the jugs are too wide to make such pegs worthwhile anyway.

The Elf-pegs are not flimsy. They are CNC machined aluminum and thus light weight. You won't want to stand on them, but the cylinders are too far forward to do that anyway. For the brief periods that one needs to stretch out and relieve the tightness in the thighs.. they are just the ticket. I like them, and they work well for me. Easy install with no permanent modification necessary. The elegant design and near-disappearing act they do when not in use is worth the money.

[Lawman]

Guy,

Your post intriques me..You say the same thing about riding position that MANY of the more experienced riders of this forum say..I think you and Shovel Stroke must have gone to school together..I've never been able to adjust to the position you describe and it seems to me like the riding position of the K1200LT, Goldwing and Electra Glide must be more comfortable for most who tour otherwise those bikes would not be so popular..Don't you think that best riding/seating position must be a very individualized thing? I often make the mistake of thinking others will like the things that I like and I've found that not necessarily to be true..

 

Thanks

Billy Hearnsberger

Joaquin, Tx

 

Thanks for your earlier lengthy response to my brother.

[SC_Jack]

Billy, you are certainly correct that one size cannot fit everyone. But, I must share with you my own experience with riding positions.

When I bought my first BMW in January of 1976 (R90S), I thought that the riding position dictated on that bike must have been invented by the Marquis de Sade. I dearly loved the bike but hated the riding position. I put bar backs on it and rode along, fat, dumb and happy but I always had a backache after riding more than 100 miles. Sold the bike a couple of years later and usually bought bikes that had a more upright position. Again, my lower back would always have a slight ache after a ride of over 100 miles. When the K100RS was introduced to the US, I bought one and again, I was back in the riding position that I had hated years before. Around that time, I met a man who was the best rider that I have ever ridden with. He explained and taught me how to relax and use this position to maximize my riding technique. The largest benefit from this new way of thinking turned out to be that my back no longer ached, no matter how many miles I rode. Today, one of my three bikes is a 1978, R100S (yes, the exact riding position that I abhored in 1976) and I enjoy the riding position on that bike more than the other two Beemers that I presently own. (and I'm a hell of lot older and heavier than I was in 1976). I have become so accustomed to this position that I have just modified my R1150R to emulate the same ergos that I have on the R100S.

Dick Franz posted a write up on this forum re. The Master Yoda Riding Position. My opinion is that it's worth your time to investigate this a little more before making too many changes to that fantastic bike that you have purchased.

Good luck!

[Lawman]

Jack,

I know you guys must be on to something..I have lower back ache everytime I ride no matter what..If I could adopt a riding position that did not cause me to have a back ache I would think I had died and gone to heaven On the RT my neck and shoulders are my biggest problem but not so much my back..Perhaps if I am persistent and just continue to ride I will adapt for the better. I'm sure gonna try..In fact I think I'm goin for a ride..I'm outta here

[BamaRider]

William- certainly a individual thing, and possible the position will never fit, but I will say it works well for most, once adapted to.

 

It is my opinion the RT has the most upright positing of any sport touring bike. It sits very much like a full on touring bike, and I don't know what else you could do to make it any more so.

 

The large touring bikes have their following. And others are free to chime in, but I wonder if they are not comfortable due to technology only? The seats on those bikes have to be some of the most researched, tampered, and tweaked in the business. Especially the GL's it has become legend.

 

The fact those bikes have such attention to the seat should say something. It has it to make the position tolerable. But those bikes don't lean like our machines, and not slick in the wind. To lean a bike like most on this board, you need the forward slant.

 

I wonder how good the RT could be, if it had slightly more agressive postion. Just a little more slant in my opinion. It has excellent suspension, falls into turns, and above anything else gives the rider excellent feedback from the road. A lot more than my 1300.

 

Don't get me wrong, I find the RT very comfortable, I can ride 1000 mile days on it without so much as a pimple, but I wonder what it would be like to sit a little more forward instead of bolt upright on the bike.

[RamblinGuy]

Thanks all for the replies and thoughtful discussion.

 

My main concern is seat-to-peg distance (i.e., feeling a little cramped to me at this point). My interest in highway pegs would be strictly for occassional, brief changes of position. I believe in the upright RT position, and its better overall weight distribution for long distance comfort. I'm not after a cruiser-like set-up.

 

Having said all that -- the 1200 stock seat isn't nearly as comforatable for me as it's 1150 predecessor. Take a look at the design: the 1200 is simply smaller and narrower. Maybe changing to a Mayer seat or whatever will help a lot, without disturbing that critical overall balance bewteen the bars, seat and pegs.

 

So now what about the "Mayer or whatever" issue. Anyone have any hands-on (or butts-on...) experience with aftermarket seats on the 1200?

 

Thanks all.

[Whip]

I wonder how good the RT could be, if it had slightly more agressive postion. Just a little more slant in my opinion. It has excellent suspension, falls into turns, and above anything else gives the rider excellent feedback from the road. A lot more than my 1300.

 

Don't get me wrong, I find the RT very comfortable, I can ride 1000 mile days on it without so much as a pimple, but I wonder what it would be like to sit a little more forward instead of bolt upright on the bike.

 

 

10/4 on that...maybe the new K1200GT is what your talking about but we haven't seen one yet. The FJR is close...

 

I've found raising the seat on the RT gives you a more aggressive riding position ....

 

Larry

[CraCol]

So now what about the "Mayer or whatever" issue. Anyone have any hands-on (or butts-on...) experience with aftermarket seats on the 1200?

 

I have a Bill Mayer on my R12RT and it fits great... I'd recommend the custom seat route as it gets built to fit you.. On the highway pegs, I'm running the ELF (or Shahra) pegs and love the extra room they give you, to stretch out..

[Jon_M]

But it appears the only Wunderlich seat for the new RT is a lowered one -- I want the opposite I guess, since I'm looking for greater seat-to-peg distance.

If you download the pdf Wunderlich catalog from Santa Cruz BMW, you will find more than one aftermarket seat for the R12RT.

[Highway41]

Like you, I wanted more room between the seat and pegs. Spent the money for one inch lower shocks and the peg lowering kit and use the seat in the high position. Makes me feel more like I sitting on da bike instead of in it and gets me up in the wind a little more.

Couldn't hack the stock seat so I went with Sergents; they are local and recovered my seat. It is a little firm but mucho better than either the standard or low, comfort bimmer butt rests.

[AZRTRDR]

If you cannot modify your bike to fit your personal physique then half of the fun is gone.

I am 6'6" and 270# so I know discomfort on bikes. I never could get my 05 ST1300 comfortable.

To me the R12RT is a much better bike but still not perfect.I have the Suburban Machinery peg lowering kit install and this, along with their elongated shifter lever for my size thirteens, has made a vast improvement. You do occasionaly scrape a peg or two but nothing like the same kit on the ST1300 did.

I have also tried the bar back kit but it is currently not installed. I have short arms for my height and thought that they would help with the shoulder pain but they did not.

I believe that the pain is caused by the sweep angle of the grips being to acute. While straightening this angle out furthe would help, the BMW's slant is more comfortable,for me, than the ST's were.

I have a Bill Mayer customized seat that is built up with a much denser foam than the factory seat, the factory's short coming as far as I am concerned.

Today,01-09, I am expecting the tall, heated, Wunderlich seat to arrive. I have high hopes, as well as high cost, for it. While the Mayer seat is comfortable, 800 mile day so far, it does not appeal to me as far as asthetics.

I will try out this seat before try the bar backs again. They are only a twenty minute job.

Some people do not understand what we taller riders go through to make a bike fit us. On size does not fit all!

Now,for a heavier duty spring for the rear, ESA, shock.

[ducati448]

Please post your thoughts on the Wunderlich seat, considering one for mine.

[AZRTRDR]

 

Reference the Wunderlich seat.

It looks to be quite well made and is very attractive on the bike.

The dealer thought that the heated seat had it's own switch, which it does not, so I sent it back as my bike is not so equipped. I have a non-heated one on order. BMW Sante Cruz is sure easy to deal with so far.

As to feel, it felt wonderfull to me. The stock seat is just tipped to far foward for my comfort. It's main problem though is that the foam is much to soft.

It feels OK on the showroom or during a short test ride but it could not stand up to the test of time, for me.

These two issues appear to have been addressed by Wunderlich.

It is unknown when the high/unheated seats will be in. The dealer does not even have a price on them yet. The GS seats are a $140 difference between heated/ non..