1150 Rockster varies engine speed even at constant open throttle

[dan cata]

Hi all,

 

I am wondering if anyone got this and what was the fault.

 

I have a friend that has a 04' r1150r Rockster. So it has 2 spark plugs/cylinder. The valved have been adjusted, TB sync has been done. New air filter and gas filter. Fresh oil and oil filter. No errors on the GS911 diagnose unit. The lambda probe chart looks nice. The bike had no CCP but I have mounted a wire in there for the 86-30 pins.

 

The thing is that the engine rpm tends to rise even if I keep the throttle at a steady point. If I have it @ 3000 rpm it stays there for some time and then it rises to ~ 4k rpm without doing nothing.

 

That and it has the surging, mostly ~ 2500 rpm in 3rd gear.

 

Forgot to mention that the throttle seems a little stiff. Could that be from the cable distributor? Also, does it look like an air leak? the bike only has about 50k kms and it really looks like brand new

 

Dan.

[Tobias]

You have addressed the common causes for surging.

 

Dan, was it you, or the owner who performed the valve adjustment and throttle body balance? If it was the owner maybe you could go back in and check for correct adjustment. I found out the hard way that a very precise valve adjustment works wonders.

 

I'm wondering if the stiff throttle cable complaint affects achieving a good throttle body balance.

[dan cata]

It was me. I did it the way I do it on all other bikes and each time it works just time. The rpm rising by 1000 it a bit much for an air leak IMHO, that is why I am going to start with the throttle cables first. The stiff throttle is a +1 reason.

 

Will keep you updated if that solves anything.

 

Dan.

[Tobias]

Another not so obvious issue might be that it is an 8 year old bike with only has 50 km on it. Fuel sitting for an extended length of time is going to create some problems.

 

The injectors may need to be sent out for cleaning if they are gummed up.

The hoses could be cracked.

The rubber caps on the throttle bodies could be deteriorated.

[szurszewski]

Another not so obvious issue might be that it is an 8 year old bike with only has 50 km on it. Fuel sitting for an extended length of time is going to create some problems.

 

The injectors may need to be sent out for cleaning if they are gummed up.

The hoses could be cracked.

The rubber caps on the throttle bodies could be deteriorated.

 

The OP wrote 50k kms - I assume he meant 50,000kms. Of course, that's still a bit under 4k miles a year, so fuel might be an issue.

[dirtrider]

Morning Dan

 

Did you do a TPS re-learn to eliminate that? If not start there.

 

On the RPM gain issue-- Find out why it has a stiff throttle. If the throttle is stiff when initial force is put on the throttle it starts off at that position but engine vibration & system friction could be allowing the cable force to change allowing the throttle plates to slightly open farther. Until you find & eliminate the stiff throttle no use in chasing other things.

 

On the surging issue-- That could be a lot of things but on the twin spark a failing stick coil would be at the top of my list. Can you find another twin spark to swap stick coils with as a test.

 

Otherwise, maybe a fuel injector with a bad spray pattern.

 

Even a lazy o2 sensor can cause a surging issue so try riding the bike with the o2 disconnected (sometimes the GS-911 won't show a lazy o2 sensor at road load response).

 

[dan cata]

Another not so obvious issue might be that it is an 8 year old bike with only has 50 km on it. Fuel sitting for an extended length of time is going to create some problems.

 

The injectors may need to be sent out for cleaning if they are gummed up.

The hoses could be cracked.

The rubber caps on the throttle bodies could be deteriorated.

 

 

He rides the bike almost every weekend so there is no issue with the gas. I thought about injector cleaning, but made them spray today and the pattern looks really nice, just like on mine after I cleaned them. There are no cracked hoses on it, the caps are fine too. Generally the bike looks really good, except for the side cases that have a little discoloration because of sitting in the sun sometimes.

 

 

The OP wrote 50k kms - I assume he meant 50,000kms. Of course, that's still a bit under 4k miles a year, so fuel might be an issue.

 

That's right, 50.000 kilometers on the odometer. Fuel is fresh, the filter has been changed ~ 2 month ago.

 

Morning Dan

 

Did you do a TPS re-learn to eliminate that? If not start there.

 

On the RPM gain issue-- Find out why it has a stiff throttle. If the throttle is stiff when initial force is put on the throttle it starts off at that position but engine vibration & system friction could be allowing the cable force to change allowing the throttle plates to slightly open farther. Until you find & eliminate the stiff throttle no use in chasing other things.

 

On the surging issue-- That could be a lot of things but on the twin spark a failing stick coil would be at the top of my list. Can you find another twin spark to swap stick coils with as a test.

 

Otherwise, maybe a fuel injector with a bad spray pattern.

 

Even a lazy o2 sensor can cause a surging issue so try riding the bike with the o2 disconnected (sometimes the GS-911 won't show a lazy o2 sensor at road load response).

 

Yes, did the TPS relearn, pulled fuse # 5, twist the throttle, everything.

 

I fixed the stiff throttle. What I did was to take off both TB's, clean them and put them back together. The throttle twists nicely now. It was the R/H cable that had the issue, but all is fine now. I do hear some dry on dry rubbing from the splitter box, will open that one tomorrow and give it a clean and some grease around the middle of the pulley.

 

I guess I could take the coils off a 1200GSA and swap and see how that works. As I remember, the coils have been changed in the past, I doubt more than 15k km's have passed since. Would the bike run fine in case of a bad coil?

 

Is there a way to disconnect the O2 sensor easily or just from the connector? When the bike had no CCP, the chart for the O2 displayed on the GS911 interface was a straight line, now, when I connected the 86-30 pins, the chart is the /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ normal stuff, like described on their website. Disconnecting the O2 sensor would make the mixture richer, right?

 

Forgot to mention that the bike still has the catalytic convertor (and the lambda probe) and an empty Leo Vince exhaust. Should I be trying different CCP setups before going in further?

 

Dan.

[roger 04 rt]

Dan,

Disconnecting the O2 or swapping coding plugs doesn't create a rich condition on 1150s.

 

Here is a plot of AFR with the O2 disconnected, with and without BoosterPlug.

 

[dan cata]

Did not get to disconnecting the O2 sensor yet, but I did notice something... The L/H TB, where it connects to the black plastic tube that goes into the airbox... that connection is not very tight and I can feel a little movement between the TB and the air tube. It's not much, but it is there. The owner told me that he once got a backfire on that one, so loud, that the tube disconnected by itself. What I did was to spray some WD40 around it and see if the idle speed drops, but it did not.

 

So I guess I can rule that one out, right?

 

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Morning Dan

 

Any air leaks on the air box side of the throttle plate can allow dirt into the intake but shouldn't effect engine operation. That side is already open to atmosphere through the open air box intake.'

 

It's air leaks BETWEEN the throttle plate & intake valves that can effect engine operation.

 

[dan cata]

You are right, but the connection between the TB and the engine is tight.

 

Will try to disconnect the O2 sensor today and see what changes.

 

Also, the diagnose unit has the data logging function. Too bad I don't know how to interpret the results... Or what values to consider when logging.

 

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Morning Dan

 

We need to back to what the bike is STILL doing, what you have done so far, & any changes noted from each of things you have done so far.

 

When the threads stretch out like this it is easy to miss an important comment or reaction to something done.

 

 

[dan cata]

Today I went and adjusted the rocker arms to ~ 0.1 mm on both sides and also re-did the valves. When I took the spark plugs off, the upper ones looked pretty worn, there was a huge gap between electrodes and the lower ones were soaked in oil. Not sure if that is OK or not. Do they fire if they have oil on them? Anyway, ordered 4 new ones and will have them in tomorrow.

 

Here are some crappy pics took with the phone:

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

Dan.

[dan cata]

Replaced the spark plugs and the bike acts the same. Then disconnected the O2 sensor and the bike acted the same

 

Will get one Monday morning and report back after fitting it.

 

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Morning Dan

 

A couple of thoughts---

 

If that bike has a evap system (some European offerings didn't) disconnect that & plug off the TB nipples. A plugged evap system could be adding in raw fuel to the TB's.

 

If you can monitor the TPS voltage (or use a GS-911 on the system to monitor TPS angle) see if the TPS voltage/angle stays the same as the RPM increases. If so then your issue is probably not cables or bowden box related. If you can track the TPS increase as the engine speeds up then look into cable & bowden box.

 

 

Have you checked the motor oil for signs of raw fuel? If raw fuel in the oil that can get past the rings as the engine heats up & raise the RPM's.

 

[dan cata]

Hi DR,

 

The bike has caps on it. I think the evap are just for USA, never seen a bike with that system over here, and I have seen quite a few BMW bikes

 

About the diagnose unit, what you are saying is that I should plot the TPS voltage and the rpm and see if the graphs are somehow parallel. I can do that. In case they are not, I can swap the TPS with another one I have in the garage...

 

I don't think there is any issue with the bowden box, since when I connect the Harmonizer to the TB's, the vacuum increases nicely with the RPM, so I think I can rule out any bowden related issue (which I cannot seem to get out of the tray since I cannot undo the "choke" cable on the L/H side, sicne it has heated grips).

 

There is no trace of gas in the oil either.

 

Dan.

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Dan

 

No, nothing fancy, just verify that the TPS voltages is steady & doesn't change (at all) as the RPM's increase by themselves.

 

If steady then the throttle plates (at least L/H one) are not moving.

 

If the TPS moves then something is changing the throttle plate position (like tight cable or bowden box issue)

 

[dan cata]

Verified that and it's not the TPS. When I constantly open the throttle, the GS911 shows a nicely curved graph.

 

what I also did was to disconnect the O2 sensor and the bike works the same So I am going to replace that one today and see how it goes.

 

Dan.

[roger 04 rt]

Hi Dan, Attach your GS-911, then go to RealTime Values, select to Log data. Log everything, that's the default. Then Stop Logging, and save the file to an Excel CSV. From there you can look at RPM, TPS angle, and Injection Time. Also you will have logged when the tank vent is open and when it's Closed Loop. And some other stuff including spark timing and dwell.

 

But look closely a plot of RPM, TPS and Injection Time. I'd like to see when the RPM is growing, is the TPS angle changing and is the injector pulse width growing (and is it closed loop while this is happening.

 

I'd be happy to look at the file if you send it to me by email. I'm pretty familiar with looking at and plotting the data.

 

RB

[dirtrider]

Verified that and it's not the TPS. When I constantly open the throttle, the GS911 shows a nicely curved graph.

 

what I also did was to disconnect the O2 sensor and the bike works the same So I am going to replace that one today and see how it goes.

 

Dan.

 

Morning Dan

 

Why an I getting the impression you are talking apples & I am

hearing oranges.

 

You first talked of the engine RPM increasing BY ITSELF but in most of your replies you are talking about opening the throttle & TPS curves. All things that point to you not holding the throttle steady.

 

What exactly are you looking for engine performance or runability wise?

 

[dan cata]

Hi DR, roger and all,

 

So the main issue here is that when I start the bike, I let it idle, then twist the grip slowly and get the rpm slowly to 1500, 1800, 2000, 2200 and then I keep it there (the throttle) and the rpm starts to grow by itself until 2700 2800 and then it just stays there. This is happening while the bike is standing on the center stand.

 

When riding it, this feels like small power boom, if you like. The bike is rideable but it has this issue that is annoying.

 

What I did today was to replace the O2 sensor with a new one. Sadly, this did not cure the problem and the bike feels just the same. Also tested this while the cat and the end muffler was off the bike and it is the same.

 

@Roger, not sure what you mean by tank vent open and closed loop. The bike is an european model and it does not have the charcoal canister. As for the closed loop, I have made a wire jumper and put it instead of the CCP (the bike had no ccp when it got to me). With the jumper wire, the O2 graphic looks like /\\\/\/\/\/\\/ which I think is normal. Without it, it would just be an straight line in the middle of the plot.

 

Do the logs need to be taken while actually riding the bike or can I have them made inside the garage? Also, should I be varying the rpm from 1100 to let's say 4k so that the issue gets recorded?

 

Thanks,

Dan.

[dan cata]

There is one more thing that I have not checked, but it is less likely the cause... the bowden splitter box for the TB cables.

 

Why I don't think that would be the problem? When I connect the harmonizer to the TB's and rev up from idle to 4k rpm, there is not a big difference in vacuum between the TB's, and the small difference is not between 2200-2700 rmp interval.

 

I would like however to take that one off and see if there is anything broken inside, but I am unable to take the choke cable off because the bike has heated handles and I cannot pull the L/H plastic handle enough to get the clearance to get the plastic cover off.

 

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Dan

 

Ok, that helps us understand what is going on.

 

First thing to try is using the GS-911 to monitor the TPS when you bring the RPM's up to 2200 then HOLD THE THROTTLE STEADY.

You should see the TPS voltage increase as you increase the throttle to 2200 RPM's. Once you stop moving the throttle the TPS should hold constant. (does it?)

 

Once you get the RPM to 2200 & hold the throttle steady the TPS should also hold steady. If it does then your RPM gain is probably not the throttle cable of bowden box. If the TPS DOES increase with the throttle held steady then something is creeping in your throttle system.

 

If your problem isn't a creeping throttle cable or bowden box friction issue then look at things like the lower spark plugs being fouled from idle then finally cleaning off & starting to fire once the engine RPM is elevated to the 2200 range.

 

Or look for maybe lazy stick coil or maybe even a lazy fuel injector.

 

Something is changing to increase the RPM with a steady held throttle.

 

So, it is either getting more air, or getting more fuel, or igniting the existing cylinder mixture better.

 

If your throttle isn't creeping (steady TPS) then trap that data Roger wants. I'll bet he can spot an issue in your fueling if that is the problem.

 

[dan cata]

Afternoon Dan

 

Ok, that helps us understand what is going on.

 

First thing to try is using the GS-911 to monitor the TPS when you bring the RPM's up to 2200 then HOLD THE THROTTLE STEADY.

You should see the TPS voltage increase as you increase the throttle to 2200 RPM's. Once you stop moving the throttle the TPS should hold constant. (does it?)

 

I have done that and the TPS signal stays smooth and stops. What I also did was to just switch the key on and see the TPS plot while the engine is not started and twisting the throttle. The result was a nice curbed line.

 

Once you get the RPM to 2200 & hold the throttle steady the TPS should also hold steady. If it does then your RPM gain is probably not the throttle cable of bowden box. If the TPS DOES increase with the throttle held steady then something is creeping in your throttle system.

 

If your problem isn't a creeping throttle cable or bowden box friction issue then look at things like the lower spark plugs being fouled from idle then finally cleaning off & starting to fire once the engine RPM is elevated to the 2200 range.

 

The spark plugs are new, changed them last Saturday.

 

Or look for maybe lazy stick coil or maybe even a lazy fuel injector.

 

One stick coil has been changed in the past, the other one is still the original one. I am afraid I don't have an extra set to swap, but I can borrow a set from a friend's 1200GS as a last resort...

 

Something is changing to increase the RPM with a steady held throttle.

 

So, it is either getting more air, or getting more fuel, or igniting the existing cylinder mixture better.

 

If your throttle isn't creeping (steady TPS) then trap that data Roger wants. I'll bet he can spot an issue in your fueling if that is the problem.

 

My responses inline.

 

Thanks,

Dan.

[roger 04 rt]

Dan, DR has it right. If you can simulate the problem on the stand, that's good. Just have the bike running and the log logging. Then we will see if the TPS angle is changing, or the injector on time is changing. What I'm going to look to see is:

 

Is the TPS angle changing,

Is the Injector On-Time changing

Is the Bike changing is Closed Loop state (meaning is it using the fuel table or the O2 sensor)

Is some other sensor changing value (Oil, Air, Barometer, Voltage)

 

Just log everything.

 

If you can see the TPS moving while the RPM is creeping up, that will tell you something about where to look.

[dan cata]

Will log and get back tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

 

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Dan

 

Just because new lower plugs were installed doesn't mean they aren't oil fouling at idle or with engine stopped.

 

Try starting the engine cold for about 30 seconds, the shut it off & allow to cool. Then remove the lower plugs & look for signs of oil fouling.

 

[roger 04 rt]

Dan,

Here's another possibility for a malfunctioning sensor: TPS.

 

When you turn the throttle, make sure that the TPS signal is changing. If it didn't, and you opened the throttle, the mixture would be lean but rpm would increase. Then the O2 and Closed loop would eventually richen the mixture, leading to further RPM increase.

 

RB

[Galactic Greyhound]

Dan,

Here's another possibility for a malfunctioning sensor: TPS. ......

 

RB

 

Another possibility may be the HES Trigger Unit.

 

If the HES pulse train (ignition and/or fuel) is irregularly incomplete i.e. there are occasional missing pulses, the Motronic fuelling and/or ignition will be affected.

 

Is this detectable on the GS-911?

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

Dan,

Here's another possibility for a malfunctioning sensor: TPS. ......

 

RB

 

Another possibility may be the HES Trigger Unit.

 

If the HES pulse train (ignition and/or fuel) is irregularly incomplete i.e. there are occasional missing pulses, the Motronic fuelling and/or ignition will be affected.

 

Is this detectable on the GS-911?

 

 

The GS-911 will read and display the error log for the HES sensor if detected by the Motronic. Based on the collection of symptoms, the slowly building RPMs, I think I'd look elsewhere first and keep the HES in mind.

 

Dan,

Have you read out the error log from the Motronic?

[roger 04 rt]

Hi DR, roger and all,

 

So the main issue here is that when I start the bike, I let it idle, then twist the grip slowly and get the rpm slowly to 1500, 1800, 2000, 2200 and then I keep it there (the throttle) and the rpm starts to grow by itself until 2700 2800 and then it just stays there. This is happening while the bike is standing on the center stand. ...

 

Thanks,

Dan.

 

Dan, Please do exactly this with the log running. Then after it's been at 2800 for a while go back to idle for a minute, the shut off the logging and save the file. I think that will get enough data. Roger

[dan cata]

Dan,

Here's another possibility for a malfunctioning sensor: TPS. ......

 

RB

 

Another possibility may be the HES Trigger Unit.

 

If the HES pulse train (ignition and/or fuel) is irregularly incomplete i.e. there are occasional missing pulses, the Motronic fuelling and/or ignition will be affected.

 

Is this detectable on the GS-911?

 

 

I doubt it's the HES unit. That one either works or does not.

[dan cata]

Dan,

Here's another possibility for a malfunctioning sensor: TPS. ......

 

RB

 

Another possibility may be the HES Trigger Unit.

 

If the HES pulse train (ignition and/or fuel) is irregularly incomplete i.e. there are occasional missing pulses, the Motronic fuelling and/or ignition will be affected.

 

Is this detectable on the GS-911?

 

 

The GS-911 will read and display the error log for the HES sensor if detected by the Motronic. Based on the collection of symptoms, the slowly building RPMs, I think I'd look elsewhere first and keep the HES in mind.

 

Dan,

Have you read out the error log from the Motronic?

 

Yes I did, and it shows the 2 HES sensors as errors, but it always shows them if the engine is not cranked before reading the errors. Once spinning, it does not show them anymore.

 

Dan.

[roger 04 rt]

Morning Dan, yup, that's normal for HES and GS-911. Have you been able to collect the log file? RB

[dan cata]

Yes, here is the log link to - https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D7881463_749_798535630

 

Here's a link to a video I took while logging.

 

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D7881463_749_798524488

 

 

Dan.

[roger 04 rt]

Dan, Just looking through the video now--well done. What is the RPM that you're stopping at before it heads toward 4K RPM?

 

Downloading the file now? RB

[roger 04 rt]

Dan, Just looking through the video now--well done. What is the RPM that you're stopping at before it heads toward 4K RPM?

 

Downloading the file now? RB

 

Let me know the RPM you've stopped at. I've already got it plotted. I notice that the barometric pressure is low, is it cloudy or raining there today?

 

Battery/alternator look fine ...

 

Also I can see that you had the cold start lever on at first TPS=0.64 and that you had it off by the end TPS = 0.32.

 

In the plot, I have some thoughts but would like to hear from you about the RPM you stopped at and then the RPM it went to on it's own. I think you stopped at about 2500 rpm.

[roger 04 rt]

Dan, I've looked at and plotted the first of the 6 cycles in the log file. Everything looks good (IAT, Oil Temp, Battery, Inject time, Spark Time, Dwell, Open/Closed Loop, etc.), except for the TPS sensor. The TPS is drifting from where you stop it at 5.76 degrees (2700 RPM) to 8 degrees open (3800 RPM). Have a look at the chart below.

 

So it seems there are two possibilities:

 

1. When you stop turning the throttle, the butterfly and TPS are opening another 2.24 degrees on their own. A tiny amount but enough for the Motronic to respond to.

 

2. When you stop turning the throttle, the butterfly stops moving but the TPS moves another 2.24 degrees on its own.

 

Since the injector pulses (not plotted) remain steady at 2.43 to 2.5 milliseconds throughout this time, it must be case 1 that the butterfly and TPS are both opening a bit.

 

I'm guessing you have a sticky shaft somewhere that air pressure is opening just a tiny bit after you stop turning the throttle.

 

Pretty amazing isn't it that another 2.24 degrees takes the RPM from 2600/2700 to 3800? That peak on the chart at 5.76 degrees is pretty pronounced.

 

RB

 

PS: With both a GS-911 AND an LC-1 some of the diagnoses are pretty straightforward.

 

 

 

[roger 04 rt]

40 thousandths of an inch movement (1 mm) is about the amount the throttle pulley would have to move for 2.24 degrees.

 

And from the data, it's taking a relatively long time to move that 40 thousandths, about 4.3 seconds. So this will be pretty hard to see.

 

You've got a good problem!

[roger 04 rt]

Something is acting like a spring, being compressed when the throttle is turned and then slowly releasing 40 thousandths. Could the throttle cable be loading the fast idle spring ever so slightly in the Bowden box? And then when the throttle stops moving that spring unloads?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Roger / Dan

 

Usually when something in the throttle is acting like a spring it is one of the cables that is not fully seated & the cable housing stretched. The spring is actually the throttle return spring(s) trying to seat the cable housing under tension.

 

But, you would think a spring type action wouldn't migrate once the throttle movement load stabilized.

 

From looking at your plot it looks more like something is sticking then slowly moving over either time or from engine vibration.

 

Dan, what happens if you overshoot the 2200 RPM point for a short period (like 3500 RPM) then relax the throttle position from higher back to 2200. Does the RPM then drop off to below 2200. If it still increases that should eliminate both a spring type action or stickiness.

 

[roger 04 rt]

DR, As soon as he stops moving the throttle, it immediately moves linearly to the next value over a period of 4.3 seconds (you can see the ramp). It is a tiny movement I think. Since it is a movement of increasing throttle, something is getting loaded, no? Could be the cable itself being loaded and then relaxing due to friction? He sent 6 examples in the file and they all do the same thing. RB

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Roger

 

I saw that in your plot.

 

You would think a spring type action would not move once the throttle stopped as that springiness would be there & loaded through the entire throttle up.

 

That movement once the throttle is stopped reacts more like something sticking then letting go. Might still be some spring type action but without the stickiness the springiness would have nothing to slowly move once stopped.

 

Be interesting to see what it acted like if the RPM's were brought to 2200 & held using only the choke lever. Might take adjusting that a bit higher but that would eliminate the main throttle cable & twist grip.

 

[roger 04 rt]

I agree that it takes stickiness and springiness in combination. The amount of movement is so small it will take some good sleuthing.

[dan cata]

Hi all,

 

I think I have good news. I was at the garage and read the reply about the TPS so I changed it to another one that I had in the garage. It seems to me that the issue has been fixed, but I could be mistaking...

 

Roger, if it is not too much to ask, could you please have a look at this last set of logs? With the new TPS installed?

 

https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D7881463_749_798838061

 

Thanks,

Dan.

[roger 04 rt]

Dan, Sure, I'll be back to you shortly. RB

[roger 04 rt]

Dan,

I think it is still happening but less. Look at the points starting with time 43672 here is:

 

TPS sequence: 5.44, 5.44, 5.44, 6.08, 7.36 (open almost 2 degrees in the last two points)

RPM sequence: 2400, 2650, 2700, 2700, 3250

 

If you need a graph I will but I think you can see it if you look hard.

RB

[dan cata]

I see, so that means that I have to take off the bowden splitter box and see what's inside it. The L/H TB is in perfect condition, no ticking noise and no movement in the pulley, otherwise I would have repaired it a long time ago

 

There is still the question of how do I take off the choke cable... I cannot pull the handle enough to get it out because of the wires going to the heated grip...

 

Thanks,

Dan.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Dan

 

If you just can't pull the grip rubber back far enough to get to the lever screw. (usually I can)

 

Maybe unbolt the entire L/H handlebar then move it so there is lots of slack in the choke cable. That should allow the bowden box to slide out far enough to unhook the cable at the bowden box.

 

[MichiganBob]

I'm sorry this thread is at your expense Dan but it is pretty darn interesting. I am anxious to hear what the solution is.

 

Bob