buzzy grips, pegs and seat

[Uncle Beemer]

2004 1150RT 40K miles. Developed a rough idle and buzziness coming back from Sedalia. Took it to my independent wrench who adjusted valves, TB synch and adjusted the throttle position sensor. Plugs are new. He did advise me to run a couple tanks with Seafoam thru it as he saw a bit of carbon build up. Anything else that would contribute to aforementioned buzziness? I don't remember it being this buzzy in the early days.

[roger 04 rt]

Cylinder to cylinder power balance has a lot to do with buzziness. Adjusting the TBs and valves balances the air going into each cylinder. What makes the fuel equal? Well matched fuel injector flow rate and spray pattern. You can't adjust adjust them but you can have them cleaned and tested.

[Uncle Beemer]

Cylinder to cylinder power balance has a lot to do with buzziness. Adjusting the TBs and valves balances the air going into each cylinder. What makes the fuel equal? Well matched fuel injector flow rate and spray pattern. You can't adjust adjust them but you can have them cleaned and tested.

 

 

Do you mean cleaned as in physically removing them and cleaning them or running an injector cleaner in the fuel?

[roger 04 rt]

Try injector cleaner in the tank first--say Techron Concentrate. I did and my bike ran better, idled faster. But then while I was fixing the fuel tank plumbing I sent them out. The report said one had a bad spray pattern and they were 4% mismatched. After they were within 2%--so said the report. The bike seems to run smoother.

 

Was out today cruising at 6000 to 6500 rpm to help the Motronic fill in the high rpm part of the Adaptation Table. Only a very light buzz which I might take out if I tweaked the right-hand cable adjuster. Not sure I'll make the effort.

[Uncle Beemer]

4% doesn't seem like much to me. I'm gonna run the injection cleaner thru and see what happens. Thanks for your help.

[realshelby]

Stick coils! I may be paranoid ( along with my other mental issues of course ) but that is a bit like my '04 was acting when my first stick coil was going bad.

[dirtrider]

Morning

 

You didn't give us a vehicle speed or engine RPM that your buzziness appears at.

 

If at high engine RPM then bizziness is usually mechanical not valve or TB sync induced.

 

There is a basic (normal) engine disturbance in the 3800-4800 RPM range that is inherent to the BMW 2 cylinder boxer design.

 

How tightly you hold the handle bars, how much foot pressure on the foot pegs, things bolted to the handle bars can all effect the riders perceived engine & chassis buzz.

 

The problem you are going to have is determining if your buzz is normal boxer buzz or there is something else going on.

 

So, start by making sure all the bolts that attach the engine are tight, that the alternator bolts are tight, that the handle bar bolts are tight, that the exhaust system isn't grounding out to the center stand, or something else, etc.

 

Next, get the bike up to the speed that you feel the buzz the most then pull the clutch in & drop the engine RPM's & see how much buzz stays & how much goes away with the engine RPM drop.

 

It has been reported by some that a high engine oil level has contributed to engine buzziness on the BMW boxer. I haven't ever been able to prove that myself but if your oil level is at the top or way above the center of the sight glass you might try letting a bit of oil out as a test.

 

Other things that can contribute to a NEW or MORE EXTREME drive train buzz is worn clutch splines allowing the clutch disk to run a bit off center. (on this the Buzz stays with engine RPM not vehicle speed)

 

Or drive shaft U joints starting to get loose (for this the Buzz stays with vehicle speed not engine RPM)

 

Or on your twin spark 1150 a stick coil starting to degrade can cause higher RPM higher engine load engine disturbance that can appear as a form of buzziness.

 

Sometimes you can have the normal BMW boxer buzz but have things like a wheel balanced issue amplify the problem so it feels stronger or different.

 

The biggest things I have found over the years on the BMW boxer buzz issue when a rider says it is worse now than it used to be is:

 

-The rider has become more used to the bike so is riding it faster than when he first got it. If that bike is ridden in the 4-5 K range there will be basic boxer buzz.

 

-As the rider gets more use to the bike they tune into things like shakes, buzzes, & surging. Once tuned into a buzz it will stand out like a sore you know what. Same with a surge, noise, or other disturbance.

 

[Uncle Beemer]

Morning

 

You didn't give us a vehicle speed or engine RPM that your buzziness appears at.

 

If at high engine RPM then bizziness is usually mechanical not valve or TB sync induced.

 

There is a basic (normal) engine disturbance in the 3800-4800 RPM range that is inherent to the BMW 2 cylinder boxer design.

 

How tightly you hold the handle bars, how much foot pressure on the foot pegs, things bolted to the handle bars can all effect the riders perceived engine & chassis buzz.

 

The problem you are going to have is determining if your buzz is normal boxer buzz or there is something else going on.

 

So, start by making sure all the bolts that attach the engine are tight, that the alternator bolts are tight, that the handle bar bolts are tight, that the exhaust system isn't grounding out to the center stand, or something else, etc.

 

Next, get the bike up to the speed that you feel the buzz the most then pull the clutch in & drop the engine RPM's & see how much buzz stays & how much goes away with the engine RPM drop.

 

It has been reported by some that a high engine oil level has contributed to engine buzziness on the BMW boxer. I haven't ever been able to prove that myself but if your oil level is at the top or way above the center of the sight glass you might try letting a bit of oil out as a test.

 

Other things that can contribute to a NEW or MORE EXTREME drive train buzz is worn clutch splines allowing the clutch disk to run a bit off center. (on this the Buzz stays with engine RPM not vehicle speed)

 

Or drive shaft U joints starting to get loose (for this the Buzz stays with vehicle speed not engine RPM)

 

Or on your twin spark 1150 a stick coil starting to degrade can cause higher RPM higher engine load engine disturbance that can appear as a form of buzziness.

 

Sometimes you can have the normal BMW boxer buzz but have things like a wheel balanced issue amplify the problem so it feels stronger or different.

 

The biggest things I have found over the years on the BMW boxer buzz issue when a rider says it is worse now than it used to be is:

 

-The rider has become more used to the bike so is riding it faster than when he first got it. If that bike is ridden in the 4-5 K range there will be basic boxer buzz.

 

-As the rider gets more use to the bike they tune into things like shakes, buzzes, & surging. Once tuned into a buzz it will stand out like a sore you know what. Same with a surge, noise, or other disturbance.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks DR. The bike is buzzy throughout the RPM range. It is engine related as I can disengage the clutch and rev the engine, vibes will go up or down as engine speed increases or decreases. In a similar thread you posted very much the same response http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=797318#Post797318. It is not evident what was done to remedy the situation. I'm hoping the OP will post his outcome.

[4wheeldog]

I am going to bet stick coil, until you confirm otherwise. If one is bad, I would replace both.....The new ones are reputed to be more reliable.

[Uncle Beemer]

I am going to bet stick coil, until you confirm otherwise. If one is bad, I would replace both.....The new ones are reputed to be more reliable.

 

I've read perhaps 75 posts here and elsewhere, not much is said about the buzzing that I'm experiencing. However, it's worth checking out.

[dirtrider]

Uncle Beemer

 

If it buzzes in every gear at the same engine RPM (range) try riding in 4th gear to well above the buzz period then while holding the throttle steady (don't let off) just hit the kill switch & coast back through the buzz period. If it still buzzes then your problem is strictly mechanical. If it goes completely away then your problem is more than likely in the coils or something causing a severe power mis-match side to side.

 

[Uncle Beemer]

Uncle Beemer

 

If it buzzes in every gear at the same engine RPM (range) try riding in 4th gear to well above the buzz period then while holding the throttle steady (don't let off) just hit the kill switch & coast back through the buzz period. If it still buzzes then your problem is strictly mechanical. If it goes completely away then your problem is more than likely in the coils or something causing a severe power mis-match side to side.

 

I'll try that over the weekend. I'll post the result. Thanks.

[1springer]

FWIW -

 

I have nearly the same problem (increases with increasing engine RPM) with my 04 except mine idles okay and the "buzz" started at 18K miles I've had two different shops look into the problem and had them due what most have suggested, coils, plugs, TBs, fittings, bolts, additives, etc., No change, except maybe a little worse with additional miles, now at 21.5K. Right or wrong I decided to ride it until it fails or until the 24K service when I'll make the decision to either start taking things apart or trade in on a 1200RT or maybe a new Triumph.

 

I would be very interested in what you find out about your 04.

 

[Alfred02]

It's a boxer, 2 cylinder engine which will give you a little bit of a buzz.

From the sound of it, yours would do well with a carefully adjusted synchronization.

Do NOT assume that a dealer will do this as careful as an enthusiastic owner. They work on a profit margin and would simply not have the time to do this.

The bike has to be fully warmed up, i.e ridden with the fairing removed and then 2 fans pointed at the cylinders for cooling during the tuning.

From personal experience, the 04 1150RT benefits immensely in smoothness from a careful balancing.

[Easyrider5258 (Mark)]

Hi,

 

Once you have worked through all the the above suggestions, if you still have vibes, which may now be down to "Normal" boxer engine vibes try these, improved / hid the normal bar vibes on mine;

 

http://www.casporttouring.com/cst/motorcycle/GRIPPUP/GPSMALL.html

 

 

.

 

[ElevenFifty]

IMHO it is not coils. My coil failure happened a few hundred miles into a 4000 mile ride. At cruising speed the bike was smooth but would occasionally stumble and even die at idle. A dealer in Mass. assured me that the coils were fine and I limped home (enjoyed the ride ... just kept a little extra throttle on at stop signs). The problem progressed and I borrowed a coil from a friends 1150 to prove that was the problem. Replaced both 50K ago and no problems since.

 

I would start by building yourself a manometer and doing your own TBS. I took over the maintenance of my RT 100K ago after my local dealer did a full service on my bike. I picked it up expecting great performance and found it was running worse than when I brought it in to the shop. It was the influence of this BMWST group that led me to take the plunge. The basic fact is that you care more about getting adjustments spot on than a mechanic who has work backup up and is working against an hourly rate book.

 

Start with a really good TBS.

[Uncle Beemer]

It's a boxer, 2 cylinder engine which will give you a little bit of a buzz.

From the sound of it, yours would do well with a carefully adjusted synchronization.

Do NOT assume that a dealer will do this as careful as an enthusiastic owner. They work on a profit margin and would simply not have the time to do this.

The bike has to be fully warmed up, i.e ridden with the fairing removed and then 2 fans pointed at the cylinders for cooling during the tuning.

From personal experience, the 04 1150RT benefits immensely in smoothness from a careful balancing.

 

That was done by my wrench who is an independent. I have the utmost confidence in him.

[Uncle Beemer]

Uncle Beemer

 

If it buzzes in every gear at the same engine RPM (range) try riding in 4th gear to well above the buzz period then while holding the throttle steady (don't let off) just hit the kill switch & coast back through the buzz period. If it still buzzes then your problem is strictly mechanical. If it goes completely away then your problem is more than likely in the coils or something causing a severe power mis-match side to side.

 

I did this about 6 or 7 times at high speed. I could tell no discernible difference in buzz with the engine killed and still in gear. However, I am midway thru my first tank of fuel treated with Seafoam and it seems as if it is getting a bit smoother. What are the odds that my trouble is an engine with a bit of carbon build up?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Uncle Beemer

 

If you don't feel much difference with the engine pulling or coasting with the ign off then you probably aren't fighting a combustion related buzz.

 

In most cases things like TB balance or valve adjustment have very little effect on higher RPM engine buzz or vibration on a boxer twin.

 

Higher RPM rocking couple buzz can be harsher under a stronger firing load though.

 

If you can feel a TB imbalance or valve adjustment at 4k with much lower engine vacuum it would be much worse at a higher vacuum lower throttle plate opening of 3k or 2k.

 

In most cases of higher RPM BMW boxer buzz it is mechanical, or second order mechanical.

 

Remember in the BMW 2 cylinder boxer that BOTH pistons "completely stop" then re-start moving the other way twice per revolution. Those pistons are not directly across from each other so cause a considerable sharp engine pulse on each piston start & stop.