Brake light staying on 2009 R1200RT

[Plasterman]

What does it mean with the insturment brake light stays on (steady red)? I have checked all the fluids and bulbs, not the problem. Light does not even flash on start up. Bike on has 4400 miles on it. One other funny thing is the the self cancelling on the turn signals has also quit working since the brake light issue started. Any suggestions?

 

Tom

[Albert]

Not sure about the 2009 (I have an 06) but there was a recall on my year concerning the wire for the front abs sensor. The wire was routed very close to the front left brake rotor and, in some case, it rubbed and eventually wore through the insulation. A simple wire tie re-route cured the problem. You might check that on your bike. I'm not sure if they changed the routing on the 09 or not.

[dirtrider]

Morning Tom

 

Are you referring to the red "brake failure" light?

 

If so that basically is telling you that you have no ABS available or that something is wrong with your ABS system.

 

Could be anything from a hard internal failure, to a wheel sensor issue, to a sensor wire rubbed through, to a sticking master cylinder lever or pedal, to ??????.

 

The place to start is to very carefully go over the front & rear (mostly front though) wheel speed sensor wires & look for contact with the brake rotor & a worn spot in that area.

 

If nothing found & your brake pedal & hand lever are fully & easily returning then you will have to have your dealer pull the stored brake failure code(s) then address what code(s) are found. No way to get the brake codes from the I-ABS gen II system at home without a GS-911 or dealer computer.

 

Your auto cancel turn signals use that wheel sensor input to tell the computer how far the bike has gone so if the ABS controller is not outputting the correct speed signal your auto cancel turn signals won't work correctly.

 

[Plasterman]

Checked the bike with a GS911. Fault code is indicating rear wheel sensor and some type of communication error with the cambus. Road the bike home from work and noted some imtermittent changes. Light on and tested brakes, no ABS- able to lock back brake up. Light went off but brakes were week and early ABS pulsing. Tried stopping a couple of times, turned the bike off, and now things seem to be working normally. It has a Gremlin that has not declared its gender.

 

Is there any way to test a wheel sensor?

 

Is there any data base on fault codes, what they mean and what is needed to fix what ever is causing the fault? I know some of the codes are self explanatory?

 

Thanks

 

Tom

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Tom

 

You can test the wheel sensors, at least somewhat.

 

First thing I would do is unbolt then remove the rear wheel sensor. Then look to see how much metallic particles are stuck to the wheel sensor magnet (those rear wheel sensors work inside the final drive so can get a lot of metallic fuzz on them).

 

If a lot of metallic fuzz found, clean that off, then change the final drive gear oil (drop the gear oil into a clean pan or container then strain through a paper towel or coffee filter to see what's in the gear oil).

 

Then re-install the rear sensor, put in new gear oil (Drive holds 180Ml of new oil), then ride the bike. If your problem goes away you have probably located your ABS problem but might be looking at a finial drive issue.

 

If not a lot of fuzz found (good news for the final drive) you can then test the wheel sensors.

 

To do that --unplug both the front & rear sensors. Then use a (good quality) volt/ohmmeter to check the resistance of the front wheel sensor (across the two pins in the disconnected wheel side of the sensor harness). Then measure both pins (one at a time) to chassis ground (a good sensor should show open). Now switch the meter to 5v A/C scale (or whatever your meter has available that's close on A/C low voltage wise ). Now give the wheel a spin & note the voltage output.

 

OK, that gives you a baseline of the front sensor.

 

Now unplug & do the same for the rear sensor. A good rear sensor should be very close to the front as far as resistance, A/C output (at same wheel spin speed) & lack of continuity to ground.

 

While in there go over the rear wheel speed sensor wire harness for ANY signs of chafing, pinching, abnormal wear, or ANYTHING that could effect the sensor properly supplying the ABS controller with the proper signal.

 

Added: should have mentioned to check the rear wheel sensor plug for being FULLY plugged in & check the terminal pins for any signs of oxidation. Could be a good sensor with a bad connection to the bike's harness.

 

 

[Plasterman]

Thanks. I will give that a try this weekend.

[Plasterman]

Changed the final drive fluid and it appeared to be very murky. Is was supposedly changed at the 600 service, but I have my doubts. Rear wheel sensor was kind of gummy also. Cleared to fault codes and no faults for two days now

[Plasterman]

This is what dealer gave me to change my final drive. "Final Drive Gear Oil C-SAF-XO SAE 75W-90". It doesnt say synthetic and it is not red. I changed the final drive and the transmission with this. Any thought?

[lkchris]

SAF-XO is indeed synthetic.

 

You can use more conventional/less expensive fluid in transmission.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Plasterman

 

 

SAF-XO is produced by Castrol (or at least bottled by Castrol) in Europe. The SAF-XO is a synthetic 75/90 & is a very good gear uplevel gear oil. In fact Land Rover specified the same gear oil in some of it's uplevel vehicles.

 

The older BMW Red 75/90 final drive gear oil sold at BMW dealers was blended by Spectro for the BMW American market (the Castrol SAF-XO wasn't being imported into the American market at that that time.

 

Personally I use the Land Rover LRN-7591 (available at Land Rover dealers) as it has been easily available in the U.S. all along, is the same gear oil as the BMW specified SAF-XO gear oil & a lot cheaper in my area.

 

Your 2009 1200RT came with 90 weight gear oil in the trans but the new ones come from the factory with 75/90 in the transmissions. BMW had a bulletin or advisory (can't remember which) that it is OK to use the SAF-XO 75/90 in the trans as well as the final drive. In fact the BMW service manual actually specifies SAF-XO in the 1200RT final drives.

 

On my personal 2009 1200RT I use ( an have used for quite while now) LRN-7591 (same as SAF-XO) in the trans & that has notably improved the shifting especially in cold weather.

 

SAF-XO is s very good gear oil but it is super expensive through a BMW dealer.

 

[Ponch]

Not sure about the 2009 (I have an 06) but there was a recall on my year concerning the wire for the front abs sensor. The wire was routed very close to the front left brake rotor and, in some case, it rubbed and eventually wore through the insulation. A simple wire tie re-route cured the problem. You might check that on your bike. I'm not sure if they changed the routing on the 09 or not.

 

That happened to mine, a 2009. It's still under warranty and still not replaced. The electrical tape is working, but I have to get it done soon.

[Ponch]

Changed the final drive fluid and it appeared to be very murky. Is was supposedly changed at the 600 service, but I have my doubts. Rear wheel sensor was kind of gummy also. Cleared to fault codes and no faults for two days now

 

When I did the 6K service, my final drive fluid was the original red and had grey paste in the drain plug. My guess it was never changed on the 600 mile service too and the valves were way out. I guess I paid for an expensive oil change. Better to do it yourself for the most part, although if you ever sell it, some like to buy BMW bikes that were dealer serviced. I never had that when I sold my Japanese bikes.

[w2ge]

Ponch.. it may have been.. If they used BMW fluid it is red and the grey paste is molybedenum run-off from the gears...

 

Re: that front ABS sensor wire, I have a 2010 and I decided to have a peek and it too was touching the rotor! Zip-tie and everything was there, it just "rotated", I guess.. So I just moved it away, rotated the zip-tie etc.. but I check it every so often. (and I think EVERYONE should, too)

[Ponch]

Ponch.. it may have been.. If they used BMW fluid it is red and the grey paste is molybedenum run-off from the gears...

 

Re: that front ABS sensor wire, I have a 2010 and I decided to have a peek and it too was touching the rotor! Zip-tie and everything was there, it just "rotated", I guess.. So I just moved it away, rotated the zip-tie etc.. but I check it every so often. (and I think EVERYONE should, too)

 

And yet the OP says the BMW fluid he got wasn't red...There was a ton on grey paste. If someone did the FD oil, they should have cleaned it out. As far as the valves go, the intakes seemed like the clearances were what the exhaust should be. The bike ran so much better after the valve adjustment.

 

I'll put it this way: After I got my bike, I told the president of the local BMWMOA chapter of this and he said he wouldn't pay someone to learn how to work on a BMW. He has gone to the same dealer with his LT and had issues as did others. The sales side of the dealer was fine, but the service side reminded me of the old AAMCO commercial where two hicks said they always wanted to work on a transmission. The next dealer was 120 miles away, actually two were, but that is inconvenient as I have to set aside a whole day just to get something relatively simple done. It's the one negative to owning a BMW: The dealer network can be thin. I just hope the competence is better than my experience. I still have to get that ABS sensor replaced. The local dealers where I live now are GOAZ and Victory BMW. Anyone ever deal with them?

[dirtrider]

Morning Ponch

 

The original final drive (factory fill) isn't red but a brown color. Can even lean towards black as the moly additive does that in time. The U.S. market replacement gear oil from the BMW dealer was red until the latest SAF-XO got the OK for import.

 

On cleaning the wheel sensor off--- the 09 has a separate fill plug so the wheel sensor doesn't get removed at gear oil change so wouldn't have been cleaned during first gear oil change.

 

[Ponch]

I said the drain plug was full of grey paste. A tech would have to be lazy not to clean it out. I haven't taken the ABS sensor out to clean it yet. I am just up to the 12K+annual, so it'll get a more thorough going through at this time.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Ponch

 

Or the tec was following the service manual & there is no requirement in the service manual or service bulletin to clean the drain plug out.

 

I agree it would be nice if he would have cleaned it out for you but you didn't pay for that service & he obviously didn't do anything extra.

 

On the 12K/annual service -- I never strictly adhere to that on the 1200RT final drives. I always drain the final drive at rear tire change time. The muffler is already loose, the wheel is already removed, so the difficult part of the final drive oil change is already done at tire change time.

 

Same with valve adjustment or TB check-- I do those when I have the Tupperware removed for something else if anywhere near service time +/- a couple of thousand miles either way.

 

[Ponch]

Afternoon Ponch

 

Or the tec was following the service manual & there is no requirement in the service manual or service bulletin to clean the drain plug out.

 

I agree it would be nice if he would have cleaned it out for you but you didn't pay for that service & he obviously didn't do anything extra.

 

On the 12K/annual service -- I never strictly adhere to that on the 1200RT final drives. I always drain the final drive at rear tire change time. The muffler is already loose, the wheel is already removed, so the difficult part of the final drive oil change is already done at tire change time.

 

Same with valve adjustment or TB check-- I do those when I have the Tupperware removed for something else if anywhere near service time +/- a couple of thousand miles either way.

 

And I thought that would be common sense. I did it and didn't have to be told to do it...As far as the other stuff goes, I have no reason to take stuff apart unless it's service time, which is coming soon. It's a good time to go through everything. It's one time I wish I had the GSA. It's a bit easier without the tupperware.

[racer7]

On my 08RT, there was enough assembly lube in it that traces showed up until the third FD fluid change - I do it at every tire change because its easy, cheap, and gives me a chance to do a thorough FD inspection. Hoping I get lucky enough to spot signs of its eventual demise before getting stuck on a road trip so I can deal with it in a more leisurely and planned manner.

[Ponch]

My first set of tires lasted 9500 miles, so it's close to a 12K. I hope to do as well with the PR3's.

 

As far as the grey poop, I flush it out before refilling the drive. There was a lot in there and not to start an oil thread, but I used Mobil 1 75W-90.

[Plasterman]

What does one use to clean out the final drive? By the way, 3 days and no problem.

[dirtrider]

Evening Plasterman

 

Nothing-- Just change the gear oil after good long run high speed run. That will pick up what is loose or can move around. Otherwise let sleeping dogs lie.

 

Best thing to do is run a magnetic drain plug & change the gear oil at every rear tire change.

 

[Ponch]

I think the plug might be magnetic. It has a deep recess in it. I know the transmission had a magnetic plug and had some schmutz on it too, but nothing like the FD.

[gordiet]

GOAZ is a great place to get service done. Louie will take good care of you and there tecks are good as well. Bought to 1200Rt's there and no complaints. GT

[Ponch]

GOAZ is a great place to get service done. Louie will take good care of you and there tecks are good as well. Bought to 1200Rt's there and no complaints. GT

 

I do my own service, but I have an ABS cable that touched the rotor and wore through a bit. When I lived in Iowa, I called Gina's and Julius said it would be covered under warranty, but I didn't get a chance to get down there as I lived 120 miles away. I just don't want to go somewhere I might be less than satisfied with and I will leave it at that.

[Beech]

Two reasons I have seen the brake light staying on, a rock under the lever in the rear not allowing it to return to normal and the front brake micro switch out of adjustment in the lever perch.

[dirtrider]

Two reasons I have seen the brake light staying on, a rock under the lever in the rear not allowing it to return to normal and the front brake micro switch out of adjustment in the lever perch.

 

Morning Beech

 

No brake micro switches on his 2009 1200RT. The brake light is controlled by the pressure circuits inside the ABS controller.

 

[Plasterman]

Two more faults today. GS911 says " Rear Wheel Speed Sensor: Signal implausible" The fault keeps correcting itself. Previously checked the sensor during final drive change, looked OK. Checked wires all the way to the main harness, looks OK. Should I just replace the sensor, or wait until the fault doesn't correct itself?

 

All I loose when the fault is present is loss of the ABS. Bikes brakes still work just does not have the added safety of the ABS.

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Plasterman

 

Is the rear sensor still clean? If it is then you probably have a sensor issue or maybe a tire size issue. Are the front & rear tires stock size & about even wear wise?

 

 

[Plasterman]

Haven't pull the sensor again to look at it. Tires have only 4700to gentle miles and still look good.

[10ovr]

On my 07 there is a shim and then the O ring on the rear sensor,,With out the shim the sensor could be to close to the pick up ring,,,,Just a thought

[Albert]

Well that does it, I'm never changing my FD oil again. Changed it a couple of weeks ago and now my abs is intermittently triggering the red triangle and flashing "brake failure" lights. A stop, engine off, and restart has "fixed" it every time (it's happened 3 times now). I'm guessing I pinched a wire or didn't clean the rear sensor good enough, or didn't get it reinstalled fully. Time to pull the rear wheel again. Sigh.