What do you think?

[majrosebud]

If this topic is too sensitive, I'm fine with the mods taking it off the board. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but it has been bothering me. I'm looking for some perspective. What do you think?

 

My daughter married a Mormon guy a year ago and has subsequently changed religion. There is so much that I admire about mormons. They are good family people. That is a biggie. The ones I know are genuinely nice. They don't drink or smoke or even use caffiene! There are parts of that religion I think all of us could learn something from.

 

Here's some background. My daughter is a second year med student. THey have been married about a year. I love my son-in-law and I know the feelings are mutual. We hang out together and enjoy each others company. I would never interfere in their marriage.

 

 

Here's what is bothering me. First off, my wife and I could not attend my daughter's religious wedding ceremony. Not allowed in the temple. That tweeked me bad, but I got over it eventually. Here's the latest. My daughter calls my wife and feels pressured to start a family from those in the church. No one has said this directly to her, but if your familair with that religion, most couples have a kid before their first anniversary. That pisses me off. All of the people they hang with are mormon. I'm getting kind of wierded out by the whole thing.

 

I'm going to keep my feelings to myself. They're not doing anything illegal or immoral. The worst thing that could happen would be to lose them. I think I'll just listen and nod.

 

 

[Roadwolf]

I think you may be screwed in this situation. She married into a different world and if their marriage is going to work, she is going to have learn to adapt to that mindset. Otherwise, I don't see any good coming out of it by either you and your wife or more specifically she fighting it. Her decision to have children will ultimately be up to her primarily (and secondarily her husband).

 

Kind of hard to let your daughter go into a situation that has issues like that, but I think on the whole, she is probably going to be fine. As you said, she has a family that loves her on both ends and she has that going for her, which is the most important thing.

 

I won't touch on the religious aspect, but the pressure for her to have children is not unique to just Mormons. My wife and I had that pushed on us from all sides of our family.

 

Hoping all the best for you.

[moshe_levy]

Most people in here have way more experience parenting than I do, since mine are just relative babies. I really feel for you here. It's a tough spot. I suppose some good advice coming from you - with no pressure - will be remembered fondly and maybe followed down the line if the pressure from the other side crosses the line from accepted to resented.

 

-MKL

[Richard_D]

Trust your daughter and support her decisions. They may change over time but hopefully she'll know if she's happy and will make the right decisions. It sort of reminds me of Katy Holmes and Tom Cruise.

[Kathy R]

my wife and I could not attend my daughter's religious wedding ceremony. Not allowed in the temple.

 

 

That right there speaks volumes.

[Bud]

Her whole life has changed with her decision. Yours as well.

 

As a father and grandfather, I'm deeply moved by your frustration. I also know that by choosing her husband and his religion, she has chosen to, in some ways, leave you and your life behind. And she has also chosen to put herself in the position of being pressured.

 

All any of us can do is love our children and make sure they know it. The rest is up to them.

 

 

[4wheeldog]

Have you been told about how they will baptize you into the Mormon faith, after your demise? That is why they are so interested in geneology. If they can identify their ancestors, they can baptize them.......Against their wishes.

 

I am not making this up.

[eddd]

I recently moved to Utah to a town where a very large majority of the population is Mormon. In an effort to better understand my neighbors I have spent lots of time researching Mormons, not just the religious beliefs, but how Mormons interact with non-Mormons, people who were not born into the faith but who join the church, and people who are ex-Mormons.

 

I suggest that you should do the same to get a better understanding of what your daughter is going through.

 

Though it might be biased, the testimony of ex-Mormons provides a first-hand look into Mormon life that helped explain some questions I had.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Husker Red]

Well, it could have been worse. She could have married a Texas fan.

 

Seriously, you must have done a pretty good job raising a smart girl if she's in her second year of med school. Trust her. All new couples get the pressure to have kids. She's clearly smart enough to make her own decision on that. And if she wants to start a family now, that's great too! As long as you maintain your relationship with her it's a win win.

[Bill_Walker]

Re the pressure to have kids, my wife and her twin sister both had children while they were in their medical internships/residencies. It can be done, but it takes a really understanding and helpful spouse (he said, patting himself on the back). That being said, we saw several marriages that didn't survive med school, let alone internship/residency, even without kids. Is your son-in-law also a med student?

[Quinn]

I had the first Grandchild on both sides of our family. There was not that much pressure, maybe because neither side was sure I was stable enough to stay married. If given the choice between a baby and a boat, I'd have picked the boat. But after the first, the pressure was on to have a second. "But Mathew needs a little brother or sister." My answer was that Matt needed cousins; I'd already anteed up my share for the family tree.

 

Your daughter is still an indivual as is her husband and it's their life and their decision. She doesn't have to be a Stepford wife. I'd just ask her what kind of car these people think she should drive? Just remind her that she has free will and let her go from there. Oh, and be there to support her when she needs it.

 

 

----

[Mike]

I've had some good friends who were Mormons. I guess most of them had kids early in their marriage, but I can't recall any of them ever relating that they felt particularly pressured. Maybe we just never got to that conversation.

 

If your daughter truly feels pressured, she'll have to come to her own decision as to when to go down the road of parenthood. But, it appears that she accepted the decision to follow the Mormon faith as part of her decision to marry . . . and I would assume that she understood the lifestyle changes this would encompass. I'd act as a sounding board and give her honest advice, but I also think you will probably have to just back away from interjecting your opinions (and it sounds like you've done this).

 

The good news? It sounds like her husband is a terrific guy. If they're in love and they respect one another, they will find a way through these travails by sharing their opinions and concerns.

[Mrs. Caddis]

I was working as an Engineer when I got pregnant with my first. For me the real pressure started then, mostly from colleagues, the pressure to stay home... I put up with some very nasty and pointed comments when I chose to continue working.

 

As noted above, med school and residency are tough on a marriage. They need to plan before starting a family and know the pressure will continue even after they decide to have children.

[pbharvey]

my wife and I could not attend my daughter's religious wedding ceremony. Not allowed in the temple.

 

 

That right there speaks volumes.

 

My wife was raised catholic. My mother-in-law said that if her daughter wasn't married in a catholic church then she wasn't going to the wedding. I was raised in an evangelical christian church yet was denied the opportunity to partake of communion in the catholic church. At the time, I was just a young guy who didn't know any better - to me communion was communion.

 

All religions and followers there of have their idiosyncrasies. I agree that to be denied access to your daughter's wedding is extreme but on the other hand Mormons at large have a tremendous amount going for them as far as nice, clean cut, mannerly, family oriented, devout, etc.

[Dave McReynolds]

There are a lot of choices a person could make that would make it difficult to maintain close family ties: career soldier, nun, high-powered executive who would like to work 24/7, etc. I assume that most people go into these situations with their eyes open, and the importance of maintaining close family ties is not as significant of a factor to them as it might be for other family members who are left behind. These are all voluntary choices, including the one your daughter made, and it is probably well that people come to terms with them.

 

You appear to love your daughter; you need to accept the choices she has made, even though you might have preferred that she make other choices. Things may not work out for her in the future, and she may need your help. By the same token, things may not work out for you in the future, and you may need her help. That's what families are for.

 

She has chosen a difficult, difficult road if she decides to become pregnant while in medical school (meaning if she decides to remain in medical school after she has a child). My wife's daughter became pregnant in her last year of residency, when she could see the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. It almost ruined her health, and she had to spend the last 6-8 weeks of her pregnancy flat on her back. The program worked with her, and she was able to finish her residency. But I'm not sure if that would have been the case if she hadn't already had 7 years of medical training behind her. But your daughter knows that; she wouldn't be in medical school if she weren't smart enough to figure that out. Your discussing the situation with her unless she asks you to could be viewed as not giving her credit for the intelligence she clearly has.

[moshe_levy]

Much advice from those who are older and wiser than I. Me? I'm young enough to remember all the stupid things I did when I was young. Major, life altering things that I still pay high prices for today. My parents always cautioned me as best they could, and then let me go off the cliff. I had to learn the hard way. Alot of that wonderful "cognitive dissonance" comes into play here as well - young, full of piss and vinegar, you're going full steam ahead. Because you know everything. What do the old people know, anyway? Right? That has nothing to do with intelligence - it has to do with being young, and being too proud to admit you're wrong.

 

So I made my mistakes. I still pay for alot of them. My parents couldn't stop me from making them. But they were there for me when I fell. They helped me get back on my feet. They held me steady when I felt like dropping again. They didn't say "I told you so" too much. That made the experiences an even more valuable teacher.

 

Today, I have 3 daughters of my own. 2 of them are still in diapers. So I don't have to deal with this for awhile. But I really feel for you. I think my parents, for the most part, handled my mistakes the right way. Maybe, based on the above synopsis, that's another option to consider.

 

-MKL

[Rocer]

Well, I identify with your situation as my daughter, who must be close to the same age as yours, is basically in the same situation half way around the globe. I think there is nothing the matter with you and your wife sitting down with your daughter and perhaps together with her husband (ask her) to express calmly your concerns. I think she has already reached out to you in regards to feeling pressured to have children. I realize it's a year after their marriage but did you consider having a second ceremony more conventional to your family's experience?

[elkroeger]

my wife and I could not attend my daughter's religious wedding ceremony. Not allowed in the temple.

 

 

That right there speaks volumes.

 

+1. You got the shaft right from the start. Isn't organized religion neat?

 

[Hedgry]

I agree that to be denied access to your daughter's wedding is extreme but on the other hand Mormons at large have a tremendous amount going for them as far as nice, clean cut, mannerly, family oriented, devout, etc.

 

For a sobering and stark take on the Mormon legacy: "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith" by John Krakauer

 

Krakauer is no slouch as any of you who've read his work can attest to.

 

[DiggerJim]

Have you been told about how they will baptize you into the Mormon faith, after your demise?

I have friends (and relatives in fact) who are Mormon. If any want to baptize me in the Mormon church (I'm Catholic) after I'm dead I'm sure I won't be offended. Either I'm already where it won't matter or it'll get me moved somewhere I might like better. Seems to me I win in both cases.

[tallman]

my wife and I could not attend my daughter's religious wedding ceremony. Not allowed in the temple.

 

 

That right there speaks volumes.

 

 

I'm gonna just censor my own post.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I feel better.

 

Not being allowed to attend my daughter's wedding would've been a big issue with me.

 

Discrimination/bigotry, call it what it is, has no place, IMO, in a relationship, and no place in a wedding

"celebration'>

Now these same individuals are telling her how to begin a family?

Next will be how to raise, who to congregate with, who is acceptable, etc.

 

Sorry.

Not for me.

 

[Jerry_75_Guy]

"Here's what is bothering me. First off, my wife and I could not attend my daughter's religious wedding ceremony. Not allowed in the temple. That tweeked me bad, but I got over it eventually."

 

Very inappropriate in my opinion, and as just mentioned, barring family from a wedding celebration is discriminative, bigoted, and morally wrong on several levels. But if you can tolerate it, then I guess its not a 'deal breaker' (I think it portends bad things though).

 

"Here's the latest. My daughter calls my wife and feels pressured to start a family from those in the church. No one has said this directly to her, but if your familair with that religion, most couples have a kid before their first anniversary."

 

Perhaps someone with better knowledge will jump in here, but I not aware of any doctrine or point of faith within the Mormon belief system that requires a couple to have children within the first year of marriage.

 

If this is true, then the pressures your daughter's new social circle are placing on her, with regard to pregnancy, are at best, cultural, or even simply what they think she should do.

 

Grossly inappropriate, in my opinion, and none of their business.

 

If I was in your place, or if I was a friend of your daughter's who had been asked for advice, I'd pretty much retell what I said above; if it is not a specific dictate of her new religion, then her friends are only telling her what they want, which should not even begin to enter the equation, and when, or even if, she and her husband decide to have children, that decision belongs to them, not their friends, fellow congregation members, or anyone else. I'd remind her to do what she feels is right for her, not what others think is right for her, and to trust her own opinion and convictions on the matter.

 

If some group tried, in any way, to coerce my wife and I on a matter as important, personal, and sensitive as when to procreate, I would consider the action deeply offensive.

[ratfink]

I think that she should expect the peer pessure to continue, not just about having the first child but in everyday things like how she dresses etc. If a child doesn't come along in a certain amount of time it will get the attention of the Bishop and he'll come calling to inquire about marital problems, spiritual graces or god forbid, if birth control is being employed. The pressure and inquiry is likely to continue until there are several children.

 

If one of the children turns out to be gay they will find out about shunning and excommunication.

[majrosebud]

I've enjoyed reading all the comments and can identify with each one. I think the best policy is to just get along. She is my daughter and I don't want to isolate her from the rest of the family. The "church" seems to be doing a pretty good job with that. Thanks for all the replies and discussions. Excuse me while I pop a can open and turn on some Lennon.

[moshe_levy]

Please keep us informed, if you can or feel it's appropriate to share, of the developments. As a young dad I can learn alot from situations like this.

 

-MKL

[Bud]

30 Rock with Brian Williams on TV right now about Morman Church.

[Stir]

If your son in law and daughter choose to have a child while she is in med school, I would consider that a very selfish and immature choice. It is selfish because children require a lot of time and attention. They need to be played with, read to, educated...ect. This takes time away from the time she needs to study. And what is she going to do during residency? If she makes the choice to take from the child's time, then the child suffers. It would also be an immature choice. Mature adults take in all the facts and try to make good decisions about their lives. One of the facts that never enters into a free thinking adult's head is "What do others think?" If an individual is doing that, then they are not mature enough to have and raise a child. I was 30 when I got married and 34 when I had my first of three boys. The one thing that I hear all the time is, "You have really incredible children." Yeah, I do. But that didn't happen in a vacuum. I made deliberate choices to raise free thinking individuals. The 17 year old is now in Germany as a US student ambassador. He made the choice. When he gets back, he'll finish high school. The 15 year old writes computer games. He published his first game on the Apple store when he was 12. The youngest one loves sports. He hopes to be a pro baseball player someday. But he hedges his bets by being a straight A student. Raising children of this caliber takes time.

 

One more thing, you are still her dad. Reminder her that honor your mother and your father is one of the ten commandments. Not being able to attend a wedding ceremony would certainly been dishonoring her parents. Not listening to your input is also not honoring your mother and father. You explain to her that mature adults have children when they are ready, and one sign you are ready is when you decide to do so on your own.

 

Good luck.

[Codeman]

I see a lot of misinformation in this thread and perhaps a bit of misunderstanding too.

I am a "mormon". Born and raised. 6th generation. Went on a mission. Go to the temple. Ect... I also have a degree in Religious Studies and have extensively studied a lot of different religions. I have respect for all of them for the most part. They all have their own cultural biases, idiosyncrasies, unique doctrines, rituals and myths.

 

I understand that you may have been upset that your daughter got married not in your presence. How many other daughters around the globe have gone out and eloped? My Brother did it last night in Reno at a 24 hour chapel. Were my folks upset that they weren't there? Not particularly, but I haven't spoke with my mom yet, just my dad. But I understand they are not you. Your daughter got to be married in a place that she finds so sacred and holds the marriage covenants so sacred that they don't let every one in. This is a hard concept to understand. There is nothing horribly secret about the process. The ceremony itself is quite simple where they pledge to each other to love and serve one another and God. It is the place that is sacred, holy ground if you will. These sacred places are found in most religions. But again I understand not being able to share in that ceremony with your daughter and son in law.

 

Now on the pressure to have children. Mormons believe that the commandment given to Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the Earth has not been rescinded. As such Mormons are encouraged to have children. Some general church leaders have counseled the general membership of the church not to wait to have children, but they also stress personal choice on when to have children. I will also admit to a certain cultural tendency to have a large family. But the pressure to have kids after a couple gets married is not institutionalized (meaning it is a requirement for membership) or even unique to Mormons as has been pointed out above. What pressure most young couples get are likely innocent questions from fellow members like, "When are you two going to start a family?" My non-mormon friends expressed they get the same "pressure" from well meaning friends and family.

 

I was married ten years before we had kids. I heard this question many times as did my wife from well meaning people that were just curious. None of it was institutional though. At no time did clergy ask this question as some kind of requirement. Mostly it was little old ladies who liked to hold babies. Neither did I feel this was undue pressure on us. Occasionally a question may have been interpreted as being rude, but I didn't let it bother me, and can't even recall those times or questions. There is nothing wrong with saying it is none of your business, as it isn't.

 

But as you stated, "No one has said this directly to her." There fore I can only gather that the presence of young couples with children must be putting pressure on her. This kind of "pressure" would be present at any institution where young families are present. I also will say that most Mormon couples I know did not have children before the first wedding anniversary.

 

I echo the others here in saying that your daughter is obviously smart and capable. She will make what ever decision she makes. I wouldn't judge her too harshly if she makes a decision that you wouldn't have made. I'm sure we did that to our parents and I know my children do that to me.

[kooshbal]

I was in this same situation 35 years ago and have often thought back that I would have done it different. When I married my wife, we excluded her side of the family. There probably remains some resentment for our exclusion. If I had a rewind, I would have married civilly then waited for the religious cermony. Here in Utah, couples have two cermonies, the temple then a ring cermony prior to the reception to include both sides of the family.

[moshe_levy]

Your daughter got to be married in a place that she finds so sacred and holds the marriage covenants so sacred that they don't let every one in. This is a hard concept to understand.

 

You're certainly right about it. It is hard to understand.

 

-MKL

[Dave McReynolds]

Your daughter got to be married in a place that she finds so sacred and holds the marriage covenants so sacred that they don't let every one in. This is a hard concept to understand.

 

You're certainly right about it. It is hard to understand.

 

-MKL

 

One of my wife's friends decided to get married on the top of Mt. Shasta. The minister and the bride and groom made it, so the wedding was performed. The maid of honor didn't make it, so my wife stood in for her. She has a neat picture of the bride with her white dress blowing around her legs exposing her boots and crampons. I'm not sure, but my guess is that the parents didn't make it to that one either.

[moshe_levy]

That's because they couldn't make it, not because they weren't allowed.

 

-MKL

[Bill_Walker]

If your son in law and daughter choose to have a child while she is in med school, I would consider that a very selfish and immature choice. It is selfish because children require a lot of time and attention. They need to be played with, read to, educated...ect. This takes time away from the time she needs to study. And what is she going to do during residency? If she makes the choice to take from the child's time, then the child suffers. It would also be an immature choice. Mature adults take in all the facts and try to make good decisions about their lives. One of the facts that never enters into a free thinking adult's head is "What do others think?" If an individual is doing that, then they are not mature enough to have and raise a child. I was 30 when I got married and 34 when I had my first of three boys. The one thing that I hear all the time is, "You have really incredible children." Yeah, I do. But that didn't happen in a vacuum. I made deliberate choices to raise free thinking individuals. The 17 year old is now in Germany as a US student ambassador. He made the choice. When he gets back, he'll finish high school. The 15 year old writes computer games. He published his first game on the Apple store when he was 12. The youngest one loves sports. He hopes to be a pro baseball player someday. But he hedges his bets by being a straight A student. Raising children of this caliber takes time.

 

My daughter, as mentioned above, was born during my wife's residency. She's been a great kid, a high achiever, and just started her second year at Duke Law. So it's certainly possible to raise great kids starting during a medical residency. But she is an only child, which meant she got all the attention that was available. That, and I'm an awesome dad.

 

Of course, statistically speaking, a sample size of one (or three, in your case) is meaningless.