Stuck in Red Lodge - Need help!

[imdavida]

Hey everybody, I'm on a 2004 R1150RT on a 2 week tour of the western US. Yesterday, on top of Beartooth Pass, I stopped at the gift shop. Came out ten minutes later and bike wouldn't start. Pullled spark plug and it was totally dry. Sitting in a motel in Red Lodge MT. Closest BMW dealer is 6 hours away. Talked to their service dept. Tech not in today. I suspect possibly the fuel pump or filter. Changed the fuse, relay. Bike will start, run 3-5 secs and quit. Checked all fuel lines, connections. Look fine. Not sure what to do next. Any thoughts? Thanks

[JamesW]

Well, at least you made it to Red Lodge and a motel. When you open the cap to the fuel tank is there by chance a sucking sound as in maybe the vent line to the tank is plugged? If it looks like the tank is venting then I would remove a fuel injector and check for good fine spray pattern with no dripping. Then I would suspect the fuel filter for possibly being clogged. If none of the above I would have a beer and say bad things about BMW and wait for D.R. to respond.

[Alfred02]

Every time I pulled the top spark plugs, they were dry (on my own working bike).

It's the bottom one's that always appear to be wet.

From the sound of it, you seem to have spark as per the 3~5 second runs.

 

Suggestions:

 

1)Open the tank lid, in case a vacuum has built up and with the tank lid open, try to start the bike.

2)Pull the RHS fairing and disconnect/reconnect the quick connects. On mine, the fuel had jellied on the connector and required cleaning and a couple of plug/unplug goes to get things seated and working properly. If for some reason, one has slightly unseated, it will cut off the fuel supply.

3) Very carefully pull off the hard fuel line on the RHS injector (as you already have got that faring off by now,)probably work it off with a flat blade screwdriver (carefully) and crank the engine..getting fuel flow???.

 

From there on, wait for other suggestions.

Worse case, fuel line has come off/split inside the tank somewhere around the fuel pump...bitch off a job to get to.

 

[imdavida]

Thanks for the replies.. I have the gas tank pulled and the fuel pump and filter out of the tank. Over the course of the trip I would periodically have trouble starting the bike. Then, on the second or third try it would start. I can hear the fuel pump cycle when the ignition turns on. I'm wondering... I had replaced the battery before I left. Is it a higher possibility that the battery isn't supplying enough voltage to get the fuel pump to operate and that's why it shuts down after 3 seconds?

[roger 04 rt]

Hey everybody, I'm on a 2004 R1150RT on a 2 week tour of the western US. Yesterday, on top of Beartooth Pass, I stopped at the gift shop. Came out ten minutes later and bike wouldn't start. Pullled spark plug and it was totally dry. Sitting in a motel in Red Lodge MT. Closest BMW dealer is 6 hours away. Talked to their service dept. Tech not in today. I suspect possibly the fuel pump or filter. Changed the fuse, relay. Bike will start, run 3-5 secs and quit. Checked all fuel lines, connections. Look fine. Not sure what to do next. Any thoughts? Thanks

 

It sounds as if you're not getting fuel pressure. Could be a clogged fuel filter or a leaking hose in the tank. When my fuel hose in the tank let go recently it would start but not stay running. Sounds a lot like yours. Leaking Fuel Hoses in Tank .

 

A way to check if you're getting full pressure is to open the fuel return QD line and take the QD that connects to the pressure regulator (not the tank side) point it into a container and press in on the valve. When someone turns the key, fuel should flow. If it doesn't, it means the regulator isn't opening. Like you said, could be pump, filter or hose.

 

RB

[dirtrider]

Afternoon imdavida

 

It's supposed to shut down after 2-3 seconds (Normal operation) then start up again as the engine is cranked with the key on & starter turning.

 

If you have the fuel pump assembly out of the tank LOOK CLOSELY for cracks in the hoses & pin holes in the hoses etc.

 

 

[Galactic Greyhound]

Hi imdavida,

 

Attached is a diagram for an R1100RT Fuel Pump circuit. The diagram is very similar to the R1150RT circuit except that the Fuel Pump Relay coil is fed after the Kill switch and not after the Sidestand Switch.

 

The diagram shows how you can jumper the Fuel Pump Relay to get the Fuel Pump to run continually - this will allow you to more easily check the Return flow from the Fuel Regulator as per roger04rt post.

 

[imdavida]

Thanks for the help, D.R. Is it possible that the battery is simply not providing enough voltage to keep the fuel pump operating? On the trip I would periodically have trouble starting. Would take a couple of times. Other times it would start right up. The battery was new when I started the trip but maybe it's malfunctioning?

[roger 04 rt]

Thanks for the help, D.R. Is it possible that the battery is simply not providing enough voltage to keep the fuel pump operating? On the trip I would periodically have trouble starting. Would take a couple of times. Other times it would start right up. The battery was new when I started the trip but maybe it's malfunctioning?

 

If the battery is strong enough to turn the starter, then the fuel pump will run so I don't think that's your problem. Have you put the tank back together?

[imdavida]

I did put the tank back together and on the bike. Tightened everything I could think of and proceeded to try and start it. It fired right up,,, I let it run for about 6 minutes and turned the throttle up and down. It responded exactly as it should. It was showing about normal operating temp and I cut it off. Tried to start it again but the battery was too drained. No one around to try and get a jump. So, cautiously optimistic. Not really sure of what I might have done to get it to start. I did tighten the positive terminal on the battery a little. Also tightened the left throttle body clamp ring on the air side (not sure what to call it,,,the clamp farthest from the throttle body. I also swapped out the fuel pump relay with the spare (same size) as well as the fuel pump fuse (even though it looked ok) just to be sure. With the intermittent starting issues I've had over the last 3 days (starts great, next time takes 2-3 tries) I'm just wondering if there was a connection problem. I won't know for sure until I try it again when I can get a jump. Does any of that seem reasonable to you?

 

[Mark K]

No. That doesn't sound reasonable.

 

You replaced the battery two weeks ago before you left and you need a jump? That seems odd. Do you remember when the fuel filter was replaced last? Cracked fuel line sounds more reasonable, but the battery issues are odd. For example, you ran it last up to normal temp, turned it off and the battery was too tired to restart? Were you having issues before you left that prompted the battery replacement? That is not right.

 

Do the 1150's have the same starter issues as the 1100's? Anyone?

 

 

 

 

[edit}

 

Nice enough place to be stuck in. Unfortunately, not a lot of services there.

[Rinkydink]

I bow to dirtrider on any maintenance problem but if he tightened the positive battery terminal couldn't he have been running a total loss ignition beforehand? He doesn't say how loose it really was. Therefore he would have questionable fuel pump pressure due to a possible electrical current drop under load.

 

I feel like I'm about to be schooled by dirtrider and the like but just had to put that out there...

[David R]

Speculating over the internet with skimpy information...

 

A loose battery terminal would either let the bike crank and start or not.

 

If it was loose, the bike runs off the alternator once its fired up.

 

Battery dead now is a result of attempting to start too many times with out putting anything back in the battery, so it IS normal that it would not fire up again.

 

Intermittent starting to me is usually electrical.

 

All the checking for gas could have been done with a can of starting fluid. (now I'm a monday morning quarterback)

 

Squirt it in the air cleaner hose or housing. Crank bike. If it starts then its a fuel problem. If it does not then look some where else like spark.

 

I been schooled by DR. He does it so politely.

 

Best of luck

David

[roger 04 rt]

I did put the tank back together and on the bike. Tightened everything I could think of and proceeded to try and start it. It fired right up,,, I let it run for about 6 minutes and turned the throttle up and down. It responded exactly as it should. It was showing about normal operating temp and I cut it off. Tried to start it again but the battery was too drained. No one around to try and get a jump. So, cautiously optimistic. Not really sure of what I might have done to get it to start. I did tighten the positive terminal on the battery a little. Also tightened the left throttle body clamp ring on the air side (not sure what to call it,,,the clamp farthest from the throttle body. I also swapped out the fuel pump relay with the spare (same size) as well as the fuel pump fuse (even though it looked ok) just to be sure. With the intermittent starting issues I've had over the last 3 days (starts great, next time takes 2-3 tries) I'm just wondering if there was a connection problem. I won't know for sure until I try it again when I can get a jump. Does any of that seem reasonable to you?

 

The first responses focused on the fueling because of the dry plugs and your comments about it starting, running briefly and then stopping.

 

The intermittent starting could also be electrical. Check to make sure that the Rider Information Display (fuel, oil temp) comes on when you turn the key on and when you're cranking. If the sidestand switch or Motronic Relay are intermittent (or the associated wiring) the display won't be on. If the display is off, the engine will crank but not squirt fuel, won't turn on the fuel relay and won't deliver spark. At that point you might try moving the sidestand up/down to see if the display comes on or swapping the Motronic Relay with your spare.

 

RB

[elkroeger]

Perhaps this guy may be of some help? From what I can tell, he's just down the road.

 

 

 

"Bob's Motorwerks LLC

Bob Clement

 

(406) 445-2044

bmwmontana@aol.com

 

132 Blanchard Butte Rd. near Roberts, in southcentral Montana (about a mile off the famous Beartooth Highway)

 

My shop specializes in the care and feeding of all airhead BMW's built between 1955 and 1995. I am a factory certified mechanic for airhead and two valve K model BMW's having owned and worked on BMW motorcycles for over 40 years."

 

Source:

 

http://www.ibmwr.org/dealers-independent.shtml