Stalls after short run, Starts right back up..

[scottnew]

I'm finally back working on the r11rt project and having issues. I got the new starter & battery installed last night. Put the new rear tire on this afternoon, did a once over and pulled her out the garage naked (without the plastics that is .. Gave it a little choke and it fired right up running nicely.. After warming up to two bars, I hit the road and went around my neighborhood a few times (probable a total of a few miles).. It got to 5 bars and the smoke started to come out the exhaust- smells like oil burning.. (I have checked multiple times and to the best of my knowledge the oil is not overfilled). However, even smoking a little it ran really smoothe and had plenty of power, shifted great. On the down side, after going a few miles it started to hold a higher RPM range upon backing off the throttle- somewhere around 2000-3000.. It was a very obvious high rev.. As I would come to a stop it would give a little blip like it wsnted to cut off. I then decided it was a sign that I needed to get home. Once home I found If I turned the handlebars all the way to the right it would stall out.. This was very annoying as I have to do some interesting twisty turny stuff to get around my house and into the garage. For the last few feet before my entrance to the garage it cut off about 4-5 times.. It would start right back up, but as soon as I turned the bsrs the least little bit it would cut off. for my final attempt at parking I had to give it half choke and pop it into first with it at a high rpm just to keep it running long enough to get through the door.. Would have pushed it in, but theres a hill going into my place and to tell the truth at this point I was just plain tired..

Note: I raised the tank to install the new battery- would it be possible to pinch the throttle cable somehow when doing such?

 

UPon inspection, the cable does not appear to be pinched, however, when the bars are at full right it does put pressure on the cable where it exits the throttle. Also, its been on the center stand a good half hour now and the oil sight glass is totally full, I'm so lost at this point..

[dirtrider]

Evening Scott

 

It doesn't sound like a cable problem as that usually causes an elevated idle speed not a stall.

 

My best guess is you have a broken wire in the wire harness running beside the front steering neck (right near the front tie strap).

 

To try & isolate the problem get it running again then reach in & grab the wires harness & wiggle, pull, & twist on it. If that causes a stall or irregularity in the engine running you have probably found your problem area.

 

You can also maybe put it on the center stand then turn the handle bars & see if it cuts out. If it does & you can't find any obvious cable displacement then again suspect a broken wire in that harness near the front tie strap.

 

[scottnew]

Thanks for the help Dirtrider it is always very helpful I just went out and started it up- started just fine. I wiggled the wires as you mentioned and was unable to replicate the stall. But, I did find that when I turn the bars all the way to the right I get a quick rev and then it wants to stall.. I also found that my sight glass still shows totally full of oil, or overfilled for that matter.. I'm confused about the oil as I was very particular to follow spec- when it was drained and refilled along with the filter.. I can fix the oil issue though I of course do not see that having any effect on my rev/stall issue.. I will have to sleep on this one and take all advice given and get back to it tomorrow after work.. Next step I would say is to cut unto the wire harness you mentioned and inspect every wire for a cracks..

[dirtrider]

Evening Scott

 

If you still have the plastic removed-- with the bike still on the center stand turn the bars back & forth while watching the Throttle Body cams (engine not running).

 

If the right hand one moves when turning the bars you might have found your problem. The left TB cam moving will just raise the engine speed.

But on the Right Hand side it will just let more air in but not enough fuel to run the engine.

 

[scottnew]

Good Evening To you as well Dirtrider,

Plastics are still off and I will sneak out to inspect the TB Cam here directly. So far all I can tell is maybe an issue with the cable itself where it comes out of the htrottle on the handle. It seems when I turn the bar all the way to the right that it hits the plastic that covers the tank where the furl fill up nozzle is located.. I can't find any broken or missing clips/ties of any sort but it seems as though something would've been there to keep it from binding.. What I see is that with the bar all the way over the cable gets pushed against the right fork tube and then is pressure is put on the cable where it makes the bend to come up to the throttle grip.. In other words the fork tube keeps the cable in place as the handle is turned, then the plastic on the very top of the tank binds it.. Nonetheless, it seems if that were the problem it would just rev up and not stall. Hence, I will run out and check the TB cams for movement. Your mention of extra air being introduced would make perfect sense..

 

EDit: It would appear that It may be a blasted electrical Gremlin as you first suspected. Checked both TB cams and I cannot detect even the slightes amount of movement in either.. Was hoping that was it as it seems it would've been an easier fix.. Oh well, tomorrows a new day and I now know exactly what I'll be doing after work.. I will post anything I do or do not find quickly as I want to get to the bottom of this issue..

[scottnew]

[/img]

 

Uploaded with [url=http://imageshack

 

A little pic of what I see.. Granted a fuzzy pic done with laptop, it took me long enough to finally sit down and figure out how to post pics here.. Problem at the moment or not, I'm giddy with excitement that I can post pics now

[Michaelr11]

Look carefully at the throttle cable on the right side of the bike as it enters the throttle body. It might not be sitting fully into the ferule where it is supposed to be seated. If I pull up on just the right side cable the engine sputters and stalls.

[roger 04 rt]

Thanks for the help Dirtrider it is always very helpful I just went out and started it up- started just fine. I wiggled the wires as you mentioned and was unable to replicate the stall. But, I did find that when I turn the bars all the way to the right I get a quick rev and then it wants to stall.. I also found that my sight glass still shows totally full of oil, or overfilled for that matter.. I'm confused about the oil as I was very particular to follow spec- when it was drained and refilled along with the filter.. I can fix the oil issue though I of course do not see that having any effect on my rev/stall issue.. I will have to sleep on this one and take all advice given and get back to it tomorrow after work.. Next step I would say is to cut unto the wire harness you mentioned and inspect every wire for a cracks..

 

Hi Scott,

I can't add anything to the handlebars/wires problem but I have a thought on your oil situation. Maybe all the all didn't drain from the oil cooler when you removed the old oil.

 

At my last oil change after warming up the bike, I put it directly on the center stand rather than on the sidestand first for 5-10 minutes to allow what was in the cooler to drain into the sump.

 

Of course as it was draining, I remembered that I should have gone to the sidestand first. So I rolled it off the centerstand with the oil pan underneath (or so I thought), leaned it onto the sidestand, and a lot more oil came gushing out--half a quart or so--all over the garage floor.

RB

[dirtrider]

-------

 

Edit: It would appear that It may be a blasted electrical Gremlin as you first suspected. Checked both TB cams and I cannot detect even the slightes amount of movement in either.. Was hoping that was it as it seems it would've been an easier fix.. Oh well, tomorrows a new day and I now know exactly what I'll be doing after work.. I will post anything I do or do not find quickly as I want to get to the bottom of this issue..

 

 

Morning Scott

 

If your throttle cable isn't moving the TB's then definitely spend some time checking out the wiring.

 

If you can't get your problem to show up by moving, pulling, or twisting the wire harness by the steering neck & tie straps then try pulling on or moving the little wire pig tail going into the bottom of the ignition switch. In the past I have seen a few with problems in that area.

 

Maybe try pulling on or moving the wire harnesses at the same time as moving the handlebars back & forth.

 

[scottnew]

Michaelr11,

Thanks for the tip.. Everything looks good on that note, I checked very carefully yesterday evening.. I will inspect again today just to be sure.

 

Roger,

I wondered almost the same thing last night as I was going to sleep.. I thought to my self that I maybe didn't let it sit long enough or must have gotton my order mixed up somehow.. I will get it running today and then follow yor advice to leave it on the sidestand for 10-15 minutes prior to putting it on the centerstand.. At that point if it still looks overfilled I'll drain some out and repeat as needed until its right, thank you..

 

Dirtrider,

I will not only try your procedures but will take the computer out with me as to make sure I don't miss a step or anything.. I will get to the bottom of this.. Plus, since I'll have the computer with me and now have the technology I'll snap some new pics and get them posted.. Thanks very much for the advice and time spent pondering my issue..

 

It may be evening before I'm free from work and able to mess with it, but as soon as I get home the garage will be my only direction

[philbytx]

Scott,

Also (carefully!!) check the drain plug on your Air box, you might have some oil in there blown via the breather.

[scottnew]

Hi Philbytx,

Just got a few quick minutes in to work on the bike during my lunch break.. Oddly enough my oil sight glass now shows about 2/3 the way full instead of overfilled, weird.. I started the bike and it fired right up.. Had to use about half choke, and let it stay choked until two bars or it would cut off. I checked the oil drain plug before I started it and nothing came out- it was however slightly wet with oil on on the plug once extracted and appeared to have some oil staining around the plastic where the tip inserts.. As if it had been wet with oil before- which it had- I drained a few ounces from it a while back.. Also, I did find that with the bike running I am able to get it to rev by slightly tugging on the throttle cable where it looked like it was pinching last night (Maybe-just maybe the electric gremlins are not in there after all ) In pulling on the throttle cable-and I mean ever so slightly, I was able to see the left TB Cam move just a little bit.. Thank you very much Dirtrider for the idea to pay attention to that in detail.. I pulled on wires, wiggled wires, turned the bar, ect and could only mimic my issue last night by a full right turn of the bar or by tugging the cable itself.

 

The only thing I can figure is my cable is in disarray.. I pulled it slightly from the bottom towards the top and it seems to have helped a little.. It still revs with the bar turned fully to the right but not as bad as last night. When I get back home this evening I will pull the bike back out foor a test run to see how it acts, hopefully with no stalling issues.. I'm still concerned with the smoking at 5 bars, and really don't know what to think of it.. If the oil isn't overfilled, no oil in the air box, new air filter, then what would cause it to smoke once fully warmed up.. It seems the longer it runs at and only at 5 bars the mroe it smokes. Its not a complete huge cloud of smoke, but it is steady coming out and smells of burning oil.. At less than forty thousand miles I would be shocked if it were something serious internally.. From what I learned on the forum a while back it was highly unlikely for it to need rings or anything as they are virtually indestructable..

[scottnew]

Saturday evening,

Raining here steady so not as much working time as had hoped. No real pics to show as other than a bike sitting not much to photograph.I am quite stumped though.. I ran the bike and I am getting many vairable RPM ranges. Get it started from cold no problem with a little "Choke." As I hit one-two bars I drop the choke and it idles just fine- for a few minutes. Next thing you I know it just cuts off after having sat at 1100-1200 rpms for the entire several minutes without so much as a little skip. Start it again and nothing happens unless I choke it.. This time it runs but holds near 2000 rpms and doesn't drop at all upon backing off the choke.. I rev it a few times to see if that will settle it out and nothing.. Turn off again, this time manually, give it a minute ago and fire it off and it sits right at 1100 or so rpms again.. Any ideas what would cause such a fluctuation in rpms like so? I have not gotton to the HES sensor replacement yet, and plan to, but I have also not gotton the bike anywhere near water or anything.. In order to run it today I set up fans all over the place, backed the tail out the front door of the garage, opened the back door of the garage, ran the ac unit, and never let it run for to long as to not over heat it. If its the a HES sing of failure I will happily go to that next, but it seems more like something else to me.. Not a pro though by any means so I'll take all advice and try it.. One other thing, the right TB seemed to make some odd fast paced clicky noises today.. Maybe I should be leaning more towards worn bushings or parts in that area..

 

Ok I lied, a pic.. This is a terrible pic but best I could do with what I had to show the routing of throttle cable. It comes from the bottom of the grip and comes down the right side of the fork.. Can't see any other way for it to run, but if someone sees or knows of it running differenly I'm all ears.. Its the way it was when I got the bike so for all I know it might have been messed with.. I dought it though as it looks right and also hase the BMW print on it..

 

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[Michaelr11]

Just got a few quick minutes in to work on the bike during my lunch break.. The only thing I can figure is my cable is in disarray.. I pulled it slightly from the bottom towards the top and it seems to have helped a little.. It still revs with the bar turned fully to the right but not as bad as last night.

Check your throttle cables, expecially the right one - do you have some free play in the cables? At full right lock you should have approximately 0.5 mm free play.

[scottnew]

Good morning Michael,

Will be checking free play as you mentioned today and thanks for the spec. I pulled the Big brass screws this morning from the TB's and they are black with gunk build-up, not the first time this has happened.. I assume its related to my oil burning issue. I'm hoping this is old crud that built up and will slowly burn off as I run it more and more.. I would like to get it running steady enough to run it like a bat out of hell... I have to wonder though if the TB's don't need to be pulled and cleaned/gone through really well.. I def need to sort out my throttle cable issue as well. But surely the nasty Brass screws amongst the TB's isn't helping my fluctuating RPM? I used a flash light and mirror combination to look through the holes where the brass screw was removed from and its black with build-up.. Pulled the vac lines from the bottom, put a few shots of throttle body cleaner through each and all sorts of black gross stuff dripped out.. The saga continues lol.. At least I have plenty to keep me busy as to not get bored..

[Galactic Greyhound]

On my '96 R1100RT the throttle cable comes from the grip, to the rear of the RH fork tube, then goes between the rubber M/C brake line and the headstock and onto a plastic retainer clip which appears to be clipped to a large rubber oil pipe. The cable then disappears under the fairing.

 

Check that the vacuum take-offs underneath the throttle bodies (TBs) have got their rubber caps fitted, that the caps are tight fitting and not cracked/perished. Also check that the rubber intake stubs on the cylinder head for the TBs are not cracked/perished and the securing clips are tight.

 

Re the 'clicky' noises from the RH TB, put a finger on the throttle cable pulley wheel and see if this stops the clicking and affects the idling - it may be a worn throttle butterfly shaft/bushing.

 

LATER EDIT: Just seen your last post - +1 on the carb cleaner up the vac tubes. I cleaned my BBS ports out by removing the vac caps and purging the BBS holes with brake cleaner until it ran clear from the vac tubes. I also reverse purged from the vac tube ends. If the BBS ports were blocked/partially blocked last time you did a throttle balance it's going to affect the idling.

 

Also, the 'clicky' noise may be an injector - they click when operating. Use a screwdriver as a listening device and put the end on an injector body and the handle to your ear when the bike is idling. Check the LH injector sound against the RH - they should sound the same with no gaps in the clicking sound which might be caused by a sticking injector.

[scottnew]

Hi Galactic Greyhound,

Good advice there I'll get right on the checks asap this morning. I will trace the Throttly cable per yours also to see if mine follows the same path.. Going on memory I want to say that it does. I know the cable routes under the tank in its path, I believe I may be pulling the tank again to verify I have not crossed something up.. I never pulled the cable before, but its not to say I didn't somehow pinch it somewhere or who knows what .

[dirtrider]

Morning Scott

 

You seem to be getting some different things happening now than was happening in your initial post with the stalling issue while turning the handlebars.

 

SO, lets go back to square one & start over so we can cover all the bases.

 

Exactly when did your stalling while turning the handle bars start happening? Had you done any work to the bike just before that started happening? Give us some history on when your current problems started & if anything was done to the bike about that time frame.

 

Your new problem of a high or unstable idle RPM seems to have just happened. But you weren’t riding the bike at the time so maybe you still have the stalling issue. We won't know that until you can ride the bike again.

 

So, you might have 2 distinct issues or they could be related.

 

In any case, the main thing that could effect BOTH the stall while turning the bars & the erratic idle RPM would probably be throttle body /or/ throttle cable /or/vacuum leak related.

 

It seems that anything that happed to the upper throttle cable (like mis-routing or being tight) could effect the high or erratic idle but not the stalling while turning the bars issue as anything that happens ABOVE the bowden box would only cause a higher idle not a stall. One tight lower (usually R/H) throttle cables could effect your issue so verify both lower cables have some slack at idle (with choke off)

 

Something like a broken return spring on the R/H throttle body could cause both your issues as well as a sticking R/H throttle plate or even a loose throttle body in it's engine side boot or possibly a cracked engine side intake boot, or even something like loose screws on the R/H throttle plate or heavy coking inside the throttle bore.

 

So, before doing much else reach in & manually open both side throttle body cams to verify they aren't sticking & that the spring pressure on the cams is about the same. (make sure the return springs are intact)

 

Next, with it running & acting up with that high idle RPM again reach in & manually verify both side throttle body cams are tight against their idle stop screws. If one side isn't fully against it's throttle stop screw find out why (maybe a tight cable or mis-routed lower cable).

 

Next, see if lightly moving the throttle bodies around in their engine side boots effect the idle RPM or quality. Maybe you have a leaking or cracked intake side rubber boot.

 

Once you get your erratic idle problem under control then go after the stalling while turning the bars if that problem is still there.

 

[scottnew]

(Reply to Michael and Dirtrider)

Great tips Michael on the Screw driver to injector trick I'll get out there and try that directly after my daughters soon to start nap time. I did get some time in to fiddle with things to today after cleans BBS and throttle bodys. I'll come back to that..

 

Dirtrider,You are exactly right that I have different things happening now from my earlier post. I believe that when I had the tank up the other day installing my new battery that I must have somehow snagged my throttle cable.. I don't know how, but that is my best guess. I lightly pulled up on the cable from where it runs up to the grip. It moved out probable a half inch or so, was a farily light tug.

Its hard for me to say exactly when the stalling issue started with the bars turned, as I didn't notice it until I rode the bike last week. I posted on this thread as soon as it happened. This was the first time i had been able to ride this bike in sadly a couple of months. I would start it every few weeks, but never let it get past three bars.

Up until today I really haven't done much with this bike to speak of. It sat four years before I got it.. It was non-running at that point. THe previous owner had taken half the plastics off and then in an attempt to drain the oil they removed the bolt that holds the cam chain guide. From what I was told it was never messed with again after that as they could'nt get that bolt to go back in. Thankfully, the bike was stored inside after this took place and has been since I took ownership (I paid little to nothing for the bike as I understood it could be a total loss). Once i got the bike, it took me forever to figure out how in the world to get that bolt back in. Finally, with valve cover off, I was able to carefully fish a small piece of stiff wire down into the motor and lift the guide while at the same time turning the bolt so that it would catch. I then proceeded to remove the old battery, get my test battery in place, drain the tank, replace hoses and fuel filter inside the tank, drain all the fluids and replace (have changed oil sever times now to clean things up), and waa-laa it started up. It smoked like it was running diesel for a while but slowly got better- finally to the point where it didn't smoke unless fully warmed up. At that point I adjusted the valves, cleaned throttle body's like mentioned in earlier post, balanced TBS and I think thats it.

Its no surprise to me that I have quite a few bugs to work out. I don't mind though. Just the satisfaction of getting it to run has really been self motivating. I had serious doubt when i got it that it would ever hit the road without my taking it to someone.. Which, I still have yet to rule out over the long haul.

 

Todays functiong: to the best of my ability both tbs seem to have the same spring rate and all the boots are intact, without cracks and appear all the way in place with hardware tight. I have not removed the TBs and can't be 100% sure that everything behind them that I cannot see is good, but it looks so. I did manually rev the motor via the cams as you mentioned and they seem ok. After cleaning the really dirty BBS and shooting TB cleaner through I had interesting results. A lot of black muck came out after the cleaning via the TB cleaner dripping out, in small sprays. After the cleaning, it was quite the challange to get it running again. It took several attempts and had to really work the choke. Once it fired it was a very subtle run at first and then slowly built up RPMs. TO my surprise it didn't smoke very badly, even at 4 bars which I never ever let it get to before sitting still. However, this time I did, under fans running, let it run to 4 bars and kept a close eye on things. It still wanted to hover around almost 2000 RPMS.. Then, I cut it off and let it sit for twenty minutes to cool. GO out to start it again to see how hard it is, and it fires up nicely. This time it sits right in the 1200 RPM range and stays there for a few minutes as it reaches 4 bars before I kill it. It seems I get a different result everytime I run it. ALthough, it does seem smoother today after the cleaning. Rain permitting, I will pull it out for a ride after nap time and report back the results. Hech, at this point it'll be interesting just to see how it idles/runs after sitting a few hours.

 

ALso, I inspected the vac lines, and although I cannot see any breaks in them I must admit the rubber is a liittle harder that I'd like to see. I think you may be on to something with it possible being vac related. Guess I need to get some new Vac tubing, replace it all, and then see what happens its all a puzzle to me, but i like puzzles.. Thanks everyone for bearing wth me on this project and for the terrific advice and intellect..

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Scott

 

It sounds like you are getting there. Your history of the bike helps a bit.

 

A couple more things to check come to mind.

 

First is the evap canister (if you still have that on the bike), that is the black can on the rear frame rail. If that has become fuel logged from sitting & fuel evaporation your engine might be sucking raw fuel fumes in after it warms up a bit & the purge solenoid opens. To see if that is your problem remove the hoses from the bottom fitting on both TB's & plug these fittings with rubber caps or short pieces of hose with something like a golf tee in the hose. Plug the bottom fitting off on the TB's. If that makes it idle better you probably have a fuel logged evap can.

 

 

Next, sniff the crankcase oil, you seem to think it is overfilled so maybe somehow you have some raw fuel in the crankcase. If you have raw fuel in the crankcase that can work it's way up past the piston rings when the oil warms up. That can add fuel to the combustion raising the idle speed as well as make some black smoke come out the rear.

 

You REALLY need to get that bike out & run it a bit to get it real warm as well as burn all that crap out of the engine.

 

[roger 04 rt]

There are a couple things the Motronic commands after the bike hits 3-5 bars:

 

1. As DR mentioned, the canister purge valve is opened.

 

2. The O2 sensor is used as the Closed Loop fueling reference. The O2 sensor could be unplugged if the other suggestions don't pay off. This will keep the bike in Open Loop.

[scottnew]

(Dirtrider and Roger)

First things first- now that roger mentions it (the 02 sensor) I have to admit I forgot to mention that I have its replay pulled. I feel pretty sure that the 02 sensor is clogged and removed it a few months ago when doing sometesting, per good information from this site. That being said, thanks Roger for the tip nonetheless..

 

I really hadn't even considered the idea of the canister being clogged and think you are both onto something with that notion. Its three thirty here now and pooring down rain, and we are having a late day- s nap time for the little one and probably myself is just now arriving-late. But that will not, I repeat NOT stop me from following Dirtriders advice/steps on capping the lines and whatnot to test it. Here in a couple hours I run out, give it a shot and see what happens.. Worse case scenerio I run it from the garage again if its still raining and see what happens. I totally agree that it needs to be run a bunch to get all the crud burned off. Hopefully, these little changes here and there will be enough to get it somewhat reliable enough to do so without the walk of shame home.. As a one man show i hate to think of having to push thhis thing home.. I don't think I could get it on my trailer by myself if it wasn't running.. But I won't worry with that.. Whatever happens happens and I'll take it with a grain of salt. Thanks for the continued help fellas.. Update comes this evening

[scottnew]

First and foremost I owe you an apology Dirtrider, and a BIG THANKS

As it turns out you were on to something early on with your Diagnosis of my idle issue. I just started the bike and did a run up to four bars- stationary. I did the Evaporation Canister by-pass as mentionned by you. Between your input on that being the culprit and Roger mentioning that it opens around 3-5 bars I figured you two had hit the nail on the head.

 

It started faster today than I think it ever has.. took little to no choke and hardly turned over before it was running. For the first bar it sat around 1000 rpm, a little weak it seemed. By to bars and there after it picked up until it was near 15-1700 rpms. Then, I rememered your (Dirtrider) advice on checking TB CAM play and checking the stop screws that the CAMs stop against.. Both CAMs meet the stop screws. However, I found that the left TB CAM evidently has the ever so slightes amount of movement in it. If I put a finger on that CAM and apply some pressue outward the RPM stops fluctuating instantly and from everything I can tell settles right down to around 1200 RPMs. Then, it runs smoother that I have ever witnessed. I am truly amazed at just how smooth these motors can run.. SO, I'm not entirely sure about how to fix this wiggle in the CAM issue, but at least we have located what I believe to be the idle Gremlin Also, I don't know if it is gone for sure and if the evap Canister is playing any part with the smoking, but at four bars there's not even the slightest puff coming out. Granted, to my recollection it usally smokes at 5 bars after running a bit. I believe that may finally clear up as suggested upon running the heck out of it.. Which I fully intend to do once I settle out this Idle/TB CAM issue thingy.

I originally checked the CAMs for movement/tightness/spring tension as told.. Obviously, as a newby to this I had no idea just how sensitive these bikes are. THe CAM appears to move a ittle with the vibration of the bike.. ANd just that little tiny, not noticable to the eye amount of movement makes all the difference in the world. ITs really cool- only it'll be even cooler once the problem is fixed. Either way I'll sleep well tonight just knowing the problem seems to be showing up on the radar.

All that said- as mentioned I can settle the idle out by applying slight pressure from behind the CAM pulling outward.. It also seemed to help if I put my finger under the bottom of the cam and pull it backwards towards the way it would naturally hit the stop screw.. Sorry for not exact terminology (or spelling for that matter)..

Soooo, with all this CAM stuff, are these things hard tro work on? Maybe I'm liucky and just have to maek some adjustments? I know that's hard to answer without seeing it, but I'm happy to follow any/all advice.. Except now--- with a closer Eye. I can't believe how early on you suspected CAM issues Dirtrider and how dang sensitive they are.. Thanks again

 

Last thing- I'll be all over this thing tomorrow after work- inspecting/reading here & applying knowledge.. I have read on this site in the past about (I believe) CAM bushings or something getting worn out.. As a newby- if that is the case should I be messing with it or is that a send it off to someone kind of job? At this point I don't know if its Bushing, cable,spring, or ??? LOL

[dirtrider]

Evening Scott

 

First thing lets address that choke thing. Even though your little lever says choke it really isn't a choke. ALL that choke lever does is increase the throttle opening a little (very same thing as twisting the twist grip). It doesn't richen the fuel as a real choke would, ONLY increases the idle speed.

 

On your throttle body cam finding. From what you found that sort of points to tight throttle cables even though you can't see it.

 

So I'm going to suggest you back the upper cable off a bit just to eliminate that as an issue on your erratic idle.

 

To do that look up by the twist grip for a rubber boot covering the throttle cable. Slide that boot down the cable then loosen the adjuster & put some more slack in the upper cable. You want the twist grip to feel a bit loose for the first couple of degrees of turn. See if that helps your erratic idle issue.

 

[scottnew]

I wondered just how the "Choke" worked on these bikes as I had read here that they were not exacly a choke.. Fast Idle adjuster fits better and it seems like I've heard it called that here..

I can say that my throttle is very touchy and that the slightest amount of movement/twist increases the idle. I will adjust that cable first thing monday afrternoon after work as told. That would be great if all it needed was a little slack in the cable to fix the issue. Either way, if nothing else I'm sure that slack being there will eliminate one thing so that we can move to the next.. On the other hand, it would'nt surprise me in the least if it did fix it. Just as the whole CAM issue you mentioned right off the bat, that I totally missed, was the issue to begin with.. I must say- if it was not for all of the help I have received on this forum this roject would be a lost cause for me- or would take a whole lot longer and cost big bucks- as I would sooner or later resort to buying unneeded parts or handing it over to the dealer- which would be cost prohibitive- since if the dealer had it I would be better off just finding and buying a different bike that was ready to go..

[scottnew]

So I followed your directions Dirtrider and put some slack in the throttle Cable.. Thank you and Michael for that advice as you have both brought it up in earlier post as well as latter..

 

This adjustment made a nice improvement in my high RPM issue as well as the issue with the REV issue it was having with the Bars to the full right.. I am very pleased with this and feel like the Bike is starting to show a positive future..

 

I also believe that the Evaporation Canister By-pass is helping things, but I'll come back to that.

 

I made the cable adjustment today. Started the bike (which fired up very nicely and with great ease, "Fast idle lever" was not needed, it sat right in the 1200 rpm range all the way up to five bars. (It makes me really nervous letting it idle up to that temp even with fans on it) It has a little more shake/bumpness to the run now but I assume that is idle/TB sync related, overall it ran much better in terms of RPMs. Catch, for the brief moment it was at five bars I gave it a quick twist of the throttle and albeit it revved- it gave out a little cough and then held the rpm at almost 2000 until I cut it off. At this point I was to the point I felt I had to kill it or risked Killing it with heat- the sight glass popping out gives my the willy's..

 

I let it sit for approx ten-fifteen minutes and then restarted it.. Fired right up and sat at 1100-1200 RPMs.. I revved it a time or two and it came back down to 11-1200.. Maybe I didn't rev it as much, I know it was a slight rev each time though.. SO that's where I sit with it right now.. With the slack in the Throttle cable I can actually hear the TB CAMs tap the stop screws now which I had never heard before (More so with it not running). Not sure if that's good or bad but it doesn't bother me in the least so I hope its ok.

 

As for the evaporation canister: It is still by-passed, if I can I would love to eliminate that thing altogether forever if its not important to longevity (Not concerned with the Carbon footprint as I feel I already do my part to limit that riding a BIke and using less fuel than most people).

 

For the first time today- with the canister by-passed, it only let out a little smoke at full temp when it first go to the 5th bar.. I didn't see any smoke on the second start either. Is there a chance that the canister was feeding old nasty unspent fuel back to the motor that could maybe have caused my smoking issue? Maybe wishful thinking, the real test will be riding it around, at which point I fully expect a little smoke here and there until I burn off four years of sitting (actually its five years, I've been messing with it here and there for almost a year now- just not as seriously as lately).

 

With all that said- I really want to get out and run it on the road, but I would feel much better about my and the Bikes health if I could take care of the rest of this little RPM issue after revving it along with smoothe things out some. I believe it idles better now- but isn't quite as nice a purr now as I have seen in the past.. TOtally feel like its headed in the right direction though now

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Scott

 

Yes a saturated evap can could have been adding to your smoke after warm up. But just running it every day is probably burning the oil out if the lower combustion chamber & cat.

 

It sounds like you are getting there so now it needs to be ridden a bit then the TB's balanced.

 

As to removing the exap system? -- sure go ahead. As a rule I don't advocate removing a passive emission control system like the evap system but it sounds like yours is pretty well saturated so not much loss.

 

To do that you should see 3 vacuum hoses going into that rear can.

 

*One going to the L/H side of the bike to a solenoid (remove or plug that one off.

*One going to fuel tank R/H side, that's the fuel tank vent (find & identify that one)

*One going to down behind the R/H foot peg (find & identify that one)

 

Once all 3 are identified-- just plug or remove the one going to that L/H side solenoid. Then use a little connector & simply hook the other 2 remaining together. That will exit the tank vent hose to behind the R/H foot peg. Then use a knife or side cutter & cut that hose that exits behind the R/H foot peg to have an angle cut on the outlet end (prevents water being sucked in when riding in the rain)

 

[scottnew]

Well that sounds like a winner to me. I'm not against getting a new canister down the road either, but I would just assume hold off on that for a while until the rest of the bugs are worked out. Or a permanent by-pass with the re-routing you mentioned would be the other option. For all I know those little canisters are really expensive or hard to get?? Either way, I'll get the ol'glory out the garage and on the road tomorrow after work and weather permitting run it every day to try and clean out/burn stuff off. THanks again for the help and I will update as the project continues to come along, and of course throw in some pics once all the plastic is buttoned back up

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Scott

 

Just a caution: If you are going to ride it with the plastic removed make darn sure ALL those little J clips that the screws go in are tight. Or better yet run a wire, string, or small tie strap through each one.

 

Those little J clips have a habit of disappearing if not tight or restrained.

 

[scottnew]

+1 for that Dirtrider. Hadn't considered such an issue and I would've been looking all over the Garage for those things. I will be riding without the plastic on for a while until it quits smoking and I get to the next stage. Once the motor has panned out I need to: finish up on wrapping wiring with new insulation since the old black protective stuff has dried out in many areas an is falling off, replace/rewire the HES (for safe lomng term reliability), replace alt. belt, replace rear rotor and pads all the way around, and then see what can be done with getting those ABS lights to stop flashing.. I'm not totally bent on having ABS as long as the regular brakes work- but I'd at least like to look into fixing them..

[BrianM]

Afternoon Scott

 

Just a caution: If you are going to ride it with the plastic removed make darn sure ALL those little J clips that the screws go in are tight. Or better yet run a wire, string, or small tie strap through each one.

 

Those little J clips have a habit of disappearing if not tight or restrained.

 

I just put the bolts back in to hold them in place.

 

[scottnew]

That would work as well Of course then my shop table would look a little less cluttered.. But no matter how hard I try I can't keep the table cleared off. If its not one project its another as I'm constantly messing with something out there.. Prior to this bike project I was cutting up stained glass for a bird house

[scottnew]

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

 

 

 

So here's the latest:

RPM stuck at around 1800 once I first hit the throttle to get moving. It stayed in that area for the better part of the time while riding it for about a falf hour this afternoon. I believe it would come down briefly when I first let out the clutch to get going from a stop. After about five minutes of ride time and at 5 bars the smoking came back. However, it really ran great othe than the smoke and RPMs. NOt a skip or stall to it. Fluctuated speeds from cruising around twenty mph to seventy briefly. Once I got home and parked it the smoke was coming out pretty good. I turned it off, and watched the exhaust keep smoking for a few minutes. Foolishly, I took a cloth and wiped up the little puddle of black goo on the tip of the exhaust. I didn't burn myself, I just wish I would've left it there for the pic. Anyhew, I started it back up for a pic figuring it would smoke; it didn't- but I'm sure it would've had I ridden it some. On the plus side the RPMs stayed at 1100 when I restarted it and even revved it a few time and couldn't get the RPMS to stick above 1100 to replicate what it was doing while I rode it. The pic of the bike itself is with it running breifly at five bars sitting still. The other pic is obvious- notice the black gooey muck coming out.. I'll keep running it everyday in hopes of burning the smoke causing stuff off. Its almost like there is a puddly of hard oily goo settled in the exhaust below the motor that only turns to liquid when its really good and hot. And its that point and that point only that it starts to smoke and work its way out the exhaust. Some in liquid form, the other in smoke..

[tallman]

It seems to be improving.

Didn't recheck the thread, but have you changed the oil?

I remember you saying you checked about overfilling.

 

We had an RT come in that had sat, it had some of your issues

wrt smoking.

When we drained the oil a thick black gunk came out along with some

oil.

May not be anything helpful but with all the sitting and running

I'd want to eliminate something easy to do like an oil/filter

change and throw a new air filter in too.

If I missed you doing this, sorry, but I like to put the machines

on a course of simplicity first.

Fresh oil/filters, along with your cable adjustment, will eliminate

some things.

If you get black gunk out of the oil drain, consider adding something like sea foam to the new oil, ride the crap out of the bike for a while and change oil again.

Probably not helpful but who knows?

Good luck.

[scottnew]

Hi Tallman,

I have changed the oil/oil filter/ and air filter., but thanks for the advice. I have not had anymore issues with the overfilled oil- it seems that was a onetime thing and has since showed proper levels every time I checked it. When I first got the bike I had a pretty good bit of oil come out of the air box. Air filter was full of oil as well. I checked the air filter again about a week ago and there was not a spec of oil on it or in the airbox, nice to see.

 

I had a thought last night- I'm not sure if it would work, or run right, surely be loud, but I was considering pulling the exhaust to run it and see if the smoking issue would stop without it. It really seems that there is this major build-up of gunk trapped in the exhaust that only smokes once the exhaust gets hot enough for the oil/junk/gunk to hit its flash point..

 

Or, I leave it as is and keep running it every afternoon until the stuff all burns off. I hope hope hope its not a broken ring.. But from what I've heard here its very rare for a ring to go out on these motors. If it was a ring it seems like it wouldn't wait until five bars and hot exhaust to start smoking- but I don't know that much about how the broken ring thing works..

[tallman]

Good news on the maintenance.

 

I'd give it an (pc incorrect) "Italian tune up".

Ride it hard, hit the rev limiter, refrain from long idling.

Ride the heck out of it.

Has fixed more than one buildup issue.

 

Good luck.

[scottnew]

I'm with ya Tallman (Ironic name as i'm 6'4" myself)

 

Pulled the Bike out today for my daily run; started her up and it did the same 1800ish RPM rev where it just sits there.. Got up to four Bars- putted around the yard and it stayed at the 1800 level.. Turned it off- gave it a few minutes- started it back up and it sat right at about 1200 RPM's or so, and I could not get the RPM to stick high again at all- not even after a rev or two.

So I pulled out the driveway and ran the @#$% out of it for a good 45 minutes or so. I gotta say it ran pretty good too. Thankfully the smoking issue seems to really be calming down- I reckon all that crud is finally burning off. I did see six bars today though and I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. I say it only makes sense after pushing it pretty hard.. I got some really odd looks from people riding that thing without any plastic, all exposed and whatnot.. That coupled with the motor screaming was a sight to see.. I also now know my front forks are shot.. I'm getting all sorts of squeaky noises with every bump I hit.. I'm hoping seals and oil will cure that.. All in all a good day of testing though

[philbytx]

Scott,

Squeaky noise from your front end could be as simple as the shock pivot bushing needing some grease !

 

 

[philbytx]

To hold the speed nuts on, I use the twist ties from our local supermarket

[scottnew]

Thanks Phil,

Grease shock pivot bushing Noted- Will Do

 

Took it out for my daily after work ride again today and I can happily say the smoking has ceased to exist- thanks to everyone for pushing my to oush the bike and burn that stuff off.. I have to admit I was worried for a while that it was something more serious.. I guess that's why I shoud always follow the kiss rule (Keep it simple Stuid)

 

But not to worry- I have a new paranoia now: I noticed a bit of a whine today at higher RPMs- kinda sounds like something loose- transmission/drive related.

 

When I first got the Bike up and running I changed all the oils/gear/drive- ect.. I can't remember what I put into what but I did follow the manual and purchased everything from the dealer.

 

On a positive note the bike goes into first unlike any bike I have ever owned. If it wasn't for the display telling me its in gear I would have no idea- other that releasing the clutch lever. It seems to shift just fine through all gears. Some have a little clunkyness to them but I attribute that to the newness of the bike to me. Are these bikes generally a little noisy in the drivetrain area while rolling down the road- say 30-50 mph? Anyone?

[Boffin]

Do you have Pilot Road tyres fitted? These give a whine that sounds very mechanical.

 

Andy

[scottnew]

No sir, as of now I have a Dunlop Sportmax on the rear and Bridgestone on the front.. I do need a new frpnt tire soon- at which point I'll get it matched to the rear.. That would've been great if it was my tires

 

I didn't think about it until i went to sleep last night but I know there will be many questions as to when my Whine occurs: As of now (going off memory) It doesn't make it sitting still, and the clutch being pulled in when moving does makeit stop- best I can recall. Its not extremely loud- but I can hear it no problem once moving good. I'm gonna run it this afternoon and pay ery close attention and try all the stuff I've read here off and on for a while and post as many details as possible this evening. I am absolutely NOT tearing into final drive or anythng right away. Honestly, I'm just happy the smoking stopped and I'll sort through this issue once I post the results and get some feedback.. I may drain the Drive and try Dirtriders wedged sidestand filling trick and see if that helps..

[scottnew]

Reply to myself- believe I answered my own question. Still gonna change fluid for good measure.. Did some research this morning and I believe according to some old articles online that my noise is normal. It is better described as a whirring sound that is in the lower gears 1-4. More in 1st and less from there on out. Evidently, according to the article, these bike tend to make a little noise due to play and straight cut gears.. I have no noise whatsoever in neutral and can rev the motor all day long in neutral and never here the first thing.. So I'm all smiles again going off the belief that the article is accurate. Of course I opened a new tad and closed the old before I had the forethought to copy and paste it here for review.. But I'm in rare form the last two days running on way to little sleep. Gotta get our dog to the Vet- has started this weird middle of the night itching thing that wakes ya fom a dead sleep..

 

Sleepless in Charleston & probable no bike toying today- napping instead after work.. Did re-sync TB's yesterday with nice improvement

[tallman]

The gears are cut in such a way that engaging 1st and downshifting from 2nd to first can take practice, even letting clutch lever out a bit to get in 1st.

If you shift to N when you stop it can be hard to get back in 1st, this is typical. (BTW I don't suggest being in N sitting at light).

[scottnew]

Well that's nice to know because I've noticed several times that going from neutral to first can take some effort sometimes. It seems to shift better from 1st to 2nd and so on if i preload the shifter a little directly prior to pulling in on the clutch lever. All in all it seems to shift well. I know my DL1000 Vstrom took some practice to get it shifting nicely. When I first got the bike it was not a happy shifter. Nowadays since I have become one with the bike it shifts very well. So I assume with time I'll have the RT shifting like butter too, or atleast close to it. Thanks for the reassuring tid bit

[Dave Parry]

(BTW I don't suggest being in N sitting at light).

--------------

Why's that then Tallman, it's much better than sitting there in gear with clutch lever held in and causing unnecessary wear to the release mechanism,

 

Dave.

[scottnew]

That's a good question..

 

Well, took her out for a ride inbetween rain here today and bike is running jam up Thanks to everyone for helping me get to this point.. No more smoke- not even a little hint of a puff here and there, love it !

 

So now onto Brake work:

So far I have really not done to much in terms of brakes on this bike. I flushed out all the fluid front and rear and removed and cleaned the rear ABS sensor. I know for a fact that I need a rear rotor as it is grooved beyond salvage, oh well. The front rotors look great.. I did the ABS reset test today and the reset was a success, but not the operation. I'll be doing the blink code test thingy tomorrow to see what comes up. I'm not sure what is going on. After the ABS reset I started the bike and didn't get ten feet before the front brakes made a strange noise that I can only relate to stepping on a childs ball and squeezing all of the air out. It had a slight squeek type noise followed by what almost sounded like a pressure release.. Then the lights went back to flashing back and fourth. I then hit the ABS button on the dash while I was riding (because the alternating flashes get on my nerves) and only the bottom ABS light stayed on.. Brakes work pretty dang well overall though even if I don't have operational ABS. I would like the ABS to work in the long run, just because the Bike has them and I like stuff to work. On the other hand, if it turns out to be some crazy expensive (Thousands ?) to fix it I'll do without..

 

I have some good tabs for the brake system saved under my favorites, but I know I'll need some help here (just to for warn in advance)..

 

I did try to remove the front ABS sensor this afternoon to no avail. Screws came right out but the sensor itself didn't want to budge.. I then proceeded to get outr the dremmel with a fine wire brush and worked to remove rust from the front ABS ring.. What a PIA that was. Not sure if it will help anything but if nothing else it looks much better.. Hopefully it won't rust back up overnight (Least the Bike stays stored in doors)

 

That's all I have for updates right now- more to come tomorrow after the Blink test code procedure..

[tallman]

(BTW I don't suggest being in N sitting at light).

--------------

Why's that then Tallman, it's much better than sitting there in gear with clutch lever held in and causing unnecessary wear to the release mechanism,

 

Dave.

 

Because people run into mc's there.

In gear, checking 6, angled slightly to allow quick pull up into

space between vehicle ahead.

If you're first there in line, looking for a way to move out of the way of cage trying to occupy your space.

Many reason examples of a rider being killed or seriously injured in such cases.

 

If the vehicle behind has stopped and left room putting into N to rest hand is OK

but otherwise, I'm in gear and looking for a safe way out of trouble from behind.

YMMV

[scottnew]

Great point Tallman. I seem to remember reading some literature a while back that supports that

 

Late start messing with the Bike this evening on my part (School orientation for child was up first). Gotta question about the ABS test code procedure. After looking over the link provided earlier on this thread I have two ?'S:

1.) The article states that a test light be used which runs an LED.. It says that incandescent test light's are not good to use because they draw to much current. So, my question is (because I have an incandescent tester) will this current draw only be an issue as to draining the battery or, as I suspect, not give a true reading because it offsets the current needed to provide the blink test in some way- if that makes sense..

 

2.) As for doing the blink Code test; am I best to hook up my (LED) test light with it grounded and ready to do the test before I ever turn on the ignition. Then, wait for the fault to occur and count the blinks. Or, do I not want to do that because I may somehow mess up something in the system.

 

Just trying to be on the safe side. I'd rather ask now than scew something up and come with questions on how to un-fry the elictric system.. I know its hard to tell- but I am in no sort of fashion whatsoever an electrician

[Dave Parry]

Unless you were concentrating hard looking in your mirrors whilst stationary at the lights I really don't think you'd be able to pull forward quickly enough to avoid someone running into you from behind.