2013 air cooled R1200RT's

[KeithK]

So I am trying to find out if any 2013 R1200RT's will be produced (the current air-cooled motor). Everyone seems to think the water-cooled one will be a 2014 released after the 1st of the year. Was thinking about trading my 2006 for the last of the air-cooled ones so as to be able to use my Russell seat,top case,barbacks,etc. Not many 2012's left around here and I'm not in love with the color choices for 2012.

 

Keith

[OlGeezer]

So I am trying to find out if any 2013 R1200RT's will be produced (the current air-cooled motor). Everyone seems to think the water-cooled one will be a 2014 released after the 1st of the year. Was thinking about trading my 2006 for the last of the air-cooled ones so as to be able to use my Russell seat,top case,barbacks,etc. Not many 2012's left around here and I'm not in love with the color choices for 2012.

 

Keith

 

That's the story I'm getting from Long Beach BMW. The 2013s will have a water cooled GS (hence my purchase of a 2012) and RTs following the year after.

[Crawdad]

Bar backs dont work on the 2012. 2012 three holes.

[dirtrider]

Bar backs dont work on the 2012. 2012 three holes.

 

Evening Crawdad

 

Sure they work, the 3 hole is the same hole pattern as the 4 hole only missing one bolt. That extra hole is covered so the 4th bolt is just not used.

 

[mneblett]

Bar backs dont work on the 2012. 2012 three holes.

 

Evening Crawdad

 

Sure they work, the 3 hole is the same hole pattern as the 4 hole only missing one bolt. That extra hole is covered so the 4th bolt is just not used.

+1

 

When I installed the Wunderlich Vario barbacks on my 2012 RT, the 4 plates were all drilled for the 4-hole pattern of the '05-'09 bikes -- the only difference in the '10-'12 kits is Wunderlich leaves out the unused 4th bolt on each side.

[GordonB]

There are no changes for 2013. They will be the same colors and air coolness as the 2012.

Even the water cooled GS is delayed a year.

By aircooled if you want 2012.

 

[Mike0303]

 

Is that information from the source, i.e., BMW? I was planning to buy a 2013 R1200RT assuming it is air-cooled. But, if there will not be 2013 R1200RT air-cooled, then I'll be "forced to buy now."

 

There are no changes for 2013. They will be the same colors and air coolness as the 2012.

Even the water cooled GS is delayed a year.

By aircooled if you want 2012.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Mike

 

According to my BMW employed friend there should be no changes in the first part of the 2013 model year as none of their shop has been asked to attend any future release schools or new model introductions. If history is any indication BMW never releases a new (changed) model without training the tecs & bringing the sales personal up to date on the difference in the new releases. (basically can't sell or service a new changed model without proper training).

 

He really can't say if there will be a water cooled 2 cylinder model later in the 2013 model year but as far as he can tell nothing in the early part of 2013 anyhow.

 

[Mike0303]

Thanks!

 

Darn...now I don't have the excuse to tell my wife I have to buy now...

[KeithK]

Went for a 10 mile test ride on a'12 R1200RT today and though it is nice it is not leaps and bounds better IMO. I was hoping that more low-end power would make starting on an uphill slope a bit easier with the tall 1st gear but I didn't notice much difference. Nice bike but not enough improved for the 14000.00 difference they wanted. I will wait a couple of years for the wethead to get sorted out.

 

Keith

[TEWKS]

Have you ridden the K16GT? For about the same money ( I did anyway ) you could get yourself a bike that you would definitely notice a difference.

 

 

Pat

[KeithK]

I did ride it,but the riding position is not for me,I kinda feel too big for it with the tiller bars and low seating position. I think the 1200rt is the best bike ever for my taste, I just didn't feel like the dual cam upgrade was as huge an improvement as I had hoped. And I'm still waiting for a lower 1st gear, hopefully the wethead will address that.

 

Keith

[Paul Mihalka]

I did ride it,but the riding position is not for me,I kinda feel too big for it with the tiller bars and low seating position.

 

Keith

You must have ridden a K1600GTL, not a GT. What you describe is very much the GTL riding position. On the GT you sit very much like on a R1200RT, maybe even a smidge more lean-forward. Both GT and GTL are available with a low or a high seat. From the factory the GTL come with the low seat and the GT with the high seat.

[upflying]

First I heard of the Water Boxer. I was always under the impression the Hexhead was much like the Oilhead. Both oil and air are used for cooling. Was not aware the Hexhead was exclusively aircooled.

I guess the emission aand mpg monster is catching up with motorcycles. Liquid cooling is easier for engineers to keep engine temps and emissions consistent.

I see a water cooled v-twin in HD's future too.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/harley-davidson-headed-for-cooler-waters/

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Got a sales email from Countryside today telling me to go get the last of the aircooled boxers. Included a photo of the '12 GS. No mention of RTs.

[Boffin]

First I heard of the Water Boxer. I was always under the impression the Hexhead was much like the Oilhead. Both oil and air are used for cooling. Was not aware the Hexhead was exclusively aircooled.

I guess the emission aand mpg monster is catching up with motorcycles. Liquid cooling is easier for engineers to keep engine temps and emissions consistent.

I see a water cooled v-twin in HD's future too.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/harley-davidson-headed-for-cooler-waters/

 

The water boxer is not with us just yet - but it is waiting in the wings and is in the final development stages. Rumour has it that the GS version will appear late 2013, with the RT the year after.

 

Andy

[dirtrider]

First I heard of the Water Boxer. I was always under the impression the Hexhead was much like the Oilhead. Both oil and air are used for cooling. Was not aware the Hexhead was exclusively aircooled.

I guess the emission aand mpg monster is catching up with motorcycles. Liquid cooling is easier for engineers to keep engine temps and emissions consistent.

I see a water cooled v-twin in HD's future too.

 

Afternoon Bob

 

Almost every car, truck, & motorcycle is air cooled. It's just a matter of how they convey the internal engine heat to the air. Some boats & irrigation pumps are actually water cooled as the engine heat goes directly into the water with no radiator used to convey heat to the surrounding air. Even then some of the latent internal engine heat radiates directly to the air around the power plant.

 

In conventional, so called water cooled, automotive & motorcycle engines a lot of the internal heat is still carried away by the oil to the outer areas of the engine oil sump & engine castings then directly transferred to the surrounding air. High internal heat makers like trailer towing or high performance application even use an external engine oil cooler for added cooling.

 

On the BMW 1200 hexhead it is basically just an updated oilhead with the same 2nd oil pump circulating oil to cool parts of the cylinder heads then out to an oil cooler. The majority of the cylinder cooling is still radiated to the passing air flow just like the oilhead was.

 

It looks like the new BMW boxer will use an actual water jacket around the cylinders. This not only controls the cylinder cooling but also allow more even temperature expansion control & closer maintained operating temperature from quick warm up to sustained low speed highengine load. The big gain here is the water surrounding the cylinders will lower the radiated engine noise considerably. This will help (or might even be needed) to allow the new BMW boxer to pass the tough new European noise pass-by (radiated vehicle noise) requirements.

 

As far as I have seen the new Harley V twin will only use water to cool the exhaust valve areas of the cylinder heads (no cylinder cooling) much like the current BMW boxer uses oil to cool the cylinder heads. The reason for them using water instead of oil is probably engine design related. On the BMW oilhead the cooling oil passages drain back into the sump at shutdown to prevent the oil from coking in the oil passages & eventually blocking them off.

 

I'm not sure why Harley needs the water instead of oil but maybe with the small oil sump due to the semi dry sump it has no place to go. Or maybe with the heads tipped at an angle towards the exhaust valves they wouldn't properly drain back at shut down. In any case Harley seems to need water instead of oil to cool certain parts of the cylinder heads. Should allow higher compression, a bit more ign timing, & more horsepower anyhow.

 

[KeithK]

Yes it was a GTL,I was not aware that the riding position is different between it and a GT,I may want to ck that out although the price is really getting up there.

 

Keith

[KeithK]

The hexhead is air/oil cooled I just shortened it for the subject line of my original post.

 

Keith

[Sailorlite]

Judging from the rumors, spy photos, and "insider" comments, the first of the water cooled models will be the GS - to be shown at the European M/C shows in Oct. or Nov. and introduced to dealers in March 2013 (and available for sale at USA dealers very shortly thereafter). All that's from the advrider.com forums, and no mention of development of the RT version.

 

Probably therefore there will be a 2013 GS identical to the current version, until the early release 2014 water cooled GS is here. Maybe a water cooled 2014 RT will be here in the fall of 2013 and maybe the GS Adventure then too.

[TEWKS]

Yes it was a GTL,I was not aware that the riding position is different between it and a GT,I may want to ck that out although the price is really getting up there.

 

Keith

 

Keith, I test rode the GTL and it was nice but it wasn't gonna take me off my RT. The GT felt very much like the RT only with an afterburner.

 

No crime in keeping with an RT, great bike also.

 

Pat

[krussell]

Yes it was a GTL,I was not aware that the riding position is different between it and a GT,I may want to ck that out although the price is really getting up there.

 

Keith

 

Bars are further back on the GTL.

Pegs are further back and a bit up on the GT.

Low seat on the GTL is dramatically lower than the tall seat on the GT, although you can put any of the four seats (gtl l/h, gt l/h) on either bike.

Suspension is firmer on the GT.

 

I went with the GTL, but had the seat rebuilt adding nearly 5 inches. I'm happy with the result.

 

RT -> GT base price adds $3550.

 

If you want to justify the RT, think of the money saved and the proven platform.

 

If you want to justify the GT, use cost/cylinder, it's <3500 for the GT. :-)

[TEWKS]

The GT felt very much like the RT only with an afterburner.

Pat

 

Witness

 

 

Pat

[kmac]

First I heard of the Water Boxer. I was always under the impression the Hexhead was much like the Oilhead. Both oil and air are used for cooling. Was not aware the Hexhead was exclusively aircooled.

I guess the emission aand mpg monster is catching up with motorcycles. Liquid cooling is easier for engineers to keep engine temps and emissions consistent.

I see a water cooled v-twin in HD's future too.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/harley-davidson-headed-for-cooler-waters/

 

Hex heads are air and oil cooled as far as I know. And there is ALREADY a water cooled HD...it is called a V-rod and it stinks.

[wbrissette]

That's the story I'm getting from Long Beach BMW. The 2013s will have a water cooled GS (hence my purchase of a 2012) and RTs following the year after.

 

While it has not arrived yet (obviously), according to the computer, the 2013 GSA that I ordered is sitting at the dock awaiting shipment to the US. It is not suppose to be a water-cooled GS. I'm not sure if they plan to move over to the water-cooled version later (like BMW did in 2005, where some 1150 motors were produced, before they changed over to the 1200 engine), or if the RT and GS will have different engines, but we'll just have to wait and see.

 

Wayne

[RAMBLIN RED]

I guess tradition totes the note, but it seems odd to me to water cool the boxer. Why stick those cyl. in the air if you don't really need to? A parallel twin seems logical.

[Boffin]

A boxer has perfect primary balance without crankshaft balance weights - a parallel twin has no primary balance without crankshaft weights.

 

Andy

[Paul Mihalka]

Well, checking the valves or any cylinder work on a boxer engined bike is so much easier than any other configuration. So, intentionally or not, sticking to that design BMW is helping the home mechanic. Count your blessings...

[Big_Gray]

First I heard of the Water Boxer. I was always under the impression the Hexhead was much like the Oilhead. Both oil and air are used for cooling. Was not aware the Hexhead was exclusively aircooled.

I guess the emission aand mpg monster is catching up with motorcycles. Liquid cooling is easier for engineers to keep engine temps and emissions consistent.

I see a water cooled v-twin in HD's future too.

http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/06/12/harley-davidson-headed-for-cooler-waters/

 

Hex heads are air and oil cooled as far as I know. And there is ALREADY a water cooled HD...it is called a V-rod and it stinks.

 

When you say the V-Rod stinks, are you referring to the motorcycle as a whole or only the engine? Everything I have read suggests that (fuel consumption aside)the V-Rod has a satisfying engine in absolute terms and is by far the best engine in the HD line up although I realize this is faint praise.

[wbrissette]

Everything I have read suggests that (fuel consumption aside)the V-Rod has a satisfying engine in absolute terms and is by far the best engine in the HD line up although I realize this is faint praise.

 

The V-ROD is heavy, way too heavy to really be useful in anything but a cruiser, most of that weight comes from the engine. One of the Buell riders that I ride with occasionally bought a V-ROD and he likes it. But he also has a love hate relationship with it. If they could somehow put that engine on a diet, I think they could put it other frames, but as it is, they need that long stiff frame to house the engine.

 

On the other hand, I really enjoyed my Buell v-Twin. Granted that wasn't the stock HD v-twin, but there is something about that engine that give a bike some character (the mods Erik and team didn't hurt either). The BMW boxer I absolutely love. No dropping the engine (or lifting out the frame as you pretty much do on the Buell 1125 series) to check and adjust values. And as stated, the balance of the boxer engine is sweet. I love being able to ride at ultra-low speeds and have a bike that handles the way I want. The boxer helps make that happen.

 

Wayne