2007 1200RT First impressions vs. Honda ST1300

[MCZX]

I went to BMW - Countryside, Illinois. It was a much better experience than my local Honda dealer, Lake Cycle, Merrillville, Indiana.

 

Not meaning to get anyone angry, just opening a discussion based on my experience.

 

I was ultra excited to ride my first BMW 1200RT after reading all the rave reviews. What a MASSIVE letdown it was.

 

The RT is the first bike in over 20 years of riding I could not wait to get off of. The dealer also had a 2003 Honda ST1300 with low miles, so I figured why not do a back to back comparison since I was there. Bear in mind I knew almost nothing about the ST1300. I own a 1984 GoldWing ( still comfortable for long rides) and a 2005 Yamaha Warrior (thumping v twin beast not good for long rides).

 

2007 1200RT 15k miles

Pros:

Very nice styling.

Rode smooth

Plenty of power (once moving)

Wind control- very good

No heat from engine on rider.

Cruise control.

 

Cons:

(bearing in mind the dealer had not pre-serviced this trade in)

I am 5'10" with a 31" standover. Even at lowest seat setting - standover height way to high. Felt like a dirtbike.

Motor and sound - forget it. Sewing machine. Exhaust note, sounds like a scooter.

Foot controls - basically as tiny as a dirtbike. Very awkward.

Overall it felt awkward and a lot like I was riding an enduro bike.

High center of gravity was noticable and odd.

 

Honda 2003 ST1300 5k miles:

Pros:

This bike caught my eye from across the warehouse. Styling, blacked out rims and silvery color looked amazing.

Motor was a touch boring sounding, but still light years ahead of the ST sound.

Handled so much better than the RT. much, lower, even though it was heavier, I could toss it around with great confidence.

Acceleration was quicker, smoother, tighter.

Wind management good, but not as good as RT.

Braking was much more even and reliable than the RT.

 

Cons:

Heat off engine on rider.

Seat slippery and you slide right into the tank.

No cruise.

 

The ST 1300 seemed to have a low pitched whine or howl about 45 mph. I rolled with the clutch in and could still hear it. Possibly tire issues or drivetrain issues? Whatever it was, I did not think it was normal. Checked with some ST owners last night, they don't identify with that sound at all.

 

I did see the 1600 GTL and that is an incredible design. I sat on that and my first impressions were, this is it. This could blow out a Gold Wing as far as comfort and just feeling right. Instant positive reaction, felt right at home. It is way out of my price range though. If the BMW inline 6 is nothing like a boxer, I may own one in the future.

 

[w2ge]

Different strokes for different folks.. but I can tell you this.. I was advised coming from a Cruiser that it would take 1000 miles to get used to the bike. At 200 miles I started to get a big grin on my face... and so far it has NEVER left.. I wouldn't go back to a Cruiser for my life.. "Whenever I ride the bike, I get wood!" ;-)

 

It is a totally different bike if your coming from a WING, Cruiser...

[erikrichard]

I'm about your size and am on my toes on the RT as well. Try a 2006+ K1200GT and keep the cruise control - I can flat foot one of those easily. Would I choose an ST or GT over my RT? helllll no.

[OoPEZoO]

Like was mentioned above.....the boxer motor is a different animal. Especially coming from a 4 or 6 cylinder bike. The power delivery is just way different. Most guys are used to poking around the countryside at 2-4k RPM. The boxer motors don't like that and are very unsettled in that range. They need to be wrung out a little to be happy. It took me a while to get used to it. Coming from years of riding crotch rockets, it was a major adjustment on my part. My Hexhead is better in this department than my Oilhead was, but I still hardly ever allow the tach to drop below 4k RPM unless I'm cruising flat ground on the interstate.

 

As for the ergos........I hate Goldwings and most crusiers because the seat is so low that I feel like my ass is dragging on the ground . I can't sit on a ST for longer than about 5 minutes without feeling like I'm being folded up in a suitcase.........then again, I'm 6'2" and built like a gorilla. I like that "up in the air" seating position of the BMW's. Its all a preference thing, and thats why they make so many different types of bikes. Find whatcha like and ride it

[MCZX]

The ST 1300 seemed to have a low pitched whine or howl about 45 mph. I rolled with the clutch in and could still hear it. Possibly tire issues or drivetrain issues? Whatever it was, I did not think it was normal. Checked with some ST owners last night, they don't identify with that sound at all.

 

Apparently this is normal. Most likely from the straight cut gears or the tires.

[MCZX]

Like was mentioned above.....the boxer motor is a different animal. Especially coming from a 4 or 6 cylinder bike. The power delivery is , I'm 6'2" and built like a gorilla. I like that "up in the air" seating position of the BMW's. Its all a preference thing, and thats why they make so many different types of bikes. Find whatcha like and ride it

 

Exactly. Probably better for much taller riders. I would say your on target. I like to be in the 2000-2500 RPM on my Yamaha Warrior and about 2500 on the Gold Wing.

[MCZX]

Different strokes for different folks.. but I can tell you this.. I was advised coming from a Cruiser that it would take 1000 miles to get used to the bike. At 200 miles I started to get a big grin on my face... and so far it has NEVER left.. I wouldn't go back to a Cruiser for my life.. "Whenever I ride the bike, I get wood!" ;-)

 

It is a totally different bike if your coming from a WING, Cruiser...

Its comments like this that had my completely dumbfounded. I was waiting for some big smile and it was never going to come. It was such a bad time that I feel I almost owe it to BMW to go and try another motor, the newer GTL or GLT or the ST...something...anything. I also feel the styling of the bike was a 9 out of ten while the overall experience was a 5 out of 10.

[Boffin]

It was your comments on the handling of the BMW that surprises me. Having ridden both the bikes you mention, I found the Honda to be soggy and wallowy when pushed through fast corners - whereas the Beemer was rock-solid.

I do know that the RT is affected more by tyre pressures than the Honda - and that low tyre pressures can cause tyre uneven wear leading to tyre noise.

The issue I have with BMW brakes is lack of feel - not lack of smoothness or power. On the whole, I prefer the Honda brakes too.

 

I found the Honda's engine to be more flexible and powerful - but that is not a big issue for me in a touring bike. Heat is not an issue in the UK.

 

As for the engine sound - or lack thereof - I love riding in stealth mode. I do not care for loud bikes - I live too close to a 'bikers road' to do so - the constant noise of race-cans on a (rare) sunny day makes my back garden almost unusable.

 

Andy

[MCZX]

It was your comments on the handling of the BMW that surprises me. Having ridden both the bikes you mention, I found the Honda to be soggy and garden almost unusable.

 

Andy

I agree. I hate the high revving japanese bikes with tinny aftermarket mufflers. Even though my Warrior has a Muzzy exhaust and sounds amazing, I never crack it open through the neighborhood or just to be obnoxious. I don't need attention.

[Guest Kakugo]

I am really, really surprised about the comment on the RT handling as well.

I have owned or extensively tested all present touring bikes (with the exception of the K1300GT) and none of them comes close to the RT in the handling department. The only one which can compare (taking the extra weight into account) is the K1600GT.

As my pictures show I live in an area which has plenty of opportunities to test handling thoroughly just a stone throw away so I know what I am talking about...

The ST1300 was a good bike when it came out. Gave it a thought when I was shopping around for a new tourer but was put off by the massive heat it gives off and the many cases of instability reported (confirmed to me by a Honda dealer) for which there appears to be no cure.

However it has lagged behind the curve. When BMW came out with the R1200RT in 2005 it surprised everyone by shaving off a massive 90 pounds over the R1150RT: it proved touring bikes don't have to be big, heavy and relying on brute horsepower to do the job.

Japan Inc's reply has been slow to date, with only Kawasaki taking up the gauntlet with the 1400GTR. However it's just another rehash of the old Japanese thought (being big, heavy and very powerful) with the added "bonus" of flimsy Kawasaki build quality. And it had its share of FD failures as well...

 

One point I agree with you wholeheartedly is the one about the brakes. I have never had much love for Brembo (or Tokico) and always preferred Nissin. If those shiny Nissin billet calipers fit the RT rest assured I would buy them without a moment's hesitation.

[mickeymc]

I have to agree with a previous post. I would not form any opinion on the RT with less than 1000 miles. It is different and keep in mind that most change the stock seat very soon. Its only good for a couple hundred miles for me. I do even get mine out if I am not going to ride 100+ miles....

I rode a Goldwing for a while and feel like I cannot see traffic around me because it is to low.

[tallman]

The RT will out handle the ST at any speed.

I find the ST hot, high centre of gravity, hard to move at slow speeds.

The ST seat is .4" lower w/regular seat and there are plenty of options to get a lower seat for an RT.

If you rode in low rpm's, you didn't really ride it.

[Bill_Walker]

Height may certainly be an issue, but if I were you, I'd go back and ride the RT again (or better yet, ride a brand new one, so you know what the used one SHOULD feel like). Make sure the tires are in good shape and at proper pressure, and keep the revs above 4000 (except when starting out from first gear, of course).

 

You didn't mention foot controls on the ST1300, but in my experience, virtually every other street bike has small controls compared to a cruiser (or power cruiser, like your Warrior) or full-boat tourer. I had a Road King for a while, and I recall thinking "why on earth does thing have a brake pedal bigger than the one in my car?"

[cali_beemer]

I have owned both and I couldnt disagree with the original post between these bikes. I dont own a BMW or a Honda anymore so I will make notes as unbias as I can. I should make note that the ST1300 has managed to earn the award of worst motorcycle I have owned, out of 16 or 17 now so dont expect to hear any kind words on that...I should also note that the 1200RT my favorite motorcycle.

 

The ST1300....where do I begin....

Lets start with the heat, the first and only motorcycle that has forced me to stop riding becasue of the heat. The bars are narrow and the steering is heavy that increases fatigue. Low ground cleaance, heavy...did I mention heavy, a pain in the ass to work on, alot of negetaive pressure on the back with the windshield up. Possibly the worst suspension I have ever used. The aerodynamics were awful. The bike bobbed across the lane at 85+ mph. No top case beiong offered in the US, most likely becasue Honda knows of the aerodynamic issues this bike has and been known for (The UK police put a ban on them becasue of aerodynamic issues). The display cant be seen in bright light, the glovebox is small and useless becasue the heat from the engine will melt anything you put in there. The side cases are riduculous....really, two keyholes honda??? The transmission loved a false nuetral between first and second...lame turn signals and location...I hope you have long thumbs. The bike needs a sixth gear in a major way...It gets somewhat vibey at higher RPM's and the bike feels like its workign to maintain 85 on the freeway....Im going to stop....I can go on all day about this pathetic offering from Honda.

 

The RT...loved it, low speed handling, great suspension, great aerodynamics, plenty of ground clearance, great storage and features. My only gripes would be the glitchy sensitivity of the oil level gauage and the seat...

 

I will leave my post with this comment...Put a stick of chapstick in the glovebox of the ST1300 and the RT... let see who has chapped lips at the end of a trip....LOL dont ask me how I know.

[midatlanticcycle]

having owned at least 500 motorcycles in the past 45 years (yes..i'm 58 and have owned bikes since i was 13) and presently owning 16, i can tell you that BMW's are an acquired taste. you obviously haven't acquired that taste. LOL

the Germans don't do a thing like any other designers or manufacturers in the world and everything from the looks to the switchgear to the seating position is uniquely BMW. are they for everyone? no. do they take some "getting used to"? yes. is the RT1200 the world's finest all-around motorcycle? i believe it is. but that's me.

[outpost22]

In regards to the OP observations, jumping on a BMW and expecting it to feel anything vaguely familiar with other motorcycles isn't going to happen. This actually is appealing to a lot of us oddball riders. I learned a long time ago that there is a certain "feel" to every bike and actually to every bike made in a different country.

 

Most bikes have a "honeymoon phase" that feel great for the first year. Most of my Japanese bikes felt this way. Unfortunately most of the "marriages" wore thin by the end of one year. I found that Austrian and German rides were the opposite. They feel "weird" to start off with, but grow better with time in the saddle.

Starting off with the RT, I tried to ride it like a cruiser at 2500-3500 rpm. Not very impressive. Then it took some time learn the bikes sweet spots. The old RT is 16 years old now, but she still does herself proud next to the other bikes that have long since sagged and worn out in the same period of time.

It's an acquired taste.

[moshe_levy]

Coming off my Harley in 2006, I was kind of put-off by my first RT when I first bought it as well. After a few months of high mileage, and especially after Jim Ford taught me how BMWs like to be ridden, I now wouldn't consider anything else. And I've ridden them all, at some time or another. It's a bike that grows on you, and once it does, you're hooked!

 

-MKL

[RedMac]

While I know a number of folks who ride the ST1300 and most of them like the bike. Smooth power, decent handling (heat is a known issue). And you make some good points.

 

I was coming off a K1200RS to the RT. I had always wanted a boxer and bought one sight unseen (flew into Kansas City to buy it from another board member).

 

When I first started riding it, I thought to myself "Oh God, I think I made a mistake". But as time went on, I felt more and more at home on the bike. It's NOT a sport bike. It's a sport-tourer. The K bike had that power that kicks you in the butt. Any gear, hit the gas and it just goes. You need to manage the engine RPM's on the RT. As Keith mentioned, below 4K it is just a bit laggy. I run mine at higher RPM's as well and it took me a while to realize that. Riding the RT makes you a better rider. With one of the bigger 4's it's easy to get lazy about shifting and power band management.

 

The one comment you make that rather astounds me is the handling comment. The RT handles better than any bigger bike I've ever ridden. Smooth as butter through the curves. It always feels solid and well planted on the road. And I'm even riding with stock shocks!

 

Heightwise I agree. In my case, I'm 6'2" so I actually like the height on the bike. For me it's a good fit. First thing to do however is get rid of the stock seat.

 

I'm also with you on the small controls. For the life of me I could not get my riding boot under the shifter very well, so I went out and bought a touratech shift lever extender. Problem solved. And with the wizzy-wig brakes the "feel" of the brakes isn't that good. However, they brake pretty damn well. The ABS and fast braking has saved my butt at least twice since I've owned the bike.

 

Without a doubt a BMW of any type is an acquired taste. When I first made a foray into the BMW fold as a result of my brother-in-laws long association with the bike he made a comment to me that I've come to realize is true.

 

Owning any BMW bike is a "love-hate" relationship... one thing about the German's. THEY decide what/how the bike works, not the marketplace.

 

Good luck in your search and I hope you find the perfect bike.

 

As my good friend Curt (RIP) used to say...

 

Ride Far, Ride Safe, Just Ride

 

 

[RPG]

I'm guessing you wouldn't like Harley twins either.

 

RPG

[George S.]

Add me to the chorus that's astounded that you feel the RT handled poorly. Since it had 15,000 miles and it hadn't yet been inspected by the dealer (shame on him) I'm wondering how worn the tires were or what air pressure they had? I once thought I had handling issues with my R1200CLC. I was using the Black and Decker air pump's PSI readout as my gauge. I then started reading posts where it was mentioned that the correct tire pressure was VERY important. I then checked with two other tire gauges and they both agreed that the air pump's gauge was off something like 12 PSI- too low! I added air to where the two gauges (one was mechanical and one was electronic) said was the bike's correct PSI and I was absolutely floored by the handling improvement.

[BalancePoint]

I'll chime in here.

The "turbine" whine is maybe the most iconic characteristic of the ST1300, followed by the heat around your lower legs and the hard to read LED display...

That said, I love mine at any speed above a walking pace. I love the engine and I have no complaints at all with the handling. I don't think it handles as crisply as the 1200RT, but it's close. I think that boils down to individual preference. I've never heard anyone seriously criticize the RT's handling before. The ST1300 was known to be unstable at very high speeds under certain loading conditions, but virtually everyone who has put some real miles on one has no complaints either. Most people will tell you the Honda is a more reliable bike over long miles, but exceptions to that wisdom abound.

Bottom line, they both have their happy riders and both groups have their gripes... They're motorcycles, after all.

[BerndM]

Hey MCZX

I ride a 2005 R1200RT and I was very surprised when you stated you had problems with the seating height of the 07 RT.

Unless there was a height change made from 05 to 07, the bikes should be identical.

Did you check the height adjustment of the seat?? Your seat may have been in the high position.

I have my seat in the lowest position and my 29" legs have AT LEAST the ENTIRE balls of my feet on the ground and often times, after coming to normal stop, my ENTIRE feet are flat on the ground.

If you're going to try out another RT, check the seat position.

 

Regards

Bernd

 

[cali_beemer]

The ST1300 was known to be unstable at very high speeds under certain loading conditions, but virtually everyone who has put some real miles on one has no complaints either.

 

I had one and put real miles on it...I will say it has some very serious stability issues...even unloaded for that matter....In fact I believe it was the UK police that had a very real problem with them as well to the point they sold their fleet of ST1300's and banned them from purchase. Personally I have never ridden a bike with such a stability/aerodymanics problem.

 

Some ST1300's also suffer from an altitude sickness, similar to the FJR only the ST was by far worse...and Yamaha has done a recall while mother honda has done nothing...Just take a look at the number of people changing the fuel pressure regulators on the ST.

 

Personally I am bit sickened by the number of issues that Japanese bikes have in terms if userability (my FJR as well). While I think BMW suffers from some quality control, when I ride a BMW I get a feeling that someone that rides actually tested it in the real world...or that real riders designed them....When I ride a stock japanese bike I am always asking myself who the F designed this....I just imagine a short shrivled up old man behind a computer that doesnt ride and probably goes home hating motorcycles....

[mickeym3]

Had a FJR for 4 years doing major commuting in the Seattle area including daily ferry rides across the Puget Sound, absolutely loved the power and in the Northwest heat generally is not an issue...when I went Sports Touring shopping again this year I considered the Connie but never the ST because of the bulk...bought my 2011 RT knowing there would be an adjustment period, now I would NEVER go back to a Japanese 4 holer....the RT just flat grows on you. In my book, they all have quality issues, well, except for my WeeStrom, indestructible as far as I can tell...

[EffBee]

I think there are several problems with your comparison, virtually none of which are your fault.

 

First, you admit that the dealer hadn't pre-serviced the trade-in. So you don't know what the tire pressures were. Also, I don't see whether the bike had ESA, which if not set for sport riding, would deliver a wallowy ride. As for the Honda, it had some used-bike glitches as well, but at least had been serviced. So you rode an unprepared used bike vs. a prepared used bike. This may be part of the reason for your findings regarding handling. I've got a '99 1100RT, which is 75lbs. heavier than the 1200RT. And mine will outhandle an ST, corner rock solid at angles that the ST cannot equal because of the body and hard parts scraping the ground, and generally outmaneuver it. And I've spent substantial time on a friend's ST and have owned an FJR1300 as well (similar cornering limits).

 

Second point, the height. Yes, they're tall. We wish they weren't as we'd have more people buying them, but they are. BMW knows. They offer a lowered chassis version (shorter shocks and seat) which then has about the same cornering clearance as an ST.

 

Brakes. The RT's are spectacular. And the Honda's are as good except it has to stop more weight. But I do like the Honda's feel a little better, so we agree on that.

 

Foot controls are not an issue I've noticed on any RT I've ridden, and I've got size 12's. However, if it's an issue to you, then you must report it. Fair enough.

 

Sound? Both machines are whisper quiet. I don't hear my BMW as much as feel it. And that evenly spaced opposed twin cadence is internally rewarding and soothing. YMMV.

 

No heat is a good thing, yes? Heat would ruin a ride for me. Just rode to Colorado in 100-degree heat. No problems with heat coming off the bike and the bike ran as cool as it does in the winter. And it's 13 years old. The newer ones are even better.

 

The ST1300 is a very good motorcycle. And if its parameters meet the needs of its rider better than any other bike, then it's the best bike on the market. Same for a 1200RT, or FJR or Harley.

 

I think a lot of variables could have been eliminated if you had been able to compare two new bikes. But that's what magazine tests are for. Those guys get new bikes from the manufacturers. For us mere mortals in the real world, we rarely come across a chance to test two new bikes back-to-back. Especially if they're different brands. You came across what you came across, and under those circumstances, your findings are completely valid for those two individual motorcycles. But they cannot be considered in equal state of wear nor of preparation. And unfortunately, despite your best intentions, your findings begin and end with those two bikes. Had you liked the BMW better, the same would be true.