FLrider Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Flying Lessons. Yup. I have an appointment to learn how to propel a 5,000 lb sardine can through the sky, 3000 feet or so above the hard ground. I've jumped out of them, I've been a passenger in them but I've never had to put my own life at risk, with my own hands. Well, aside for riding motorcycles and some of the other sports I engage in..... So, for you pilots out there.....what do I have to look forward to. I figure, a few minutes of excitement (landing and taking off) followed by hours of boredom. Oh look, another cloud.... Talk to me.
Shiny Side Up Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Don't ask me!! I've jumped out of perfectly good planes too but never flown one!! My son has done both - although not sure which he prefers. Good on ya for the flying lessons - life is short - saw a crop duster on the way home - now there ya' go!!!
upflying Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Flying Lessons. Yup. I have an appointment to learn how to propel a 5,000 lb sardine can through the sky, 3000 feet or so above the hard ground. I've jumped out of them, I've been a passenger in them but I've never had to put my own life at risk, with my own hands. Well, aside for riding motorcycles and some of the other sports I engage in..... So, for you pilots out there.....what do I have to look forward to. I figure, a few minutes of excitement (landing and taking off) followed by hours of boredom. Oh look, another cloud.... Talk to me. What kind of primary trainer are you flying that weights 5,000lbs? C150 or similar are around 1500lbs.
Marty Hill Posted July 30, 2012 Posted July 30, 2012 Flying is the one task/sport that beats riding a moto!
Jerry_75_Guy Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 What should you expect? Well, if the bug really bites down hard the way it did with me, get ready to turn on the money hose; this can be one of the most costly avocations I know of. I've flown, and taught, at every level of aviation, and I'm way too biased in favor of, to properly warn you away. There's endless advice that we could give, but that said: 1. always fly the plane first 2. always fly ahead of the plane 3. handle the stick/yolk the way you grip the bars on your bike: use a light touch, just as if you were holding a baby bird (I got that reference from someone here)(if you're gripping the yolk tight you're probably doing wrong; trimmed properly, the plane doesn't need you much, it'll fly just fine by its self) 4. practice, practice, practice (in and out of the plane: chair flying/head flying, and home simulator flying are great, cost effective ways to practice procedures, though there's nothing like doing it in the plane/glider/rotocraft) 5. and always be as safety minded as you can (not as easy or as obvious as it might sound; there are a lot of ways to screw up, or be tempted into a screw up) There are a gazillion more, but that's what came to mind in the first few seconds after reading your post P.S. I almost forgot, don't just settle for the first CFI you come across, talk to ('interview' if you will) a bunch of them. Find one that comes with good recommendations from several sources, and one that you feel good about and get along with; you are going to spend a lot of time with them in a small space doing some demanding things. Just because someone has knowledge, skill and a CFI cert., dosen't mean they know how to teach. CFIs are easy to find, CFIs who are skilled teachers are not.
FLrider Posted July 31, 2012 Author Posted July 31, 2012 Flying Lessons. Yup. I have an appointment to learn how to propel a 5,000 lb sardine can through the sky, 3000 feet or so above the hard ground. What kind of primary trainer are you flying that weights 5,000lbs? C150 or similar are around 1500lbs. Beats me. I just made that up. The plane only weighs 1500lbs ?
Skywagon Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 My first advice. Be calm. Don't give up. The first lesson or two might cause you to doubt, but don't. Stick with it. It doesn't come as fast as you might think. Take the ground school portion at the same time or even slightly ahead of your flying plan. Stick with one instructor (make sure you and the instructor or compatable) and don't get caught with rotating instructors or your bill will go up and you learning won't keep up. Make sure the instructor is engaged and isn't just logging hours to get to a heavy iron job. Fly at least once a week if you can afford it or you will likely be relearning things. Thats enough for your first 3 or 4 lessons. When you are done with that come back and ask some more.... By coincidence I am studying tonight for my 2 year flight review. It is the first time I will be with a new instructor in 25 years...
ericfoerster Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Treat yourself to some time in a big plane when you reach goals. Try a 172 after your solo, a 182 after your long cross country...etc. It keeps your interest going at least for a while. I remember when a 172 felt like a 747. I loved flying different machines and it made me strive for more. Have fun and enjoy the ride.
Albert Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Flying is the one task/sport that beats riding a moto! +1 It's like riding a 3D motorcycle. I really miss it.
upflying Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 FL is good place to learn, flat landscape means nothing to run into. But stay away from those cumulonimbus that roll through all the time. Take ground school first and pass the written before getting too far into the flight lessons. Much to learn in ground school that will eat up a lot of instructor time explaining it. Back in the day, I sat in a classroom watching Filmstrips. Now ground school can be taken on line.
Antimatter Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I remember my father getting his GA license and then his instrument rating when I was a boy. I looked into flying, but the costs associated make tires and track days look like chicken feed. There are two pieces of advice I remember from my dad that I still apply to motorcycle riding today: 1. 12 hours from bottle to throttle. 2. There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are very few old, bold pilots. A bit of a cliche, but I try to remember it every time I get the urge to twist the wick in traffic. My dad owned a Mooney M20 Executive that he flew for years when we lived in South Dakota. I spent a lot of time in the right hand seat of that aircraft, and have many fond memories of the time flying with him.
SPX Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Before getting too deep in your training, and spending too much money, get your FAA medical. Without it, you will not be able to get your pilots license. So you want to find out early if you have any medical condition that would not permit you to ever get your license.
Albert Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 But stay away from those cumulonimbus that roll through all the time. We used to say "stay away from those cumulo-granite clouds".
RonStewart Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I was working on a license a decade ago, but stopped after completing ground school (except the exam) and about 13 hours of seat time. $5000 spent, and I wasn't really enjoying it as much as I had hoped. Possibly, had I been in a new Diamond airplane instead of a tired 152, I may have had more fun. Airspace here is crowded, and the local field is one of Canada's busiest in terms of takeoffs and landings (8 flight schools there, last I looked). So I was giving a lot of time and attention to ATC. I hope that you have a ton of fun. I do think you should go to a school with "fun" aircraft and a fairly quiet field. If it turns out not to be your bag, quit early and save your dough. Balance that with what David wrote above about not quitting too early. Oh, and he is completely right about flying often. I don't think once a week is enough. Last thought: I used Microsoft Flight Simulator with a good yoke and pedals, and it really did help me with my landings. You can go back to short final again and again and again. Good gear (Saitek) would cost the same as several hours of instruction. Others may scoff, and they probably know more about it than I do. Ron
Mister Tee Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 I was working on a license a decade ago, but stopped after completing ground school (except the exam) and about 13 hours of seat time. $5000 spent, and I wasn't really enjoying it as much as I had hoped. Possibly, had I been in a new Diamond airplane instead of a tired 152, I may have had more fun. Airspace here is crowded, and the local field is one of Canada's busiest in terms of takeoffs and landings (8 flight schools there, last I looked). So I was giving a lot of time and attention to ATC. I hope that you have a ton of fun. I do think you should go to a school with "fun" aircraft and a fairly quiet field. If it turns out not to be your bag, quit early and save your dough. Balance that with what David wrote above about not quitting too early. Oh, and he is completely right about flying often. I don't think once a week is enough. Last thought: I used Microsoft Flight Simulator with a good yoke and pedals, and it really did help me with my landings. You can go back to short final again and again and again. Good gear (Saitek) would cost the same as several hours of instruction. Others may scoff, and they probably know more about it than I do. Ron My experience with simulators is that they are great for instrument work (I do IFR currency approaches on the FAA approved version of X-Plane with a CFII) but not so good for primary flight skills. Landings, slow flight and stalls are not realistic. Aerobatics are seriously unrealistic. Still, it's a lot of fun to barrel roll a 737!
upflying Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Before getting too deep in your training, and spending too much money, get your FAA medical. Without it, you will not be able to get your pilots license. So you want to find out early if you have any medical condition that would not permit you to ever get your license. AFAIK, you can't even start flight training without a third class medical. That medical also serves as your student pilot certificate.
SPX Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 AFAIK, you can't even start flight training without a third class medical. That medical also serves as your student pilot certificate. You can't solo before getting your medical (which, as you said, will serve as your student pilot certificate). However, there's no requirement to have a medical/student pilot certificate prior to solo.
Scribner Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 You will meet an extraordinary group of people. You will learn what you are made of. Check and recheck your check list. Air speed is money in your pocket, altitude is money in the bank. Train in windy conditions. The difference between a student pilot and a pilot; a pilot breaks ground and flies into the wind.
FLrider Posted August 1, 2012 Author Posted August 1, 2012 So, I spent a little more time at the hanger/school today trying to figure out the economics. Basically, it' about $2700 for 15 hours of flying time in a G1000, whatever that is. I do know it's air conditioned But apparently, that's enough to get you to solo. It takes about 40 hours to get a license. Therefore I would need to "buy" another 25 hours of fly time at about $135 an hour (for a 172). If want an instructor, add another $45 an hour. So, to get to the license part it's $6-$8k. I guess the only reason I'd need a license is if I wanted to take a passenger. Wife has already made it clear she is not stepping into a small plane, license or not. But unfortunately, you can't just keep soloing indefinitely just buy renting the plane because the instructors won't sign off. They don't want the liability and I don't blame them. So, it appears that unless I'm willing to drop $6k just to be able fly around with a willing victim, Uh, I mean passenger, then I just spent $2500 just to learn HOW to fly. Game over. Unless the bug bites.... Some good advice here related to physicals and doing the bookwork online or at least staying ahead of the reading or testing so that your time is spent practicing in the air. I was having fun reading until I read the part about intentional stalling and spinning. They should have added barfing..... But as I've told my boys as they were growing up; Learn and Live Learn new things, Control your Fears and Live the Life you have.
Skywagon Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Don't get too discourage about the price...you pay as you go and you can stretch it out...When I got my certificate it took me a bit more than a year. It was the only way I could afford it then. So everybody's mileage varies. I soled at 7.5 hours. You are only required 20 hours of instruction although you will likely be North of that. I took it in the cheapest airplane available at the time which was a Cessna 152. Forget the glass panel for now, you can do that later. A G1000 is among the most expensive way to go. If you fly with a school that has an approved FAA part 141 school, you can get your certificate at 35 hours not 40. However don't count on that..Most likely plan 45-50...again you can do it over a period of time...Expensive yep, but you will be one of only about 450,000 who can do that in the USA....
chrisolson Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Although the closest to you apparently is in Clermont, you might want to investigate _real_ flying ... that is in a sailplane ! Seminole Lake Gliderport You might take a demo ride to see what its all about. I used to be partners in one like this ... Oh, and I'm SEL rated also, so I'm quite aware of that other noisey, regulation intensive form of flying
SPX Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 So, I spent a little more time at the hanger/school today trying to figure out the economics. Basically, it' about $2700 for 15 hours of flying time in a G1000, whatever that is. I do know it's air conditioned But apparently, that's enough to get you to solo. It takes about 40 hours to get a license. Therefore I would need to "buy" another 25 hours of fly time at about $135 an hour (for a 172). If want an instructor, add another $45 an hour. So, to get to the license part it's $6-$8k. I guess the only reason I'd need a license is if I wanted to take a passenger. Wife has already made it clear she is not stepping into a small plane, license or not. But unfortunately, you can't just keep soloing indefinitely just buy renting the plane because the instructors won't sign off. They don't want the liability and I don't blame them. So, it appears that unless I'm willing to drop $6k just to be able fly around with a willing victim, Uh, I mean passenger, then I just spent $2500 just to learn HOW to fly. Game over. Unless the bug bites.... Some good advice here related to physicals and doing the bookwork online or at least staying ahead of the reading or testing so that your time is spent practicing in the air. I was having fun reading until I read the part about intentional stalling and spinning. They should have added barfing..... But as I've told my boys as they were growing up; Learn and Live Learn new things, Control your Fears and Live the Life you have. To be completely clear and honest with you it may take more than 15 hours for you to solo. When I was flight instructing, 15 hours was about the norm to solo, but some took much longer. To get your private pilot license, I'd plan 60 hours. Very few do it in the FAA minimum of 40 hours. I'd suggest planning on about $10-12k to go from nothing to your private pilot certificate.
Bill_Walker Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 OK, I'm not a pilot, but my Dad was, and I've spent a lot of time reading airplane magazines and books. Doesn't "G1000" refer to a Garmin "glass cockpit" avionics package, rather than to an airplane?
SPX Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 OK, I'm not a pilot, but my Dad was, and I've spent a lot of time reading airplane magazines and books. Doesn't "G1000" refer to a Garmin "glass cockpit" avionics package, rather than to an airplane? Yes
FLrider Posted August 1, 2012 Author Posted August 1, 2012 OK, I'm not a pilot, but my Dad was, and I've spent a lot of time reading airplane magazines and books. Doesn't "G1000" refer to a Garmin "glass cockpit" avionics package, rather than to an airplane? Yes I stand corrected. When I was in the hanger, the menu board just said G1000. The actual plane is here.
Jerry_75_Guy Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 "So, it appears that unless I'm willing to drop $6k just to be able fly around with a willing victim, Uh, I mean passenger, then I just spent $2500 just to learn HOW to fly. Game over. Unless the bug bites...." I told you it was pricey If you are looking for a cheap hobby, boy, did you come to the wrong place! But bear in mind that getting a private licence is not the only, or lowest cost, licencing option: look into getting a recreational licence, etc. There are alternatives. "it' about $2700 for 15 hours of flying time in a G1000" If you are working with a school that's trying to push you into an expensive aircraft to train in, you are in the wrong place; those types of schools are just there to seperate you from as much of your money as they can, and that type of coporate mindset attracts CFIs who are there to build time, and not for the love of teaching aviation. Look around some more. "So, to get to the license part it's $6-$8k." How much did your bike cost? I can promise you, that if you stay healthy, your Pvt Licence will last a lot longer than your bike. There are many ways to fly more cheaply (older trainers are more cost effective and are perfectly fine, by the way, and if a CFI tells you otherwise, then they are lying, or don't know what they're talking about), and you can lower your costs by finding a good flying club to rent from after you have your licence. It sounds like you need to 1. go back, reevaluate what drew you to flying, and if its something you really have an interest in 2. do your homework on the costs, what the different entry level licences are that you could pursue (there's not just one), and the costs of just month to month flying after you have your certificate; like I said, it can be done more cheaply (and safely) if you do a little research, you don't need the newest, fastest plane with the most advanced panel, unless thats just what you want, and that is OK, but you're gonna pay a real premium for that 3. like I said in my first post; shop around for a good school and a good CFI as they are worth their weight in gold, ignoring that advice will, at the least, cost you a lot of money, and probably push you away from flying unecessarily
FLrider Posted August 1, 2012 Author Posted August 1, 2012 Jerry, that's very good advice. I would not have even known to ask for the alternatives and they didn't volunteer the alternatives. I don't feel like they are pushing anything at this point. I'm thinking that I just want to get to the point where I can fly, with a passenger, maybe once a month. Take a one hour spin around the block just to add a little change to the bike, boat, etc., I'm going to do some more research and call a few other schools.... Thanks Again.
Paul Mihalka Posted August 1, 2012 Posted August 1, 2012 Let me jump in a little because of what I just read. I've done some flying looong ago. Gave up because I couldn't do it enough. Not only do it enough for my pleasure but do it enough to be good at it. If (God forbid) I don't ride my bike for a month I'm really rusty. If for some reason (like broken bones) I don't ride for a couple of month, I am very careful, concentrated, and know I'm not up to speed. I would not want that feeling flying a airplane. I think if I could fly only about once a month, I would not do it.
upflying Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Dang, $2700 for 15 hrs of flight time! I spent $2500 to get my private ticket 30 years ago.
Skywagon Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Lets see how long ago....C150 $15 hour dry, $17 wet. C172 $22 Dry, $25 Wet, Instructor $8/hour. No clue rental rates these days..Operating cost to own a C185 counting hangar, insurance, reserve, fuel, etc...You don't want to know. Like they say if it floats or flys, cheaper to rent.
bobbybob Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Why are you training in a 4 seater? Why not the 162?? That is crazy, and wa$teful! There is no advantage for you in the 4 seater, only for the company renting it. After 25 years of flying, I sold my 172 and "got back into riding". Sounds like you're in reverse. I got tired of sinking $$$$$ into old technology and watching it break over and over again. The new planes are costly to own, and renting gets old real quick, if its something you want to do WHEN you want to do it. As I did. Reading your post, I don't think flying will float your boat in the end. Float your boat....hmmmmm...there's a parallel there somewhere.....
upflying Posted August 2, 2012 Posted August 2, 2012 Remember the instructor who is training you is probably trying to build time to step up to the right seat on a regional domestic or foreign carrier. Think Dash-8. Way back when, one of my instructors could barely speak English. Cheapest road for training is to get a commission and fly for the military. My point is the instructor may not have your best interests in mind.
bobbybob Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 My point is the instructor may not have your best interests in mind. Very true---or they may not even be cut out for teaching. *Good* CFI's are few and far between, as teaching is an art. I had one (for a BFR) that was scared of stalls. Ask other students who they had and what they thought of them. I've seen folks spend a lot of dough and at 30 hours still haven't solo'd.
FLrider Posted August 3, 2012 Author Posted August 3, 2012 I think after listening to you guys and talking to a few buddies who used to fly and don't anymore ($$$), I am just going to take a half dozen lessons just so I can see what it's all about. I've since read that you can get a "Sport" license with 20 hours, not the 40 for private pilot. Difference is that you can't fly at night and you are restricted as to distance you can fly among other things. Interestingly, you can take a passenger. But it's like Paul said, flying once a month is probably a bad idea. You get rusty and rusty is dangerous. Hell, my boat is on a lift in my backyard and sometimes she doesn't see any action for a few months. Too busy riding. I appreciate the input and it helped me with the decision. By the way, THIS is the place I am going to be taking the class..... Happened just two days ago....
Mister Tee Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 I think after listening to you guys and talking to a few buddies who used to fly and don't anymore ($$$), I am just going to take a half dozen lessons just so I can see what it's all about. I've since read that you can get a "Sport" license with 20 hours, not the 40 for private pilot. Difference is that you can't fly at night and you are restricted as to distance you can fly among other things. Interestingly, you can take a passenger. But it's like Paul said, flying once a month is probably a bad idea. You get rusty and rusty is dangerous. Hell, my boat is on a lift in my backyard and sometimes she doesn't see any action for a few months. Too busy riding. I appreciate the input and it helped me with the decision. By the way, THIS is the place I am going to be taking the class..... Happened just two days ago.... The only real advantage to the sport pilot rule is that you can fly without an FAA medical, as long as you have a valid driver's license. In terms of the PTS standards, there isn't a huge difference between a SP and a PPL, and 20 extra hours of training isn't a huge difference cost wise (you still might spend nearly as much time getting an SP as a PPL, nobody completes a certificate at the bare minimum of hours.) You can still exercise SP priviledges on a PPL in the future if you are in a position where you would not be issued a medical.
philbytx Posted August 3, 2012 Posted August 3, 2012 Have a great time ! I do hope that you have/get a GREAT instructor. If you don't bond or "click" with your instructor, don't be afraid to try someone else. I was fortunate in that when I first started out, my first two instructors were truly wonderful folks. Learn your aircraft, RTFM (LOL!), digest it and, when free'd to solo, practice, practice, practice and practice whenever you can. Oh! And during the learning process, don't EVER get too sure of yourself and get yourself "behind the aircraft"! Remember, if you get into it, you can get checked out in HP aircraft (adjustable prop, landing gear) then you get your hours in and go for your Instrument rating. Then flying becomes more challenging and really interesting !
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