"Voting" with Your Pocketbook?

[Huzband]

our Constitution is founded on Christian beliefs.

 

and this myth gets regurgitated once again. Sigh.

 

You can deny the quotes of our founding Fathers all you want, but it's still the truth. If you don't like it, move elsewhere.

 

Sigh into your pillow.

[beemerman2k]

OK fellas, let's table this debate for now as it only serves to hijack the topic at hand.

[moshe_levy]

Still, I do feel it raises concerns and questions that we need to be asking ourselves about the role of government in our society.

 

B2K, not all mayors were so shameless. One in particular is an outspoken supporter of marriage equality, and yet specifically told CFA that they're welcome in his city (I see you mentioned Boston's mayor by name, but as a non-Mod I think that would put me on thin ice, no?). I think that mayor I'm talking about struck the right balance. I too would be concerned with politicians who say "not welcome" to businesses which are not breaking the law, or promoting viewpoints which, though immoral, are indeed legal.

 

-MKL

[ratfink]

But to say that a Christian business owner doesn't have the right to speak his mind & express his beliefs is just Stalinist.

 

I might not have been paying attention but I didn't see anyone question his right to speak his mind and express his belief. They're just saying if you act to legislate your misguided beliefs on us, we aren't gonna buy your crappy fast food. That's all I got from it anyway, probably because I'm not so reactionary.

[moshe_levy]

Let us leave the green seedless grapes out of this discussion. I happen to be horribly addicted to them and would gladly kill if I could not get them. I just returned from the store with 10 pounds of them, which will last not one week.

I don't care who picks them, nor what picks them. I seriously must have them.

As to the GM products, I probably would not ever again, even if you put a gun to my head, purchase another GM vehicle. It has nothing to do with union labor, their bankruptcy nor political or other views.

dc

 

This is a diversion, but you're absolutely right. I have 7 pounds left in my fridge and I'm fit to burst. They're damn good!

 

Re GM cars, it's a great example of the OP's original question. There are many people who vilify the company for a number of reasons (many of them valid - I've had my share of their crappy cars). But beyond quality or product questions, politics can galvanize people into a semi-organized boycott of sorts. Many people, today, will not consider a GM product because the company was bailed out by government. Good, bad, or indifferent, the company must deal with that. But, like anything else, reason and fact are powerful weapons - like I said above about Trader Joe's.

 

In the case of GM, boycotting them for being bailed out leaves a customer with literally no choice, since every American car company has been bailed out or taken a huge federal no-interest loan (taxpayer subsidized) at some point - and every foreign car company is subsidized, either directly or indirectly, by either their governments (Japan and Korea most notoriously) or even by US taxpayers, as is the case with, say, VW's huge new plant in TN (the largest state subsidy to any foreign car manufacturer, ever).

 

States WILL fight with each other over who can offer the biggest carrot to a large company to open up an assembly plant in their territory. Look at the deal Alabama's giving Airbus. The state will subsidize Airbus so Airbus can compete directly with Boeing which is subsidized on many levels, state and federal. Your tax dollars at work, my friends!

 

It's complicated - certainly more complicated than "I won't buy GM because they were bailed out" while failing to realize that WHATEVER you drive is also, in effect, bailed out too!

 

-MKL

[beemerman2k]

I see you mentioned Boston's mayor by name, but as a non-Mod I think that would put me on thin ice, no?

 

Yes, now that you mention it, I did step over the line, didn't I?

 

My fellow mods will handle this case in the same manner they'd handle others, and I support them fully in that, too

 

The last thing I want to do is to encourage political fights and a disregard for our rules, that's for sure.

[Huzband]

But to say that a Christian business owner doesn't have the right to speak his mind & express his beliefs is just Stalinist.

 

I might not have been paying attention but I didn't see anyone question his right to speak his mind and express his belief. They're just saying if you act to legislate your misguided beliefs on us, we aren't gonna buy your crappy fast food. That's all I got from it anyway, probably because I'm not so reactionary.

 

What makes you so sure my beliefs are so misguided? How is it that you're so confident that you're beliefs are spot on? You're the one that wants to legislate. We just want to keep things as they have been. And what's wrong with that?

[ratfink]

As of right now, gay marriage is legal in Washington state. In November I get go vote on a referendum to overturn it, Who's changing what? And who financed it?

 

Yes I am absolutely confident that I am spot on and that you are misguided. I won't argue because I am also confident I can't win you over, I'll just demonstrate my Solidarnosc, No Arkansas chicken fried in rancid grease for me. Never on a Sunday.

[pbharvey]

Chick-fil-A actively supports motorcycle riding so if your motorcycle passion surpasses your gay marriage passion, have a chicken sandwich!

 

"There is no institution on the planet more important and more crucial to the well being of current and future generations than family. That is a bold statement, but one that Chick-fil-A and the WinShape Foundation stand by and hope to impart to others in all that we say and do." — Dan Cathy

 

Each year, Chick-fil-A partners with the WinShape Foundation to offer an amazing motorcycle adventure throughout the southeast – inspiring communities and celebrating strong marriages and families along the way.

 

[ratfink]

Chick-fil-A actively supports motorcycle riding so if your motorcycle passion surpasses your gay marriage passion, have a chicken sandwich!

 

"There is no institution on the planet more important and more crucial to the well being of current and future generations than family. That is a bold statement, but one that Chick-fil-A and the WinShape Foundation stand by and hope to impart to others in all that we say and do." — Dan Cathy

 

Each year, Chick-fil-A partners with the WinShape Foundation to offer an amazing motorcycle adventure throughout the southeast – inspiring communities and celebrating strong marriages and families along the way.

 

 

Thanks, nice vid, lotsa fatboys. There are no Chik-filla in Oregon, 1 in Washington 200 miles from me. Fortunatley we have lotsa food carts and ma and pa restaurants that serve fresh locally grown chicken....grilled, barbequed etc. God I love the Northwest.

[moshe_levy]

You're the one that wants to legislate. We just want to keep things as they have been.

 

There seems above to be a fundamental misunderstanding regarding what a "right" is in some of these posts.

 

First, let us define "right:" A fair definition would be "an abstract idea of that which is due to a person or governmental body by law or tradition or nature"

 

So above we were asked "But to say that a Christian business owner doesn't have the right to speak his mind & express his beliefs?....."

 

The answer is, of course he does. Nobody, anywhere, was trying to restrict those rights, to my knowledge. If they were, you would see active legislation passed to restrict the rights of Christian businessmen from speaking their minds. None exists.

 

He is free to speak his mind. Consumers are free to shop accordingly. No rights are threatened in this scenario. What's wrong with that?

 

Next it was "You're the one that wants to legislate." NOW you are on the subject of rights. Legislation as in "curtailing the rights of some law abiding tax paying citizens to do what other law abiding tax paying citizens can do" is THE perfect definition of taking AWAY rights, through the force of the government - either by enshrining the lack of rights of some law abiding tax paying citizens at the federal level, or by seeking to overturn existing rights via referendum at the state level (as Ratfink pointed out).

 

Either way, the definition of "rights" is not being respected in these posts when free consumers are defined as a "threat" to a businessman's rights, but active legislation against a whole body of the population is "what's wrong with that?"

 

Further still to the topic at hand, we are all free consumers. We are free and indeed morally bound in some sense to spend our money - grant our approval of service and product and all it stands for - anywhere legal we wish.

 

-MKL

[beemerman2k]

Yeah, I must say I agree with your view here. Mayor Mennino (Boston's Mayor) isn't setting a good precedent here. Such actions do not belong in government. If the people of Boston so decide not to spend their money at this restaurant, that's their decision.

 

Excuse me, folks. If I can interrupt this conversation for just a quick second.

 

I just want it known that I docked myself a formal warning for the stricken comment above. The reason is that I inadvertently violated our own "no politics" rule, and that rule is pretty dang important.

 

If you simply confined your research to this thread alone, you'll see how potentially flammable politics and opposing ideological viewpoints can be. If you extend your research to the history of this boad, you'd find countless fights and even the threat of physical violence over contentious ideological differences. Therefore, our "no politics" rule is pretty firm and we cannot tolerate compromises.

 

I would love to think I will be the last person to be so warned, but I know this isn't the case. Be aware, however, that all of us are bound to the same set of rules; there are no favorites or excuses.

 

OK, back to your regularly scheduled programming

[tallman]

My family has millions of miles driving GM cars with 2 breakdowns, both a 1977 Sunbird.

Our family has 10's of millions, prolly a 100 million lifetime

and the paucity of breakdowns is noteworthy.

YMMV

[pbharvey]

My family has millions of miles driving GM cars with 2 breakdowns, both a 1977 Sunbird.

Our family has 10's of millions, prolly a 100 million lifetime

and the paucity of breakdowns is noteworthy.

YMMV

 

That's obviously attributed to the oil you use.

 

Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone cares if their biodiesel comes from an "approved" restaurant?

[David13]

MM did indeed V. (And my attitude has nothing to do with the bailout)

dc

[ratfink]

Microsoft executives, among others have donated significant sums to defeat the onerous anti-gay referendum that is looming in Wahington state.

 

I would encourage anyone that disagrees with their stance to refrain from using any device that utilizes, recognizes or connects to any other device that operates on the Microsoft platform.

[Quinn]

Microsoft executives, among others have donated significant sums to defeat the onerous anti-gay referendum that is looming in Wahington state.

 

I would encourage anyone that disagrees with their stance to refrain from using any device that utilizes, recognizes or connects to any other device that operates on the Microsoft platform.

 

 

Well, I'm not going to do that, but I will continue to blue screen and not load some websites or pictures on a random basis. I guess I need to check and see if they've contributed to the campaigns of any anti-gun candidates, Planned Parenthood, etc. Maybe they serve meat in their cafeteria, get electricity from coal-fired generators, or have built on a sacred Indian burial site.

 

-----

 

 

[Selden]

Mike, I would like to point out in a short and simple way where Chick-Fil-A has moved from a purely theoretical stance in opposing gay marriage to actively pushing an agenda against it. The other day I was made aware of the fact that in the past couple of years (or it may be closer to 8 years) that their Winshape Foundation has actively funded organizations that have fought at the ballot box to suppress the legalization of gay marriage. Millions and millions of dollars spent on a cause that I am opposed to. Because of this, I no longer am a customer of theirs. Product is good (but overpriced), but I just voted with my wallet (same with Wal-Mart as Ken has pointed out).

Yesterday Jeff Bezos of Amazon announced he is giving $2.5 million in support of a civil union law in the state of Washington. I never eat at Chick fil-A, and I'm an Amazon junkie, so no behavioral change for me, but I can imagine people with a different perspective making the opposite choices. Both Bezos and Cathy have put their wallets where their mouths are, which is fine with me.

[ratfink]

[quote=Quinn

 

Well, I'm not going to do that, but I will continue to blue screen and not load some websites or pictures on a random basis. I guess I need to check and see if they've contributed to the campaigns of any anti-gun candidates, Planned Parenthood, etc. Maybe they serve meat in their cafeteria, get electricity from coal-fired generators, or have built on a sacred Indian burial site.

 

-----

 

 

This is from a news article about MS cafeterias:

 

Typhoon! Express is technically part of the Microsoft cafeteria in Issaquah, sharing cooking facilities with the existing food-services operation, with no separate seating or table service. Think of it as one selection in a food court. But it's serving some of the same dishes as its full-service restaurants, currently including a Buddha's Feast, chicken with basil, panang curry and a seasonal salad of asparagus with chicken and coconut dressing.

 

 

 

Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/lifestyle/food/article/On-Dining-Typhoon-comes-ashore-on-Microsoft-s-1206023.php#ixzz21vreFV2c

 

Seems like Buddha's Feast is winning out over Chikfilla.

[upflying]

I'm kind of wondering if all this Chick Fil A boycott publicity is having the opposite effect. Prior to this, I had never heard of CFA and most certainly have never eaten in one. I reckon for obvious reasons, CFA is intentionally scarce in NorCcal.

I can say when and if I see one, I plan to patronize it. I intend to thank the management for having a CEO who is unafraid of standing up for his personal beliefs and freedom of speech. It's refreshing to see bravery in these times of political correctness run amok.

Again, I have no problem with Gay rights or Gay marriage. If two people love each other, have at it.

I suspect those who will actively boycott CFA is a small minority.

Any loss of business due to the boycott will be overshadowed by consumers like me who will now make an overt effort to patronize the business.

Now that I think of it, isn't In-N-Out a faith based, Christian business?

[Selden]

I just want it known that I docked myself a formal warning for the stricken comment above. The reason is that I inadvertently violated our own "no politics" rule, and that rule is pretty dang important.

In doing so you made your point much more clearly than if you hadn't.

[Selden]

Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone cares if their biodiesel comes from an "approved" restaurant?

Now, there is an interesting dilemma. Would someone be willing to use biodiesel from Chick fil-A? Would Moshe be keeping kosher if he used biodiesel (not that that will happen with a Prius or a Volt) from Pig n Chik?

 

The world is full of gray, very little black and white. Going back to the OP, I vote with my pocketbook, and I don't care to persuade others to follow my example. It's a private issue, there is a small ethical component to my choices.

[ratfink]

Yesterday Jeff Bezos of Amazon announced he is giving $2.5 million in support of a civil union law in the state of Washington. I never eat at Chick fil-A, and I'm an Amazon junkie, so no behavioral change for me, but I can imagine people with a different perspective making the opposite choices. Both Bezos and Cathy have put their wallets where their mouths are, which is fine with me.

 

Selden, please forgive me if I'm being picayunish but Gay Marriage is currently legal in Washington although there is a moratorium, pending outcome of the November election and a referendum to overturn legality of gay marriage. Jeff Bezos donation is to oppose the referendum. It is not civil union per se but gay marriage that is the issue here.

[pbharvey]

I vote with my pocketbook,

 

Me too. I tend to support rather than withhold. The local small business guy receives a tangible benefit from my purchase ( as do I) but me not buying a few items from Amazon or wherever is a drop in the ocean.

 

I still, for the life of me, cannot accept politicians choosing sides against a fast food restaurant. Now the mayor (soon to be convicted felon) of a major city with the initials DC has voiced his distaste with what he calls "hate chicken."

 

I expect Chick-fil-A to have its biggest day ever next Wednesday. I'll be buying lunch for my office staff (but not telling them why). Our family will eat dinner there next Wednesday and I'll also get some gift cards. The net effect is that I'll feel better; the real effect is an immeasurable bump for the franchisee and his suppliers.

 

 

[ratfink]

I expect Chick-fil-A to have its biggest day ever next Wednesday. I'll be buying lunch for my office staff (but not telling them why). Our family will eat dinner there next Wednesday and I'll also get some gift cards. The net effect is that I'll feel better; the real effect is an immeasurable bump for the franchisee and his suppliers.

 

 

You could probably cut down on your health insurance costs and lost time due to illness if you buy your employees some healthier food. Their bodies are temples. If you're gonna eat twice a day at Chikfilla be prepared to loosen the bible belt a notch or two.

[TyTass]

... but I can imagine people with a different perspective making the opposite choices. Both Bezos and Cathy have put their wallets where their mouths are, which is fine with me.

 

Agreed ... it's fine by me also. They certainly have that right to do so. However, though I tend to base my 99.9% of my decision whether or not to patronize a busines on the products, service, or value I receive, there are rare times when I will choose not to patronize a business because they are actively taking measuresto oppose something I believe is good/right/fair or supporting something I think is bad/wrong/unfair.

 

Do I spend all my time researching every business I do business with? No. Do I do it on every issue? No. I only do so on issues that pass a certain threshold of significance to me (which aren't many). Like I said ... it's rare that I do so. So, in the end I must admit to coming off as either being a bit lazy about it or as inconsistent. You're free to think what you like.

 

(Not @ Seldon) I think it obvious that those of us who do exercise these little personal boycotts (i.e., voting with our wallets) conciously admit believing that supporting a business who takes active measures against our viewpoints is assisting the "opposition" or somehow condoning their actions. However, we then shouldn't find ourselves surprised at others who are opposed to the passing of a law that is in opposition to their beliefs. And we certainly shouldn't be the ones telling them that passing such a law has nothing to do with them condoning those views should any (significant amount of) state/federal funds go to allowing others to exercise those "new" rights.

[Dave McReynolds]

So far, what I read is that some of you plan to boycott Chick-Fill-A, a place you probably wouldn't eat at anyway, or if you were tempted to eat there in a weak moment you would find plenty of alternatives within a few blocks, because of COO Dan Cathy's statements on gay marriage. What a courageous stance!

 

China is not known for being particularly progressive about gay rights. I think it would be a fair guess that many, if not most, owners of Chinese factories would agree with Cathy's conclusions, although not for the same religious based reasons. If it were found that all the owners of all Chinese computer manufacturing companies felt that way, would it influence your decision on buying a computer manufactured in China? I doubt it; if US unemployment stats don't cause any moral outrage, then why should their position on gay rights? A ridiculous comparison, right? After all, we NEED our computers, and not buying Chinese made computers would cause a huge problem! Not at all the same thing as being able to make a moral statement without any consequences, which we should all rise up and do whenever the opportunity arises.

[pbharvey]

I expect Chick-fil-A to have its biggest day ever next Wednesday. I'll be buying lunch for my office staff (but not telling them why). Our family will eat dinner there next Wednesday and I'll also get some gift cards. The net effect is that I'll feel better; the real effect is an immeasurable bump for the franchisee and his suppliers.

 

 

You could probably cut down on your health insurance costs and lost time due to illness if you buy your employees some healthier food. Their bodies are temples. If you're gonna eat twice a day at Chikfilla be prepared to loosen the bible belt a notch or two.

 

...I also feed them Dunkin' Donuts carefully crafted by my local Hindu friend.

 

 

 

[ you don't want to start a conversation with a small business owner about health insurance ]

[TyTass]

Dave ... you seemed to have missed the entire discussion about someone boycotting, say Chic-Fil-A, based not on the beliefs of Chik-Fil-A COO, but on his taking active measures to oppose the issue. By doing so he entered the political arena. So what's the surprise that people respond?

[Dave McReynolds]

Dave ... you seemed to have missed the entire discussion about someone boycotting, say Chic-Fil-A, based not on the beliefs of Chik-Fil-A COO, but on his taking active measures to oppose the issue. By doing so he entered the political arena. So what's the surprise that people respond?

 

Thanks for the clarification. However, having put one foot in, I might as well put the other one in as well. People certainly have the right to buy, or not to buy, any legal product for any reason they wish. However, to carry on a pages-long discussion about a decision that will have no consequences to the person making it, and probably none to Chic-Fill-A either, boggles my mind. Of course, my mind is easily boggled.

[TyTass]

Dave ... you seemed to have missed the entire discussion about someone boycotting, say Chic-Fil-A, based not on the beliefs of Chik-Fil-A COO, but on his taking active measures to oppose the issue. By doing so he entered the political arena. So what's the surprise that people respond?

 

Thanks for the clarification. However, having put one foot in, I might as well put the other one in as well. People certainly have the right to buy, or not to buy, any legal product for any reason they wish. However, to carry on a pages-long discussion about a decision that will have no consequences to the person making it, and probably none to Chic-Fill-A either, boggles my mind. Of course, my mind is easily boggled.

Actually ... I guess I agree with that, too. As I said about my own cases, I admit to being inconsistent and perhaps even more significantly (which I failed to mention) I've stopped in later years of even taking the bother to write the company to let them know I'm boycotting them! So, yeah ... I'm pretty silly, indeed!

[Selden]

Selden, please forgive me if I'm being picayunish but Gay Marriage is currently legal in Washington although there is a moratorium, pending outcome of the November election and a referendum to overturn legality of gay marriage. Jeff Bezos donation is to oppose the referendum. It is not civil union per se but gay marriage that is the issue here.

Thanks for the clarification; you are much closer to the situation in Washington, while I'm in the home of Chick fil-A.

[upflying]

So far, what I read is that some of you plan to boycott Chick-Fill-A, a place you probably wouldn't eat at anyway, or if you were tempted to eat there in a weak moment you would find plenty of alternatives within a few blocks, because of COO Dan Cathy's statements on gay marriage. What a courageous stance!

 

China is not known for being particularly progressive about gay rights. I think it would be a fair guess that many, if not most, owners of Chinese factories would agree with Cathy's conclusions, although not for the same religious based reasons. If it were found that all the owners of all Chinese computer manufacturing companies felt that way, would it influence your decision on buying a computer manufactured in China? I doubt it; if US unemployment stats don't cause any moral outrage, then why should their position on gay rights? A ridiculous comparison, right? After all, we NEED our computers, and not buying Chinese made computers would cause a huge problem! Not at all the same thing as being able to make a moral statement without any consequences, which we should all rise up and do whenever the opportunity arises.

While Chinese computer factories may or may not agree with Cathy, they certainly do give reason to boycott them.

I hereby refuse to buy any Apple products due to unfair labor practices.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2012/01/should-consumers-boycott-apple-.html

[tallman]

My family has millions of miles driving GM cars with 2 breakdowns, both a 1977 Sunbird.

Our family has 10's of millions, prolly a 100 million lifetime

and the paucity of breakdowns is noteworthy.

YMMV

 

That's obviously attributed to the oil you use.

 

Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone cares if their biodiesel comes from an "approved" restaurant?

 

I tend to favor coconut oil for frying.

Huge GM family in Mishmashagain with often 25-30 GM vehicles at any one time for the past 70 years.

Over 520,000 on our 4 current ones that me/wife/daughters drive.

Fortunate for sure but that's our experience.

 

Some of us drive to CFlay, not me, but we have $pent time there.

I don't care until they start putting voting guides on the bag and mood altering drugs

in the food.

[moshe_levy]

Huge GM family in Mishmashagain with often 25-30 GM vehicles at any one time for the past 70 years.

Over 520,000 on our 4 current ones that me/wife/daughters drive.

Fortunate for sure but that's our experience.

 

Some of us drive to CFlay, not me, but we have $pent time there.

I don't care until they start putting voting guides on the bag and mood altering drugs

in the food.

 

Tim, I'm encouraged by your GM experience. My experiences with American cars (mostly Ford, but some GM and Dodge too) has been universally horrible. My new Volt is my first American car in 15 years! The dealer told me this is a very common sentiment he's hearing, so it's good to see this car (and others, in fairness) luring customers back from foreign brands. So far, I would not hesitate to release a new model once done with this one - a thought echoed in the recent JD Power survey where the Volt had the highest owner satisfaction of any car out there, period. Good for GM.

 

Now to Chick, I don't remember seeing one around these parts since I was a young boy. My mom used to get it for us at the mall food court. It's been about 25 years since I've seen one, but to be honest, I'm not really looking.

 

I find it interesting that some think this boycott will bring the company to its knees while others are rooting for the company in support of its CEO's beliefs. I personally think it will be a wash.

 

I also think that particular company shows a total lack of taste (no pun) in their retroactive recall of Jim Henson's muppets in their kids meals. Henson pulled his goods out when he found out about the company's stance, and the company reacted by posting that Henson's toys were a "safety risk" - even as they were careful to say that nobody has ever actually been injured. Classless.

 

-MKL

[Mike]

It appears, from my reading of this thread, that many are missing a critical point: Chick-Fil-A serves some pretty darned good chicken sandwiches in a friendly, impeccably clean environment.

 

I just thought I'd point that out for those who do not feel a need to make any statement by where you choose to buy your chicken sandwiches. Apparently it's a minority here, a crowd that apparently thinks about these things quite a bit, but if you're one of the chose few who occasionally craves a lightly breaded chicken breast cooked to perfection and served on a tasty bun--and sexual politics are not a major component of your sandwich decision-making matrix--I would encourage you to give it a whirl. Their curly fries make a fine accompaniment.

 

Oh, yeah...they also come around and offer you free refills on your drinks.

 

I apologize for this interruption, but few things are as important as where to find a good chicken sandwich. Now, back to deeper, more profound thoughts....

[ratfink]

I find it interesting that some think this boycott will bring the company to its knees while others are rooting for the company in support of its CEO's beliefs. I personally think it will be a wash.

 

I also think that particular company shows a total lack of taste (no pun) in their retroactive recall of Jim Henson's muppets in their kids meals. Henson pulled his goods out when he found out about the company's stance, and the company reacted by posting that Henson's toys were a "safety risk" - even as they were careful to say that nobody has ever actually been injured. Classless.

 

-MKL

 

I agree Moshe that overall it will probably be a wash. I have to believe though, that the operators at certain outlets such as the lone store in Washington or the one at USC might be suffering a little anxiety and maybe more likely to have their faith tested.

[moshe_levy]

No doubt. And those in "redder" areas are probably licking their chops at all the extra support that will pour in. Nationally, I see a wash.

 

-MKL

[ratfink]

From Bloomberg Business Week:

 

"Meanwhile, students from at least seven schools have launched petitions on Change.org to demand the removal of Chick-fil-A franchises from their campuses"

 

I'm not sure if they are more ticked about the gay thing or the Henson thing. Outside Dixie I think their expansion plans will meet alot of opposition unless Cathy recants and repents.

[Firefight911]

Boy, all this bandwidth use is making my head hurt. I think I'll get off duty tomorrow and go drive all my internal combustion engines that run on my middle eastern oil....uh oh, are all of you boycotting oil, too???? I mean, it's not like they are exactly the pinnacle of LGBT rights but boycotting middle eastern oil might actually impact something a little too close to home for some.

[Gregori]

I don't believe that much of our petroleum comes from the middle east. So I googled it...

 

The US imports about 58% of the oil we use.

Other than the 42% that is produced at home, here is where we get the oil:

 

Canada 11%

Mexico 11%

Saudi Arabia 9%

Venezuela 8%

Nigeria 7%

Iraq 4%

25 other countries 8%

 

(So even if you presumed that half of the 'misc' was from the middle east, that's still only about 20% of our supply from there...)

 

 

Read more: Sources of U.S. Oil Imports -- http://www.infoplease.com/science/energy/us-oil-imports.html#ixzz2212tyQb1

[moshe_levy]

Greg-

 

You're painting quite a rosy picture there - way too rosy in my view - but I fear we're diverging too much from the OP's topic. If you wish to start a new thread on this topic I'd be happy to discuss this issue of oil importation with you and whoever else wants to join.

 

-MKL

[Dave McReynolds]

Greg-

 

You're painting quite a rosy picture there - way too rosy in my view - but I fear we're diverging too much from the OP's topic. If you wish to start a new thread on this topic I'd be happy to discuss this issue of oil importation with you and whoever else wants to join.

 

-MKL

 

Agreed. It is a very complex issue, that I would like to know more about. For example, assume a country produced 100% of the oil it consumed, but all the oil was produced by multi-national companies. Would that make it energy independent, or would it actually be more like an early 20th century "banana republic?"

[Boone60]

I vote with my money, and try not to support a business that posts a campaign sign or contributes to politics that I disagree with.

[Peter Parts]

.... all of which leads me to introduce a topic nobody ever wants to talk about:

 

motorcycles made by countries which once were enemies.

 

I honestly have no consistent opinion on how you deal with companies with owners who hold beliefs that irritate us, bikes made by German or Japanese companies (or almost anybody but Switzerland), companies that make stuff using oppressed labor, countries where female circumcision is the norm, etc.

 

There is a labor-relations principle about "secondary boycotts" that may be relevant here.

 

Anybody have a principled position?

 

Ben

[moshe_levy]

Ben-

 

You make an excellent point. It's the same point I made about boycotting GM for accepting a bailout, when in fact EVERY automaker is subsidized. Dig deep and you will see you are correct in that our motorcycle brand of choice was not exactly on the right side during WWII. And we can look at other German brands, Japanese, Korean, Chinese (not so much available here, but you get the point) in past history and find plenty to complain about. Hell, did you ever read Henry Ford's writings on race relations? Ugh....

 

I think what I would say is - do you hold a grudge for generations, or do you hold a grudge right now based on what happens now?

 

let me put it this way: My name is Moshe Levy. You can imagine, I would not have been too popular during the Third Reich, yet here I am riding BMWs. I don't believe that today's BMW employees have any solid ties to that regime, or hold it as a prevailing point of honor. I have never seen any proof to the contrary. I think they're pretty far removed, in fact, the same way I really have no idea what my grandfather was up to when he was a young man. His sins are not mine. So I don't have a problem buying their products (and it doesn't hurt that the products are damn good, like some here say about Chick Fil A).

 

But what about a case where something I oppose or support deeply is happening today, right now? Do I vote with my pocketbook? Hell, yes. How can you not? Where you spend your money says everything about you!

 

-MKL

[upflying]

.... all of which leads me to introduce a topic nobody ever wants to talk about:

 

motorcycles made by countries which once were enemies.

 

I honestly have no consistent opinion on how you deal with companies with owners who hold beliefs that irritate us, bikes made by German or Japanese companies (or almost anybody but Switzerland), companies that make stuff using oppressed labor, countries where female circumcision is the norm, etc.

 

There is a labor-relations principle about "secondary boycotts" that may be relevant here.

 

Anybody have a principled position?

 

Ben

Well since you brought it up, let's add Swedish motorcycles to the no boycott list. Besides Switzerland, Sweden was also neutral during WWII.

http://cybermotorcycle.com/euro/sweden.htm

[Fubar]

I'm with you, Ken, on both the Chik'n pushers and Wally World.

I've never been really comfortable with Chik-fil-a's religious push but this is more than I can bear. I don't give a rat's ass what the personal beliefs of Mr. Cathy are but when he starts using corporate cash, i.e., MY money to push an agenda I am diametrically opposed to, that's when I cut off the tap. Hope my 8 year old understands someday.

Wal-mart I avoid like the plague but did buy oil for the bike there once.

And more regionally, I don't like Publix for their long, lawsuit-riddled history of discriminatory advancement practices against their female employees. Strangely, my wife loves them. Her choice.

 

In the end, the choices we make concerning this and other issues are ones WE have to live with regardless of the financial impact to the corporations they are directed at. I have to sleep at night and having the courage of my convictions allows me to do so.

[Boone60]

But what about a case where something I oppose or support deeply is happening today, right now? Do I vote with my pocketbook? Hell, yes. How can you not? Where you spend your money says everything about you!

 

-MKL

 

Investments also play into how money is used.

[DiggerJim]

I don't give a rat's ass what the personal beliefs of Mr. Cathy are but when he starts using corporate cash, i.e., MY money to push an agenda I am diametrically opposed to, that's when I cut off the tap.

Except Chick-fil-A is a private company so it's not your money, it's his to do with as he chooses. Although I expect we are fast coming to the point where a business owner is risking their business if they are proactive about any non-politically correct position. Better to stay out of the political advocacy thing altogether because there's always someone with an ox to gore and your views may not match someone with a viral twitter account. There are a number of issues where there is no room for dialog without having it immediately descending into name calling.