1200RT vs. 1200GS questions

[Luma46]

I wonder if somebody could answer few questions for me. Let me give you a bit of background first. I have sold my 2006 BMW 1200GS last May and bought a brand new 2012 Moto Guzzi Stelvio. There was nothing wrong with the GS (well couple minor irritants), but I just thought that starting a retirement, I deserve a new bike.

 

It was not a spur of the moment purchase, I read all kinds of possible reviews and emailed few owners before I made my mind. The problem was that I never had a chance to test drive the bike and I had to make a deposit on the bike as they have been in a short supply.

 

Now I keep constantly comparing the Stelvio to my GS and some of the comparisons are not very favourable. Don’t get me wrong, Stelvio is a bike with great character, excellent handling and seating comfort, lots of power, but there are things that just do not resonate with me right…

 

To name few negatives:

- engine and transmission are not as refined, it is not clunky, but fairly noisy valvetrain and some whine especially in lower gears and lower RPMs on acceleration

- Engine doesn’t pull as smoothly from 2500 to 3500 as the GS did and there is quite a bit of vibration in handlebars at 100 kms/h, which is my preferred speed

- Poorer protection from wind and elements

- the cylinders being higher up direct lots of heat on my upper legs, especially the left side

- The bike is heavy and I mean top heavy with its 32 ltr tank

- I am not very happy with the OEM hard cases that make the bike 42” wide

 

So considering all pros and cons, I am looking at BMW again. I like the twin cylinder engines, I like the suspension and handling of the R1200xx bikes and I have to have a shaft drive. As I do not go off road, except the occasional stretch of gravel or hard packed road, I think that RT would be a better fit for me than GS. I would most probably go with a low mileage 2008 or 2009, as I prefer the ease of valves adjustment and I want to be able to drain the FD oil. So my questions are, how the RT compares with GS:

 

1. How much better is the wind and elements protection on RT compared to GS? Is it dramatic difference or just noticeable.

2. Is it hot with the extra fairing in summer or too cold on cold days with the engine isolated from rider by fairing.

3. Does the fairing on RT isolate better the noises from engine and tranny compared to GS?

4. Is it hard to take the fairing off for any work on the engine, including the valves adjust?

5. Does the bike look OK with the side cases detached?

6. Is the engine and STANDARD features on the 2010+ models worth the extra money?

7. What would you consider the best benefit of RT compared to GS?

 

Sorry for the long post and thanks for any input.

 

[Guest Kakugo]

Hi and welcome.

To answer your questions:

 

1)Much, much better, especially when the weather is less than favorable.

2)In summer you may want a bit of extra air flow but a cooling vest (cheaper than any aftermarket windshield) will do just fine. I am used to riding at well below freezing temperatures and the RT has a protection second to none.

3)I ride with earplugs so I cannot really answer that...

4)Most regular maintenance can be done without removing a single fairing panel. Panels are an excellent fit and easy to remove/install when needed.

5)Yes.

6)I am biased but a late production Hexhead (2008-2009) will do just fine. Please take into account the new water cooled boxer will arrive early next year to consider depreciation.

7)You can ride 300+ miles a day without getting tired no matter the road and the weather conditions.

[krussell]

Have you spent some time demoing the RT? It's a much more compact riding position than the GS. I had an R1200RT with bar risers, peg lowers, custom seat, and still felt scrunched at 6'4". Went to a GSA and loved the riding position. I added an aeroflow screen to the GSA in the winter, and ran it with an instrument cover in the summer. Best of both worlds.

 

The GS/GSA are more acceptable when dirty, the RT begs to be washed.

 

Went from the GSA to K1600GTL this spring:

 

1) Really miss the top loading panniers that were on the GSA. I think they were 42" wide too though.

2) The GSA tank + Aeroflow combination had better wind protection, but still not as complete as the RT.

 

As previously mentioned, the tupperware on the RT is easily removed as needed, I would not consider it a significant factor.

 

#7 Best RT Feature - CRUISE CONTROL :-)

[Luma46]

Have you spent some time demoing the RT? It's a much more compact riding position than the GS. I had an R1200RT with bar risers, peg lowers, custom seat, and still felt scrunched at 6'4". Went to a GSA and loved the riding position. I added an aeroflow screen to the GSA in the winter, and ran it with an instrument cover in the summer. Best of both worlds.

 

The GS/GSA are more acceptable when dirty, the RT begs to be washed.

 

Went from the GSA to K1600GTL this spring:

 

1) Really miss the top loading panniers that were on the GSA. I think they were 42" wide too though.

2) The GSA tank + Aeroflow combination had better wind protection, but still not as complete as the RT.

 

As previously mentioned, the tupperware on the RT is easily removed as needed, I would not consider it a significant factor.

 

#7 Best RT Feature - CRUISE CONTROL :-)

 

Unfortunately my nearest BMW dealer in Calgary (250 kms) does demo rides only once in a year, I missed the last one. Just had a chance to sit on one, but it was a low seat version.

I am 5'11" 31" inseam so I shouldn't feel too cramped on RT.

[krussell]

I am 5'11" 31" inseam so I shouldn't feel too cramped on RT.

 

I agree, the RT will fit nicely.

 

One more thing I did't mention earlier is suspension travel. I ride a lot of roads with sunken grade / frost heave / potholes etc. I got very lazy on the GSA given the extra suspension travel. You'll need to be more diligent on the RT on poor pavement.

[Alfred02]

Sounds to me that a fully decked out version would be more suitable to you.

With the windscreen all the way down, you will get plenty of airflow in the summer and being adjustable at a push of a button, you should be able to find a position that suits your needs.

As you are asking about hot and cold,it sounds like that heated seats will come more towards what you are looking for. (As far as I am aware, it comes standard with heated grips anyway).

Suspension? ESA is the go, despite of what you might have read here in regards to ESA issues in some of the bikes and that others do not like it (remember you very seldom hear of people that "are happy with their bikes/options), I would not do without it.

Throw in ABS with traction control and you are ready to go.

 

I don't know if you can over in the USA, but here they call the fully decked out version R1200RT/SE.

Our local dealer over here doesn't even bother putting a basic version on the showroom floor.

 

By the way..looks without the panniers? Unless you would know the bike, you never would guess that panniers are part of it.

There will be some pictures floating about on the Internet without panniers.

 

What do you mean your local BMW dealer doesn't let you have a test ride? What sort of a business person is he/she???

Must be selling too many and sounds like they need competition.

 

In regards to the water cooled boxer coming out:

That's probably fine for us that already ride an RT...we can wait.

But if I wanted to buy a bike now, I would just go with the latest CAM Head, instead of waiting what??? 2 plus years?

 

[cali_beemer]

For me the GS suspension is the selling point...it sucks up everything. However on pavement, other than capability to suck up bumps the RT out does the GS IMO. Really, an RT built off the GS longer travel suspension would be nice.

[johnlt]

I currently have both a R1200GS and a R1200RT. Past bike was a R1200GS Adventure so I think I can comment from experience. The GS/GSA is a little more "nimble". Turning radius is quicker so easier in the parking lots. With a Laminar Lip on the GS/GSA, it approaches the RT in wind protection, especially the GS Adventure due to the larger tank. Removing the tupper ware is an irritant but no big deal. Adds 30 minutes to a full maintenance. The swinger to me for long distance was the "real" cruise control on the RT. With all the interstates and lonely roads in the western US, it is really nice. I've got throttle locks on the GS but it is still not a real cruise control. If I could get cruise control on my GS Adventure, that would be my choice because I also do a lot of dirt roads. The RT is an awesome long distance tourer but the GS ADV comes close. I did Washinton DC to Tucson in two days back to back (2400 miles) on the GS ADV with no problem but would have loved to have the Cruise control. Just MO,

[sfarson]

Luma, Coincidently, ride an '07 12GSADV, '07 12RT, and '09 Stelvio. I concur with your Stelvio impressions... a wonderful and characteful bike, but no 12GS.

 

Returned from a 12RT trip last week. Really, one of the best road going bikes ever designed and produced. It wins touring awards and sport touring awards. RiDE Magazine UK just gave it its top award. I'm 6'4" and fit within its confines just fine.

 

My short answers...

 

1. Much better

2. No

3. Yes

4. A little extra time

5. Yes

6. IMO, no

7. A finer road ride... protection, comfort, tranny, etc.

[GRB60]

...and don't shy away from the Camheads (2010+). The maintenance is different from the Hexhead but not more complex.

[Fubar]

#7 Best RT Feature - CRUISE CONTROL :-)

Huge selling point to me.

The GS/GSA are more acceptable when dirty, the RT begs to be washed.

We're supposed to wash them? I didn't get that memo. Maybe I'll just leave it out in the rain for a few hours. That's the same thing, right?

 

[SPX]

6)I am biased but a late production Hexhead (2008-2009) will do just fine. Please take into account the new water cooled boxer will arrive early next year to consider depreciation.

 

Not quite that quickly.... I suspect we're 9 months away from seeing the water cooled boxer on a GS, and 14-16 months away from seeing it on an RT

[RTinNC]

 

1. How much better is the wind and elements protection on RT compared to GS? Is it dramatic difference or just noticeable. Better ... dramatic? I would say not with the GSA shield and wind wings but probably dramatic on the Std. GS.

2. Is it hot with the extra fairing in summer or too cold on cold days with the engine isolated from rider by fairing.Hotter yes but for me not horrible ... but there is a benefit in cooler weather. Just did a 3 day weekend on the RT with temps. above 90 and no issues.

3. Does the fairing on RT isolate better the noises from engine and tranny compared to GS?

Like someone else stated I wear ear plugs no can't tell on either bike

4. Is it hard to take the fairing off for any work on the engine, including the valves adjust? It is annoying to have to do it but once you do it once not a big deal and adds maybe 10 min. to the work.

5. Does the bike look OK with the side cases detached?It looks just OK IMHO so I never ride with them off as I think they look great ON.

6. Is the engine and STANDARD features on the 2010+ models worth the extra money? I am shopping for a 1200 GS now and I am leaning toward the 2010+ for the motor. Everything I hear is pretty much positive. I do not want a liquid cooled motor.

7. What would you consider the best benefit of RT compared to GS?The RT is a better long distance bike when there are highways included. The cruise control is great! and the added wind protection is really nice above say 60 MPH. But on back roads and curvy roads the GS is king!

 

Just my opinion having owned a RT for about 4 years now and a R1150GS and shopping for a 1200GS. I have demo ridden the 1200GS a numerous times.

[OlGeezer]

...and don't shy away from the Camheads (2010+). The maintenance is different from the Hexhead but not more complex.

 

Is the valve ADJUSTMENT frequency less than on the oilheads and hexheads?

[Geoffster]

My recent history: 2005 RT, 2009 GSA, 2011 RT

 

1. How much better is the wind and elements protection on RT compared to GS? Is it dramatic difference or just noticeable.

 

Better on the RT, primarily shoulders, arms, and hands. Not dramatic, IMHO.

 

2. Is it hot with the extra fairing in summer or too cold on cold days with the engine isolated from rider by fairing.

 

The RT is very warm in the summer because the hot air from the oil cooler is less diluted with cooler air. I bought a Cee Bailey sport shield, and it makes life better. It's wonderfully warm when it's cold!

 

3. Does the fairing on RT isolate better the noises from engine and tranny compared to GS?

 

Probably, but like other posters, I wear ear plugs.

 

4. Is it hard to take the fairing off for any work on the engine, including the valves adjust?

 

The "tupperware" has to be removed for throttle body sync. If you're practiced and have an electric drill-driver, it's no big deal. A dealer mechanic who does it nearly every day has removal down to 8 minutes. I think I'm at 15 minutes.

 

5. Does the bike look OK with the side cases detached?

 

Because the side cases weigh 11# each -- and "filtering" (lane splitting) is legal in California -- I rarely use my cases. I think it looks fine. And the bags' mount points work well with ROX mini straps.

 

6. Is the engine and STANDARD features on the 2010+ models worth the extra money?

 

Yes, yes, YES. The sum of all the little changes is huge, IMHO.

 

7. What would you consider the best benefit of RT compared to GS?

 

Automotive-style electronic speed control.

 

BTW, these are EXCELLENT questions that really cut to the heart of the on-pavement differences between the RT and the GS(A)!

 

NOTE: As far as nimbleness, a GS is lighter on its feet, however, if you run maximum front tire pressure on an RT (~40 psi), it brings you closer. At the owner's manual pressure, it feels vague and uninspiring.

[Dave_in_TX]

...and don't shy away from the Camheads (2010+). The maintenance is different from the Hexhead but not more complex.

 

Is the valve ADJUSTMENT frequency less than on the oilheads and hexheads?

 

A service writer at my local dealer told me they rarely hsve to adjust valve clearance on the camheads.

[RTinNC]

...and don't shy away from the Camheads (2010+). The maintenance is different from the Hexhead but not more complex.

 

Is the valve ADJUSTMENT frequency less than on the oilheads and hexheads?

 

A service writer at my local dealer told me they rarely hsve to adjust valve clearance on the camheads.

 

+1 ... was at the dealer yesterday and speaking to the Master Tech who works on my bikes and being in the market for a 1200GS asked just that question. He said since the camhead came out he has not had to adjust one yet. Then get checked every 6K miles but the check is only about 1/2 hour labor. That and the cool sound of the camhead pretty much has me sold.

[OlGeezer]

#7 Best RT Feature - CRUISE CONTROL :-)

Huge selling point to me.

 

 

Yeah! After all, the best feature of the cruise control is that it tells you that you are on the WRONG ROAD!!!

 

[Fubar]

#7 Best RT Feature - CRUISE CONTROL :-)

Huge selling point to me.

Yeah! After all, the best feature of the cruise control is that it tells you that you are on the WRONG ROAD!!!

Ouch!

Seriously, down here it takes a lot of miles to find a stretch worth turning it off.