Clutch issue on 07 1200rt

[Trip]

Hello

I've noticed ever since I've had this bike that the clutch engagement point seems to change from when cold to after it is fully warmed up.When cold the clutch seems to engage properly relatively close to the handgrip but after it warms up I have to let the lever out quite far before the clutch engages and the bike starts moving. I don't like having to let the lever out this far to get going because it seems hard to control this far from the hand grip.

 

The dealer test rode the bike and told me it was normal but I don't think the clutch engagement point changing is normal.

 

Had a guy tell me at the rally that the slave cylinder may have a problem. Any ideas?

 

Trip

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Trip

 

That sounds like a bit of air in the clutch line.

 

Cut the tie straps holding the line to the frame then try to route the line so there are no high or low spots in the line (as straight uphill as possible from the slave cylinder to the master cylinder).

 

"There was a BMW service bulletin to do this on the GS & GSA's & the RT's clutch is about the same setup".

 

Then set the hand lever for max out from the grip.

 

Then elevate the bike's front end as much as possible (up a steep driveway or uphill) then pump the lever fast & as far as possible. (see if it gets better)

 

The hydraulic clutch's on the hexhead 1200RT's do engage a bit far from the grip even when normal.

 

[Trip]

Hi DR

 

I didn't know there was a service bulletin for the GS and GSAs for this. Do you know what year bikes this was for?

 

I guess all of the bodywork will have to come off before I can adjust the routing of the line.

 

Would you recommend changing the clutch fluid also?

 

Trip

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Trip

 

There is no model or date given as all it says is--

(Units affected: some R1200GS & R1200GS-Adv)

 

I have had the service advisory in my possession since about 2008. I would assume that at some point BMW corrected the line routing at assembly build but no idea on when or even IF.

 

There was a new (supposedly updated) slave cylinder introduced sometime late 2009 or 2010 that did seem to help the air entry problem so maybe that line re-route advisory wasn't needed after the new slave cylinder came out as line re-routing shouldn't be needed if no air can get pumped into the system to begin with.

 

[mwood7800]

my rt had a clutch problem from day one, I never thought it was engaging all the way, bmw had to replace it under warrenty at 5000 miles, they said I was hot/rodding. total BS

[Trip]

 

I contacted the dealer and they didn't think it affected any of the RTs. They thought they might bleed the clutch line and see if that helped.

 

Are other people having problems with the clutch engagement point changing from cold to hot?

 

I haven't seen any guides on changing the clutch fluid so I guess its not done very often.

 

Trip

[dirtrider]

I contacted the dealer and they didn't think it affected any of the RTs. They thought they might bleed the clutch line and see if that helped.

 

Are other people having problems with the clutch engagement point changing from cold to hot?

 

I haven't seen any guides on changing the clutch fluid so I guess its not done very often.

 

 

Afternoon Trip

 

 

Your dealer seems to be a bit naive.

 

While the service advisory isn't written to include the RT the clutch, lines, & cylinders are basically the same between the GS & RT.

 

See this link for problem on 1200RT--

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=699686&page=1

 

As far as changing the clutch fluid? there is no BMW service interval but if you see the fluid turning black change it ( & possibly the slave cylinder to go with it).

 

[Trip]

Hello Dr

 

Thanks for the link. I sure hope that slave cylinder isn't bad.

 

Trip

[Trip]

Hi DR

I read through the link and it says the release point would get closer to the hand grip if there was a bubble. My release point starts out fine when cold and then moves out as the bike heats up. I wonder if it could still be a bubble issue?

 

Trip

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Trip

 

Yes, air in the line or air emulsified in the thick hydraulic fluid can act in strange ways. Might even be some air migrating in under the slave cylinder seal while parked then working it's way out as the bike is ridden.

 

You seem to think that a release point close to the grip is normal. On most 1200RT's I have ridden that would be the exception, to me they release out more away from the grip.

 

You might be able to tell something by feeling the clutch lever free-play (lever movement before resistance is felt) first on a cold bike then later after you have ridden a while. If that free play changes much you are more than likely fighting with a aeration issue.

 

[Trip]

Hi DR

 

I like the release closer to the grip but I didn't know that was the exception on the 1200rt.

 

Will be checking the free play.

 

On a different topic, my valve adjustment

seems to have went well. The idle seems to be much smoother now.I didn't think a valve adjustment affected the idle.

 

Trip

 

 

[dirtrider]

 

On a different topic, my valve adjustment

seems to have went well. The idle seems to be much smoother now.I didn't think a valve adjustment affected the idle.

 

 

 

 

Afternoon Trip

 

As a rule valve adjustment doesn't effect the engine idle on the 1200 hexheads unless w-a-y off as the idle balance is computer controlled.

 

Probably your idle change is due to something else.

 

[Trip]

Hello

I haven't had a chance to take the tupperware off yet but was wondering if the clutch bleed was done just like the brake bleed?

 

Do you just remove the bleeder cap from the slave cylinder and crack the valve and pump out with the clutch lever? I was looking through some other threads and there seemed to be some issues with trying to use speedbleeders and such.

 

Is there a good source for the clutch fluid besides the BMW brand?

 

Trip

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Trip

 

The hydraulic clutch on the BMW 1200RT is pretty well self bleeding once the major air is initially removed.

 

At initial assembly BMW bleeds the clutch system from the bottom up as air wants to move UP the line on the fluid.

 

To bleed at home by pumping the clutch lever you need to move lots of fluid very fast to carry the air down the line & out the bottom.

 

If you have a decent clutch feel to begin with then removing the high & low spots in the fluid line should allow it to self bleed as you ride & use the clutch.

 

As to speed bleeders?-- no need on the clutch system as access to the bleed nipple is easy while working the clutch lever.

 

On the aftermarket fluid? It isn't brake fluid but a mineral based type hydraulic fluid. There seems to be some aftermarket fluids that people have used (mainly bicycle brake fluids). Personally I don't like to mix different fluids so stick with the BMW OEM fluid.

 

You can maybe bleed your system without using any new fluid by using a clear piece of vinyl hose that pushes on the slave cylinder bleed fitting then just run it up to empty into the master cylinder reservoir. That will simply re-cycle the fluid & the air will bubble out as it goes into the reservoir.

 

 

[Trip]

Hi DR

I will work on getting the clutch line straightened out and see if that helps (Don't know if thats the problem yet).

 

I wonder if I should even bother with changing the fluid?

 

I'm still a bit confused on where you bleed from. Do you use the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder or do you do it from the clutch lever area?

 

Trip

 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Trip

 

The BMW manual has no data on RE-BLEEDING the clutch system as it is not a maintenance item.

 

For initial bleeding (after slave cylinder or master cylinder install) they show using a large syringe filled with clutch fluid attached to the slave cylinder bleed fitting. After attachment the bleed fitting is opened then the fluid is FORCED from the slave cylinder up to the master cylinder using that fluid filled syringe.

 

One thing you need to keep in mind when working with thicker based mineral oil type clutch fluids is that the thicker fluid will emulsify by mixing & holding small air bubbles in the thicker fluid. So you have to be very careful to not allow that to happen during a bleeding process. It can take many hours for the air to separate from the fluid once it emulsifies.

 

Again-- the BMW 1200 clutch is self bleeding as long as the hose doesn't have high or low spots to trap air. Air naturally wants to move up on the fluid so if it is a straight shot up the hose the air will naturally migrate up & out the top.

 

[Lone_RT_rider]

Are other people having problems with the clutch engagement point changing from cold to hot?

 

Yep! Been there, done that and have the t-shirt!

 

Both Mitch and I had the same problem within 50 miles of each other on the way to Torrey last year. The pic below is my bike, with Mitch Patrie posing as the Male model.

 

[TestPilot]

DR,

 

Here's another question about clutch fluid. My clutch has green fluid from the factory. The bottle you showed in your last post has blue fluid, and I understand the current BMW replacement is pink (or red). Can these fluid all be mixed, or are there any incompatibilities, like DOT 3 or 4 vs. DOT 5 brake fluid?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Karl

 

I have no data or information saying that they can't be mixed but to be sure you might ask your local BMW dealer.

 

[Trip]

Hello all

 

I'll be taking the tupperware off this weekend and checking the clutch line.

 

When my dealer rode the bike they thought it was normal but I don't think the clutch engagement point is supposed to change that much from hot to cold. It's been this way ever since new.

 

Trip

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Trip

 

As I mentioned above check the lever free play (from rest to just feeling pressure build).

 

If that is different from cold to hot then you are possibly fighting an air in the line issue.

 

If the free play remains about the same then you might have something changing in the clutch/pressure plate/activation area of the clutch itself.

 

[Trip]

Hi DR

 

Do you mean releasing the clutch lever and checking where the clutch engages or pulling in the clutch lever until you feel pressure ?

 

Trip

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Trip

 

From rest just "very lightly" pulling on the lever until you just start feeing a bit of resistance.

 

 

Added: The ball on the end of the clutch lever has about 6mm movement until resistance on my 1200RT & the ball on the end of the lever on my GS is about 7mm free play movement.

[Trip]

Hello DR

 

Ok, I understand now. Will check.

 

Thanks

Trip