Holy Schnikes! Simultaneous Opposing Green Lights!

[Mike]

We've all be taught never to completely trust a green light, but yesterday, while motoring in my socially irresponsible SUV, I personally witnessed something I've never seen before.

 

I was westbound on U.S. 34 and came to a stop at a red light. A young gent on a motorcycle facing southbound on the intersecting street (so, to my right) was stopped for a red light. We got a green light and just as the other two vehicles (to my left) and I started accelerating, the motorcyclist rode directly into our path.

 

"Holy crap! What's the matter with him?"

 

Then, I looked at the lights. Not only did we have a green light . . . he did, too! Luckily, the other westbound drivers saw the guy, and he realized he was nearly toast, zigging to his right to avoid getting nailed.

 

The local PD was just down the street, so I pulled in and reported the traffic light malfunction.

 

Luckily, we were all just pulling away from a red light, so no one was going too fast and there was enough time to react. Still, it was unnerving, a good reminder that you should never assume, because you have the right of way, that those who do not are not a danger.

 

I've seen people blow red lights and stop signs, but I have never before seen a signal malfunction like this. Stay on your toes!

[donbmw]

There is I light that I go through every day that I have seen go to green and you can see it go red just as you start moving. The first time I though I had run the light. Both times I have seen this has been low volume traffic with me being the only one at the light. The also have sensor that sense the traffic so this may be why it has done this. Have not seen this happen again.

[EddyQ]

Around here, I've seen many green lights when the other side has a green arrow. But never both with green.

[upflying]

I suppose it is possible to get opposing greens but I was always taught traffic signals have a fail safe trigger that sets the signals to flash if opposing greens occur.

That info came from traffic signal engineers.

[StuGotz]

Can't happen Mike, suggest you may have missed your light change.

 

Bob's right, traffic sigs are designed to default to flashing red all direct's.

 

You say you stopped at a Green light...did you mean Red?

 

 

MB>

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

I saw one do that once....a brief moment before going flashing red in all four directions. Went over to the city offices to tell the engineers while radio called for repair. "Not possible" was the response from the engineer. I wrote the event up on a memo and made sure it went into the archives.

 

I know the system is designed to have multiple layers of safety but, relays and timing circuits can fail.

[Mister Tee]

I suppose it is possible to get opposing greens but I was always taught traffic signals have a fail safe trigger that sets the signals to flash if opposing greens occur.

That info came from traffic signal engineers.

 

In theory yes but signal light controllers are not hard wired for logic anymore.

[Mike]

Can't happen Mike, suggest you may have missed your light change.

 

Bob's right, traffic sigs are designed to default to flashing red all direct's.

MB>

 

Might've been mass hallucination . . . my wife saw it, too. ???

 

I'm not sure what you mean by I might have missed my light change. To clarify, I was in the far right lane, with two vehicles to my left pointed in the same direction of travel. We started moving (pretty much simultaneously) when we got our green/green left arrows. The motorcyclist started at the same time, prompting my "WTF?" reaction. In looking in his direction (he was now to my left), he had a green left turn arrow.

 

Honestly, I'm fairly sure that this occurred as I perceived it, since my wife immediately noted that she'd seen the same thing.

 

You should know you can never trust engineers.

[upflying]

Mike, I am sure you are right. Now that I think of it, both drivers always tell me they had a green light when they collide at right angles at a signal controlled intersection.

[Mike]

Mike, I am sure you are right. Now that I think of it, both drivers always tell me they had a green light when they collide at right angles at a signal controlled intersection.

 

 

I'm sure it was green . . . er, red . . . er . . .

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

You should know you can never trust engineers.

 

I resemble that statement.

 

Some years ago I saw a YouTube video (can't find it anymore) in which a guy explained in full detail the workings of an old-school traffic light control box. Pretty cool: the box was filled with cams, levers, relays, contacts, motors, timers, and so on, like a grandfather clock movement with a thousand adjustments. It was of course all arranged so that configuring it to produce a dangerous light-state was impossible. But of course that assumes everything is working as designed, that there aren't any broken parts or loose wires dangling where they ought not.

 

Likewise, modern solid-state controllers have their software written to exclude dangerous light-states - but the hardware that bears the software can of course fail in unexpected ways, e.g. maybe a particular solid-state relay fries itself permanently on, keeping a green light on even after the controller has commanded it to turn off.

 

I'll wager an all-directions-green condition is designed to be extremely unlikely - but it's impossible to make it impossible.

[mrzoom]

Mike. I know the corner and there is a Body Shop right there. I wonder.

[George S.]

It is extremely unlikely but it is possible. In my LEO career I responded to probably a couple hundred signal malfunction calls, and my last 5 years I was responsible to oversee the signals, not repairing them but making sure they worked and were repaired when needed. I think I saw an all green malfunction twice. It was with the older clockwork type signals that Mitch speaks of in above post. That type of signal relies on pins that are inserted in a rotating dial just like the plug-in lamp timers you may have for when you go on vacation. Where you insert the pins dictates the length of the cycle. These pins and the pointy nib that reads them do wear out, they can be dislodged, and they can be inserted in the wrong spot, etc. It's very low-tech, and sometimes it would get hung up on a pin and the lights would not change, I would then have to perform the "Manual Reset Procedure" which consisted of giving the box a good kick. And in the NJ winters we would place a 100 watt light bulb in the box to keep the mechanism from freezing, or it would come to a stop.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Mild hijack. I had an intersection crash where there were no witnesses. Upper middle class area. White driver and an asian driver. Both were adamant that their light was green. White guy even added, "look, who's going to run a red light....me or the Asian guy?" Finished taking statements and measurements and both cars were on the hook almost ready to go. A witness to the crash drove up, apologized because the had to make an appointment that they were late for. She said that it was blatantly clear that the white guy ran the red light. She even looked at his light when he ran it. White guy didn't say anything I could add a false info charge to but didn't disagree vehemently that his light was red. He got the ticket and the asian guy got vindicated.

Wouldn't have happened like that otherwise.

[Mike]

Reported yesterday: apparently it's an epidemic. Or maybe the cop has the same finely tuned observation skills I have.

 

This is what was reported:

 

"July 23 – At  at 6:06 p.m., two drivers collided at Presidential Way and Atlantic Avenue – and both had a green light.  An Andover woman was turning left from Atlantic Avenue onto Presidential Way when a Woburn man heading straight on Atlantic Avenue hit her vehicle.  The officer who responded observed that drivers in “both directions do have green lights at the same time.” Both vehicles were towed. Both operators and a passenger in one car refused medical treatment. Neither driver was cited."

 

Also. I just noted that I incorrectly used the term "opposing" in my post title. It should have said "intersecting."

[4wheeldog]

That is the ultimate vindication of your observation. Glad no one was hurt. I believe the City is likely liable for the damages.

[Mike]

That is the ultimate vindication of your observation.

 

Not really. It was a different location. But, I'll take whatever I can get.

[MotorinLA]

Reported yesterday: apparently it's an epidemic. Or maybe the cop has the same finely tuned observation skills I have.

 

This is what was reported:

 

"July 23 – At  at 6:06 p.m., two drivers collided at Presidential Way and Atlantic Avenue – and both had a green light.  An Andover woman was turning left from Atlantic Avenue onto Presidential Way when a Woburn man heading straight on Atlantic Avenue hit her vehicle.  The officer who responded observed that drivers in “both directions do have green lights at the same time.” Both vehicles were towed. Both operators and a passenger in one car refused medical treatment. Neither driver was cited."

 

WHAT??? Must not have been a motor officer. Clearly both drivers should have been cited. CVC 21451(a) states:

A driver facing a circular green signal shall proceed straight through or turn right or left or make a U-turn unless a sign prohibits a U-turn. Any driver, including one turning, shall yield the right-of-way to other traffic and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk.

 

Clearly both drivers failed to yield to "other traffic legally within the intersection", as they were both there legally, since both direction had a green light. The officer missed a great opportunity for a two-fer...