Font tire wearing faster than rear tire

[Pat Hillyard]

I have an '08 RT with Michelin Pilots that have about 7,000 miles on them. I regularly check my tire pressure and keep them at 38psi front and 40psi rear. There are only 3/32nds of an inch on the front and 5/32nds of an inch on the back tire. What would cause this front tire to wear faster than the rear? A friend of mine thinks it's due to too much forward weight. I'm 6'1, 220 pounds and I had 1 inch risers for the first three years. Last year I changed the rises to 1 inch up and back. Could this really cause the faster front tire wear?

[NCStephen]

I think it just varies between rider and tire. For ME and NOT same bike as yours, but Metz Z6 rear would wear out (11k) pretty well before the front (13k). Michelin PR2s would wear out 10k rear, 11k frt. Dunlop Road Smarts 9K rear 7.5K frt. Q2s 6K rear, 6.5 K frt. It is your roads, your weight, how you steer, brake, routes you take, pace you ride at. I think I would ride with an eye towards bike handling and safety and appropriate PSI for that and not trying to stretch mileage out another 1000 - 2000 miles.

 

 

I kept hearing a birdie calling out and finally remembered. I went and looked at the Michelin site but couldn't find the specs. On the Dunlop site, the Roadsmart IIs have these tread depth specs.. rear 9/32s and front 6/32s So perhaps your wear pattern isn't what you thought but perhaps pretty well balanced.

 

 

NCS

[Albert]

I don't think the front and rear start with the same tread depth when they're new (although I'd have to check). This could be a typical and quite reasonable difference. In any case I doubt very much if your personal weight distribution is causing the difference.

[dirtrider]

Afternoon Pat

 

If the front tire is wearing evenly then it is what it is. If the center is wearing more than the just-off-center on each side then you are probably running too much air pressure. That 38 psi is way more than I run in my hexhead front tire.

 

The usual cause of early (even) front tire wear is heavy braking but at over 7k miles & 3/32" left you really don't have a big issue.

 

[tallman]

No.

Without any risers the RT is a sit up and beg position,

adding risers would make it even more so.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I have an '08 RT with Michelin Pilots that have about 7,000 miles on them. I regularly check my tire pressure and keep them at 38psi front and 40psi rear. There are only 3/32nds of an inch on the front and 5/32nds of an inch on the back tire. What would cause this front tire to wear faster than the rear? A friend of mine thinks it's due to too much forward weight. I'm 6'1, 220 pounds and I had 1 inch risers for the first three years. Last year I changed the rises to 1 inch up and back. Could this really cause the faster front tire wear?

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you're pretty gentle on the throttle when you accelerate? Very little WOT action? That might account for a lower wear rate on the rear tire than I typically see. My latest set of tires is Pilot Roads (PR2's, I think), and the rear could probably get to 5000, but the front still has a lot of tread on it. I use the engine a lot.

 

 

[NCStephen]

Using the Dunlop numbers as a standard due to lack of ones from Michelin.

 

Rear is wearing at rate of 1750 miles per 1/32 of tread. Projected wear out milage when 2/32 are left, is another just over 5000 miles.

 

For the front the wear rate is at 2334 miles per 1/32.

Projected wear out milage when 2/32 are left for front is about 4700 miles.

 

So looks like they are wearing out pretty even and good tire wear with replacement being around 12,000 miles when TWI should just be starting to show.

 

No worries on your part. Keep on riding!

 

NCS

[CoarsegoldKid]

What would cause this front tire to wear faster than the rear?

Riding it. Sliding it. Pushing the front end. Trail braking-ABS front end bias. I don't see any issue with 38 psi in front. High performance PR tires are disposable. Actually almost anything that fits that bike- After 7K miles throw'em out. They're done even if there is depth all around.

[dirtrider]

---- Trail braking-ABS front end bias.

 

Evening Joe

 

What is this front end bias you speak of?

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

BMW ABS in this case is a "linked braking system" not necessarily the anti-lock function which has nothing to do with weight transfer. As you know when you apply the foot brake the rear brake only is applied on R1200RT and other models starting in 2005. Little if any weight is transferred toward the front. When you apply the hand brake both brakes are applied and more weight is transferred toward the front front end. I see this as the front brake getting more pressure than the rear. If hand braking in the middle of the corner this will tend to wear the front tires more so in my experience. Coasting or better correctly applying slight throttle through the corner will minimize the wear. This is not to be construed that trail braking is wrong for everyone in all cases. But it is risky.

[dirtrider]

Evening Joe

 

Still makes no sense to me.

 

If the rear brake doesn't apply the front brake then rear brake trail braking uses no front brake at all.

 

Few use front lever trail braking on the street & even if done by the select few the BMW 1200RT brings on some rear brake with the front so there is actually less front brake needed than on a conventional non-linked system due to rear assist.

 

[Nice n Easy Rider]

BMW ABS in this case is a "linked braking system" not necessarily the anti-lock function which has nothing to do with weight transfer. As you know when you apply the foot brake the rear brake only is applied on R1200RT and other models starting in 2005. Little if any weight is transferred toward the front. When you apply the hand brake both brakes are applied and more weight is transferred toward the front front end. I see this as the front brake getting more pressure than the rear. If hand braking in the middle of the corner this will tend to wear the front tires more so in my experience. Coasting or better correctly applying slight throttle through the corner will minimize the wear. This is not to be construed that trail braking is wrong for everyone in all cases. But it is risky.

 

You mean we're actually supposed to use the brakes? I thought they were there for show to keep the DMV folks happy.

[Don_Eilenberger]

Just a data point or two:

 

On my R12R:

 

Continental Road Attacks - got about 6-7,000 miles front and rear. At that point they were uncomfortable handling and noisy so they got replaced. Tried them several times. Have not tried Road-Attack 2's. Any comments would be welcome..

 

Pilot-Road 2 - I would regularly get 10-11,000 miles from the front and rear. Both were ready to replace at about equal mileage. I replaced them when the ridges between the hard/soft parts of the compounds started causing handling quirks, and the front became unbearably noisy.

 

Pilot-Road 3 - I replaced the front today. Old one had about 5-6,000 miles on it. Left (port) side tread was much more worn then right side. There were transition ridges with cupping evident from the hard to soft rubber, and the front was screaming at me in any sort of turn. Rear tire still looks fine, and looks like it will get my usual 11,000 miles from it (very little squaring off, good tread depth - more then 1/2 left.) I'm not an extreme hard braker - but I do haul it down fairly quickly. I'm known in our local club as someone to stay back a bit from since I use engine braking to do a lot of slowing down (setting up for corners..)

 

IMHO - Michelin has done something with the PR-3 front tire, and I'm not sure I like it. Next set may be a mix of PR-2 front and PR-3 rear. The new one made the bike feel wonderful again, but I'd rather not have to buy 2x fronts for each rear.

[CoarsegoldKid]

 

Few use front lever trail braking on the street & even if done by the select few the BMW 1200RT brings on some rear brake with the front so there is actually less front brake needed than on a conventional non-linked system due to rear assist.

Not sure that is true. My opinion is these bikes can be stopped very quickly with only the hand brake alone. You can lay into the foot brake all you want when using the hand and the weight still shifts forward just by the fact that at least 80% of the braking is done by the front brake.

Trail braking isn't rear braking. Trail braking is the steepened trail of the geometry when leaning with the brakes on. That steep trail turns in quicker but there are traction issues as one might expect. ABS and our non-conventional chassis making for lessened trail change on BMWs is likely a savior and assists us with needed traction at this point. Our linked ABS BMW's hand brake provides some measure of chassis balance by linking the rear brake and still puts increased pressure on the front tire to make it howl and it will scrub a little extra rubber off unless of course it breaks traction and ends in tears. Doing this turn after turn will shorten the life of that front tire. One can also shorten the life of the front by just braking very hard straight up prior to turn in with lower air pressure.

Then again maybe I just abuse tires differently than everyone else.

[Tool Man]

 

Then again maybe I just abuse tires differently than everyone else.

 

Not true, I'm right there behind ya.... see, made you look.

 

I agree with your explanation of front scrubbing = premature wear and good description. Once the technique is learned, tire wear will either even out or you'll be going through two for every one front. But that also depends on the type of roads you most commonly traverse. In my case, 99% of my riding is in the mountains and I ride at a safe pace for my ability.

 

I've slowed down since I quit racing and got older. I don't care about mileage from my rubber. I want rubber that's connecting me to the road with confidence. Properly tuned suspension and top quality rubber can make or break a good day in the saddle.

 

I've never gotten more than 3k from a rear or 5k from a front.Even less when I was riding sport bikes. But that's my riding style, tire choice (sticky) and my road preference. If I road the super slab commuting every day I'd probably be shopping for high mileage tires. But I don't and I choose what I feel gives me the confidence in my riding. Yea, they are a bit more pricey but you can't put a price on a tire that could possibly save your butt or one that won't stick when it's called upon.

 

It does take a while to get use to BMW's frame geometry, suspension geometry but it's not bad.Once the crappy suspension is tossed and some good rubber planted, they can handle pretty well.

 

Don't get me started on ABS or linked breaking systems. I hate them both.

[Costa]

 

by,Tool Man

 

(I've slowed down since I quit racing and got older. I don't care about mileage from my rubber. I want rubber that's connecting me to the road with confidence. Properly tuned suspension and top quality rubber can make or break a good day in the saddle.

 

I've never gotten more than 3k from a rear or 5k from a front.Even less when I was riding sport bikes. But that's my riding style, tire choice (sticky) and my road preference. If I road the super slab commuting every day I'd probably be shopping for high mileage tires. But I don't and I choose what I feel gives me the confidence in my riding. Yea, they are a bit more pricey but you can't put a price on a tire that could possibly save your butt or one that won't stick when it's called upon.

 

It does take a while to get use to BMW's frame geometry, suspension geometry but it's not bad.Once the crappy suspension is tossed and some good rubber planted, they can handle pretty well.

 

Don't get me started on ABS or linked breaking systems. I hate them both.)

 

You are so right and is so true about top quality tires,that's how I feel and do my self.I like to save money too but I will not do it on tires that is the first thing that touch the ground.

[Hall Vince]

Just a data point or two:

 

On my R12R:

 

Continental Road Attacks - got about 6-7,000 miles front and rear. At that point they were uncomfortable handling and noisy so they got replaced. Tried them several times. Have not tried Road-Attack 2's. Any comments would be welcome..

 

Pilot-Road 2 - I would regularly get 10-11,000 miles from the front and rear. Both were ready to replace at about equal mileage. I replaced them when the ridges between the hard/soft parts of the compounds started causing handling quirks, and the front became unbearably noisy.

 

Pilot-Road 3 - I replaced the front today. Old one had about 5-6,000 miles on it. Left (port) side tread was much more worn then right side. There were transition ridges with cupping evident from the hard to soft rubber, and the front was screaming at me in any sort of turn. Rear tire still looks fine, and looks like it will get my usual 11,000 miles from it (very little squaring off, good tread depth - more then 1/2 left.) I'm not an extreme hard braker - but I do haul it down fairly quickly. I'm known in our local club as someone to stay back a bit from since I use engine braking to do a lot of slowing down (setting up for corners..)

 

IMHO - Michelin has done something with the PR-3 front tire, and I'm not sure I like it. Next set may be a mix of PR-2 front and PR-3 rear. The new one made the bike feel wonderful again, but I'd rather not have to buy 2x fronts for each rear.

 

Now this is similar tyo my finding, tho I only got 5000 miles from the front PR3, and on the only set of Conti Road attacks I got 5000 from the rear and 7k (still going) from the front.

I'm currently running a Z8 rear, will fit the front Z8 when the conti is toast (not long now)

\v/

[Guest Kakugo]

I am the undisputed master of fast tyre wear... some of my exploits are legendary.

 

However... the cause for your fast front tyre wear is very simple: your pressures are wrong. Your front runs too high and your rear runs too low. On our R1200RT both PR2 and PR2 should always be 36 psi (2.5 bar) front and 42 psi (2.9 bar). I had the occasion to speak at length with a Michelin field rep who filled me in with more details about their tyres than I could hope for.

Ever since I have run Michelin tyres exactly at the pressure they recommend for the bike. Result? My tyres last longer than I could have ever imagined. 10000km on every set of PR2 and an astonishing 13000km on my first set of PR3.

 

I rest my case.

[Pat Hillyard]

Thanks guys for your points of view. I have frequently had mileages of 10,000 for the rear and 20,000 for the front from all my years of riding H-D Ultras with Dunlops. With the H-D I don't have linked brakes and I think I get 70% front and 30% rear braking proportions. It looks like I am getting much less with the Beemer.

I also noticed that both tires are cupping oretty bad. I don't know what is causing this. I live in southwestern Pennsylvania and many of the roads have moderate to severe crowning of the roadway. This bike has been around though. It's been through Upstate New York, Virginia, West Virginia, along with many miles out west. Many of the roads that I travelled didn't have crowning. Could the crowning be related to the Michelins having two different compounds?

I know I need new tires. Will I get better mileage with the PR3's than I got with the PR2's. A friend of mine suggested that I try a set of Avons. I haven't seen any posts on this board comparing wear differences between Michelin, Avon, Metzler, etc. Any help will be appreciated.

[w2ge]

FAct is.. generally R1200RT are known for wearing front tires quicker than the rear. Re: Pressure, 36 Ft and 40 or so rear seems to be what I hear EVERYONE use... (and I) When the tire starts to really wear, cupping is often noticed.. if premature.. I'd suspect, balance or rim bent issues, etc..

 

And mileage also depends on road surface type... Some areas have gravel smashed into hot tar and they eat up tires.. I think I ride my bike HARD.. (No chicken strips on my tires) and Iget decent mileage.. I just switched to PR3's and I LOVE the way they handle.. bit we'll see regarding mileage.. I've heard a good combo is PR2 front (as some say it lasts longer) with PR3 in the rear...

 

Your comment about HD braking is contradictory.. If they're NOT linked why do you say you get 70/30? Either way..comparing a HD cruiser to a sport-tourer is apples to oranges...

[dirtrider]

Fact is.. generally R1200RT are known for wearing front tires quicker than the rear. -----

 

 

Afternoon Phil

 

Where did you get that info?-- This is somethingI haven't heard on the 1200RT before-- I know of no-one in my riding group or group of riding friends that wear their 1200RT front tire out before the rear tire. Even Mitch posted above about his rear tire wearing out before the front.

 

A few I know that ride 2 up most of the time get pretty even front/rear wear but they ride easy, mostly straight up, & have little rear tire slippage due to the added weight on the rear tire.

 

Anybody else (street usage, riding one up) wear their front out before the rear on their BMW 1200RT?

 

 

 

[w2ge]

DR, I know I've read that in a posts but can't remember exactly where.. maybe I'm mistaken? I know on my bike I wore my front more than my rear on my last set of Z6's... I'm pretty hard on the acceleration, too... at times. (Depends on who I'm riding with.. Cruisers: NO, Sport bike guys: YES!)

[Albert]

Thanks guys for your points of view. I have frequently had mileages of 10,000 for the rear and 20,000 for the front from all my years of riding H-D Ultras with Dunlops. With the H-D I don't have linked brakes and I think I get 70% front and 30% rear braking proportions. It looks like I am getting much less with the Beemer.

I also noticed that both tires are cupping oretty bad. I don't know what is causing this. I live in southwestern Pennsylvania and many of the roads have moderate to severe crowning of the roadway. This bike has been around though. It's been through Upstate New York, Virginia, West Virginia, along with many miles out west. Many of the roads that I travelled didn't have crowning. Could the crowning be related to the Michelins having two different compounds?

I know I need new tires. Will I get better mileage with the PR3's than I got with the PR2's. A friend of mine suggested that I try a set of Avons. I haven't seen any posts on this board comparing wear differences between Michelin, Avon, Metzler, etc. Any help will be appreciated.

 

Pat, I'm in SW PA too so we travel many of the same kinds of roads. I'm on perhaps my 6th or 8th set of tires on the RT. I've used PR 2 and PR3 the last 3 tire changes. I'm getting the best mileage ever from them. The last PR3's (just replaced) I got around 9k miles. I'm usually harder on the rear tire than the front (slightly) although I've had to "train" myself to use the rear brake with the linked system. I pretty much change front and rear together now even if there's something left, just for peace of mind. On my HD dresser I would usually get 6 to 8K on a rear and 15 to 18k on a front (for comparison).