I think my transmission grenaded last night

[SHOman]

Have an 04 1150rt and it seems my transmission went blammo after going over railroad tracks while I had the clutch pulled in.

 

Makes some interesting screeches now if you rev it in neutral, clicking noises if you push the bike in gear. Completely undriveable. In talking to my mechanic he's thinking it's the transmission and recommended I start looking for one now. Should have it pulled apart later this week to confirm.

 

My garage door spring broke the night before, nice start to the week for sure.

 

Besides a used one from Beemerboneyard what other options are out there? Any places that do a good rebuild? Hopefully close to the Sacramento area. Any other sources besides Ebay or Beemer boneyard? Pickings for a used transmission seem pretty slim at the moment.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon SHOman

 

Transmission??? --Possibly but also many other possibilities like splines stripped, or clutch, or engine related, or ????????

 

First off,, did you hit anything under the bike while going over the RR tracks. Like exhaust system or bottom the bike out hard?

 

Maybe the alternator wasn't tight enough so it dropped down loosening the belt, or who knows.

 

Start by laying down & looking under the bike for damage.

 

How does it sound with the trans in gear & the clutch pulled in?

 

[SHOman]

It wasn't much of bump, much less than I anticipated. Nothing got hit hard, no damage underneath, engine runs fine. Got a recent 48k job done, mechanic had a new fangled Harmon Harmonizer that seemed to work really great, throttle bodies seemed exceptionally balanced.

 

Forgot to mention. Prior to this event, was dealing with trying to figure out the source of a knocking sound that seemed to originate from the front of the bike, evident only when the bike was running under certain loads/situations (ex very loud going uphill or straight, not very loud at all going downhill).

 

My initial guess was splines too. I of course defer to those with greater knowledge than me.

 

I'll try the trans in gear/clutch pulled in tonight. That should be interesting. It will go into gear but it's like the transmission is disconnected. Release the clutch and try to go, weird noises no forward movement at all. With the engine off you can push it while in gear and you get clicking noises.

 

At least my garage door is fixed now. Bike is next.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

SHOman

Not too far from me, don't know much about splines though but,

I believe there are some posts that address looking into one, or more, of the holes to take a gander at part of the spline shaft. If so, you might be able to confirm or deny a gross failure mode.

[Mark K]

Sure sounds like stripped splines from here. That stinks...

[David R]

First guess, clutch and input shaft splines.

 

Next guess is driveshaft splines. You can remove the starter to see the clutch.

 

Best of luck.

[Bmandiego]

I'd like to know what it does on the centerstand when you try to move it through a couple of gears at idle.

Also, with the bike on cs, in first or second gear, engine off, what does it sound like if you spin or try to spin the rear tire?

It sounds like your clutch went boom or something fell apart in there.

[Jim Moore]

Any places that do a good rebuild? Hopefully close to the Sacramento area.

 

Tome Cutter at the Rubber Chicken Racing Garage does rebuilds. There's guy on the West Coast (Ted Proter?) who does them also.

[dirtrider]

Morning SHOman

 

 

With no damage going over the RR tracks it is sounding a bit more like stripped splines.

 

Sometimes you can define stripped splines by putting the trans in 2nd gear then pushing the bike forward. If it will move while in 2nd gear with clutch engaged that means there is no solid connection between the trans & engine. Now with trans still in 2nd gear pull the clutch lever in & move the bike back & forth about 6"or so (move it a few times with the clutch lever pulled in). Now release the clutch lever & see if you can move it in 2nd gear. If not or you now get a heavy ratcheting sound more than likely your splines are gone.

 

That "move the bike back & forth about 6"or so with the clutch lever pulled in" can sometimes allow the clutch disk to drop down a bit & re-engage the input shaft enough to show your issue.

 

[4wheeldog]

The blammo over the tracks and the screaming and clicking could also be a driveshaft failure. The tracks being the ultimate cause of the failure points slightly more towards that than the splines, on my logic meter. Good luck!

[Mark K]

Let's hope it's "only" the driveshaft, as that would be the milder of the two.

 

When my driveshaft failed, it was much further up the noise scale than a clicking, however. It was a banging! Terrible, terrible noise!!

[SHOman]

"I'd like to know what it does on the centerstand when you try to move it through a couple of gears at idle. "

 

Couldnt do it screeching noises as soon as I pulled the clutch in.

 

"Also, with the bike on cs, in first or second gear, engine off, what does it sound like if you spin or try to spin the rear tire?"

 

Clicking, ratcheting type noise. Seems to originate near the starter, it's easy to hear and isolate.

 

[SHOman]

"Sometimes you can define stripped splines by putting the trans in 2nd gear then pushing the bike forward. If it will move while in 2nd gear with clutch engaged that means there is no solid connection between the trans & engine."

 

That's me, easy to push in any gear.

 

"If not or you now get a heavy ratcheting sound more than likely your splines are gone. "

 

That's a pretty good description of what I hear and it sounds like it's coming from near the starter.

 

I'm leaning towards splines too.

 

I know there's clutch splines and driveshaft, just not sure which one, maybe both.

 

My mechanic/friend is booked up for at least a week, and this is probably beyond my capabilities to fix so it won't get pulled apart until next week.

 

I think this is gonna cost me a bit to fix.

 

Thank you all for the info, it is appreciated, ill post back once I find out more.

 

Looks like i just might be able to justify a 2nd m/c as backup .

 

[OoPEZoO]

Yup.....your splines just stripped out. Ouch, expensive fix. That is what "did in" my RT. With 126k miles on it, it didn't make financial sense to rebuild it and put it back on the road.

 

With your low mileage, I think its probably worth it if you can find a good used transmission. That will be your cheapest option. The other is rebuilding your current transmission, but there is no guarentee that it won't happen again in another 48k miles.

 

 

[dirtrider]

Morning Keith

 

I tend to agree with you in that (if it is the splines) & only the input shaft & clutch disk gets changed the problem will be back in about the same mileage as the first failure.

 

[AndyS]

Or at the very least, get the gearbox rebuilt but have a new housing fitted to the front of it.

[SHOman]

"I tend to agree with you in that (if it is the splines) & only the input shaft & clutch disk gets changed the problem will be back in about the same mileage as the first failure."

 

Is that because there's some sort of misalignment? At least that's the impression I get from reading the multitude of results in google.

 

Can you clarify specifically what I need to have aligned so I can make sure it gets done?

 

I'll google some more later tonight and see what comes up.

 

Thanks!

[4wheeldog]

Is that because there's some sort of misalignment? At least that's the impression I get from reading the multitude of results in google.

 

Can you clarify specifically what I need to have aligned so I can make sure it gets done?

 

I'll google some more later tonight and see what comes up.

 

Thanks!

 

Talk to this guy......He has identified what parts need to be replaced to get proper alignment.

http://www.largiader.com/

He could also rebuild your trannie, though shipping might be problematic.

[AndyS]

"Is that because there's some sort of misalignment? At least that's the impression I get from reading the multitude of results in google.

 

Can you clarify specifically what I need to have aligned so I can make sure it gets done?

 

I'll google some more later tonight and see what comes up.

 

Thanks!

 

Yes, but most common on 2002 models.

 

 

To get it aligned is a long and drawn out process requiring good access to the rear of the engine with an accurate Dial Gauge Indicator. The measurements of the crankshaft wrt the gearbox locating dowels are noted, then transferrred to the gearbox itself. Where misalighnment is noted, eccentric dowels are fitted to replace the ones already fitted. This takes time patience good engineering skills and access to the right tools.

A replacement (new) bell housing is an easier fix.

 

 

[outpost22]

Sure don't hear about many '04's with that issue.

 

That sucks.

[Cycledude]

Sure don't hear about many '04's with that issue.

Right.. I have an 04 myself. When was your build date? Should be listed by the vin on the frame.

 

Snowy.

[SHOman]

Got a chance to disassemble everything. I am hoping this was the clunking knocking sound I experienced prior to failure.

 

Here it is...

 

 

Currently looking for a used transmission for sale.

[David R]

Thank you for the update.

 

Could you please describe the clinking knocking sound in great detail?

 

I may have the same thing.

 

David

[outpost22]

Rat's. Those pictures are ugly.

[SHOman]

10/03

[SHOman]

I'll do my best.

 

Background...

 

This bike was not broken in correctly (IMO) and will leak oil into the cylinder if you leave it on the sidestand for an extended period of time. Bike had intermittent pinging issues going on for awhile, which was finally fixed by getting a techlusion.

 

Recently...

As I was approaching 48k, started noticing a knocking noise that was very loud, it was hard to tell where it was coming from, would only happen when the bike was in gear and moving. My initial guess was that it came from the front of the engine as I could hear it more clearly when I put my head by the bars. And it would get louder with certain loads on the bike. Had my 48k service done and no change.

 

The rhythm of the noise would increase/decrease with RPM. Almost like loud knocking valvetrain kind of noise (metal thumping together kind of knock/clunk). Didn't seem to effect performance any. Started looking at possible causes, looked at throttle bodies, rocker arm end play gap, didn't see any issues there.

 

The noise is always there. Just depended on the situation whether it was really loud or not.

 

I typically take long rides in the foothills around here. So the following refers to that type of riding.

 

Happens at either constant RPM or accelerating/decelerating. More noticeable during the latter.

Ex straight road no incline - Usually loud sometimes not so loud.

Uphill- Very loud all the time.

Downhill - Usually very quiet, hard to hear.

 

I'm hoping that in my case this was the splines trying to tell me of impending failure. If that noise is not gone once I replace that transmission, I will not be very happy.

 

[Jim Moore]

Thank you for the update.

 

Could you please describe the clinking knocking sound in great detail?

 

I may have the same thing.

 

David

 

It's easy to check. Remove your starter. Pull in the clutch and tie it off. Look in the starter hole and use a thin screwdriver to rotate your clutch plate. See if your clutch moves without the transmission shaft moving.

[David R]

I will be checking mine. I will just leave the bike in top gear and turn the rear wheel back and forth with the starter out. Slop in the splines will show.

 

I had the transmission out and all apart at 107,000 miles. Now 135,000 and a fresh rebuild on the motor. The splines looked like new then. Probably not it.

 

I will start another thread looking for the the noise. Meanwhile I been riding the bike like I stole it with no other problems. It runs sweet!

 

Thank you for the clear description. Not what mine does.

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Boffin]

I will be checking mine. I will just leave the bike in top gear and turn the rear wheel back and forth with the starter out. Slop in the splines will show.

 

I had the transmission out and all apart at 107,000 miles. Now 135,000 and a fresh rebuild on the motor. The splines looked like new then. Probably not it.

 

I will start another thread looking for the the noise. Meanwhile I been riding the bike like I stole it with no other problems. It runs sweet!

 

Thank you for the clear description. Not what mine does.

 

David

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be aware that there is a lot of intentional slop in the gearbox - to allow the dogs to engage easilly. About 2-inches of rotation at the rear wheel is normal - I doubt that you will detect any additional slop from the splines in that amount of play.

 

Andy