Rodney King - RIP

[4wheeldog]

Well, in my case, court was not an option. I received a boot several times to the kidney, while laying face down in the dirt, for not producing a DL, when I was 2 years shy of being able to attain one. I had done exactly as I had been ordered, and a minute after the kicks were administered, the poor excuses for men discovered they had the wrong suspects in custody, and disappeared without even telling us we could get up. So, the damage was done, there was no repairing it in court.

Ultimate power needs to be used with a lot better judgement. I am sure the cop was just frustrated, since I looked older than I was, and he had decided I was guilty, and lying to him.

 

All that said, I still think that the cops in the RK case got a raw deal......The original jury saw evidence we never saw, and they were screwed when the Feds tried them in the court of public opinion, based on an edited video.

[TyTass]

Are LEO's all "bad" - no - but I have yet to develop a system to identify which is which. Unique perspectives? Yeah - they have that all right. To me, they appear accountable to no one; certainly not the general public who they are supposed to serve.

I have a tainted view of LEO's and here's why.

 

I had a brother that was killed during a drug raid five years after coming home from Vietnam - they broke down the door of his house at 0300 with no warning and no announcement that they were police officers. Guess what - they were at the wrong house! Isn't it surprising what the letters E and W mean on a street address?

He did what any man would do and armed himself for a confrontation. When he saw who it was that had invaded his home, he lowered his revolver, but it was too late.

His wife and children were home at the time and watched him bleed to death from a shotgun wound that blew a 3 inch hole threw his chest. They were devastated and have never, nor will ever be the same. Both sides of our families still deal with that.

Oh yeah - Not one received more that what I consider a hand slap.

You can bet I scrutinize them if I have to be around one.

 

Please excuse me for the skepticism but I do not, nor will I ever trust any of them. PERIOD.

 

That sucks.

 

I bet that EVERY cop you have interacted with can sense that big assed chip on your shoulder and it taints the conversation

 

Once bitten, twice shy. My incident was certainly not as agregious, but was not a mistake, either. Failure to trust someone you don't know to do the right thing when they have ultimate power, with little or no oversight, is not unreasonable......Especially when you know how it can turn out.

Very curious here ...

 

When you guys say you won't trust another one of "them" [LEOs] anymore, specifically what do you mean by that? You won't trust them to do what? To never err? To never let emotion guide their thinking as you clearly are doing here?

 

Furthermore, in what way are you not going to trust them? Do you plan to not recognize their authority to arrest/detain you with if they have 'what they believe/understand' is probable cause to do so? Or do you recognize their authority but simply hope to preempt the whole court thingy and argue your case right there, right then. Or do you expecting them to take a look at you know "you weren't the one" (via some manner of profiling). Or are you planning to just shoot it out with "them" the next time? I'm completely at a loss as to what you could possibly mean.

 

It is a horrible shame that mistakes get made. It is a horrible shame that abuses do occur (still). However, there is a system for taking up greivences and that's what this entire Rodney King case was about. Whether you want to believe it or not, there have been numerous changes to laws, regulations, and policies in states and municipalities across the nation since then in to curb such abuses. LEO's that I know, have explained how those rules often end up with unfortunate consequences so as to be detriment not just themselves but the public also. These are tough issues.

 

Lest my post become a love-fest for LEOs, I openly admit that I too share concern over the amount of power that "we the people" place in the hands of LEOs. It's a subject that should be continuously debated, to become educated about (lest we end up giving an LEO an excuse to do us harm due to our stupidity), to be able to really hear both sides, to speak of in ration (unemaotional) terms, and for us to inform our various lawmakers of our "informed" opinions.

 

It is clearly not something we should merely spew hate about. That never helps. If you lament that nothing has changed and nothing is going to change, take a look in the mirror and blame that guy.

[4wheeldog]

For me, lack of trust means a lack of confidence that the right thing will be done. I don't expect perfection, but there is a lot of self serving BS involved with the whole "Us vs Them" thing that cops use as a way to divide themselves from society. "Good" cops will take the side of a "Bad" cop against an innocent civilian more often than not.

 

Before my little incident (Little to the cop, not to me), I actually thought cops were supposed to be helpful, and I actually believed I had no reason to fear or mistrust them. Since then, I am very wary in any contact with law enforcement, up to the point that I would have to think about calling them if I was a victim of a crime. I think about every sentence I say before I open my mouth in front of any LEO that I do not know personally. I educated my kids to keep their mouths shut, because no one is assumed innocent in a cop's eyes.

 

No, I have had little trouble with police personally, because I have lived an impeccable life. Nothing worse than a speeding ticket. That is no different than if I had never had dealing with that particular asshole.

 

I did have one more contact with that cop. About 6 years later, I was working for another cop that owned a moving company. We moved the asshole when he retired. I recognized him immediately. He asked me if he knew me from somewhere. I waited until we were done moving his belongings before I told him how we had met. He didn't say a word. My boss had a conversation with him, out of my hearing. My boss said he told him he had made a lot of enemies with his actions toward guys like me. My boss told me the asshole didn't have anything to say to him, either.

 

By the way, for some perspective, I am now 60. So, this happened 46 years ago. Time does not heal all wounds. Some lessons stay fresh for a lifetime.

[Shiny Side Up]

TyTass,

I'm going to answer your questions and hopefully you and others will finally understand what I mean. Am I emotional? Yes, thankfully! There was a time when I was comnpletely numbed out to violence and it had absolutely no affect on me in any way.

 

First - I hope that no one is under the presumption that LEOs are their friend or will help them. The truth of that mistake is that LEOs have no obligation to protect or assist the individual citizen. Their mission is for the "good of society as a whole". The Supreme Court has ruled that and you can read about it here - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html

 

That said, when I say I don't trust one of them; specifically what I mean is this - I don't trust one of them.

Hope that clears that up.

 

I do recognize their authority over me, the private citizen.

 

I do not expect them to recognize that I present no threat to them because of my dress, race, age, military status, sexual orientation, etc. any more than I recognize that they present absolutely no threat to me simply because they wear a badge.

 

No - I do not plan to "shoot it out" with anyone.

 

I agree that it is a horrible shame that mistakes are made and that they are still made. Mistakes made during confrontations, such as the one that occurred with my brother, believe it or not, I do understand. What I don't get at all is the lack of planning and dissimilation of vital information such as a street designation (E or W) when an enforcement agency is fully aware they are about to enter a very dangerous situation. That is inept and a complete failure of the agency. It lends no credibility to their image or reputation. If they can't get something as trivial as that right - then what can they do with some drgree of competence?

 

I did not "spew hate" and I do not hate police officers.

 

I've looked in the mirror and I'm fine with what I see.

 

If I happen to encounter an officer for any reason"

I am cooperative in every way

I mirror the respect that I'm shown.

If at night, I turn on the light inside my vehicle so they can see me well, roll down my window and then place my hands upon my steering wheel in full view. I give them no reason for alarm.

I do exactly what they tell me to and I do not speak unless asked a question. I don't make small talk and I keep it professional.

If I am transporting firearms, which in my line of work is quite often, one of the first things I do is make them aware of that fact and produce any documentation they ask for. (Either personal or from my employer)

 

I harbor no resentment whatsoever toward the men who were involved in the incident that cost my brother his life. In a combat situation, hesitation can bear a heavy cost and no amount of training can prepare anyone for the real thing, regardless of how realistic the training is. Training is a foundation - nothing more. I do it for a living and it's been my experience that not much goes the way we plan it.

 

Because of all the above - I do not trust them to make good judgement desisions in tense situations because they have little to no real life experience in that arena. I want to avoid any "tense" situation with any of them. We can watch cop shows on TV, but that's not real life; anymore than the screen can represent real combat. In the viewing, there are no casualties, just simulations, like training, regardless of the amount of realism portrayed. When it's real - it is real and people really die.

That said - I do not trust them.

 

BTW - Rodney King - RIP

 

[4wheeldog]

 

It is clearly not something we should merely spew hate about. That never helps. If you lament that nothing has changed and nothing is going to change, take a look in the mirror and blame that guy.

 

I am curious what you considered to be "Spewing hate". I don't think anything I said contained the slightest bit of hate. Resentment, concern, and distrust, yes.......But hate, not a bit of it. So, please give an example of what you considered "Spewing hate"......Or is that just projection, on your part?

[TyTass]

I don't know how you define hate but Webster has it as ... an intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury.

 

I think you need only reread your posts and your response with that definition in mind and you'll see I infer nothing.

 

Couch it however you want to, but you have almost certainly offended nearly every LEO here with the broad brush characterizations of all LEOs.

[4wheeldog]

I don't know how you define hate but Webster has it as ... an intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury.

 

I think you need only reread your posts and your response with that definition in mind and you'll see I infer nothing.

 

Couch it however you want to, but you have almost certainly offended nearly every LEO here with the broad brush characterizations of all LEOs.

 

Think what you like. I reserve my "Hate" for actual individuals who do the wrong thing on purpose. If you can't see that in what I have written, you have some work to do on comprehension.

[DaveTheAffable]

Are LEO's all "bad" - no - but I have yet to develop a system to identify which is which. Unique perspectives? Yeah - they have that all right. To me, they appear accountable to no one; certainly not the general public who they are supposed to serve.

I have a tainted view of LEO's and here's why.

 

I had a brother that was killed during a drug raid five years after coming home from Vietnam - they broke down the door of his house at 0300 with no warning and no announcement that they were police officers. Guess what - they were at the wrong house!

Please excuse me for the skepticism but I do not, nor will I ever trust any of them. PERIOD.

In no way is this meant to minimize the loss of your brother. It is/was a HORRIBLE tragedy. I hope someday you can find a LEO to trust,,,

 

 

 

(Rant on)

 

We gotta get this country fixed! Let's blame:

 

- The LEO's

- The Coaches

- The Priests

- The Lawyers

- The Doctors

- The Students who verbally abuse grandmothers

- Dishonest Mechanics

- Dishonest Contractors

- Judges

- Financial Institutions

- Politicians

- Motorcyclists who don't ride like we do...

 

They... are WE.

 

Let's start with Fathers! There are SO many that abuse their children, beat them, berate them. Including mine! Therefore, being a father is no longer noble. And, I doubt I can ever meet another father that I trust. Best keep my distance. Those fathers can do a lot of damage. Some have even killed their own children. No offense to those of you who are fathers. And don't give me any stories about what a great father you are, or how great your father was. I had a bad experience, and all fathers will be judged by my experience, and many others who were beat by their fathers. And, don't take it "personal". But just look at the news! SO many fathers that are bad people.

 

That's it! Let's outlaw Fathers!

 

 

(Rant off)

[dba]

I think Harlan Ellison, noted author said it best in a lecture I attended years ago:

 

"A Police Officer will start out his career with the best of intentions, but as is so often the case, the authority they wield will invariably devolve into a god-complex that ultimately turns them into the person they so despise, a thug with a badge."

 

Mr. Ellison is wrong. Instead of quoting an author of fiction try this:

 

There is no “nice” way to arrest a potentially dangerous, combative suspect. The police are our bodyguards, our hired fists, batons and guns. We pay them to do the dirty work of protecting us, the work we’re too afraid, too unskilled or too civilized to do ourselves. We expect them to keep the bad guys out of our businesses, car and houses; out of our faces. We want them to “take care of the problem.” We just don’t want to see how it’s done. Charles Webb, Ph.D.

 

 

I know a lot of cops, (my wife is still a cop) both working and retired and not one of them feel as Mr. Ellison described. After 25 years of service, I sleep like a log every night. I know I did good work and made a positive difference to a lot of people. I broke one man’s knee with my baton after he beat his wife senseless and tried to do the same to me. The evening prior he had fought a police officer and gotten sprayed with OC. Just prior to my encounter with him, he had answered the door holding a rifle and told the first responding officer to leave. 10 years after that event up to the day I retired, every time he saw me, he thanked me for his education and he never had another run in with the police.

 

During my career, I had as Jimmy Buffet once sang, “I’ve had good days, and bad days and going half mad days.” On father’s day, I had two men I had mentored from about ages 15-18, now in their mid twenties call me to tell me how much they appreciated the guidance I provided to them while they were younger. One of them is starting BUD/S later this year.

 

A bit of Use of Force history from an Impact Weapons Instructor. When police officers started carrying batons, they were for one purpose; to inflict trauma in order to overcome resistance to a lawful arrest. A compound fracture of a hand, wrist, elbow, collarbone or knee would usually stop a fight immediately with no more injury to the alleged bad guy. With the advent of HIV, Hep B and other blood borne pathogens, the powers that be decided that instead of hitting bones, the target areas would be large muscle groups; ie the thigh, calf, buttocks, triceps area. That was the case during the King incident. You’ll also notice in the full video that a lot of the strikes hit the ground. It is very awkward to swing down with the side-handle baton that was in vogue at the time and a lot of the swings missed their target. Most people while resisting move; that’s part of the resisting. While under the influence of a narcotic, a person can take a lot of blows on a large muscle and not suffer an injury that convinces them to stop fighting. That can cause the encounter to time extend. Most agencies have now gone back to striking bone areas in order to facilitate a quick ending to the resistance.

 

While my wife was an LA County Deputy, she had several contacts with Mr. King resulting in his arrest both prior to and after the incident in discussion. None of the contacts were without some type of drama emanating from Mr. King. Life is a series of choices. One should choose wisely. Mr. King made poor choices his entire adult life and the world is a better place without him. Good riddance.