Mulholland carnage

[ESokoloff]

 

Not a particularly difficult road unless you go out of your way, which it seems some do, to make it crashworthy.

 

Have you expereinced this road first hand? (Muholland Hwy betwwen the Rock Store & Kannon Dume Rd.)

It is a very tight & technical IE difficult road.

 

The corner in question is to the West. It's the 180* turn with a decreasing radius (West bound) that has negative banking.

As I've stated before, If a rider comes into this turn too hot, they stand an elevated chance of having a mishap.

Having the distraction of the photographers & crowds adds to the situation.

[tallman]

Nope.

 

But I've seen enough of the road to tell it is not hard

 

" If a rider comes into this turn too hot, they stand an elevated chance of having a mishap.

Having the distraction of the photographers & crowds adds to the situation."

 

unless you go out of your way...

 

the quote from your post seems to support my statement.

 

"too hot", "distractions", and apparently extremely well known

 

So, knowing this, a rider should act accordingly.

It isn't as if they were riding in the dark/rain and seeing it for the first time with no knowledge.

It isn't a private course, it is a public road, right?

 

No sympathy for people who want to push their limits on a public raod and crash for the camera.

 

I still say if you ride it at posted speed it isn't difficult according to many riders.

 

Seems no problem except for those wanting to show off and getting in over their head.

 

Of course it is all the fault of the road design.

Yeah, that's it.

 

Nope.

Just because a road is there doesn't mean we have the right to

take it over and become scofflaws.

 

That happened at Deal's Gap and the speed limit was dropped from

55 to 30. Enforcement increased exponentially.

Nothing changed with the road.

What changed was the notoriety and the type/number of riders who came through taking over the road, crashing, dying, causing

inflated costs and statistics.

 

Most good riders avoid the place.

If they go, the speeds are lower and the ride a different experience most of the time but we know some idiot on a supernotardy or street racer is likely to come flying around the corner in your lane.

So you ride forewarned.

Some still ignore the reality and act immaturely/illegally/ with a fork you attitude as they seem indifferent to the societal costs and potential for death/injury to others.

 

That's what I see in the videos.

A bunch of chumps who think breaking the law by speeding through

a road and crashing while being filmed makes them special.

 

The rider who did a saddle sore 1000 at Deal's Gap (unrecognized but very well documented) didn't crash and he had to average over the speed limit to get the miles.

Many parts of the Gap are more difficult than the video.

 

Comes down to competence which includes knowing when/where/how fast to push it.

Some are impressed by crashing, apparently.

Must be a left coast thing.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

WOW!

[ESokoloff]

Well Tim seeings that we've reached an impasse on the matter I propose that we agree to disagree & move on

[tallman]

Not a problem.

 

 

[ESokoloff]

So this A.M. I had an opportunity to peddle up & talk to Paul

It was a good day to interview him about this section of road as with todays drizzly conditions, he was not very busy.

Along with the points I've made (deceasing radius with little to negative banking in that area), he also mentioned that the corner has two apexes & that on at the entrance to the curve there is a slight unevenness to the pavement.

 

So I'm not sure if the last section would be defined as being a decreasing radius or double apex but the net result is the same.

A rider interning the corner maxed out is going to run out of margin.

 

As far as the un-even pavement I'm kicking myself for not looking into that while I was up there but if you study

at the 1:45 mark you will see the back of the bike bouncing a bit after passing over the transition in the pavement.

 

As far as the accusations that the photographers are slicking up the pavement.... "ludicrous" was his response.

In fact as we were talking, rnickymouse showed up & saw that there was a bit of debris/mud from the precipitation & tasked himself up with scraping off the shoulder.

So much for sabotage. Tho in fun he did state he recently switched to Spam as his road lubricant of choice

 

Paul informed me that he had recently entered into discussion about the road & the presence of the photographers.

 

Google is my friend.... I found it & here it is.

 

Surprisingly enough It actually manages to mostly stay on topic.... at least until about page 15 or so

[Effjay]

Like Eric (and maybe a few other locals here), I've been riding that road since 1972 after I bought my 1st real moto (Yamaha R5C). Compound double apexes at the summit "sum it" up well. My only causality there was a ticket decades ago when I assumed no LEO saw me crossing the double yellow in search of style points. I never made that mistake again...

 

Ironically, it was a squidly RD400 rider in 1980 that provided me an ambulance ride to the hospital ER when he chose to pass a VW Rabbit on the outside of the decreasing radius blind turn where the large rock outcropping hangs over the road. At the point I saw him, he was already in my lane as I was heading uphill with shoulder berm and drop off down the hill to my right. I countersteered but his gearshift lever punched through my left boot (still have it as a souvenir) and we both crashed. Hey, its always been dangerous up there...

[ESokoloff]

 

...Ironically, it was a squidly RD400 rider in 1980 that provided me an ambulance ride to the hospital ER...

 

Hey, that wasn't me..... I had a 350

 

Actually it was gone the year before that after a car pulled out on me

[tallman]

Well Eric,

"A rider interning the corner maxed out is going to run out of margin."

 

Again, seems like you are making my point.

Speeding/going too fast/maxing out are all within the rider's control.

Don't do that and you should be OK right?

 

Passing a VW Rabbit on the outside in the decreasing radious/double apex, same.

 

The road is no more accident casuing than many I see in the Smokies.

only the actions of the rider are making it so.

To blame it on the road is disingenous when excessive speed and reckless (but not wreckless) actions are involved.

 

It is a public road and has obviously been known of and crashed on by these accounts for over 40 years.

Feel free to provide documentation of any accident casued by the road, and not the rider/driver.

 

We can disagree, but I'm not going to blame the road.

Road design may be improved, don't know, but I'm sure the road has regulatory signs wrt speed and curves.

Never want to see a crash, but seems as if some are exceeding their abilities on a difficult public road and natural consequences ensue.

 

 

 

[2SlowDave]

I suspect the engineers that built "The Snake" knew this section of road was a trap. Why else would they put a parking lot/grandstand area at the top of it?

 

There is an illusionary quality to the road, like those novelty attractions where water seemingly flows uphill.

Even if one rides it slow and stays well within their limits, someone else can take you out. Heck, you can get hit standing 30 feet from the roadside on the inside of a turn. I've seen speeding cars and trucks with all four wheels over the double yellow in a blind curve.

The Darwin factor goes exponential here in a circus gone bad.

 

I tend to avoid this road, but still get suckered into it occasionally while riding with others. I always breath a huge sigh of relief at the end.

 

In the war between man and mountain, man may win a battle or two but the mountain will always win the war.

[ESokoloff]

Never want to see a crash, but seems as if some are exceeding their abilities on a difficult public road and natural consequences ensue.

 

 

 

That single sentence pretty much sums up my stand on this matter.

I guess I was not clear when I took issue with your assertion that you could judge this roads complexity (or lack thereof) merely from watching videos off the internet.

 

. Rather I'm trying to determine the nuts & bolts/physics of why this turn bites a rider from time to time.

 

 

 

 

[ESokoloff]

I suspect the engineers that built "The Snake" knew this section of road was a trap. Why else would they put a parking lot/grandstand area at the top of it?

 

Twas not always a "parking lot/grandstand" there..... Dirt pullout circa(+-) 1976

[tallman]

Eric,

 

off camber roads and too much speed always get you in the end.

We had Interstate ramps recently redesigned and rebuilt here.

 

Frequent big rig jack-knife and roll overs due to excessive (sic)speed by the big trucks entering and exiting I 10 due to decreasing radius and some off camber design.

 

It happens.

 

 

[AdventurePoser]

Buying leathers and a sport bike does not give one skills any more than dressing up like a hooker and standing on a corner makes you a prostitute.

 

Not a particularly difficult road unless you go out of your way, which it seems some do, to make it crashworthy.

 

[tallman]

[ESokoloff]

 

Not like this kind of activity doesn't happen EVERY weekend

[russell_bynum]

 

Not like this kind of activity doesn't happen EVERY weekend

 

[upflying]

750hp helps but drifting is not the fastest way to skin a snake.

[russell_bynum]

750hp helps but drifting is not the fastest way to skin a snake.

 

Yeah, but chicks dig it.

[ESokoloff]

750hp helps but drifting is not the fastest way to skin a snake.

 

It was the fastest way around

[ESokoloff]

And for that matter the

as well.

[ESokoloff]

So last Saturday I decided to clear the cobwebs from the RT's exhaust & my brain & do a couple of laps around the Snake.

Yesterday I went to Paul's site to see what he captured of my passes.

I found this... http://shop.rockstorephotos.com/p340649313/h5d6af8f8#h5d6af8b4

Don't know the story but it appears the pack of cyclists were riding up hill and just at the end of the 180* turn when a motorcyclist over cooked the turn & ended up plowing into the back of them. OUCH.

 

In spite of what some may think, this is NOT a weekly occurrence but happens it does.

 

Ride safe.

[AdventurePoser]

I agree...haven't seen nearly the accidents on the coastal roads that I've seen in the local mountains.

 

Hmmm...all this talk might mean The Rockstore on Wednesday....

 

Steve

[ESokoloff]

You'll have the Store as well as the road all to your self.

Wish I could join you.

 

Suggest you pop over the hill to the Oxnard Plain & pick up some fresh strawberries at a roadside vender (tho I don't know if they will be out during the weekday).

[ESokoloff]

 

Hmmm...all this talk might mean The Rockstore on Wednesday....

 

Steve

 

I smell Road Tale....

[LBump]

So last Saturday I decided to clear the cobwebs from the RT's exhaust & my brain & do a couple of laps around the Snake.

Yesterday I went to Paul's site to see what he captured of my passes.

I found this... http://shop.rockstorephotos.com/p340649313/h5d6af8f8#h5d6af8b4

Don't know the story but it appears the pack of cyclists were riding up hill and just at the end of the 180* turn when a motorcyclist over cooked the turn & ended up plowing into the back of them. OUCH.

 

In spite of what some may think, this is NOT a weekly occurrence but

 

 

happens it does

 

 

 

 

Ride safe.

 

 

If the motorcyclist was looking through the curve he should have been aware of the cyclist. I'm going to assume he was more aware of the photography and filming going on and then he was hit with target

 

There was a group of about 24 with George Hincapie... he's in a few of the shots on Paul's site. Read more...

[ESokoloff]

I was thinking target fixation but didn't know.

 

After watching the vid, definitely target fixation as well as lack of situation awareness.

 

Sad to see someone prosecuted for their inadequacy but I trust charges will be filed.

[tallman]

If it is the one I saw w/red feet down while riding into the bicycle.

Seems like the place to meet an ashhat mc rider.

[russell_bynum]

If it is the one I saw w/red feet down while riding into the bicycle.

Seems like the place to meet an ashhat mc rider.

 

I also have to say you'd have to have a death wish to ride a bicycle on Mullholland on a weekend. (And I'm saying this as a guy who does more miles on bicycles than motorcycles these days.)

 

The place is used as a racetrack by every squid in LA county. There's a reason there's a guy with a camera there.

 

The cyclists were riding single-file and on the far right side of the road, which was good, but still...you couldn't get me out there on a Saturday even at gunpoint.

[NCStephen]

Don't know the story but it appears the pack of cyclists were riding up hill and just at the end of the 180* turn when a motorcyclist over cooked the turn & ended up plowing into the back of them. OUCH.

 

In spite of what some may think, this is NOT a weekly occurrence but happens it does.

 

Ride safe.

 

So in watching the vid from postings on ADV rider as well as some of from a bike behind the crashing motorcycle, he didn't overcook much of anything. Speed really wasn't an issue. He had been passing other bicyclist so he should NOT have been surprised by a few more. Yet in the video you can see he wasn't looking through the turn and then near the exit , while following a nice mid lane path, he sees the bicycles, looks at them, stands the bike up, appears to hardly slow (rear brake only maybe) and drives right into them. There is clear dirt to the right, clear pavement to the left. He has nice room from where he saw them to slow yet didn't. He had room to continue his line without adjustment so he would move to the center of the road, yet didn't. He just froze and didn't do much of anything. In a news report they said speed might be a factor. It was in the sense he didn't change his speed much at all to miss them.

 

I guess it pays all of us to continue to learn and refresh skills to avoid us freezing at the controls.

 

NCS