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Mulholland carnage


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I apologize if this has been posted before. I stumbled on this You Tube play list and found the photography stunning. No gore here, it is all PG rated. Lots to be learned on how crashes develop. Take your pick all riding errors and mistakes are here. Too much front brake, too much rear brake, too much speed, wrong line, too much throttle, wrong gear, no atgatt, hi side, low side and great slow-mo. I find the predictability of the accidents at this one particular curve shocking. What's going on here? Are the hoons and squids overdoing it for the benefit of the Rock Store camera? Are they intentionally crashing on the hopes they will be the lead videos during the beer party afterwards? Is crashing a badge of courage and honor? Is the coefficient of friction on the curve a problem? Did the photographers spray a slippery liquid on the surface of the curve? Interesting there are no BMW's and Harley Davidsons in the crash scene. Very interesting to see the post crash damage to the bikes.

I feel very bad for the guard rail. You will need time, there are 54 video clips.

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I posted rnickeymouse youtube page last year... but every year there is a brand new batch of Mulholland Snake silliness!

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Bob

It's what I call the weekend warrior phenomena. They spend the week as normal humans, maybe even commuting to work by bike.

And on weekends think they have entered the world of pro racing.

Basically it's a mad house out there, and I avoid it on weekends, if I can.

dc

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I saw this one before and watched to figure out what went wrong. The guy was bumping hard parts all through the curve, had a very unsteady line, hits a dip and raises the rear off the ground. Not purdy. Notes to self on this. Hard parts scrapping are BAD.

 

NCS

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The guy riding the white scooter tries to stick his leg out supermoto style :rofl:

 

Dumbass deserved to lose his Croc over the guardrail :rofl:

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It's a little surprising that there were no decapitations or other mayhem (though maybe they left those out). No one cause, but I think it's interesting how many are on and off the power through a curve. With as much horsepower as many of these bikes have, smoothness is essential.

 

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Mulholland & The Dragon seem to have an unofficial contest for riding stupidity. West meets East; Dumb & Dumber. :P

 

Target fixation anyone?!

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I wonder how much the crowd on the side of the road contributes to distracting the riders as they go around the corner.

 

------

 

 

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PhilipJCaputo
It's a little surprising that there were no decapitations or other mayhem (though maybe they left those out). No one cause, but I think it's interesting how many are on and off the power through a curve. With as much horsepower as many of these bikes have, smoothness is essential.

 

I only live a few miles from that (in)famous curve. I don't follow the news heavily, but I don't hear much of many bikers being killed. However, the guy that posts the motorcycle crash videos (rnickymouse?) does have another play list or short video of cars (and some bikes) crossing the center line and other close calls.

 

I've ridden it several times, usually in early to mid afternoon... it is twisty... but not that great of a ride. There are several other stretches of road through the Santa Monica mountains that are superior (and less crowded). I like faster wider sweeping turns, those curves are all pretty tightly wound, and you're either going up hill at a steep angle or down.

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those curves are all pretty tightly wound, and you're either going up hill at a steep angle or down.

 

Haha......you need to come out to the Smokies and Appalachian mountains if you want to see tightly wound corners. To me, that road doesn't look any worse than a few on the on/off ramps we have around here. The West coasters on the big K bikes always gripe about our tight technical stuff :grin:

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Joe Frickin' Friday
I wonder how much the crowd on the side of the road contributes to distracting the riders as they go around the corner.

 

If so, I blame the rider.

 

 

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There's nothing new in three decades of squidliness on Mulholland near the Rock Store, 'cept perhaps newer technology. Now? When I ride past the overlook photog, I keep my line (maybe I'll like what I see online). Then? Flashback to 1980 when on that particular Memorial Weekend day I choose to ride my new Suz GS450S (Dunstall styled wanna-be). So I stopped at the 'Store for awhile, then continued up the road to the overlook. My pace was mild but sadly I never made it, 'cus a young squid on a Yammie RD was passing a small sedan outside the decreasing radius blind turn where the huge rock outcropping overhangs. By the time we saw each other, no option for me uphill with steep downhill slope below road shoulder so I countersteered as I suppose did the squid. His gearshift lever punctured my left leather boot top, both bikes went down and I finished my ride in an ambulance to nearby Westlake Village Hospital with a couple of foot surgeries ensuing. Hey, I still have that guy's shift lever (conscripted at the scene) as well as the pin that held one of my shattered toes together post-surgery shish kabob style.

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those curves are all pretty tightly wound, and you're either going up hill at a steep angle or down.

 

Haha......you need to come out to the Smokies and Appalachian mountains if you want to see tightly wound corners. To me, that road doesn't look any worse than a few on the on/off ramps we have around here. The West coasters on the big K bikes always gripe about our tight technical stuff :grin:

 

Yeah, I think that's a fair description... That doesn't look so bad to me, unless there's a crown or surface imperfection that makes so many of these guys seem unable to avoid loosing traction. The audio sure doesn't make it sound like they're moving that fast or accelerating that hard.

 

 

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Frankly, in a number of the videos it looks to me like dust/dirt blows/flows over the road on that curve. Not that it's the root cause, but as many aren't traveling all that fast nor do they seem overly unbalanced, it seems something else may be at work, resulting in a lower'than-expected degree of friction in that curve. (Not an excuse ... but man that's a lot of people low-siding.)

 

Of course, on the inside of that curve it appears that one small dip gets anyone with an unbalanced bike.

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I wonder how much the crowd on the side of the road contributes to distracting the riders as they go around the corner.

If so, I blame the rider.

Well said, Joe. If you allow yourself to be distracted, all the blame sits in your lap.

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Frankly, in a number of the videos it looks to me like dust/dirt blows/flows over the road on that curve. Not that it's the root cause, but as many aren't traveling all that fast nor do they seem overly unbalanced, it seems something else may be at work, resulting in a lower'than-expected degree of friction in that curve. (Not an excuse ... but man that's a lot of people low-siding.)

 

Of course, on the inside of that curve it appears that one small dip gets anyone with an unbalanced bike.

 

Gravity storm location.

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Frankly, in a number of the videos it looks to me like dust/dirt blows/flows over the road on that curve. Not that it's the root cause, but as many aren't traveling all that fast nor do they seem overly unbalanced, it seems something else may be at work, resulting in a lower'than-expected degree of friction in that curve. (Not an excuse ... but man that's a lot of people low-siding.)

 

Of course, on the inside of that curve it appears that one small dip gets anyone with an unbalanced bike.

 

Gravity storm location.

Hey all, I wasn't implying that it wasn't the rider's fault. It just seemed dusty/dirty to me ... meaning needing of more caution or at least waaaaaaay smoother actions/reactions.

 

But gravity storm vortex works the same as dust ... requires better pilots! :grin:

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Dave_zoom_zoom
Frankly, in a number of the videos it looks to me like dust/dirt blows/flows over the road on that curve. Not that it's the root cause, but as many aren't traveling all that fast nor do they seem overly unbalanced, it seems something else may be at work, resulting in a lower'than-expected degree of friction in that curve. (Not an excuse ... but man that's a lot of people low-siding.)

 

Of course, on the inside of that curve it appears that one small dip gets anyone with an unbalanced bike.

 

 

 

+1

Dave

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I really don't get it. Obviously this turn has a great deal of notoriety — hence the video crew — so why do people keep doing the same thing over and over again? I haven't been on Mulholland since the early 1970's, so I remember almost nothing of the road, but this appears to be a very tight, and therefore, slow turn, which probably accounts for so many people walking away — even the squid on the scooter in shorts and Crocs.

 

Camera angles make it difficult to gauge lean angles, and while some were kneedraggers, several of these riders didn't appear to be leaned over all that far, so there perhaps there is something treacherous about the surface in this turn.

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..... perhaps there is something treacherous about the surface in this turn.

 

It's a bit of a decreasing radius with not much (if any) banking so if you approach it at 95% you will run out of safety margin before the exit.

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Thank you for finally putting this one to bed Eric. I was going to do it but couldn't explain it in written words for the non-locals.

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AdventurePoser

I know that curve well...while there is an entire spectrum of ability riding Mulholland, I believe the cameras, trucks and people are very distracting.

 

Me, I only have 45 hours to go and I am retired. Then I can ride the Santa Monica mountains any day I want, and leave the weekends to the squids and loud pipe and chrome boys....

 

Steve

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....Me, I only have 45 hours to go and I am retired....

 

T-minus ? hrs..... But who's counting :grin:

 

Congrats Steve :thumbsup:

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..... perhaps there is something treacherous about the surface in this turn.

 

It's a bit of a decreasing radius with not much (if any) banking so if you approach it at 95% you will run out of safety margin before the exit.

I still think the photog's sprayed and fogged some slippery substance on the curve for the benefit of the cameras.

Can't prove it and no one will admit to it obviously but the lean angles don't seem all that extreme before the low side/high side occurs.

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Bob

You are only seeing the crashes. They don't film the non crashes. Go out there. Most bikes don't crash.

For every one that crashes, there are 10 or 20 or more that go by with no problem.

dc

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Bob

You are only seeing the crashes. They don't film the non crashes. Go out there. Most bikes don't crash.

For every one that crashes, there are 10 or 20 or more that go by with no problem.

dc

 

David, how many bikes would you guess go through there in a day? 100? 1000? If we're still seeing 1 in 20 go down, that's a pretty high rate I would think.

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Bob

You are only seeing the crashes. They don't film the non crashes. Go out there. Most bikes don't crash.

For every one that crashes, there are 10 or 20 or more that go by with no problem.

dc

 

David, how many bikes would you guess go through there in a day? 100? 1000? If we're still seeing 1 in 20 go down, that's a pretty high rate I would think.

 

Here you will find 1.25k images of Paul's P.M. session of last Sunday.

I only counted one crash.

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..... perhaps there is something treacherous about the surface in this turn.

 

It's a bit of a decreasing radius with not much (if any) banking so if you approach it at 95% you will run out of safety margin before the exit.

I still think the photog's sprayed and fogged some slippery substance on the curve for the benefit of the cameras.

Can't prove it and no one will admit to it obviously but the lean angles don't seem all that extreme before the low side/high side occurs.

 

Well, you need to think about the possibility stunt riders and stunt doubles... Realize this area is a Mecca for film, actors and the like. Perhaps some of these riders are stuntman and are riding to take the fall. Perhaps they’re friends of the photographer or… distant friends. You ask, why would they do such a stupid thing as to cause injury to themselves and/or to others…? They’re stupid. :dopeslap: Maybe even hIgh n sTupid. :dopeslap: Or, it could be to boost their ego; to be captured on YouTube... (more stupid in my opinion). At any rate it would be pretty messed up on the part of the photographer and his crew to tamper with the road surface.

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Matt

It is a high rate. But not all go down, thus negating the idea that there is something placed on the road.

I think the vast majority do not go down.

As to how many go thru' on a Saturday and a Sunday, I would say far more than 1000 each day.

They do keep statistics on some of the intersections around here, and the numbers are into the several 100,000 per day.

So, and based on my experience out on some of those roads, I would suspect more than 1000 every weekend day. Even on a weekday I'm sure you will see more than 100. I have.

dc

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..... perhaps there is something treacherous about the surface in this turn.

 

It's a bit of a decreasing radius with not much (if any) banking so if you approach it at 95% you will run out of safety margin before the exit.

I still think the photog's sprayed and fogged some slippery substance on the curve for the benefit of the cameras.

Can't prove it and no one will admit to it obviously but the lean angles don't seem all that extreme before the low side/high side occurs.

 

Could be. But I know of a few spots in my neck of the woods where the road surface gets a polish, maybe 20-30% less traction than you would expect, with no additions, and clean, dry pavement. I know about them, because I pay attention. You can actually see the difference, when the light is right. Of course, we have snow and the subsequent sand here, and I believe this is what supplies the "Rouge" to buff the surface. It can be fun on four wheels, when you exceed the traction limit a bit going around the curve......But I am always very careful with throttle application in those spots on a MC. I have felt the little sideslip warnings.

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Matt

It is a high rate. But not all go down, thus negating the idea that there is something placed on the road.

I think the vast majority do not go down.

As to how many go thru' on a Saturday and a Sunday, I would say far more than 1000 each day.

They do keep statistics on some of the intersections around here, and the numbers are into the several 100,000 per day.

So, and based on my experience out on some of those roads, I would suspect more than 1000 every weekend day. Even on a weekday I'm sure you will see more than 100. I have.

dc

 

Thanks David.

 

Looks like most are able to dust themselves off and carry on, is that the case usually?`

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Matt

I speak of Mulholland, Angeles Crest, Angeles Forest, and Ortega.

The ones that can pick up the pieces and move along asap. They don't want to discuss the situation with law enforcement.

On weekdays, you generally see no one go down. On weekends you rarely see them, as they are long roads and you can only see a small section. You only see emergency services going up or coming down. Or hear on the radio, usually only of a death. Of which there are seldom 10 for the whole year for all 4 roads.

I only know of one 'crash corner' like you have there on Mulholland.

dc

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  • 4 weeks later...
TN_R11_Girl
Mulholland & The Dragon seem to have an unofficial contest for riding stupidity. West meets East; Dumb & Dumber. :P

 

Target fixation anyone?!

 

:thumbsup:

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  • 3 months later...

I've ridden "The Snake" many times. Unless you need a cool avatar photo :grin:, avoid "The Snake" on the weekends.

Approach roads are heavily patrolled. There is lots of traffic, many wannabe stunterz, show offs, bicycles, cars, road hogs. Many cross way over the double yellow. Much of the insanity never makes it to You Tube.

I don't suspect the photographer of greasing the turns, but there is a trouble maker element in the crowd.

When several riders in a row washout at the same spot, I have to wonder.

Hangin' out at the Rock Store can be fun, no "Snake" ride is needed to do that.

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I've ridden "The Snake" many times. Unless you need a cool avatar photo :grin:, avoid "The Snake" on the weekends.

Approach roads are heavily patrolled. There is lots of traffic, many wannabe stunterz, show offs, bicycles, cars, road hogs. Many cross way over the double yellow. Much of the insanity never makes it to You Tube.

I don't suspect the photographer of greasing the turns, but there is a trouble maker element in the crowd.

When several riders in a row washout at the same spot, I have to wonder.

Hangin' out at the Rock Store can be fun, no "Snake" ride is needed to do that.

 

Best to ride this area in the early AM (as you did when your image was captured by Paul).

 

I'm a cyclist so yes, please do watch out for me.

 

As far as hanging out @ the Rock Store & not riding this section......

What a wast of resources :(

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I was surprised to see bicyclists and motorcycles in some of the videos. I ride a little when I'm not running, there is no way I'd want to be grinding up a hill while amateurs wiz by barely under control.

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Every road surface is different. Parking garages are very slippery, as they trowel the surface very smooth.

dc

The slipperiest road surfaces are those near a car wash. Greasy tire gloss slime is slinged (slung?) on the road as cages drive away from the car wash. Ride gently near a car wash!!

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I was surprised to see bicyclists and motorcycles in some of the videos. I ride a little when I'm not running, there is no way I'd want to be grinding up a hill while amateurs wiz by barely under control.

 

(1) This road is best ridden early or late in the day when traffic is at a minimum.

 

(2) I ride down this section (but pay a price as to do so means I must climb a steep grade).

 

(3) I try not to "grind".

Instead I attempt to "spin".

It's easier on the old knees.

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(3) I try not to "grind".

Instead I attempt to "spin".

It's easier on the old knees.

 

I've never mastered the spin, I just grind away till I'm at the top. I'd much rather run a hill than pedal it...

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(3) I try not to "grind".

Instead I attempt to "spin".

It's easier on the old knees.

 

I've never mastered the spin, I just grind away till I'm at the top. I'd much rather run a hill than pedal it...

 

Perspective needed....

 

This is my Rock Store Run elevation profile.

It's about 2,500' in 25 miles.

I live in hill country & have to take care of the knees I still have :P

 

 

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Buying leathers and a sport bike does not give one skills any more than dressing up like a hooker and standing on a corner makes you a prostitute.

 

Not a particularly difficult road unless you go out of your way, which it seems some do, to make it crashworthy.

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Watching the rnickey accident portions are instructive and usually the cause of accidents are easily seen. That said, there are some amazingly competent riders that will run this section multiple times. Some superb machines come through as well, including exotic and vintage sport cars. Too, many riders stay completely within their limits.

 

It is a pleasure for me to sit a few hours and watch the show. In multiple visits, I've only seen two get offs, both without serious injury. For me, it is worth the time spent to sit, listen and watch. The Crest is another place where you can ride and have an amazing experience, however, The Ortega seems to be overgrown compared to twenty years ago.

 

 

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