The beginning of the end for California Lane Splitting???

[Kathy R]

If I open my car door I feel that I am completely responsible for having checked for pedestrians or motorcyclists or bicyclists or whatever. If I am on a roadway or in a parking lot, I am responsible for whatever I do to change the game.

 

I'm a big believer in the value of lane splitting for riders who are stuck in slow to no moving traffic.

 

In the future we'll either be on motorcycles or in smart cars. The cars will provide a mindless transit, where the computer takes all the work out of the drive. For the riders...it will be good old do it yourself transit. The advantage will be that we will no longer be subject to folks who "weren't looking", "didn't see us", or who were "aiming for us".

 

That's my vision of a perfect world. Split on.

[David13]

California Vehicle Code section 22517:

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc22517.htm

dc

[Quinn]

The idea is just that the bike can do things the car can't do.

So why shouldn't it be able to? Because you say so?

 

So I can ride on the sidewalk also? Maybe park in the lobby of my building? Ride down the breakdown lane on the other side of the freeway? Like a lot of other issues, just cause you can doesn't mean you should.

 

-----

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

Besides the questions of legality and arguable safety from both do and don't-do sides, the main factor is the behavior and mind set of car drivers. Apparently in California drivers are used to filterers, accept it and some times help. I don't know of any other country where filtering/lane splitting is not practiced. Common and promoted in Europe. South America doesn't count, you do anything you want anyways. I understand in Japan at traffic lights there are two stop lines. One in front for two-wheelers and one farther back for cars. Motorcycles filter through to the front line and start off first when the light changes. Much safer than being mixed in between the cars. In the USA in most States filtering is prohibited and resented by car drivers. The resentment has nothing to do with safety. It is pure jealousy. Why can they move when I can't... Motorcycles going through doesn't make the cars move slower or get there later.

Off the soap box...

[biometrics]

David13, It was YOU, not Bernard, that I directly quoted:

 

"But at other times when the traffic is dead stopped I should be able to. A whole lot of the cars move over."

 

...and my question stands: WHY should you be able to? Because you have chosen to ride an air cooled motorcycle you should be granted some kind of priority over the other vehicles who are in front of you in your lane on the road?

 

The fact that "lane splitting" may be legal in your state, simply because it is not prohibited, doesn't automatically confer any special driving privileges to motorcyclists.

 

How about if the driver of a tiny FIAT 500 4 passenger car (or any car for that matter)thinks that he can get around the car in front of him just because he thinks he has room to squeeze between lanes? Is it "legal" for him to lane split between the vehicle in front of him and the one in the passing lane that is also stopped? That could result in pandemonium in a traffic jam...

 

You can take whatever risks you choose when riding, but please don't believe for a minute that the lack of prohibition of an activity grants you a special favor over other vehicles who are on the road. That would be an ASSUMPTION.

 

It may be common sense to look behind you in stopped traffic before opening a car door, but I doubt that a cage driver who did so would be found liable for damages if a lane splitting motorcyclist got "clotheslined" when they did so.

 

...Just my $0.02

[SPX]

How about if the driver of a tiny FIAT 500 4 passenger car (or any car for that matter)thinks that he can get around the car in front of him just because he thinks he has room to squeeze between lanes? Is it "legal" for him to lane split between the vehicle in front of him and the one in the passing lane that is also stopped?

 

Using your example, combined with the California vehicle code, yes, the FIAT would be just as "legal" to lane share as a motorcycle. Because lane sharing is neither allowed nor prohibited in the CVC, technically speaking, the same rules apply to cars and motorcycles as it relates to lane sharing.

[David13]

Biometrics

So if you don't like it, it should be illegal for me? Do you believe that about all things? Like motorcycles?

Now, as to liability. The answer is a ... dead bang yes.

If you don't believe it, I have to ask you, how long have you been a California attorney?

As to special privileges, yes, indeed the motorcycle does have special privileges, which are based on the simple physics of it.

Would you be in favor of a law that banned motorcycles from getting better gas mileage than a SUV? Why not? Why should those motorcycles have a 'special privilege'?

dc

[Bill_Walker]

Biometrics, you're looking only at individuals and missing the bigger picture. Basically, your only gripe is that "somebody's cutting in line!"

 

What harm has occurred to you as a motorist if a motorcycle splits lanes? Have you lost anything? No. In fact, studies have shown that allowing motorcycles to split lanes, rather than ride with traffic, increases the carrying capacity of the road, with the result that everybody wins. Both the motorcyclists and the drivers arrive at their destinations earlier. Yes, the motorcyclists gain a larger advantage. So what? The motorists are still better off. You're making more efficient use of the available roadway.

 

Further, lane splitting is safer for motorcyclists. If you get rear-ended in bumper-to-bumper traffic on a motorcycle, you're pretty much dead. You're the meat in the sandwich, so to speak. If you get side-swiped while splitting, you may not even go down. If you do go down, you may not get run over.

[LBump]

The fact that "lane splitting" may be legal in your state,...

 

How about if the driver of a tiny FIAT 500 4 passenger car (or any car for that matter)thinks that he can get around the car in front of him just because he thinks he has room to squeeze between lanes? Is it "legal" for him to lane split between the vehicle in front of him and the one in the passing lane that is also stopped? That could result in pandemonium in a traffic jam...

 

 

Lane sharing cannot be done in a cage. Each set of wheels would be in a lane making that illegal. When you filter and or lane share on a motorcycle in a conscientious and cautious manner you are in either one lane or another.

[David13]

Larry

They can if they are in the same lane. He said a tiny 500. Maybe it would be a micro mini. Extra small. Not regular size.

dc

[LBump]

I suppose you could try it. But I think you'll run into a problem...

 

...In California no law explicitly and clearly prohibits lane splitting, and significantly, it has become the traditional policy of law enforcement, the courts, and the public in California to tolerate it when it is done safely. However, those engaged in unsafe behavior, including unsafe lane splitting, can still be cited for violating certain sections of the vehicle code.[57] Motorcycle safety author and consultant Pat Hahn wrote in his 50-state handbook of US motorcycling laws that, "Lane sharing with vehicles other than motorcycles is not legal anywhere, including California. However, it is tolerated in California to large degree" and that "California is the only state in the country that allows lane splitting, lane sharing, and filtering. However, contrary to legend, it is not legal. Nor is it illegal. It falls in a gray area unique to California … You can (and will) get stopped and cited if you're riding like an ASS."[58] California has no laws explicitly prohibiting lane splitting, and is the only U.S. state for which official statements state that lane splitting, when done safely, is legal. ...

[Downs]

Basically, your only gripe is that "somebody's cutting in line!"

 

Everytime I talk to someone about lane splitting outside of California that quote is the crux of the conversation. Motorcyclists are cutting and that's not "fair". Sorry life isn't fair get a motorcycle and you can be a big evil lane splitter too cutting in front of everyone and flipping off nuns and stuff.

 

To me it screams grade school mentality.

[David13]

The great truth of life is ... that life is not fair.

Like I think Paul pointed out, lane splitting is common in other countries, most notably as I see it, England.

dc

[Mister Tee]

The fact that "lane splitting" may be legal in your state,...

 

How about if the driver of a tiny FIAT 500 4 passenger car (or any car for that matter)thinks that he can get around the car in front of him just because he thinks he has room to squeeze between lanes? Is it "legal" for him to lane split between the vehicle in front of him and the one in the passing lane that is also stopped? That could result in pandemonium in a traffic jam...

 

 

Lane sharing cannot be done in a cage. Each set of wheels would be in a lane making that illegal. When you filter and or lane share on a motorcycle in a conscientious and cautious manner you are in either one lane or another.

 

There is nothing in the CVC that says you can't lane share in a cage, if the lane was wide enough to accomodate two cars. There is one road near where I live that has only one marked lane in each direction (center stripe only) but both lanes are wide enough to accomodate three lanes of traffic. Car traffic quite often does shares the lanes.

[4wheeldog]

Basically, your only gripe is that "somebody's cutting in line!"

 

Everytime I talk to someone about lane splitting outside of California that quote is the crux of the conversation. Motorcyclists are cutting and that's not "fair". Sorry life isn't fair get a motorcycle and you can be a big evil lane splitter too cutting in front of everyone and flipping off nuns and stuff.

 

To me it screams grade school mentality.

 

To take it to the logical extreme, why should the car drivers be allowed to pass bicycles? Shouldn't their inability to go faster keep you from doing so, as well? A ridiculous arguement? Why is it more ridiculous than your car keeping my motorcycle from getting there earlier? (And safer, as well, but that is not part of the arguement).

[MotorinLA]

On the other hand, in 'fornia I have been surprized by lane splitters many times riding at high speeds between slow or stopped traffic. I do not feel that I should have to watch out for them when they are this irresponsible. Once I nearly opened my door in stopped traffic to stand up to see what was the hold up. I missed having a motorcycle take it off the hinges by less than a second. I think it would have killed the biker and left a lot of cars damaged as he tumbled end over end down the road. My bike is air cooled and I have passed up many chances to ride fast enough lane splitting to keep it cool simply because I don't think that I am that special.

 

What exactly did you accomplish by looking down the road from outside your car? There is NO GOOD REASON for you to do what you did in this example. Had you in fact injured or killed a motorcycle rider in this scenario, you would have been at fault and as a result you would have been liable for all applicable charges and civil liability resulting from the collision. The motorcyclist is not prohibited from sharing the lane. You on the other hand are prohibited from opening your door in traffic without due caution.

 

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is a personal peeve of mine when people exit their vehicles while stopped in traffic, simply to see what is going on down the road. It creates further traffic hazards and slows down the process of getting traffic moving again when the hold up is removed. From a traffic officer's perspective you are becoming part of the problem, not the solution.

 

Having split traffic for close to 20 years in California, I can assure you that it is not the menace to other motorists that so many non-California's seem to picture it being. It generally facilitates better traffic flow and can be done safely, if done properly. By the way, splitting at higher speeds (not higher speed differentials) is usually safer, as other vehicles change lanes less abruptly, the faster they are moving. The most dangerous conditions are present when other traffic is at a stand still, or moving very slowly. At slow speed other vehicles will commonly change lanes at a more severe angle and often stop partially in between lanes. This causes a much higher level of threat.

 

The key to safe and successful lane-sharing, as with most things, is to know your own limitations and operate within those limitations.

[nealopp]

I recommend those that are interested in the tolpic, both pro and con, to check out the Definitive Lane Sharing thread on BARF (the Bay Area Riders Forum.)

 

http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154980

 

Quoting a passage:

 

Here's the text (verbatim) from the CHP's site: "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible under California law but must done in a safe and prudent manner." The text used to also include "The motorcycle should be traveling no more than 10 mph faster than surrounding traffic (without exceeding the speed limit) and not come close enough to that traffic to cause a collision." but has since been removed. Perhaps they wanted to give cops more latitude to interpret what they thought was safe so they removed it.

[David13]

Neal

I usually avoid barf.

I do look at SBR, but even there, things can get a little salty.

dc

[Natche]

Having been to Rome last year where the scooters are everywhere and most recently to California to experience Cal style splitting I am envious of both. While the traffic in Italy seemed somewhat chaotic, there was really an order to it after all. There, the attitude of drivers was much more relaxed than here in the states. Nobody seemed to care that someone else was going ahead of them. Here, we get angry when someone gets in front of us. It's really silly. My experience with California lane splitting was positive (I was driving a car) and I see no reason why this practice, when done safely and in a controlled manner shouldn't be allowed everywhere. The only legitimate reason I guess I can see is the "jealousy" factor Paul mentions. When those jealous drivers react attempt to block splitters creating a safety issue. Seems like a poor excuse for a good practice.

 

It reminds me of road construction where two lanes go into one and the traffic backs up in the "open" lane while the other lane is open to the merge. Some drivers will ride down the open lane and merge closer to the merge point. I've seen tractor trailers blocking both lanes to keep drivers from merging closer to the front. A couple years ago along a heavily traveled road where they had a lane closure, they actually had signs that instructed drivers to "use both lanes to the merge point" and it worked beautifully, at least until someone knucklehead tried to block the lane that was merging.

 

Can't we all just get along?

[Marty Hill]

I love to split in europe and kali. Smiled just the other day on the way to friends house when I saw traffic slowing way down. Knew it was time to step up my game. The other 49 states are wrong! Think it's unfair/what a joke.

[leikam]

I could see some validity to the "cutting in line" objection if bikes were splitting past one or two cars and then getting back into a car lane and staying there. But it's very rarely like that. When a rider decides to split, other things being equal, he generally continues until traffic opens up again.

 

If you were standing in a queue and someone just cut ahead a couple places, I think we'd all agree that that isn't OK. But the analogous action when splitting lanes isn't cutting; it's leaving the queue entirely. Everybody behind you moves up and the people ahead are still in the same place.

 

Suppose I'm standing in line at the airport waiting to go through security and, as usual, the line is moving slowly. I get fed up with the wait and since I've signed up with the TSA Pre program, I move into the expedited screening line. Why would the people ahead of me see that as a problem? We all get to our plane and our final destination. (And just to make it clear, riding a motorcycle is analogous to pre-enrolling in the TSA Pre program. Those driving cars haven't enrolled.)

[Kathy R]

Well said, Michael.

[Dave_zoom_zoom]

I could see some validity to the "cutting in line" objection if bikes were splitting past one or two cars and then getting back into a car lane and staying there. But it's very rarely like that. When a rider decides to split, other things being equal, he generally continues until traffic opens up again.

 

If you were standing in a queue and someone just cut ahead a couple places, I think we'd all agree that that isn't OK. But the analogous action when splitting lanes isn't cutting; it's leaving the queue entirely. Everybody behind you moves up and the people ahead are still in the same place.

 

Suppose I'm standing in line at the airport waiting to go through security and, as usual, the line is moving slowly. I get fed up with the wait and since I've signed up with the TSA Pre program, I move into the expedited screening line. Why would the people ahead of me see that as a problem? We all get to our plane and our final destination. (And just to make it clear, riding a motorcycle is analogous to pre-enrolling in the TSA Pre program. Those driving cars haven't enrolled.)

 

 

 

EXCELLENT

 

Now----------How could we get those cagers that really become aggregated see that?

 

Dave

[David13]

The vast majority of them do understand the system, and go with it.

It's only the usual (somewhat rare) idiot who isn't paying attention to what they are doing or the obnoxious jerk who thinks there is some rule to never show any courtesy for anyone else, tries to create a problem. Usually, you just go around them.

dc

[algover]

Bravo, Michael!!

[EddyQ]

I could see some validity to the "cutting in line" objection if bikes were splitting past one or two cars and then getting back into a car lane and staying there. But it's very rarely like that. When a rider decides to split, other things being equal, he generally continues until traffic opens up again.

 

So when does traffic open up again? Around here, often traffic is there because of a "bottle-neck". So, wouldn't lane splitting be "cutting in line" to the bottle-neck making it worse of a bottle-neck?

 

Don't get me wrong. If my state had legal lane sharing I would be there doing it. Though, I would not try to make it worse for drivers around me by squeezing into a bottle-neck. I would likely be working at getting off the highway and away from the backup and make the best of the situation in a fashion similar as you describe. However, I'm certain I would be alone with this manouver.

[leikam]

In my experience, the roadway through most bottlenecks has room for at least one lane of cars and a bike. I know the northeast has some extremely narrow lanes but it's rare that it's really down to a single car width. Yes, sometimes splitting does end with "cutting in line" but on the whole it relieves congestion.

 

When splitting is an option, you learn to see how much space there is between lanes. There's really quite a lot most of the time. It's an extra lane if you want to see it that way. I recently rode across town during peak commute traffic, splitting for the better part of 50 miles. Occasionally traffic would lighten up and I'd be in one lane or another but two miles down the road when it would back up again, I'd be back in the split.

[David13]

Natche described it. People don't know how to merge. If they did, the bottleneck would end faster.

dc

[4wheeldog]

Most of the time spent lane sharing is actually spent with one side or the other of the motorcycle next to an open spot in a lane. You do not have far to go to take up a space like any other vehicle. If you do not do it at a large speed variable, and exercise some manners, you do not inconvenience anyone, and, unless they are someone on the edge of a head explosion anyway, nobody gets upset. The folks that are already set to go off usually tip their hand, and are simple to avoid. Just sayin'.

[biggy]

I lived in Southern California for 20+ years and lane split whenever I could. It is a practice that I enjoyed and loved the time I saved. I would certainly favor a state ruling that would allow lane splitting in other states...

 

I moved to Colorado Springs four years ago and I quit riding to work because I couldn't lane split and I hated being 'trapped' amongst all of the cars and trucks...