Finished MSF ERC today -BMW's are awesome!

[cpayne]

I finished the Motorcycle safety foundation Enhanced Riders course ( A mandated requirement or you can't ride if your in the Army) The course is specifically for cruisers and touring bikes.)

All the bikes were chromed out cruisers Harley, Yamaha.

I have never really looked at any other bikes that closely. I was surprised that with all the bells,(literally Gremlin Bells) and whistles that there were no DC plugs.

Most of the guys were interested in my bike 2004 1150 RT-P. They wanted to see the features. ABS, Heated Grips, City Cases, Radio box, double battery, auto windscreen, Adjustable seat, Regular size and small DC outlets, Drive shaft center stand. You guys know.

My bike ruled in features and in slow speed handling drills and braking drills. I even got a nice bike comment at the shopette from a couple of people think a couple guys are going to be riding BMW's soon

 

[ka5ysy]

Congratulations on finishing the course, and convincing some of your fellow students to come to the light

[Francois_Dumas]

I second that

[motorman587]

Outstanding!!!

[Shaman97]

Congratulations on your course completion.

 

A mandated requirement or you can't ride if your in the Army

 

Is that at anytime, or just to ride on Base/Post?

[cpayne]

Congratulations on your course completion.

 

A mandated requirement or you can't ride if your in the Army

 

Is that at anytime, or just to ride on Base/Post?

 

Active-duty Soldiers, active Reserves and active Army National Guard are required to complete the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic Riders Course, offered for free on military installations, before operating a motorcycle.

 

The two-day course, sponsored by the Army Traffic Safety Training Program, teaches basic riding fundamentals such as turning, stopping and balancing.

The Advanced course and Sport bike courses must be completed within 1 year of the basic course or you can't ride on or off base. Everyone is kind of ticked off. This has been a regulation since 2009 updated in 2010 and Commanders are now getting pinched to enforce this. The problem is not every base offers every class. Example Fort Lee only has Basic and Enhanced/Advanced but no sport bike. This means Soldiers on Fort lee with Sport bikes have to find another base that offers the Sport Bike course in rider to ride.

 

Currently refresher of ERC and SPort Bike will be required every 3 years. There is talk of making it every year.

The sad thing is that in the classroom portion of BRC there are unused Simulators (BMW Tupperware) and video screens. Cost 100,000 each to procure and install and they have never been used and will be sold. Fort Lee has 3 http://www.livbit.com/article/2008/12/19/ef-bike-motorcycle-simulator/

 

http://simulatorsystems.com/vehiclesimulators/cruiserbike/

 

As a taxpayer I'm furious, but I'm looking for the auction as it would be great in the man cave if the price is right.

 

[Shaman97]

It seems the military has been trying everything they can to stop/inhibit personnel from riding motorcycles.

 

I was active Navy in the '70's, and the base/ship CO's were blatantly anti-motorcycle. Then they placed apparel restrictions, and now they are putting requirements on motorcyclists on and off base?

 

I know their motivations, but it reeks of nannyism.

[Paul Mihalka]

On one side it is nannyism, but there is the other side. I sell BMW bikes, but the same shop sells Ducati and Yamaha too. It is so common to get customers who are young military, fresh back from some far away post, feeling their oats, with a bank account with the money they didn't spend, and they want to have the fastest meanest thing they can get. The S1000RR is high on their list. Experience? They rode some small bike 3 years ago.

[Boffin]

It seems the military has been trying everything they can to stop/inhibit personnel from riding motorcycles.

 

I was active Navy in the '70's, and the base/ship CO's were blatantly anti-motorcycle. Then they placed apparel restrictions, and now they are putting requirements on motorcyclists on and off base?

 

I know their motivations, but it reeks of nannyism.

 

How much does it cost to train these young men and women? How much is their life worth? To me it smells of protecting their investment and their family.

 

Andy

 

[BailyD]

It seems the military has been trying everything they can to stop/inhibit personnel from riding motorcycles.

 

I was active Navy in the '70's, and the base/ship CO's were blatantly anti-motorcycle. Then they placed apparel restrictions, and now they are putting requirements on motorcyclists on and off base?

 

I know their motivations, but it reeks of nannyism.

 

My partner and I had investigated some serious MC crashes involving servicemen and their motorcycles. We spoke with some Navy Investigators who told us they were trying to curb a very high percentage of injuries/deaths of their personnel due to MC crashes. I suppose they do not want their investments damaged before the service can get their money's worth out of them. Lots of servicemen around here, almost always very good guys who tend to listen respectfully when stopped.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

The sad thing is that in the classroom portion of BRC there are unused Simulators (BMW Tupperware) and video screens. Cost 100,000 each to procure and install and they have never been used and will be sold. Fort Lee has 3 http://www.livbit.com/article/2008/12/19/ef-bike-motorcycle-simulator/

 

http://simulatorsystems.com/vehiclesimulators/cruiserbike/

 

Cool - I wonder if it properly simulates countersteering.

[ka5ysy]

I teach Riders Edge classes at the local Harley dealership. We have done a number of military-only classes to meet the DoD requirement for an MSF card. Everyone who takes the classes, including longtime riders, says that they learn stuff that can save their life, and that is the whole point of the exercise.

 

While it seems that this is a "Big Brother" situation, remember that today's military is much smaller that most anytime in modern history, and each active and reserve member is a precious asset, both to the military and the individual members of his or her unit. Giving new riders required proper training saves lives and injuries that are unnecessary. Think of the change in statistics if the civilian population had that requirement.

 

I am a veteran, and am always honored to be able to teach the current members these techniques.

 

[Rougarou]

It seems the military has been trying everything they can to stop/inhibit personnel from riding motorcycles.

 

I was active Navy in the '70's, and the base/ship CO's were blatantly anti-motorcycle. Then they placed apparel restrictions, and now they are putting requirements on motorcyclists on and off base?

 

I know their motivations, but it reeks of nannyism.

 

Regulations that govern military members do not stop at the front gate. Whether they, or anyone believes it or not, you are a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine, 24 hours a day, not just 0530-1630 and those regs cover you until that DD214 is in your hand.

[MikeB60]

The sad thing is that in the classroom portion of BRC there are unused Simulators (BMW Tupperware) and video screens. Cost 100,000 each to procure and install and they have never been used and will be sold. Fort Lee has 3 http://www.livbit.com/article/2008/12/19/ef-bike-motorcycle-simulator/

 

http://simulatorsystems.com/vehiclesimulators/cruiserbike/

 

Cool - I wonder if it properly simulates countersteering.

 

Been on those things several times, not a fan. They are designed to countersteer but they are nearly impossible for most experienced riders to operate, in fact, for me they are frustrating as hell. BMW controls and software based on R850. Those things just don't respond to inputs as an experienced rider would expect. The Honolulu PD, who have ridden R series BMWs for years, hated the thing. I have seen some experienced riders get on the simulator and take-off but that was generally the exception. Some of the RiderCoaches used them for new riders who had trouble with the clutch friction zone and other basic functions. New riders can adjust fairly quick to the simulator as they don't know how actual motorcycles respond to inputs.

 

I know some guys who figured out how to ride the simulator and other RiderCoaches who think they were of some benefit. Personally, I think it fails the first test of simulation: the simulator requires different inputs from the machine the simulator is built to simulate. Bunch of reasons the Army is getting rid of them but overall it was a good effort which didn't work out.

[RockBottom]

The past few years more Marines were lost in motorcycle accidents than in combat so the focus on safety makes sense.

 

Carlisle Barracks also has simulator that I don't think has ever been used.

[Jaguar]

I took the ERC about ten years ago. I'm ready to do it again. I learned so much at the last course that I still remember and use on my daily riding today.

[RockBottom]

I take what is now called the BRC2 (formerly the ERC) every year. I take it at the local Harley dealer so that's what most of the other students ride. The coaches gush about my stopping and maneuverability and I tell them it's not me, it's the machine.

[cpayne]

The one thing the coach recommended was that I disable the ABS. TO learn traditional braking. I agree. IF I get to used to ABS bad braking habits may creep in. I know I have relied on ABS several times and it saved my bacon. Does anyone know how to turn it off on 1150RT? I would think it would be the same for most BMWs . If there is a way to easily turn it on/off without damage, I would practice quick stops etc with no ABS to get familiar with the bikes stopping without it.

 

 

[Boffin]

It is not possible to disable the ABS on the R1150RT without also loosing the servos, which requires delving onto the guts of the bike to unplug the ABS unit. You will _not_ like residual braking - no feel and needing massively increased lever pressure.

The braking with or without ABS feels exactly the same right up to the point of lock-up. Get used to finding that threshold - do not rely on ABS, it is there for when the unexpected happens. Practice braking harder and harder on consecutive runs until you eventually get the ABS actuating, then go back and try to brake just short of that - learn how that feels.

 

Andy

[BailyD]

I have also heard some instructors talk about disabling the ABS during training and I do not agree with it. The only real advantage would be to cause a tire lock up and learn what to do when that happens. You would have to purposely exceed the maximum threshold braking of your machine by over applying or applying on extremely slippery surfaces. Your ABS shouldn't really come on unless you do one of the above. In my opinion (you know how that works! no real training for an ABS equipped machine would occur.

[Shaman97]

If you are using the bike you will likely ride the most during the ERC, get used to the controls that machine has. Intentionally disabling a control you normally use makes no sense to me.

[cpayne]

If you are using the bike you will likely ride the most during the ERC, get used to the controls that machine has. Intentionally disabling a control you normally use makes no sense to me.

I was thinking if the ABS goes out. It would be good to know what the bike feels like either way.

[ka5ysy]

If you are using the bike you will likely ride the most during the ERC, get used to the controls that machine has. Intentionally disabling a control you normally use makes no sense to me.

I was thinking if the ABS goes out. It would be good to know what the bike feels like either way.

 

I really disagree with the coach that told you to disable a system. Never disable any safety system. The T-CLOCKS checklist that is performed as the first thing in an ERC is looking for stuff not working, so a disabled ABS disqualifies the bike instantly as a failed system.

 

I suspect he was actually trying to say that practice with threshold braking is a good thing.

 

In reality, you can do that with the ABS active. If you feel or the ABS pulsing, you will know you have exceeded threshold and ABS just saved a drop.

 

One thing you really need to try is see what the ABS actually does by doing a full ABS stop straight ahead. It is like dropping anchor, and really is a cool thing to have when you really need it. There will be no excitement other than your eyes will feel like they are going to pop out when the bike stops right now. I did one on my RT and it stops in 110 feet from 60mph. Fantastic system. Wow !

[cpayne]

If you are using the bike you will likely ride the most during the ERC, get used to the controls that machine has. Intentionally disabling a control you normally use makes no sense to me.

I was thinking if the ABS goes out. It would be good to know what the bike feels like either way.

 

I really disagree with the coach that told you to disable a system. Never disable any safety system. The T-CLOCKS checklist that is performed as the first thing in an ERC is looking for stuff not working, so a disabled ABS disqualifies the bike instantly as a failed system.

 

I suspect he was actually trying to say that practice with threshold braking is a good thing.

 

In reality, you can do that with the ABS active. If you feel or the ABS pulsing, you will know you have exceeded threshold and ABS just saved a drop.

 

One thing you really need to try is see what the ABS actually does by doing a full ABS stop straight ahead. It is like dropping anchor, and really is a cool thing to have when you really need it. There will be no excitement other than your eyes will feel like they are going to pop out when the bike stops right now. I did one on my RT and it stops in 110 feet from 60mph. Fantastic system. Wow !

 

The coach wanted to know id we could disable ABS. He mentioned some bikes have a special sequence that can turn the ABS on/off . I have also heard others in other forums speak of taking ailing ABS units out of service and keep riding.

 

[azccj]

I've disabled the ABS on my 04 RT once just to see how it felt without the servos. I found a nearly deserted piece of straight road, got the bike up to 70 mph, then turned the key to the off position. I was surprised that I could very quickly stop the bike using both the front and rear residual/non-power braking. It takes more pressure on the lever and pedal but no drama involved. Suggest those with I-ABS give it a try just to feel the difference between power and residual braking, so if the servos do go out you'll know what to expect.

[ragtoplvr]

Survival when things go wrong is from either blind luck or training. I prefer training. Of course we want training that does not drop the bike.

 

Do the training with the ABS on. Then on your own do some training with the engine off, so if you abs were to fail when you need it most, you have a chance. I just accelerate some and turn it off in my long driveway. I do this about once a week. Almost took out the garage door the first time. There is a big increase in needed pressure. But now it is no issue. Hopefully if it ever fails, it will be no issue for me.

 

Rod

[Pat Buzzard]

We are mandated to wear helmet, gloves, and boots that go over the ankle. All of these I feel are reasonable requirements. PLUS THE UGLY GREEN BELT! I hate the green belt. I have always operated under the assumption that I am invisible anyways. If they miss the brightly lit bike, and my highly visible attire is a freaking belt going to make a difference?