rear end flange

[Jaguar]

I've been reading about the problems with the rear end flange. I've got an '07 R1200R with just over 30,000 miles on it. There are no visible signs of cracks or any other damage to the flange. My wife and I are riding two up to the MOA National in Missouri in July, and that flange will will be front and center on my mind the minute I pull out of the driveway. I'm thinking about just replacing it before I leave and being done with it.

Am I overly concerned with this or should I bite the bullet and just replace it now?

[Paul Mihalka]

On my '05 R1200GS the flange was cracked and was replaced at 160K miles.

[marcopolo]

I had the final drive on my '06 RT replaced on a long two-up road trip in July 2007. The splines on the flange and the wheel hub of the FD wore each other away, resulting in no "friction fit" whatsoever between those two parts. The fix was a new FD (complete with new flange, of course). Since that time, it's been tight as a drum. I've also checked as recently as last week for the cracks you referred to and found none. I have the old style flange, by the way. I have done many thousands of miles two-up since I had the FD replaced. As long as it's secure, i.e., no wobbles etc., and I see no cracks, I will not replace it "just in case", and I'll be at the UnRally with my wife this summer. I check it on a regular basis. That said, I am replacing my fuel pump controller next week, "just in case".

[Huzband]

You're overly concerned. Cracks in the flange are clearly visible. If you can't see them, they aren't there.

[Jaguar]

If you can't see them, they aren't there.

 

I agree Danny. I'm comfortable with that here, riding locally. My concern is being out on the road, with the extra stress on the FD with two up and loaded with gear, and the excessive miles of daily touring.

[lkraus]

I've seen plenty of reports of flange cracks. It seems they are usually found while doing other work, or maybe you hear of a crack on another bike and make a point of checking yours. Has anyone had an actual flange failure? That is, has the brake disc actually broken loose from the wheel?

[Huzband]

If you can't see them, they aren't there.

 

I agree Danny. I'm comfortable with that here, riding locally. My concern is being out on the road, with the extra stress on the FD with two up and loaded with gear, and the excessive miles of daily touring.

 

My point is if it were going to crack, it already would have. Besides, what are you gonna do? Pull the rear wheel off at every gas stop & look at the flange? Of course not.

 

Relax & enjoy your trip.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course you could always rent a Harley & trailer it to the rally.

[dirtrider]

Morning lkraus

 

I have seen a couple of pictures of serious flange failures.

 

My friend had the rear brake rotor come completely disconnected from the flange when the rotor mount flange ear ends snapped off. Bike was still controllable but made a lot of noise. We were running hard off-road & he through it was as ABS issue so just kept riding until it got real loud & locked up.

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

My concern is being out on the road, with the extra stress on the FD with two up and loaded with gear, and the excessive miles of daily touring.

 

The cracks commonly happen at the bolt holes where the brake rotor attaches. The brake rotor isn't particularly stressed any more greatly when riding 2-up, unless you're really getting aggressive with the brakes. My experience has been that when I ride 2-up I'm trying to give my passenger a more sedate ride, so I tend to be less aggressive with the brakes.

 

There have been cases (possibly a single case?) where the flange cracked at the wheel bolt holes, but I believe this was attributed to overtorquing the bolts.

 

Since the cracks happen at the ends of the fingers where the rotor bolts are, the cracks are readily visible upon inspection. My recommendation (and my personal policy) is to visually inspect those areas every time I'm down there checking tire pressure.

[dirtrider]

Morning lkraus

 

This is almost exactly the same failure my friend had. This picture is from a different bike so there are at least 2 of them with rotor disconnect failures.

 

 

Flange Failure

[lkraus]

Morning lkraus

 

Flange Failure

 

Looks serious enough to me...

Adding it to the list of things to worry about.

[CoarsegoldKid]

 

 

Looks serious enough to me...

Adding it to the list of things to worry about.

 

After 84500 miles my flange looks fine. Tomorrow it could all end in tears along with the FPC and the FD. Still I smile, no erection I have a Mayer saddle, every time I ride the RT and I don't worry. Live is too short.

Just carry a FPC for insurance.

[Jaguar]

The cracks commonly happen at the bolt holes where the brake rotor attaches. The brake rotor isn't particularly stressed any more greatly when riding 2-up, unless you're really getting aggressive with the brakes.

 

Thanks Mitch. I'm not a usually heavy on the brakes. And, I'm a much more conservative rider with the Mrs. on the back. This helps put it all in perspective and not be concerned with it. I do bend down and look at it regularly, it's very visible on the R1200R.

So, now reading these posts. I'm totally in the dark about the fuel pump controller. Someone care to enlighten me?

[David13]

Enlightenment:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=765042&page=1

[Alfred02]

Thought I was in the clear as I checked the flange to disk.

No such luck, found a crack at one of the "wheel" flange bolt holes.

Is the new steel version also suitable for the 2005 RT?

[Jaguar]

Thanks for the enlightenment. I've been all over the web studying the FPC. Unlike the RT's or GS's, the R bikes FPC is sitting perpendicular to the ground, so sitting water is not an issue. But, failure is still an issue. I might buy a new, improved unit and install it and carry the working original as a spare.

One more question I have is about the fuel filter, since it's sitting right there under the tank. My bike is an "07 with just over 30,000 miles, and it's the original filter. Am I due for a new one?

[dirtrider]

----

One more question I have is about the fuel filter, since it's sitting right there under the tank. My bike is an "07 with just over 30,000 miles, and it's the original filter. Am I due for a new one?

 

Morning Russ

 

I just looked in my service information for the 1200R & didn't find a fuel filter replacement interval. (maybe call your BMW dealer for their recommendation)

 

The hexhead 1200RT doesn't even use a standard replaceable fuel filter.

 

So if you go by the older 1150 service information (that used an in-the-tank fuel filter) the filter service interval was 24,000 miles.

 

My personal take on replacing fuel filters (in just about any vehicle) is-- if you use clean fuel then a decent sized filter should last for almost ever. If you put just one tank of contaminated fuel through the filter it really should be replaced regardless of the mileage, service recommendation, or time/miles on the filter.

 

Personally, I just run every new vehicle up to maximum speed just to see how fast it will go. Then occasionally re-run the max speed test to check the fuel filter. If a vehicle will easily run out to top speed then the fuel filter is still passing plenty of fuel through it's media.

 

[w2ge]

DR Quote: Personally, I just run every new vehicle up to maximum speed just to see how fast it will go. Then occasionally re-run the max speed test to check the fuel filter. If a vehicle will easily run out to top speed then the fuel filter is still passing plenty of fuel through it's media.

 

 

sounds like an "italian" tune-up

[Jaguar]

Thanks DR, you confirmed my assumption. Just going by it's size, I figured I would run it a little longer. Looking at it under the tank, I'd say it's about 2" diameter by 3" long, which is pretty hefty, and BMW wants $32.00 plus change for a new one.

Plus, I find it strange not to find a service schedule for the fuel filter on any of BMW's maintenance pages.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

This helps put it all in perspective and not be concerned with it. I do bend down and look at it regularly, it's very visible on the R1200R.

 

FWIW, this is standard practice in commercial aviation. Planes develop cracks in important parts as they age - it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. The maintenance crew's job is to perform regular inspections and identify/repair those cracks before they become big enough to cause catastrophic failure.

 

Same thing on your bike. Several people have posted reports of cracked flanges that have not yet catastrophically failed in service; that means that as long as you're performing regular inspections, you're likely to identify cracks before the whole thing falls apart at highway speed.

[Paul Mihalka]

Thought I was in the clear as I checked the flange to disk.

No such luck, found a crack at one of the "wheel" flange bolt holes.

Is the new steel version also suitable for the 2005 RT?

I have the new style flange on my '05 R1200GS, so it should fit a '05 R1200RT.

[Alfred02]

Hi Paul, sorry to harp, but is yours the steel one now???

[Jaguar]

Thought I was in the clear as I checked the flange to disk.

No such luck, found a crack at one of the "wheel" flange bolt holes.

Is the new steel version also suitable for the 2005 RT?

 

I think there was a thread around with a link to file a complaint with the government. Personally, I feel BMW should recall and replace these flanges. If the government receives enough complaints, they can mandate a recall. Here is the link to file a complaint.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

[Paul Mihalka]

Yup, This is the flange that is on my bike now. To install it you also need a spacer ring, the new one is thinner than the old aluminum one. Part numbers: flange 33 11 7 722 831, ring 33 11 8 521 832.

 

 

[Alfred02]

Thanks for the quick reply Paul :-)

Time to do some price hunting.

Never being somebody to do things half assed, I will also get a new rear brake disk, rear brake pads and all new bolts around..wheel and disk bolts.

Just had a ride today with new rubbers (PR3's) and the bike is worth the cost and hassle. I can see myself riding this bike for a long time to come, as the next bike will be the watercooled boxer, but it will be the 2nd/3rd generation version as I prefer not to be their gynni pig .

So this one will be around for a while.

I have put the parts numbers in my IPhone for easy access.

 

[Alfred02]

think there was a thread around with a link to file a complaint with the government. Personally, I feel BMW should recall and replace these flanges. If the government receives enough complaints, they can mandate a recall. Here is the link to file a complaint.

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/index.xhtml

 

Jaguar

In everybody but my case, this might be appropriate.

The difference in my case is that those wheel bolts were waaaaay too tight done up by the previous owner.

As I did not find any corrosion nor dirt/damaged threads that could explain the tightness when undoing, it's without a doubt that they were done up to 100Nm+, going from what 60Nm felt like when bolting on the wheel with a torque wrench.

The bike is now out of the dealers 3 months warranty, plus I prefer to do this work myself as I have the tools and access to any tool I don't have myself.

I have learned from my previous 1150RT that certain critical work has to be done by yourself, if you want it done "right".

 

Since I purchased the bike 2nd hand (although from a dealer), I except that there would be some possible issues like this.

If this is the worse there is to come, then I am happy with that.

 

Thank you for the link anyway, I am sure it will come in handy for other riders with rear wheel flange issues.

[Jaguar]

The bike is now out of the dealers 3 months warranty, plus I prefer to do this work myself as I have the tools and access to any tool I don't have myself.

I have learned from my previous 1150RT that certain critical work has to be done by yourself, if you want it done "right".

 

All you're doing on this website is filing the complaint. You don't hand the bike over to anybody. You're still doing all the wrenching yourself.

[David13]

Yes Jaggie, I agree that Alfred should file his complaint.

But he will have to do so in Australia. Not with nhtsa which is for American bikes. I have seen the link for the Australian complaints.

dc

[Alfred02]

I finally got the flange and the spacer.

Is there any updated procedure for installation?

Different preheat requirements?

Which way does the spacer ring go, etc, etc....?

[dirtrider]

Morning Alfred

 

I haven't seen an updated install procedure but you really should talk to your dealer about any (NEW) info they might have regarding the new steel flange installation.

 

I have only done one of the new flanges & on that one heated the original flange (using a small torch) until it would start moving with my hub puller (I have no idea how hot as I just heated until it would move).

 

To reinstall the new steel flange & spacer I installed the spacer with the locating pin in one of the axle splines & the larger sealing side towards the axle seal. Then heated the new steel flange in an oven until about 250°F (120°c). It then slid right on the cleaned axle splines.

 

I have no idea if that spacer you have is the same or updated so you really should call your dealer to verify how it installs.

 

[Alfred02]

Thanks D.R

 

The above should be enough info.

In this specific case, approaching my dealer is not an option (from my side).

After having talked to their Master Technician who:

 

1) Had never heard or seen "ever" a wheel flange with cracks and I shouldn't believe anything on the "Internet"

 

2) That there was no such thing as a "new" type of wheel flange"

 

3) That it simply could not be done by a "Do it yourself-er" and that it required special tools that had to be borrowed/booked, as just one single tool existed for all BMW dealers in the State.

 

Another discussion (at which the Tech got involved "again", that there was no updated flange.....until I showed it to them on their "own" BMW parts computer, which also clearly spelled out that the new type flange had to be installed in conjunction with the spacer ring.

BMW Australia, who didn't know anything about the "new" flange type and had to check back with BMW Germany.

(No wonder the parts guy was left in a state of doubt)

It took a week to get the verification from Germany that yes, there was a new flange and it was steel.

The parts finally arrived ordered directly from Germany via BMW Australia.

 

I am not cross with my dealer as they did resolve my ESA problem at next to no cost to me by being able to install the upgraded software/firmware correctly, compared to others who had a lot of parts replaced at considerable cost to them.

 

On the other hand.

It's a real concern to me when BMW Australia and the BMW mechanics aren't aware of upgraded parts and procedures, even if it stares them right in the face on their own BMW computer.

 

Their brake fluid flush left me with a paint peeling leak on the front brake-fluid reservoir lid.

 

While the parts guys have all been great by keeping me up to date for when parts were expected to arrive and when they arrived, plus also always tried to (successfully I might add) fight for me with BMW Australia to reduce the cost on more expensive parts.

 

Sorry for going off on a rant...:-)

I like to support my local business, but while one part of the business leaves me satisfied, even happy, the other side has now left me repeatedly with a foul taste in my mouth.

End of rant

[David13]

Not so much rant as ordinary truth.

So few people do their job well.

It's just a job to them.

And of course the service guys want to make it sound like they do something that no other human could.

It's their weird concept of job security.

Knowledge is the best weapon/defense.

If there is one opinion on the web, that is one thing. But if there are 100 concordant opinions, that should look like truth, even to the service tech.

dc

[Buckster]

I'm waiting on the new steel flange 33 11 7 722 831 (and spacer) to arrive to replace my cracked one.

However the parts fiche shows 2 different wheel bolts:

36 31 7 673 903 M10x40 for cut threads

36 31 7 694 568 M10x43 for threaded sleeve

I measured my original wheel bolts as 40mm long. Max BMW was unable to tell me which wheel bolt should be used with the new steel flange. I ordered the longer bolts in case I need them.

Does anyone know which is the correct bolt?

TIA, Buck

[Alfred02]

Wow Buck

I never saw that.

Going from logic and since nobody else mentioned an issue, I assume the original bolt should be fine as per design.

We ordered my flange specific using my VIN number and the steel flange (option as it also shows the old aluminum one)that showed with the spacer.

The spacer fills the gap between the flange and the final drive, so there isn't a change in distance between the flange and the wheel itself.

I am just thinking out loud, haven't proven the above theory as I still haven't done mine.

 

So far the hair-crack has not opened up at all, despite that I have done two up and ridden the bike very hard through the mountains just last weekend, to the point of scraping the RHS footpeg pin.

I have the flange, new rear brake disk and brake pads sitting here, but prefer to wear out the old pad/disk a bit further before replacing it all.

The rear disk is on 4.66mm, so still has 0.16mm left, while the rear pads are like new.

[Buckster]

WARNING WARNING WARNING

Have dealer install new flange

read further for details

 

Well here is my flange install nightmare.

My cracked flange.

]cracked flange[/url]

 

Received the new steel flange and spacer along with the longer wheel bolts

]old and new flanges[/url]

I did measure the old and new flanges with my digital (but cheap) micrometer.

The old flange was 36.01 mm thick

22.08 mm thick at the wheel bolt holes

10.14 mm thick at the brake disc holes

 

The new flange was 20.93 mm thick + the new spacer 15.15 mm thick = 36.08 mm

21.0 mm thick at the wheel bolt holes

10.38 mm thick at the brake disc holes

 

Since I didn't not have the BMW specialty puller to remove the old flange, I made one from a 1/4" piece of steel plate. After removing the snap ring retainer, the old flange sat about 1/2" below the splined hollow shaft. So I drilled the plate to align with the wheel bolt holes and used the wheel bolts to draw the flange off.

]puller 1[/url] ]puller 2[/url]

I used a thin washer to protect the wheel bolt surface as much as possible from the sharp edge of the hole in the plate.

]wheel bolt with washer[/url]

 

I tightened 2 of the wheel bolts thru the improved puller, not extremely tight but enough to slightly bow the 1/4" plate. I started heating the flange using a propane torch particularily in the web areas between the wheel bolt holes. Shortly the bow seemed to lessen so I tightened the bolts and the flange pulled off level to the end of the splined hollow shaft. I heated the flange a little more and was able to wiggle it loose with a few taps from a small hammer. After removing the wheel bolts, I found a small groove in the tightening surface of the bolts.

I later used a rotary wire brush to clean up the small burrs.

]damaged wheel bolt[/url]

I cleaned the splines using a small wire brush and carb cleaner.

]cleaned splines 1[/url]

]cleaned splines 2[/url]

 

While cleaning the splines, I heated the new flange in the oven at 260 degrees for about 30 mins. I installed the spacer aligning the small tab in one of the splines.

]spacer tab[/url]

I iced the spline area to contract them to aid in assembly. It was still warm from the old flange removal.

I retrieved the hot flange from the oven and slid it onto the splines. It seemed to stop early so I pulled it back off before it cooled and tightened. I returned the flange to the oven and raised the temp to 275 degrees and left it for 30+ mins. I again iced the splines while waiting.

I retrieved the now hotter flange and slid it onto the splices. It stopped about 1/2" from seating. I started heating the flange with the propane torch and tapping it with a hammer and brass drift. The flange continued to move slowly until its edge was flush with the edge of the splined shaft. At this point I was unable to remove the new flange with my improvised puller and decided to use a bigger hammer and seat to try to seat the flange. It did move about another 1/4" before stopping. It was still 1/4" from seating.

]incomplete install 1[/url]

]incomplete install 2[/url]

This is when I noticed the outer seal was leaking.

]leaking outer seal[/url]

I turned the flange and found that the drive was very notchy and much harder to turn compared to the smooth turning before. I realize that I had not taken DirtRider's warning about using excessive force seriously enough. I will say that I also had not taken DirtRider's advice to call the dealer on new installation procedure instructions.

So it is off to the dealer to determine if the drive is salvageable. Sure did not save myself any money on this project...

I believe that there is a machining issue on the new flange that prevented it from properly seating without excessive force. Can I prove it? No.

The flange and spacer were purchased from Max BMW and was in BMW packaging.

So my advice to anyone thinking of replacing their damaged flange is let the dealer do it and deal with any mismatch issue...

[Buckster]

Lone Star BMW master tech Mike Goff pulled my a$$ out of another ringer. Reset the crown bearing, installed a new seal and installed the steel flange correctly for less that $120!!!!

Now a new smaller problem has come up on the install on the swing arm pivot. The parts fiche and the Haynes manual both show a "ring gasket" on the inside (left) pivot pin. I got the ring gasket which is made of foam.

I don't remember seeing anything like that when I took it apart but admitdatly I was upset about the steel flange not seating and could have missed it. However when I install the drive on the swing arm pivot with the gasket ring and only hand tighten it(spec torque is 100nM)< the drive does not pivot freely. It will move by hand but stays where it stops. I took it apart and reassembled it without the gasket ring and it moves smoothly and freely. Also the pin bearing has its own seals on each side encased as part of the bearing.

I noticed that the fiche mentions the pivot pin notes only used in conjunction with gasket ring.

02 33 17 7 665 148 PIVOT PIN 0.21 1 $38.42

ONLY IN CONJUNCTION WITH :

-- 33 11 7 684 996 GASKET RING - 38X30X2,5 1 $2.24

But only one part number is noted for the pivot pin and it does not note to be superceded.

Does anyone know about this gasket ring?

TIA Buckster

 

[Alfred02]

Does anybody know or has an updated Manufacturer installation procedure for the newer type steel flange?