KMG_365 Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I just finished up my 96,000 mile service on Maynard ( . . . at 99,000 miles! Oooops! ). I have to admit that I have been skipping the valves and synch on the last few services because they hadn't changed in the preceeding 20,000 miles when I was still being pretty anal about being thorough. Needless to say the "remodel-from-hell that refuses to die" has changed my priorities a wee bit! So, after not adjusting the valves for something like 40,000 miles and not bothering with the synch, I noticed a bit of rough idling about a month ago. Then I got a bad batch of gas and it really ran like crap. It wouldn't idle in the recent cold (temps in the 40's in the mornings--even with the fast-idle on), and it stalled at the first few stop lights on the way to the freeway (almost dropped it once splitting to the front! ). I ran it almost dry and filled with some good Chevron and it ran MUCH better so I thought I had it licked. But these small vacuum leak problems can come on so slowly that you forget how much better the bike can run when you fix them! I had been taking a few weeks getting Maynard finished up and when a friend invited me to an evening concert down by the beach during the Christmas bustle (parking nightmare in La Jolla), and Maynard was still sitting naked in the cold garage (I know, I'm a lousy father! ), Leslie offered to let me take "Arianrhod" since I would likely need to lane-split the last few miles and parking would be a bitch. Now those boxers really love that cold, wet night air anyway, but woweee! Okay, now I KNOW something is really not right with Maynard and I've got to fix it! So after about 40,000 miles I found the top two exhaust valves on both sides were about identically slightly snug and the rest were still PERFECT! So, since I'm being thorough now, I backed them both off just a tad and had both sides dialed in in about 2 minutes (even using the "actual" timing mark in the inspection hole! ). I also got some new tubing and some ATF to re-do my home-made manometer going from the 1/4" I.D tubing to a 2.5' high section of 3/8" I.D. tubing almost half-filled with ATF to help with damping the idle ocillations. That, combined with the heavier ATF (I had been using dampers and colored water previously) really worked like the bomb--that is when I finally found and solved the problem that is at the crux of this post. When I first hooked it up and fired Maynard up, the ATF started climbing up one side . . . and didn't stop! Uh Oh!! So I switched sides to see if it was the bike or the new manometer and fired him up again: and now it crawled up the other side! Rats! The leak looked to be on the right side as the left seemed to have developed an appetite for ATF! I also noticed the R/H cam cover and whole lower R/H cylinder was caked in an oily, dusty crust So I replaced the R/H cam cover O-ring and took off the TB's on both sides to check them out more thoroughly. I was surprised to find no real gunk on the butterfly valve or really anywhere in the TB. The O-rings on the LBBS's were a little dried looking and were not available separately. I guess I could've taken them to the hardware store and sized them, but the screws were in stock at my local (for only $6.00 or so) and I figured I've gotten my money's worth out of them anyway! The O-rings around the fuel injectors also looked a bit dry but they were NOT in stock, so I just cleaned them off, lubed them a bit and reinserted them. But then I found some oily crud on the bottom of the R/H TB rear clamp! Aha! Actually the O-rings themselves between the TB's and the intake tubes on BOTH sides seemed to be 1/4" too long to ever hope to be replaced once removed! So I replaced those O-rings on both sides (again, in stock and only a few dollars each from my local dealer). I also checked out the rubber bushings against the cylinders as well as the ones the air intake tubes insert into in the air box and all seemed soft and supple. I cleaned up all the connections carefully (including where the throttle cable ferrules sit in the barrel bolt adjusters), slightly lubed up the new TB O-rings to make sure they didn't pop out of their slots on re-assembly, and double-checked everything again as I buttoned it all back up. I started the synch again with the new LBBS's backed out 1.5 turns and fired him up. The ATF found a way-off-level, but stayed there! Then I realized I had previously totally screwed up the R/H throttle cable trying to get the synch, and after about 2-3 turns back, he locked right in and the synch itself took only minutes. I never got to the "spray some flammable aerosol (WD-40, starter fluid, etc.) on the joints to check for a change in idle speed" trick. I just figured since I'd never had the TB's apart in almost 100,000 miles that it was probably time to replace the rubber parts that would be getting a bit dry and hard. For those of you looking for a winter-time project this is pretty easy and really seems to have worked well. I don't know if both sides have been leaking slightly for awhile now or whether it was just the large side-to-side differential that made me go looking deeper, but I took Maynard to work yesterday and the old "zip" is back! Link to comment
Uggles Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 Thanks for the insight. I will have to get around to doing my own wrenching one of these days. Just ticked over 50k kM! Link to comment
Dr Klawn Posted December 12, 2005 Share Posted December 12, 2005 I had some similar problems. With about tens years of aging, the rubber pieces can start to break down due to weathering, etc. I had a vacuum leak that I couldn't pin-point until I read the report on replacing the rubber intake "boot" from the TB's into the head. I replaced those last spring and it solved the problem - they were all cracked badly from the inside. Also did the "cannisterectomy" which removed some cracked / crazed vacuum lines as well. It now holds a sync very well (long past the service interval). Link to comment
Lone_RT_rider Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 I have replaced all the o-rings and both rubber manifolds and tried to do a TBS with the same style of home made manometer with no luck. It's still a very hit or miss operation for me. I don't know if I will ever get the knack of doing a TBS. Shawn Link to comment
DavidEBSmith Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Were those the large-diameter skinny o-rings? When I changed the intake tubes many miles ago, those were stretched way out of shape at about 30K. They're like rubber bands, I can see how they'd dry out and leak. Link to comment
KMG_365 Posted December 13, 2005 Author Share Posted December 13, 2005 Were those the large-diameter skinny o-rings?This thread is no good without . . . part numbers!! Yes, the ones behind the TB's between the TB's and the intake tubes. On my 2003 R1150RT the part number for the: TB/air intake O-rings are: 13-54-1-341-797. I also replaced the LBBS's; part #: 13-54-1-342-074. The leaky cam cover O-ring was part #: 11-12-1-341-784 (and while it was messy, I don't see how that could've contributed to a vacuum leak, but for $4.00 I replaced it anyway! ). The fuel injection O-rings I had to order (and will throw in during the next service) are part #: 13-64-1-437-474. ----- Hey Lone-rider-dude! I can't believe that Mitch hasn't gotten you all dialed-in on a good TB synch procedure for your 1100 by now!? Should we do a TB-synch Tech Daze at the UnRally in June?? We'll probably be working on Mitch's bike anyway after he gets it towed the rest of the way in! Link to comment
russell_bynum Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 We'll probably be working on Mitch's bike anyway after he gets it towed the rest of the way in! OUCH!! That's gonna leave a mark! Link to comment
Haynes Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Difficult diagnosis. Easy fix. If I buy any o-rings, I go to a local sop that sells o-rings and seals of all sizes and materials. I always ask for the most suitable type of material for the chemical protection required. Hopefully, I get a longer or more reliable life from the o-rings. Link to comment
tallman Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Dang, gotta get new glasses. Thought this was about vacuum cleaners and wenches. Good catch on the leak. Link to comment
USAF1 Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Thank goodness for ZIP!! Where'd we be if we had none?? Pat Link to comment
bmweerman Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Dang, gotta get new glasses. Thought this was about vacuum cleaners and wenches. Not only are y'all some damn fine mechanics but pretty good comedians too!! That's funny Link to comment
Lone_RT_rider Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 Hey Lone-rider-dude! I can't believe that Mitch hasn't gotten you all dialed-in on a good TB synch procedure for your 1100 by now!? Should we do a TB-synch Tech Daze at the UnRally in June?? We'll probably be working on Mitch's bike anyway after he gets it towed the rest of the way in! I have asked Mitch a couple of times to watch me go through a TBS to see what I might be doing differently than him, we just never got around to it (Please don't send me a round to-it). I had the pleasure of switching bikes with Mitch in MN durring the Ely trip last August and it was like riding a motorcycles from a completely different manufacturer. His sync was so butter smooth that I didn't even feel like I was riding a boxer at all. I am sure his fingers are still vibrating from the 20 minutes he spent on my bike. Shawn Link to comment
tallman Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Hey Lone-rider-dude! I can't believe that Mitch hasn't gotten you all dialed-in on a good TB synch procedure for your 1100 by now!? Should we do a TB-synch Tech Daze at the UnRally in June?? We'll probably be working on Mitch's bike anyway after he gets it towed the rest of the way in! I have asked Mitch a couple of times to watch me go through a TBS to see what I might be doing differently than him, we just never got around to it (Please don't send me a round to-it). I had the pleasure of switching bikes with Mitch in MN durring the Ely trip last August and it was like riding a motorcycles from a completely different manufacturer. His sync was so butter smooth that I didn't even feel like I was riding a boxer at all. I am sure his fingers are still vibrating from the 20 minutes he spent on my bike. Shawn, if he doesn't help you out, it's time to send him looking for a new job. Shawn Link to comment
lithoman Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Jamie, i really enjoyed that read! and you call yourself an armature wrench you could of fooled me!! good job with the diagnosis Link to comment
No_Twilight Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 I have replaced all the o-rings and both rubber manifolds and tried to do a TBS with the same style of home made manometer with no luck. It's still a very hit or miss operation for me. I don't know if I will ever get the knack of doing a TBS. Shawn Shawn, Jamie is obviously pretty good with a wrench. Home mande manometers can be a real PITA. If you're less experienced it will take you longer but the one place where you can't take too long is the TB sync because the bike will overheat. It is much easier with a twinmax and you an buy it for about what you would pay the dealer for one TB sync. Cheers,--Jerry Link to comment
Lone_RT_rider Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Jerry, Thanks for the heads up on the twinmax. I have one and have had it since the 6K service (78K on the bike now). It doesnt seem to produce any better results. I was concerned that the twinmax wasn't giving me the resolution that I might need to truly get a feel for what the engine was doing, that's when I built the manometer. After Xmas I am going to pull the tupperwear off and give it another go. We shall see..... Shawn Link to comment
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