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ESA Shocks!


GoldenK9

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It's been several years since I complained about the BMW ESA suspension on my '05 R1200RT, with a grand total of 16,800 miles on the odometer. Due to several health issues including 3 surgeries to my right wrist (from a klutz fall), a surgery to repair a torn right rotator cuff (another klutz fall) and a totally unexpected right hip replacement last August, I haven't gotten much riding in. Now that I can, and do, ride again it seems like those shocks are worse than ever. The bike rides like it has 100 lbs in the tires, even on 1 up comfort setting. I can't really tell much difference on any setting. Back in '08 the entire suspension was upgraded to the newer ('07 onward) type. Still not much difference, at all. Am I the only one out there having this problem? I love the bike! I hate the suspension. With all of my medical bills right now, I can't afford to step up to Wilber's for a while. Just thought I'd throw this out there. It's so frustrating. :cry:

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I've seen ads from a number of people on this forum who have upgraded their stock non-esa shocks with Wilbers, or ?, and the removed shocks appeared in the classified section for super good prices.

Place a WANT ad there and maybe someone has a stock non-esa set laying around the shop.

Good luck!

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Kenny, glad you're back on the road! To me, ESA was an expensive gimmick to cover up really cheap shocks that BMW put on their bikes. The latest RT ESA doesn't seem improved any, from my test rides. I pulled mine off at 1500 mi (bought the bike used) and installed Ohlins. Made it a different bike, controlled over rough patches, rides smooth with any load, and it tracks on a rail. Now Ohlins makes an ESA version - for about $3500 -- but just get any good brand shocks for $1600 and forget the ESA toy.

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1812.. Did you used to ride/race dirt-bikes? I say this cause this upper body is a dirt bike position, loads of lean, bike underneath you.

 

In the street...If your head was at least over the inside fork tube and preferably at least with the inside line of the windshield you bike would LEAN much less through these corners.. cleaner, faster. You would have far less lean, far less lateral forces...

 

Let alone moving your lower body towards the inside...

 

But, no doubt.. your not afraid to lean the bike!

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Yes I did race for some time and when I hit those patches of gravel it's easy to stand the bike up and ready for the next corner.

I can't help myself.....:)

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I went with ESA for my bike as I was hoping for better quality than the standard equipment shocks. I don't doubt that Ohlins are a good investment, but my ESA's seem to work well enough for now. I am now worried about my riding position. ;)

 

Geo7P3.jpg

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It's been several years since I complained about the BMW ESA suspension on my '05 R1200RT, with a grand total of 16,800 miles on the odometer. Due to several health issues including 3 surgeries to my right wrist (from a klutz fall), a surgery to repair a torn right rotator cuff (another klutz fall) and a totally unexpected right hip replacement last August, I haven't gotten much riding in. Now that I can, and do, ride again it seems like those shocks are worse than ever. The bike rides like it has 100 lbs in the tires, even on 1 up comfort setting. I can't really tell much difference on any setting. Back in '08 the entire suspension was upgraded to the newer ('07 onward) type. Still not much difference, at all. Am I the only one out there having this problem? I love the bike! I hate the suspension. With all of my medical bills right now, I can't afford to step up to Wilber's for a while. Just thought I'd throw this out there. It's so frustrating. :cry:

 

Sounds just like my '07 RT with ESA. Around 20K miles the ESA settings really didn't DO anything any longer. Except make the ride even harder in sport mode. What a joke. Traded it shortly thereafter on a 2010 R12GS.

 

Now, on my OTHER '07 RT which had non-ESA shocks, those babies were toast by 10K and I swapped them out for Ohlins. Now have about 40K on it and its a keeper with the Ohlins! Really transformed the handling. :thumbsup:

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better?

 

Not at all.

 

Around here that technique is called Cross Controling.

 

Draw a straight line through the middle of the the rear tire and tail light that extends up past your helmet.img_5831.jpg

You will find that the majority of your body is to the outside of the corner. Also hard to tell for sure but it looks like your elbows are a bit too straight. They should be looser.

As an example look at this image.

Note that my body is positioned to the inside of the corner.

Advance the frames to the side view and you will note loose elbows.

Also note the abundance of clearance under the bike.

I still have lots of lean angle left if needed.

 

Learn more here.

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If I may... also notice Erics feet.. his feet are positioned on the balls of his feet... with this, you can lift you body easily to shift your butt on the seat...as well as give your feet more clearance if you have to really lean the bike.

 

and regarding the elbows...(another point why it is good stuff) on hard braking, a big mistake is the STIFF arms that most riders do to keep their upper body from moving forward.. what this does is transfer even more weight onto the front end of the bike (and lightening the rear).. you want the body to rest of the tank, with loose arms to lessen the forward weight transfer.. not easy, but it will help on hard braking into a corner. (keeps the weight more in the center of the bike, stop faster)

 

After reading the link with using the elbows to steer, part of body positioning is the the inside shoulder should/would dip with proper countersteering... that is, in a left hand turn, left elbow/hand pushing the bars, the left should dipped, leading into the turn.. with rigid, body arms.. this doesn't happen.

 

I raced off-road for many years (Enduro's- Meteor Motoryclce Club, oldest continuous endure club in US, featured in most recent issue of AMA mag, btw :) so.. I've had to learn, change quite a bit for on-road riding.. so I feel ya' 1812... with the learned off-road upper body habits.

 

 

SORRY OFF-TOPIC... back to our regularly scheduled programming

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I appreciate all your help for the helpless!

I ride in SW WI more then any other area and gravel in corners abound like no other(not including riding gravel roads).

The photo's I posted are 3 years old and I have changed my ways by following Dean Lear around the Appalachia's. The roads there offer less gravel more smiles!:)

I hope my new Avatar is acceptable...:)

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Same bike as the original poster, 05 1200RT with ESA and 37000km on the clock (just purchased recently).

ESA works just fine.

Some posters seem to expect a bit too much. Comparing Ohlins, which most likely have been set up for their weight, to a bike that it produced in thousands where a middle ground has been chosen for millions of possible rider combinations.

 

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Same bike as the original poster, 05 1200RT with ESA and 37000km on the clock (just purchased recently).

ESA works just fine.

Some posters seem to expect a bit too much. Comparing Ohlins, which most likely have been set up for their weight, to a bike that it produced in thousands where a middle ground has been chosen for millions of possible rider combinations.

 

Alfred, its the damping circuits that wear out prematurely, not "too soft springs" which I think you are referring to. If yours works "just fine" with 20K+ miles, great, and I know others here have also had similar experience to yours. But many more have been very disappointed as I have. With ESA, if the spring sags too much, you can hit the pre-load button and correct for it; but when the rebound damping starts fading away, not much you can do. To be honest with you, the damping on my ESA bike started feeling piss-poor around 12K (it was my wife's bike) but I pretended it was fine, until (at 20K) she rebelled one day & just refused to ride it any longer. We then swapped bikes for the rest of that ride, and after that it was traded on the GS the next week. So I guess both of us expected too much. :dopeslap:

 

 

PS: as far as I812's riding posture, I think he's doing great and having fun, which is what its all about!! :clap: (but put the balls of your feet on the pegs though :grin: )

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Thanks Bernd, but I ordered my bike with the ESA option and love the convenience of not having to stop to adjust the suspension no matter how easy it is. I can't imagine having to disable this feature and go backwards in technology.

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Bingo, Bobbybob. You hit the nail right on the head. Preload adjustment works just fine. It's the dampening, or lack of it, that has gone away. I've owned my bike since new, and I know how it used to be. It's not that way now, nor was it the same as a new demo I rode a year or so ago. I know what I like, and what feels right to me. What I have now is NOT what a BMW, or any other bike, for that matter, should be like going down any road, good or bad. :S

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Bingo, Bobbybob. You hit the nail right on the head. Preload adjustment works just fine. It's the dampening, or lack of it, that has gone away. I've owned my bike since new, and I know how it used to be. It's not that way now, nor was it the same as a new demo I rode a year or so ago. I know what I like, and what feels right to me. What I have now is NOT what a BMW, or any other bike, for that matter, should be like going down any road, good or bad. :S

 

Golden, there is a more "cost effective" way of upgrading if you're moving away from ESA. For now, just replace the REAR shock with an Ohlins/etc. and reap about 85% of the benefits of a complete dual replacement--at least as far as your butt will know. I replaced my rear shock first with Ohlins on my 07 RT and then rode it a while before replacing the front. I was starting to wish I hadn't spent the money on a new front shock, it was just THAT much better. But finally I did replace the front also, and it was another notch up, so in the end its good to do them both. But you can "defer" the front replacement for a while and get that "new bike" feeling for 1/2 the cost. Try it! :clap:

 

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malcolmblalock

Golden, I'm like you; I like the ESA's ease of changing how the bike works, on the fly. I change mine frequently on a ride, depending on where I am at the moment, and my mood at that moment. ESA is a great option, IMO, for making those instantaneous decisions.

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Bob, Thanks for the info. I have used Ohlins extensively on Ducati bikes of various models and really enjoy the way they work. My problem is I don't want to have to fool around with a kabillion adjustments to try to get it to feel and ride like I like it to, when

all I have to do is push a button on the fly to suit the road conditions, my comfort level, or to just fool around with a button or control on a boring ride. I guess it comes from my flying days. You're always tinkering with the altimeter or trimming it up or something else. I think I'll probably go with Wilbers so I can still push the little button and watch the picture change on my dash, when I can see it over the reflection. Thanks again!

Ken :wave:

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Thanks SimonOO. I'm with you, I like to push the button just for the heck of it sometimes. See my previous post to Bob. After all,

I ordered it, I paid for it, might as well use it as I intended in the first place.

Life IS too short! Somebody is fooling around with the clock, I swear. Time seems to go by faster each day.

Ride Safe,

 

Ken :wave:

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Hey John, I appreciate your feedback, and as I've said in previous

postings on this subject, I love Ohlins, I don't love their price.

I like toys, therefore I have to play with them. I see Wilbers

ESA Conversions in my near future.

Ride Safe out there,

Ken

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malcolmblalock

FYI, Hyperpro also offers an ESA arrangement with their shocks. I own a set and are satisfied with them so far. Not on the bike now (sold old bike and haven't needed them installed yet on current bike). From Consumer Motorcycle News, the Hyperpros are essentially equal to Ohlins in one of their comparisons.

 

No affiliation or connection other than a customer.

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Wilbers does not rebuild the stock ESA Shocks, they build their own.

 

They, & HyperPro, use the stock lower end from the ESA shocks. They do, however, rebuild the internals, & everything from there up are their own products.

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Wilbers does not rebuild the stock ESA Shocks, they build their own.

 

They, & HyperPro, use the stock lower end from the ESA shocks. They do, however, rebuild the internals, & everything from there up are their own products.

Thanks for the info!

Steve

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One more thing. Be sure your ESA is set to Single rider Comfort mode before you remove it. If not, they have to cycle the rear shock motor to that mode via laptop before it can be rebuilt, & when you reinstall it your ESA won't work until it is reset, again via laptop with the correct software. Go ahead, ask me how I know. :Cool:

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Thanks Danny, you are absolutely correct, I just didn't go into

detail. Sorry to hear about Farley, I am well aware of the hurt you feel after losing 2 Golden's, Maggie and Taja.

 

Ken

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It scares me to think of the price of Ohlins ESA Shocks. I love

them, don't get me wrong, but when I was a Ducati dealer (Yamaha and

KTM also) they were a lot cheaper, especially if they came on the bike.

Ken

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OK Danny, Tell me you know because you're either a BMW Motorrad Tech,

or a motorcycle suspension expert? ;)

 

Ken

 

None of the above. I had it set on Two up Sport mode when I removed them. I didn't know better, & Herman forgot to tell me. He corrected the problem & apologized profusely. Not his fault.

 

Thanks for the condolences, Ken. It's been just over a year, & we still miss him terribly. But, we have a new addition of which I'll be posting in Other Topics real soon.

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Although I'm in Calif. and you're right there, I talked to Herman also, he's the one that promised me a great deal and gave me some good advice, when I'm ready.

Another Golden, I hope?

Ken

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You're the first person I've heard that likes Works shocks. Glad they're working for you.

 

I bought them after another inmate's write up and install pictorial here. I've heard of one person who had issues, not with the shocks themselves, but with getting the system to recognize the ESA once installed again. I think that issue has been covered already by another poster.

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I've owned BMW's since 1978 and attended quite a few Rally's, including 2 National Rally's. The talk around the table was always negative towards Works Performance's quality and reliability. That, like everything else, could have changed over the years. I hope so.

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I think it was late 2007 that BMW revamped the whole system; shocks, controller, settings, etc. When BMW replaced my 2005 system, starting with the front only, then the rear and the controller, etc., I was told it was the 2007 updated version?

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I think the ESA-II is an improvement... Original early RT's shock seemed abysmal from the stories.

 

I like the on-the-fly adjustment.

 

Are they the greatest shocks on a bike? NO. (except compared to just about anything else "stock" on the other competing bikes on the market) and this is a different system now than what "used" to be on the bikes. I'm sure an Ohlins/(etc) set-up is better but I've ridden a lot of bikes for a LONG time and I'm pretty pleased.

 

BMW are the worst bikes in the world.. cept' compared to everything else. ;-)

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  • 1 month later...

Bernd,

Don't know if I told you, but I talked to Ted (what a truly nice and informative guy!) and went ahead and had him order up the Wilbers Shocks for me. The whole package, and I won't have to mess with anything. I'll ride down (about 4 hours) the day before and be there when he unlocks the door the next morning. He'll do all the switcheroo and I'll ride home with hopefully a new bike. Can't

wait.

Thanks for your suggestion.

Ken

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  • 3 weeks later...

:)Bernd, Well, I did it. Went down to Ted's Beemer Shop a week ago this past Saturday, and rode home with a new bike. At first I couldn't tell a lot of difference, but today I rode a 200 mile Poker Run (Oops! Found out they're illegal in California, so we did a trivia run instead!) with a lot of twisties, and no luggage or extra weight, except my 110 lb. wife. Dialed in 2 helmets and off we went. Those Wilbers ESA Conversion were very confidence inspiring and planted the bike to the road like it has never been before. Still seem a bit stiff, overall, but I love them! Thanks again for the advice. Ted Porter is, like you said, a wealth of knowledge, and he pegged this one right on the mark.

KennyJ

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I have an 07 RT with 27K miles on her. I have the ESA (don't know which version - bought it in Dec of 06).

 

My question is what are the symptoms of having to replace the shocks. I love the ESA and would prefer to keep it.

 

My shocks seem fine but after reading the mileage of others when they replaced theirs is making me a little paranoid. :/

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Reply to all in this thread--

I've recently updated my Blog with infomation removed from the, now defuncted, Google Knols. Anyway....the first items are about swapping the ESA with Ohlins.

Might be worth a look see if interested.

http://lidzduc.blogspot.com/

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I have an 07 RT with 27K miles on her. I have the ESA (don't know which version - bought it in Dec of 06).

 

My question is what are the symptoms of having to replace the shocks. I love the ESA and would prefer to keep it.

 

My shocks seem fine but after reading the mileage of others when they replaced theirs is making me a little paranoid. :/

 

Bike starts to feel wallowy/bouncy and unstable in corners, not planted to the road, even in "Sport" setting. You can't do a smooth, carved turn any longer, because the bike's all over the place. You can feel a definite deterioration from "the way it was before." On my '09, the ride went south at about 20k miles. Couldn't tell you if it was the front or rear or both. I replaced the OEM ESA shocks with non-ESA Ohlins with springs selected for my weight, and it was a big improvement.

 

I now have to crank up the preload by hand on the rare occasion I carry a passenger, but I don't really miss the dash adjustable damping at all, because I rarely used it anyway, just left it in "sport" all the time.

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My question is what are the symptoms of having to replace the shocks. I love the ESA and would prefer to keep it.:/

 

Bike starts to feel wallowy/bouncy and unstable in corners, not planted to the road, even in "Sport" setting. You can't do a smooth, carved turn any longer, because the bike's all over the place. You can feel a definite deterioration from "the way it was before." On my '09, the ride went south at about 20k miles. Couldn't tell you if it was the front or rear or both. I replaced the OEM ESA shocks with non-ESA Ohlins with springs selected for my weight, and it was a big improvement.

 

I now have to crank up the preload by hand on the rare occasion I carry a passenger, but I don't really miss the dash adjustable damping at all, because I rarely used it anyway, just left it in "sport" all the time.

 

Thanks for the reply. I don't have that yet but at least now I know what to look for. Works is not that far from me so when I have to pull the trigger I'll have them do the work. I use the ESA quite a bit, so I am going to keep it when the time comes.

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