2008 r1200rt throtle body sync

[Rapala 50]

My rt has 14,000 miles now and I did a Valve adjustment on it at 12k, was wondering if doing a TBS is really needed. Has anyone really found there bike to be off at this point ? I really didn't notice anything after my valve adjustment ( which seamed to be off a bit ) as far as engine sound.

[dirtrider]

Morning Al-F

 

On the 1200 hexhead they usually settle down & hold their adjustment pretty solidly by 14,000 miles.

 

 

If you didn't have to move anything on the valve adjustment & it seems to run OK under light acceleration at 2,000-4,000 then you can probably wait till next service.

 

If you changed any of the valve settings during the 12k check then not a bad idea to re-check the above-idle TB balance when you get a chance.

 

I can usually get a pair of l-o-n-g slim needle nose pliers (or long hemostats) in on those TB hose nipples without removing the tupperware so with a little finagling you should be able to get your TB balance setup on the TB's (to check it anyhow) without removing the plastic. If the TB (above idle) balance needs adjustment then you will probably have to remove the plastic on the R/H side.

 

[hopz]

With all due respect for dirtrider...

 

I do a TBS after every valve adjustment. I believe it makes things smoother. Once you get the hang of it, it is easy fast, and makes ME feel better... forget the bike.

 

But, having said that... now that I have mileage in the high 20k's... I will feel less compulsive about it.

 

 

[Rapala 50]

I did have to make an adjustment on the valves, they where off a bit. Not sure if the dealer really did a check on them at 6k service. But after I did them I did't notice any difference in the sound of the motor. What should I be listening for ? to know I would need to do a TBS ? I can say that before and after I adjusted the valves the motor seams to bog down a little when I twist the throttle to pass someone. Almost as if it was getting to much gas . This is my first BMW and wasn't sure if that was normal.

[dirtrider]

Evening Al-F

 

Well, if you moved the valve lash setting then you altered the air flow just a bit so at least checking the above idle TB balance is probably a good idea. (no TB check at idle on the 1200 hexhead)

 

As long as it seems to be running smooth then no big hurry but it probably should eventually be done. At least that way you will know where you are as far as TB balance goes.

 

On that bogging issue?-- That isn't normal but not unheard of on your era 1200 hexhead either. Could be anything from a stick coil starting to act up, to a bad spark plug, to low fuel pressure due to a FPC acting up, to ???

 

Get a TB balance check done (as mentioned above you should be able to at least check that without removing the tupperware).

 

Also do a battery disconnect for about 30 seconds then re-connect the battery & do a new TPS re-learn. (key on, (do not start), then FULLY twist the throttle fully open & closed twice--that’s it). That will also dump the fueling computer's adaptive learns. (give you a nice clean slate for fueling offset learning).

 

If it still bogs after that it will take some work to find & cure that.

 

[Rapala 50]

Thanks for all the info. this site is really great for getting advice. Guess my next purchase is a twinMax or Morgan carbtune. I'm that guy who has to do his own stuff ( not just because of the cost savings ). Could never justify paying someone to do something I could learn to do myself.

[David13]

Let me recommend, and there are a few others who have one, also, ... the Harmonizer.

Check on advrider for it as manufactured by Grok in Folsom.

One sweet and easy to use device. It should at least be considered.

dc

[w2ge]

http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp

 

This will cost you a few bucks.... too easy.

 

BTW, Draw in Marvel Mystery Oil to fill the tube (or some use ATF)

 

[Huzband]

For what it's worth, in the nearly four years & 44k miles I've had my 12RT, I have NEVER had to adjust the throttle body's post idle. I use a Twin-Max & confirm it with a manometer, which is more discerning than the TM.

[dirtrider]

Thanks for all the info. this site is really great for getting advice. Guess my next purchase is a twinMax or Morgan carbtune. I'm that guy who has to do his own stuff ( not just because of the cost savings ). Could never justify paying someone to do something I could learn to do myself.

 

Morning Al-F

 

You really don't need any of those high dollar things like a TwinMax or Morgan Carbtune.

 

 

With just 2 cylinders firing at 360° a simple homemade delta manometer (such as Phil linked to) will work just fine. In fact those simple liquid manometers are actually more accurate than any of the electronic or rod types.

 

As long as the balance is somewhat close to begin with (your 1200 probably is) a liquid manometer is difficult to beat even using any of the high dollar commercial offerings.

 

On the liquid manometers, just adjust until the liquid columns are of equal height & you are done. VERY ACCURATE & very responsive with inches of water resolution.

 

The upside of the electronic or rod type units is portability & they look cool, so you can easily take one to a Tec Day or to a friends house. They also look professional when working on someone's bike for money. But accuracy wise no better & in most cases not as good a most simple "U" tube liquid manometers.

 

[David13]

I have to disagree with the oracle here.

I could care less about the "cool" aspect of anything.

But what I am concerned about is over sensitivity, which I have found, and a number of others have experienced with the liquid tubes.

The electronic device, which is not expensive, is indeed portable, and easy to use, without any liquid to be concerned about, and damped. Which cuts down some of the over sensitivity that small adjustments can't deal with in the liquid devices.

Some people have had success at damping the liquid devices.

I just never liked the tubes. And the mercury. Or pouring atf in them.

I could make any tool that needed to be made. However, when I can buy the tool ready made, to be used out of the box in an easy manner, at a reasonable price, why not?

dc

[smartin108]

One way to dampen the simple tube with oil type is to use a larger ID tube than the 1/8" mentioned in the link.

[w2ge]

Use refrigerator icemaker tubing, "SUCK" in the oil, rather than "pour" it in! (place one end in the can, and draw by sucking on the other...) and you can use heavier-weight two stroke oil.

 

I have heard just the opposite...that is the twinmax etc.. is too sensitive/twitchy and the manometer is easier, stable when adjusting.

 

But.. whatever floats your boat.. I just like $2 dollars vs $100+ ;-)

 

[dirtrider]

Afternoon

 

I guess I just don't understand over sensitivity as an issue. You need sensitivity to gain finite accuracy. That's one of the positive traits of using a simple "U" tube filled with liquid. Over sensitivity can EASILY be dampened down but under sensitive mechanical or electronic devices are difficult or about impossible to improve the sensitivity.

 

One of the outstanding features of the simple liquid filled "U" manometer is the sensitivity can EASILY be changed or modified to any users wishes.

As simple as using a more vicious fluid, to as complicated as a user wants to make it using 99 cent aquarium bubbler regulation valves or cigarette filters in the vacuum lines.

 

I have been using liquid filled "U" tube manometers on 360° firing 2 cylinder engines for years. W-a-y before anyone even thought of the electronic or metal rod types. I have yet to find any cross side balancing means that is more accurate than a simple liquid filled "U" tube delta device on the BMW boxer.

 

I'm not criticizing the people that use the electronics or sliding rods or other high tec balancers. A lot of users aren't that critical on perfect accuracy & to them the modern devices are all they need to get the balance close enough for their needs.

 

Personally, as long as I'm going through all the time & effort of hooking up a balancing device I want the best accuracy I can get with a foolproof balancing solution.

 

Unfortunately as good & as accurate as the simple liquid filled manometer is it only works on few engines (like the BMW boxer) as the cylinder firing & piston movement must be correct for the cross side delta to equal out.

 

[DaveinNCMn]

 

I have heard just the opposite...that is the twinmax etc.. is too sensitive/twitchy and the manometer is easier, stable when adjusting.

 

 

For this and other reasons my Twinmax stays retired in the drawer and my 30+ year old mercury manometer gets used..

 

 

[sardineone]

my 30+ year old mercury manometer gets used

 

+1 With mercury in it!

[David13]

I also can't agree that the electronic device is any less accurate.

dc

[Alfred02]

I also can't agree that the electronic device is any less accurate.

dc

+1

As the Harmonizer had such a very noticeable positive difference on my 1150RT's synchronization and engine smoothness , facts speak louder then theory/opinion.

I am sure that everybody just replies according to their experience, so there is no right or wrong here.

Stick with what you are happy with.

 

[dirtrider]

 

Morning Alfred

 

Obviously the Harmonizer is accurate enough to make you (& others) happy so that's all that counts to you.

 

As far as absolute accuracy goes, -- personally I don't see how anything that uses 2 separate pressure sensors that converts pressure to electrical input can be as accurate as a single liquid filled "U" tube pressure delta device.

 

If you look at the printed document that is published on the Harmonizer even they say---

 

"Gauge readings are affected by altitude and weather (barometric pressure). By definition, gauge readings are with reference to atmospheric pressure.

The Harmonizer is extremely sensitive. Large temperature changes during use can affect the "zero" point (offset). If the "needle" doesn't return close to zero after switching the motor off, re-zero the unit and repeat the measurement. Avoiding direct sun and a changing temperature environment minimizes the need to re-zero".

 

I haven't ever had to re-zero a basic "U" tube as the temperature, or atmospheric pressure, or being the sun changes during a TB balance operation.

 

I'm not criticizing your choice of balancing means as some people still use the old poor resolution inches of Hg vacuum gauges & seem to be happy with the end results.

 

I'm just doubtful that ANY of the lower cost electronic balancing devices are or can be as accurate as an inches of water manometer under actual changing usage conditions.

 

[hopz]

Maybe Dave would take the Twinmax out of his drawer and sell it to the O.P....

 

Geeze... it must be winter time, or a funny phase of the moon... looks like we will argue about anything.

[mwsR1200RT]

I wouldn't call it arguing, I'd call it intellectual discourse!

 

And I would agree with dirtrider. The manometer is self calibrating and has pretty much no opportunities for error - as long as you don't have any gravity deviations.

 

As any marketing pro can tell you, digital readouts give the illusion of more precision, but they are usually less accurate. However, they are very easy to read and give the consumer great comfort.

 

It is very common to confuse complexity and cost with accuracy. Ask any car racer if they would trust the expensive and flashy "laser alignment stations" to align their wheels and why.

 

[mwsR1200RT]

Just made my own manometer.

- 25' of .17" ID, .25" OD polyurethane tubing from Amazon, under $10.

- scrap of white melamine coated wood I had lying around, about 36" by 3".

- handful of TV/audio coax staples (.25" id, perfect!)

- sucked in about 4' of ATF

 

Worked perfect! Almost no pulse above 1500 rpm. Easy to read.