Shooting in SC..... with a twist

[Lone_RT_rider]

For those of you in favor of CWP classes, I bet you never thought of this scenerio. All the local chatter on the radio this morning seems to be in favor of more training so that when training this won't happen. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing twice and expecting different results?

 

Shawn

[Matts_12GS]

Proper practice makes perfect. Reinforce the wrong things and you get these kind of failures

[Rougarou]

So easy to follow, yet so easy to break.

 

• Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
   
  
• Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you intend to fire.
   
  
• Never point your weapon at anything you don’t intend to shoot.
   
  
• Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.

 

We also have used the "know your target and what's behind it" as an unwritten rule.

[Kinsley]

I would hope that non-riders would not take the same approach to our hobby.

 

Anything we do can be dangerous, but many of those same things bring us pleasure and in the case of CWP a sense of security for ourselves and loved ones.

[4wheeldog]

Considering the number of these classes given each week, and the inexperience of quite a few of the participants, I think it is admirable that this is a rare occurance, rare enough to be news.

 

I am sure their are far more injuries per capita in MSF courses.

[Lone_RT_rider]

I am sure their are far more injuries per capita in MSF courses.

 

I am also sure that most of the MSF course injuries do not involve a 22 caliber projectile going through the abdominal cavity.

 

Shawn

[Glenn Reed]

I am sure their are far more injuries per capita in MSF courses.

 

I am also sure that most of the MSF course injuries do not involve a 22 caliber projectile going through the abdominal cavity.

 

Shawn

 

And the injuries in MSF are more likely to the individual who screws up, not another rider.

[Kinsley]

I am sure their are far more injuries per capita in MSF courses.

 

I am also sure that most of the MSF course injuries do not involve a 22 caliber projectile going through the abdominal cavity.

 

Shawn

 

And the injuries in MSF are more likely to the individual who screws up, not another rider.

 

My point is that people (who don't ride) see what we do as dangerous. It doesn't matter if its MSF, an on-track school, or on-road training, etc., the point is that people do get hurt while training to get proficient or safer at something that has some inherent danger.

I also know one can get hurt, and sometimes badly, by another motorcyclist while doing that training, we call it acceptable risk. We are at risk when others around us fail to perform in an acceptable manner.

 

Guns being used for self protection should not have a stigma because someone failed to operate in a safe manner while training. Maybe the training rules change, but it is not a problem of the gun, it's the operator.

[Lone_RT_rider]

Guns being used for self protection should not have a stigma because someone failed to operate in a safe manner while training. Maybe the training rules change, but it is not a problem of the gun, it's the operator.

 

The "operator" was the CWP instructor, who happened to be an off duty police officer in the Spartanburg SC area. He was handling the weapon at the time of the accident.

[Mike]

Guns being used for self protection should not have a stigma because someone failed to operate in a safe manner while training. Maybe the training rules change, but it is not a problem of the gun, it's the operator.

 

The "operator" was the CWP instructor, who happened to be an off duty police officer in the Spartanburg SC area. He was handling the weapon at the time of the accident.

 

One thing that many fail to appreciate is that few cops or military members are true experts when it comes to shooting. Better than the average Joe, yes, but not always top-tier shooters. In fact, many LEOs don't really Ike guns.

[Kinsley]

Guns being used for self protection should not have a stigma because someone failed to operate in a safe manner while training. Maybe the training rules change, but it is not a problem of the gun, it's the operator.

 

The "operator" was the CWP instructor, who happened to be an off duty police officer in the Spartanburg SC area. He was handling the weapon at the time of the accident.

 

Yes, and he failed to operate it in a safe manner, no excuses. It's still not a fault of the program or the gun.

I would not blame the motorcycle or the training course if an instructor ran into me or stuffed me into a corner and I got injured. That's just a stupid move on the instructor's part.

[Rougarou]

I ran the range at a base in Georgia. During the course of the year, probably two negligent discharges would happen. Not bad seeing as I put through over 1000 people annually. Most of the negligent discharges that we would have would be the shooter trying to pull out the slack in the trigger.

 

Why this instructor, while showing the "proper" way to hold the weapon had the muzzle pointed along the firing line is one of the questions I would like answered and also, why was the finger on the trigger?

 

Every time I instructed shooters, the muzzle was always pointed down range. If the weapon is moved from one student/shooter to the next, it is handed to that student with the muzzle pointed toward the targets. 99% of the times that the weapon changes hands, it is cleared with the slide locked in the rear position. That way, when the receiver gets the pistol, the receiver can check the weapon as well.

[Ohio48]

 

Every time I instructed shooters, the muzzle was always pointed down range. If the weapon is moved from one student/shooter to the next, it is handed to that student with the muzzle pointed toward the targets. 99% of the times that the weapon changes hands, it is cleared with the slide locked in the rear position. That way, when the receiver gets the pistol, the receiver can check the weapon as well.

 

That is the way I was first instructed.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

One thing that many fail to appreciate is that few cops or military members are true experts when it comes to shooting. Better than the average Joe, yes, but not always top-tier shooters. In fact, many LEOs don't really Ike guns.

 

As a college freshman, I took a pistol marksmanship class and a rifle marksmanship class. Each was one academic quarter, and both were run by the army ROTC folks. It was a different instructor for each course, and the two had very different attitudes toward safety. The pistol class instructor was very safety-oriented, and very vigilant. If you didn't follow his instructions perfectly, or did something dangerous with your pistol (e.g. pointing it somewhere unsafe while clearing a misfire), he was paying attention and gave you a good chewing out in a less-than-friendly tone of voice that made you pay more attention to what you were doing after that. One guy actually fired at his target before the instructor said "commence firing" - which meant his finger was on the trigger when it should not have been. The instructor chewed him out for at least a minute before restarting the whole "commence firing" countdown again.

 

The second guy was more friendly and casual; I really don't remember him ever chewing anyone out. People liked him, but I remember seeing other students doing things and thinking to myself, "should they be doing that?"

 

The first guy was probably regarded by many in the class as an a-hole - but as I look back, he was the one who should have been in charge of both classes.

[Medic Mike]

As Richard and many of us here that have served, understand what and how the military does with weapon safety. I am all for CWP/CCW classes and the right to conceal firearms, with proper training and etiquitte. Most courses focus on one or the other, not both. I remember from BCT through OCS and beyond the continious focus on weapons safety and muzzle awareness. The officer teaching this course did a number of things wrong or half way. Is that because of bieng over confident? familiarity? long track record of safety? Again, which came first, the chicken or the egg? As one poster stated, despote the thousands of CCW/CWP classes that go one daily, the fact this is a rare occurance should be looked at. Have we forgot the video of the ATF agent that shot himself? Just like with our MC, when simple safety rules are forgotten and or bent eventually it will catch up with you.

Side bar- I have, and never will consider myself a statemen, let alone someone who can spell. I had a publique edgukation in rural Ohio so please be kind.

[Ken H.]

After the shooting the student, identified as…., was driven to a convenience store

 

The class was being taught by an off-duty Spartanburg County Deputy

WTF? A (presumed!) trained professional witnesses a person with a gunshot wound and the reaction is to drive her to a convenience store? Ever hear of 9-1-1 dude?

 

[Rougarou]

After the shooting the student, identified as…., was driven to a convenience store

 

The class was being taught by an off-duty Spartanburg County Deputy

WTF? A (presumed!) trained professional witnesses a person with a gunshot wound and the reaction is to drive her to a convenience store? Ever hear of 9-1-1 dude?

 

I understood the article to be that the convenience store was where the LZ was for Dustoff to come in and pick up the wounded. M'be I comprehended it differently.

[Ken H.]

Could be. At least that would make some sense.

[Kinsley]

Some of these places aren't exactly where an address on the EMS unit would send them. It's much faster to meet EMS at a known location to all parties, than to have them running around and calling because they're lost....if they have cell service.

[Quinn]

HWTF? A (presumed!) trained professional witnesses a person with a gunshot wound and the reaction is to drive her to a convenience store? Ever hear of 9-1-1 dude?

 

9-1-1

7-11

 

What's the difference? They're both convenient.

 

 

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