Westminster Dog Show and sponsor Pedigree

[Ken H.]

Sometimes the arrogant, condescending, pomposity of some people (in this case group of people) just astonishes me. Tired of "sad" dogs

[Dave McReynolds]

There have been a number of well-publicized reversals of poorly thought out corporate and non-profit organization policy decisions that have backfired recently. While this won't rank up there with some of the ones we could all think of, it seems to be the same kind of decision making in a vacuum without any regard to probable public reaction.

 

I'm beginning to think there might be aome kind of a communicable disease going around that causes business/organization leaders to lose their common sense and view the world through tunnel vision. I certainly don't remember very many public examples of such poor decision making prior to a few years ago.

[Bob Palin]

Biff's thinking about switching to Pedigree...

[Kathy R]

Biff's thinking about switching to Pedigree...

 

Better to donate to the Humane Society and keep feeding Biff high quality food. Pedigree doesn't appear to be all that great for dogs

 

As for the WKC decision; while I think overall it's a shortsighted decision, I do understand that their focus is on the promotion of pure bred dogs. They went about this poorly. Either way Pedigree and the Humane Society will benefit from the press.

[Mike]

Rescue dogs can be trouble.

 

I've had both purebreds and mutts . . . loved them all . . . but the Westminster people could have handled this much better.

[RonStewart]

Kathy, the Humane Society of the United States has a number of detractors among people I like and respect. Discussion of that organization is banned on some forums I belong to for the same reason that politics is banned here.

 

If I were in the US and wanted to donate money for animal welfare, I would donate to my local shelter or my local humane society.

[Whip]

Interesting

[Kathy R]

Kathy, the Humane Society of the United States has a number of detractors among people I like and respect. Discussion of that organization is banned on some forums I belong to for the same reason that politics is banned here.

 

If I were in the US and wanted to donate money for animal welfare, I would donate to my local shelter or my local humane society.

 

That's all news to me, but thanks for that perspective.

I'm all for my local shelter too.

[markgoodrich]

This is probably a hijack: "purebred" is in my view and experience a terrible misnomer. Furthermore, the life of a show dog is miserable, again, in my view and experience. We have two dachshunds we bought/rescued from a very reputable breeder who breeds dogs to show. We went to a show in Houston to get the younger dog, and while laughing and being amazed at how accurate the film "Best in Show" was, we also noticed how the dogs were all crated almost all the time, and were treated like property, not pets. That first dog was about a year old and had never been shown, as she wasn't "perfect" enough, although if you saw her you'd almost certainly say something like "wow I didn't know a dachshund could look like that." She was relatively easy to socialize...it only took about six months but to this day, years later, she is totally freaked to be out in the world. The second dog, her father, was acquired within a year of the first. He's one of the most beautiful, large dachshunds you would ever encounter...belay that...he WAS beautiful. It took YEARS to socialize him. He'd never spent any time to speak of outside his crate. Today, years later, if you go to pick him up, he assumes the position you see in shows. Sad.

 

But the truly sad part of these and so many "purebred" dogs is they're INBRED, or as the breeders euphemistically say it, "line bred." We're pretty sure our male dog married his mother, producing his daughter our other dog. The dogs have multiple serious conditions: skin diseases which cause horrific itching and redness; tumors; poor vision; frequent ear infections; and worst of all, the male has Cushing's disease. Among many other serious symptoms of Cushing's is a cosmetic one, alopecia, i.e. baldness. A balding wiener dog is a pitiful sight.

 

We love our dogs, and if we could afford it, we'd rescue more from that "show dog" life, but the vet bills for just one of the dogs exceeds both our own annual medical bills by a very considerable margin.

 

What breeders do is really almost criminal, all just to get ribbons or trophies, disregarding the genetic issues.

 

Sorry for the rant...kind of.

[SeanC]

Good post, Mark. I have a problem with just about everything the WKC is about. And the AKC too, for that matter. A number of good breeds have been severely damaged by these people.

[texasaggie97]

My Dog should have won! I will enter him next time. haha

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

[Glenn Reed]

My wife has allergies, but we wanted a dog not long after we got married. (Practice for kids, cough cough.) She did the research and settled on Soft Coated Wheten Terriers as the breed since they do not shed. Then the fun began, finding breeders who were even in our time zone and then dealing with the obsessive requirements. Most wanted the dog to have a free range space and at least one adult home with the dog all the time. Well that wasn't going to work, but Rina found a breeder who would sell to us. We got our first, Travis McGee back in '87, with papers and everything. We had no ambitions of showing him, he was to be a pet. He was with us for 15 1/2 years and taught us a lot.

 

When he was getting up in years, we got Abbey through much the same process, but a little easier since we already had another Wheaten. She is now nine and can outrun most younger dogs, even those with longer legs.

 

Then there's Murphy. When we got him he was still a young pup, and had had five previous owners, starting with the original breeder. He's now five and sounds like Chewbacca when he's trying to get your attention.

 

There have never been any issues with them getting along with our two boys, we have never made any effort to show them, they are family members. (When they go with us in the car, they are never crated on the roof either...)

 

While our choice has been a pure breed, it was for a very specific reason, and in the case of Murphy, he was a quasi-rescue dog with everything he had been through.

 

My brother likes Bassett Hounds, and has had three rescue Bassetts.

 

Everybody has to make their own decisions on what dog makes sense in their particular situation.

[RonStewart]

Mark & Sean, you'll find that Glenn's breeders who "wanted the dog to have a free range space and at least one adult home with the dog all the time" are a LOT more common than those who keep their show dogs crated all day. These people do tend to be obsessive about the health and happiness of the puppies they sell.

 

I held the dog who won my breed at Westminster this week back when he was an eight-week-old puppy. This dog sleeps on the people bed at night, and is completely loved. He is treated better than some people treat their kids.

 

There are bad breeders and show-dog exhibitors. No denying that. But the vast majority are dog lovers working to improve the health of their breeds. I will concede that some breeds, specifically bulldogs, may be beyond help, but they are the exception, not the rule.

 

edit: I love dogs. I love mixed-breed dogs and purebreds too.

[Quinn]

Watching the dog show all I could think about was that all of the different breeds started out as wolves. Amazing how you can eventually breed a wolf down to a Yorkie. Wonder what my ancestors would think if they saw me; and I'm just a mixed breed.

 

----

 

 

 

 

[Huzband]

Huh?

[Mike]

Huh?

 

Dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf. There's some disagreement as to when the domestication began. I've seen sources suggesting that it may have begun 125,000 years ago and others suggesting it started as little as 15,000 years ago.

 

I'm pretty comfy sharing a couch with a golden retriever, but you have to admire the pluckiness of the first guy who decided to make a wolf his household (cavehold?) pet.

 

Anyway, I also find it pretty astounding that there's a common genetic link among the huge range of dog breeds. The Great Dane and the Chihuahua share common ancestry.

[Mike]

My Dog should have won! I will enter him next time. haha

 

What do you think?

 

 

 

Nice lookin' dog, but I think this little guy, bred specifically to open FedEx packages, would also be in the running:

 

 

Some of you have already guessed it: He's an Afghan-American Labrachowji Shepherd.

[Huzband]

 

Dogs are all descendants of the gray wolf. There's some disagreement as to when the domestication began. I've seen sources suggesting that it may have begun 125,000 years ago and others suggesting it started as little as 15,000 years ago.

 

I'm pretty comfy sharing a couch with a golden retriever, but you have to admire the pluckiness of the first guy who decided to make a wolf his household (cavehold?) pet.

 

Anyway, I also find it pretty astounding that there's a common genetic link among the huge range of dog breeds. The Great Dane and the Chihuahua share common ancestry.

 

I'll take your word for it. Don't know enough to argue, don't care enough to research it.

 

I'm with ya on being discretionary with what I'll share my couch.

[Mike]

I'll take your word for it. Don't know enough to argue . . . .

 

That's never been an impediment to most of us in this forum.

[tallman]

Over the years we've had purebred AKC registered and numerous shelter rescues.

There are bad shelters/breeders/owners/dogs.

There are many good ones too.

Find what works for you.

Last 7 have been rescues.

Our most recent one (over 3 years with us) has introduced me to

the Anatolian Shepherd a breed that dates back to 4,000BC or earlier.

 

 

[CVA-42]

The February issue of National Geographic contains an informative article titled "Mix, Match, Morph" and sub-titled "How to Build a Dog". It explains that despite the similar appearance among humans and other most other mammals within their own species, hundreds of genes interact to produce a similar phypsical trait. In dogs, on the other hand, even with their huge physical differences in appearance from breed to breed, only a relatively small number of genes are in play as far as physical traits are concerned. Apparently, the genetic makeup of dogs may have useful implications for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases in humans.

[tallman]

"It came to me that every time I lose a dog they take a piece of my heart with them.

And every new dog who comes into my life, gifts me with a piece of their heart. If I

live long enough, all the components of my heart will be dog, and I will become as

generous and loving as they are." -Unknown

[Kitsap]

Thanks Tallman, I like that.

 

As to the original post the requirements of the client were not properly handled, end of story. We've adopted from a shelter and purchased papered pups and loved them all. I personally can't stand the images of abused animals and question the effectiveness of using them.

[SeanC]

Ron, my problem with the WKC & AKC isn't with how the owners of show dogs treat their dogs (I assume most are treated very well), nor is it with the concept of purebreds in general. It's their obsession with aesthetics that I find fault with. Especially as it relates to working and hunting breeds. Dogs as beauty pageant contestants is absurd to begin with, but the committees and panels who determine the breed characteristics have actually damaged many breeds and bloodlines. Today's Labrador Retrievers, for instance, barely resemble the dog they were originally bred to be. I can't tell you how many long-legged, muscular, taut-skinned Labs I see. And by reducing everything to appearance, the kennel clubs have also unwittingly introduced unnecessary suffering from the inevitable genetic disorders that result from placing appearance above breed integrity.

 

If I were running things, all dog shows would be trials-based, with a focus on intelligence, obedience and last on the list, appearance.

[Ken H.]

This is probably a hijack: how accurate the film "Best in Show" was,

Hijack of your hijack: We love everything Christopher Guest has done!

 

Buck Laughlin (Fred Willard), the judge totally clueless about dogs, “Well that’s something you don’t see everyday in a dog show” referring to Gerry Fleck’s (Eugene Levy) two left feet. Which he actually has in the movie. One of those little things that makes Guest’s humor so great.

 

[Bob Palin]

I'm pretty comfy sharing a couch with a golden retriever, but you have to admire the pluckiness of the first guy who decided to make a wolf his household (cavehold?) pet.

It would be fascinating to know how it started, presumably somebody killed a wolf and raised its pups. Doubt the majority of cave dwelling dogs were pets though, hunters more likely.

[tallman]

Bob,

A good possibility.

And/or as man developed food that smelled good (think bacon ) der Hund hung around willing to wait for food scraps left behind or intentionally sent their way.

Being smarter than the average 5th grader, the beasts eventually became willing to work for food possibly hunting as a pack and sharing the kill.

 

Or, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, dogs trained us to work.

 

[SeanC]

I like that idea. I think maybe they bred us to throw balls....

[RonStewart]

Sean, I guess there are several issues that need to be separated. In general, I am more in the performance trial camp than the show dog camp. I don't breed and I don't show. I do a lot of training because my dogs enjoy it. I own dogs who are said to be herding dogs, and we compete in herding trials. I am constantly telling people in my breed that their dogs are too heavy with legs that are too short. I am the secretary of the Canadian Cardigan Corgi Club, and do what I can, within the system, to improve the breed, and to reverse this oversizing trend.

 

My previous post was addressing the idea that show dogs are mistreated as individuals. I have many dog-show friends, and none of them mistreat their animals.

 

I have heard from many quarters that dog shows are on the decline.

[texasaggie97]

Mike,

 

Cute dog.

[Mike]

Mike,

 

Cute dog.

 

Thanks. He's our son's dog...his Army commitments preclude having the pup with him, so we're the foster parents!

[pbbeck]

The absurdity of overbreeding purebreds and breeding for aesthetics is highlighted in this recent article about bulldogs in the NY Times.

[Ken H.]

I have heard from many quarters that dog shows are on the decline.

One can only hope. I’m not going to go all PETA and scream and jump up and down for the banning of all animal shows (except maybe ones where they are intentionally killed, e.g. bullfights, cock fights), howerver in general I think it would do humanity well if they declined away. At this point in our evolution I would hope we are growing beyond using other species for our amusement.