Whitney Houston RIP

[Rinkydink]

Whitney dead at age 48. What an amazing voice until she started hanging with the thug. So sad.

[Kathy R]

She made some bad choices, not least of which was her choice to do drugs. She was an extraordinary talent. RIP

 

Star Spangled Banner

 

 

 

She blows right through the big hair and shoulder pads. What a voice and what an interpreter of song. She was elegant and powerful.

 

I Will Always Love You (live)

[enfoman]

In her prime, She was certainly an angel with that so very powerful voice and personna. It is too bad the door started closing on her life so soon when that "thug" as the OP puts it entered into her life. Will probably never know what the attraction was other than the nose candy he provided. Too bad she wasn't strong enough to jump over the hurdles.

[yabadabapal]

RIP and thanks for all the great music. I was reading every news column I could find about the details related to her passing away.

So many well known people in the entertainment business spoke about how much they loved her and how close some of them were to her.

I dont know about what they do or don't do in the entertainment business but when Im close to someone I love, I don't let something like this happen to them. But then again Im sure some people tried to help her and maybe couldn't. Her significant ex is a piece of !@#$

[Mike]

She was an amazing talent, but honestly I get a little pissed at people who do these things to themselves. Life is complicated, and we can't know all the circumstances of her life, but she had it so much--beauty, immense talent, wealth, and, most importantly, the gift to touch others in a positive way--and she treated the gift of life with disregard. When I see the struggles of people afflicted by illnesses or injuries not of their doing, struggling to hold on to life, it grieves me to see someone toss it away.

 

Still, I hope she now finds a peace that she couldn't find in this life.

[Kathy R]

Check out this NYTimes piece

1985 on Merv Griffin for one....

 

Whitney Houston / NY Times

[Dan5620]

She was an amazing talent, but honestly I get a little pissed at people who do these things to themselves. Life is complicated, and we can't know all the circumstances of her life, but she had it so much--beauty, immense talent, wealth, and, most importantly, the gift to touch others in a positive way--and she treated the gift of life with disregard. When I see the struggles of people afflicted by illnesses or injuries not of their doing, struggling to hold on to life, it grieves me to see someone toss it away.

 

Still, I hope she now finds a peace that she couldn't find in this life.

 

+1. I listened to hours of talk over the weekend regarding her talent, geart income, love to party and pretty much, self imposed hardships. Little has been mentioned about foundations and other causes she was involved in, which she was, at least at one time. Wonder why this is?

[DiggerJim]

She was an amazing talent, but honestly I get a little pissed at people who do these things to themselves.

Me too. I'm always conflicted when I hear something like this happen. I appreciate the quality of her life until she trashed it and then I feel sorry for her. Because she did that though, the idolization turns me off because the aggregate of her life was so mixed...and where were the idolizers when she was behaving badly.

 

But it did get me thinking. She's probably the poster-girl for why drugs ought not be legalized. For all intents and purposes, Hollywood folks (singers, actors, etc.) are not bound by most legal norms and can by and large do whatever they want. Once in awhile they overstep enough that people draw a line (but even then, it's not always too painful for the perpetrator - ask Robert Blake). Here are people who as a class have "everything going for them" but then flush it all down the toilet through drug use. They don't suffer the normal consequences of potential jail time, losing their livelihood, losing the family, etc. Even if arrested the punishment is rehab but mostly they can publicly admit their ongoing lawlessness and not have any consequences until it kills them.

 

So I wonder why would the end result be different for the other 99.9% of us if they were legalized?

 

Godspeed to her but I feel for Etta James (who had similar issues as Whitney's and arguably similar impact on music) whose tribute was eclipsed or Adele who has had a stunning year and seems to have deserved some of the attention diverted to the adulation of Whitney. Too bad for Don Cornelius who picked the wrong year as well - I don't think they even mentioned him last night on the Grammys.

[Dave McReynolds]

So I wonder why would the end result be different for the other 99.9% of us if they were legalized?

 

Don't want to get into a political discussion, so I won't list all the reasons why I think drug use either should or should not be legalized.

 

That said, I don't think anyone on this board would advocate drug use outside of a doctor's care (and maybe sometimes even then: vis Michael Jackson) as being a good thing that should be encouraged.

 

The question people should be asking themselves is whether drugs do more harm when they're outlawed, or would they do more harm if they were controlled in the same way alcohol is controlled, taking into account the cost to society of policing, prosecuting, and incarcerating drug crimes compared with using the same amount of resources for some other purpose, or even just returning it to the taxpayers.

[Kathy R]

Does anyone want to wait for the toxicology report?

 

Is that a formality?

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Does anyone want to wait for the toxicology report?

 

Is that a formality?

 

She was 48. It occurred to me tonight that a heart attack is a distinct possibility.

[beemerman2k]

As great a talent this woman was, I can't say I ever got into her music. I love Chaka Khan, but not so much Whitney Houston. Don't know why, just never connected with her I guess.

 

One great female vocalist I used to love was Minnie Riperton. She died from cancer back in the summer of '79. Wow, did she ever have a beautiful voice! Denise Williams would be another great one on my short list, just below after Aretha Franklin, Chaka, and Minnie.

 

Nonetheless, I am amazed at how much this woman meant to the world. Frankly, I had no idea she was so popular!

 

May she rest in peace.

[doc47]

She was 48. It occurred to me tonight that a heart attack is a distinct possibility.

 

Cocaine-induced? Quien sabe?

 

Sad. Why does the celeb lifestyle pull so many talented folks into a downward spiral? So many stars dead from drugs of one sort or another...

[Mike]

Does anyone want to wait for the toxicology report?

 

Is that a formality?

 

You're right...we're all making assumptions, largely based on what we know of her troubles, but assumptuous nonetheless.

[texasaggie97]

Goes to show you that the body can take a licking and keep in ticking only for so long. We were talking about how dangerous motorcycling is, I will bet that drugs and other hard living vices are much more dangerous. The sad thing is how our society loves to support these self destructive live styles. Watch Jersey Shores it is sad we watch to see how drunk and how many girl or guys these people can sleep with. Since when do we watch people self destruct and say not my place to say anything and help. Just sad because Whitney Houston had been living this life-style for as long as I can remember. I guess no one cared enough to get her some help as long as people were making money. I know people have to want to help themselves but there are ways to get through when people get involved in the addicts daily life. I worked with addicts and some you can not reach but most can with proper support.

[philbytx]

Coroner "leaked" that prescription drugs were found bedside....

[Husker Red]

Does anyone want to wait for the toxicology report?

 

Is that a formality?

 

She was 48. It occurred to me tonight that a heart attack is a distinct possibility.

 

Yeah, certainly a possibility but still probably brought on by years of hard living.

I was saddened to hear of her death. I was a fan of her work, but I have already mourned her loss years ago. She was such a talent. Drugs cost her that talent and her strength. Now she can serve as a cautionary tale. Crack IS wack.

[Kathy R]

Coroner "leaked" that prescription drugs were found bedside....

 

That's true of me too. The Coroner also said that the drugs found were typical of a 48 year old woman.

 

While it's documented that she has abused illegal drugs in the past, it remains to be seen if that is what stopped her heart that night. Were I born with her talents and subjected to her life track, from a young age, I might know more about what it's really like to be her. As it is, I can only make judgements from afar. Historically, it seems to be a daunting task to be put under those pressures, as evidenced by the carnage. It seems some people with extraordinary talents give us what they've got and then succumb to life's pressures, while in the public eye. I could go to a part of my town and see a women whose given in to drug addiction or alcohol abuse. Maybe it's hard to imagine that a person with wealth and fame can do the same? Maybe there is an anger over the waste. In both cases, it's a horrible waste. Humans have been abusing this or that for a long time. It's a hard thing to witness. It's an easy thing to get mad about. I suspect that until we unlock the human brain we aren't going to figure it out completely. When you match some people with some substances you get addiction.

 

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Coroner "leaked" that prescription drugs were found bedside....

 

That could mean literally any prescription drug, from (relatively harmless) prescription-strength ibuprofen up to the classic schedule II drugs, and everything in between. As such, "prescription drugs were found bedside" is not a very helpful piece of information.

[Rinkydink]

Coroner "leaked" that prescription drugs were found bedside....

 

That could mean literally any prescription drug, from (relatively harmless) prescription-strength ibuprofen up to the classic schedule II drugs, and everything in between. As such, "prescription drugs were found bedside" is not a very helpful piece of information.

 

Exactly, but we all know with past behavior it is not likely Tylenol 3...

[Ohio48]

Coroner "leaked" that prescription drugs were found bedside....

 

That could mean literally any prescription drug, from (relatively harmless) prescription-strength ibuprofen up to the classic schedule II drugs, and everything in between. As such, "prescription drugs were found bedside" is not a very helpful piece of information.

 

Exactly, but we all know with past behavior it is not likely Tylenol 3...

 

+1

[Rougarou]

Coroner "leaked" that prescription drugs were found bedside....

 

That could mean literally any prescription drug, from (relatively harmless) prescription-strength ibuprofen up to the classic schedule II drugs, and everything in between. As such, "prescription drugs were found bedside" is not a very helpful piece of information.

 

Ya, like she's going to be popping some 800mg Motrin like it is "Grunt Candy". They could call your average infantryman a "prescription" drug abuser because I know on 18-20 mile hikes, I'd pop a 800mg an hour prior to the hike, at start, then every hour until completed, which is generally, for that distance, 6-7 hours. I ate 6400mg of Motrin. Corpsman handed those things out like candy, hence the nickname "Grunt candy".

 

We could be mistaken about the cause of her death, many thought that Amy Winehouse died of drugs, but no, it was booze, duh. Either way that Whitney died, I'd bet that it had to do with some sort of addictive issue.

 

I have zero sympathy, empathy or other feeling for someone that has talent and throws it away. There are too many talented people out there that live a full life without the need or perceived need to indulge in extra-curricular activities to numb them from their successes.

 

 

[Nice n Easy Rider]

Why can't they let her RIP?

 

From today's news: "In the meantime, investigators have requested all of Houston's medical records. They want to know why prescription drugs were inside her hotel room when she died."

 

Every time I travel I carry 4-5 prescription medicines with me. Several I take every day and others, as needed.

 

Geez, let the woman's family grieve in peace!

[texasaggie97]

Well said Kathy!!

[beemerman2k]

Why can't they let her RIP?

 

...

 

Geez, let the woman's family grieve in peace!

 

Every time a celebrity dies this forum casts all manner of judgements about the person, as learned from our ever so trustworthy media. We assume what we hear on the news is true, and then we assume we know all there is to be told, and therefore the judgements fly.

 

I'm with Nice n Easy Rider, it's a terrible end to a brilliant life, why can't we just leave it at that? I am grateful that I wasn't exposed to the temptations she was. Were I, I might come to learn that she was a much stronger person that I would have been under the same circumstances. "There but for the grace of God go I", as the saying goes.

[tallman]

James,

Did you see the video taken shortly before her death?

She seemed to be, well, looking rough, for whatever reason.

I personally don't care at this point.

RIP

 

 

BTW, 6400mg on a regular basis?

I'd have liver tested. Everyone is different but that amount is sufficient to impact liver function.

And, alcohol is a drug.

[Rougarou]

 

BTW, 6400mg on a regular basis?

I'd have liver tested. Everyone is different but that amount is sufficient to impact liver function.

 

It was every hike that we did that had significant distance. So, if you average an infantry unit in the rear, doing field time 3 weeks out of the month, hike out, hike back, that's 6 sessions a month that I'm eating grunt candy. Liver's fine, the body is good too. I still run and cycle five days a week and my bloodwork comes back good.

 

Each body is different and I don't subscribe to doctors statistics.

[Ken H.]

I am grateful that I wasn't exposed to the temptations she was. Were I, I might come to learn that she was a much stronger person that I would have been under the same circumstances. "There but for the grace of God go I", as the saying goes.

That’s kind of where I am on the subject. I don’t think us ‘mere mortals’ have a clue about the shoes the famous walk in. The pressures put on them from so many directions, not the least of which is the collective ‘us’, has got be enormous.

 

Not that that is an excuse for all kinds of bad behavior we see, but never-the-less I don’t think most of us would stand a chance in the same environment.

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Thats kind of where I am on the subject. I dont think us mere mortals have a clue about the shoes the famous walk in. The pressures put on them from so many directions, not the least of which is the collective us, has got be enormous.

 

She once said during an interview, "have you ever heard the sound of 10,000 people disappointed in you?" I suppose it's that same kind of pressure that gave Michael Jackson severe insomnia.

[Rougarou]

She once said during an interview, "have you ever heard the sound of 10,000 people disappointed in you?" I suppose it's that same kind of pressure that gave Michael Jackson severe insomnia.

 

Doesn't seem to bother the elected, so why should it bother the entertainers?

 

I feel that the strong-willed, will continue to be the strong-willed. If the likes of Ted Nugent can stay away from the temptation drugs or alcohol, why can't everyone else? Steve Harris, the bassist and founder for Iron Maiden was quoted once saying the hardest thing they do is have a pint of ale every now and then. We hear of the negatives in a much more prominent light than the positives. There are others out there, but those two names popped up in my head immediately.

[Mike]

I am grateful that I wasn't exposed to the temptations she was. Were I, I might come to learn that she was a much stronger person that I would have been under the same circumstances. "There but for the grace of God go I", as the saying goes.

That’s kind of where I am on the subject. I don’t think us ‘mere mortals’ have a clue about the shoes the famous walk in. The pressures put on them from so many directions, not the least of which is the collective ‘us’, has got be enormous.

 

Not that that is an excuse for all kinds of bad behavior we see, but never-the-less I don’t think most of us would stand a chance in the same environment.

 

I've never known an A list celebrity, but have run into a few that are a notch or two below. I've also spent a bit of time with enormously wealth individuals, who, oddly enough, never buy the drinks.

 

What I can tell you from these experiences, is that, regardless of wealth or fame, these people remain human. They may have inflated egos or be hyper-driven to succeed, but they still share the same needs, foibles, weaknesses, triumphs and tragedies as the rest of us. The wealth itself comes with its issues, largely born of the fact that a lot of people want a piece of the pie. And then, as in Whitney Houston's case, being at the pinnacle of the entertainment business means that there's nowhere to go but down. The public is fickle and certainly more enchanted with a young, beautiful entertainer than we are when that person ends up not-so-young and not-quite-as-beautiful. In that respect, I think celebrity can be quite cruel.

 

Having said all that, it's still possible to be enormously successful and keep your feet planted on the Earth. A lot of people do it.

[tallman]

She once said during an interview, "have you ever heard the sound of 10,000 people disappointed in you?" I suppose it's that same kind of pressure that gave Michael Jackson severe insomnia.

 

Doesn't seem to bother the elected, so why should it bother the entertainers?

 

I feel that the strong-willed, will continue to be the strong-willed. If the likes of Ted Nugent can stay away from the temptation drugs or alcohol, why can't everyone else? Steve Harris, the bassist and founder for Iron Maiden was quoted once saying the hardest thing they do is have a pint of ale every now and then. We hear of the negatives in a much more prominent light than the positives. There are others out there, but those two names popped up in my head immediately.

 

While I am happy for you, it appears you don't understand the psychology of addiction.

Alcoholism is a disease.

The physiological side of addiction is one that some never win, and it isn't because they are weak minded individuals.

Many of your posts state anyone can do X (like acclimate to extreme weather).

If only it were so easy.

[Rougarou]

She once said during an interview, "have you ever heard the sound of 10,000 people disappointed in you?" I suppose it's that same kind of pressure that gave Michael Jackson severe insomnia.

 

Doesn't seem to bother the elected, so why should it bother the entertainers?

 

I feel that the strong-willed, will continue to be the strong-willed. If the likes of Ted Nugent can stay away from the temptation drugs or alcohol, why can't everyone else? Steve Harris, the bassist and founder for Iron Maiden was quoted once saying the hardest thing they do is have a pint of ale every now and then. We hear of the negatives in a much more prominent light than the positives. There are others out there, but those two names popped up in my head immediately.

 

While I am happy for you, it appears you don't understand the psychology of addiction.

Alcoholism is a disease.

The physiological side of addiction is one that some never win, and it isn't because they are weak minded individuals.

Many of your posts state anyone can do X (like acclimate to extreme weather).

If only it were so easy.

 

As a former substance abuse counselor, I think I understand both the mental toll and the toll on the body that addiction takes. To never indulge is to never become addicted, and it really is that easy. There are many celebrities that never indulged in the drug and alcohol scene, there are many that do and control it. No matter how it is studied and spun, it is a matter of being strong willed, being able to control your wants and desires and deny your body its wants.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike]

Not being an expert, I tend to agree. Whether it's termed a disease, a weakness, or a character flaw, addiction can have a powerful grip. The people I've seen successfully escape it tend to be extraordinarily strong-willed.

 

We've seen our share among friends and family. The latter to the extent that our son once remarked as a young teen that he was "genetically screwed" and could never take the risk of getting hooked.

[tallman]

I respectfully disagree.

Many studies show addiction is at least 50% genetics.

 

"Addiction has historically been known as a disease that runs in families, and in the past 30 or 40 years, this long-standing belief has been verified using systematic scientific investigation. The bulk of the research suggests that drug dependence functions much like other diseases, with certain people having a genetic makeup that increases their risk."

http://neuroanthropology.net/2008/05/06/the-genetic-and-environmental-bases-of-addiction/

 

I can cite study after study showing the link.

 

For the record, I worked in neurological care and substance

abuse rehabilitation and counseling.

[Dave McReynolds]

I'm not sure that fame brings that much, if any, increased risk of overindulging and becomming addicted to something. If we look around us at the homeless wrecks sleeping under bridges and begging for enough money to buy their next bottle or hit, what we find are hundreds or thousands of people who never made it off the bottom rung of life.

 

I'm sure fame brings its share of problems with it, like a distorted view of one's self-importance, and certainly there are those who will become addicted who are famous or wealthy, but they are probably the same people who would have become addicted anyway.

[BFish]

So she was famous, had some dough and partied. Probably addicted to something, lacked self esteem and needed a crutch. she could freakin sing.

 

The folks under the overpass begging for dough to get their fix and she, or anyone else "addicted," are cousins.

 

She died, we all die...i don't really care at this point, but do feel sorry for her kid. Truly hope she is mentally/physically stronger than her mom and dad.

 

For every celeb mess who leaves the world early there must be tens of thousands of regular folks who take the same path. To all who lived a tortured existence, no matter what socioeconomic wrung they stand on, i wish them eternal peace.

 

thankful i'm not one of them.

 

agree with beemermark2k post.

 

[baggerchris]

I'm pretty sure we all at one time of another are subject to addictions to things that might kill us at some future time, but most of us for one reason or another fight it off or cure ourselves. My oldest brother died after years of heroin and then booze addiction. My middle brother was addicted to aspirin until his stomach bled out and almost killed him. I was just starting on my addiction road and then became addicted to my Wife. I started following her gentle suggestions and am now 64 and relatively free from anything other than the occasional Beer. I think sometimes it is the luck of the draw, and sometimes it is the ability to recognize or not recognize bad things that either kill you or make you stronger. I feel sorry for her but feel in the end,(if her death WAS drug related) that it was her choice to go down that road. I feel sorry for her that she was unable to get the help she needed to break free from the slavery that drug addiction is.

[beemerman2k]

I decided long ago, never to walk in anyone's shadows

If I fail, if I succeed

At least I'll live as I believe

No matter what they take from me

They can't take away my dignity

Because the greatest love of all

Is happening to me

I found the greatest love of all

Inside of me

The greatest love of all

Is easy to achieve

Learning to love yourself

It is the greatest love of all

 

Did Whitney fulfill these words? Who knows. These words certainly inspire me, that's for sure. Great lyrics to a great song

[Dan5620]

Not to hijack all the education being "spread" here, but I think the ball needs to continue to roll....so hopefully New York will lower the flag for Met Gary Carter. Dead at 57, don't know if he used drugs or if he could sing, but sure he was an icon to many...or is there some other selection filter all this goes through?

[beemerman2k]

Not to hijack all the education being "spread" here, but I think the ball needs to continue to roll....so hopefully New York will lower the flag for Met Gary Carter. Dead at 57, don't know if he used drugs or if he could sing, but sure he was an icon to many...or is there some other selection filter all this goes through?

 

When someone feels passionate about something that does not pertain to politics and does not contain offensive material, they simply start a thread in the appropriate section of this forum to discuss the matter with the group. This thread is dedicated to the memory of Whitney Houston. Given your apparent passions for baseball, feel free to initiate a thread to memorialize Gary Carter. This thread, however, is not the place for such conversation.

[Glenn Reed]

James,

 

I believe Dan is referring to the fact that the Governor of New Jersey decided to have the flags fly at half mast on Saturday for Ms. Houston., and then wondering where the line should be drawn on when such recognition is appropriate. The whole question does arise from her untimely passing, and honoring thereof. It's not so much about Gary Carter, as it is about the government recognition of her death.

[Ohio48]

^^^^ this ^^^^

[beemerman2k]

OK, I wasn't aware of this issue, thanks for pointing it out.

 

I still argue, however, that this matter belongs in a Gary Carter thread. This has nothing to do with Whitney Houston, but with Gary Carter. In fact, this very question could make for an opening volley in that thread, or in yet a different thread on the subject of the variability in how certain notable people are memorialized by the State.

 

This thread is for the memory of Whitney Houston.

[Ohio48]

I thought it was about prescription drug abuse.

[beemerman2k]

I thought it was about prescription drug abuse.

 

Yes, that's certainly the overtone of the discussion. Sadly, that subject is directly related to her so far as we know.

 

I'm just suggesting that we keep topics relatively...on topic! So a different conversation memorializing Gary Carter or questioning our govt/society practices of memorializing people would enable the free investigation of those issues without further corrupting the OP's intent in creating this thread.

[Glenn Reed]

OK, I wasn't aware of this issue, thanks for pointing it out.

 

I still argue, however, that this matter belongs in a Gary Carter thread. This has nothing to do with Whitney Houston, but with Gary Carter. In fact, this very question could make for an opening volley in that thread, or in yet a different thread on the subject of the variability in how certain notable people are memorialized by the State.

 

This thread is for the memory of Whitney Houston.

 

That's reasonable, I was just filling in some information where I saw a disconnect in the conversation.

[Ken H.]

I'm not sure that fame brings that much, if any, increased risk of overindulging and becomming addicted to something.

What it does bring though is easy access and some immunity from repercussions. Thus increasing the temptations.

[Ken H.]

If the likes of Ted Nugent can stay away from the temptation drugs or alcohol, why can't everyone else?

Because people are different. We don’t all have the same level of self-control. For example an addictive personality is a real trait amongst some. Just like OCD, obesity, or a whole list of disorders.

 

But even beyond that, many factors are involved with what starts an addiction. It’s not anywhere near as simple as, ‘if Joe can stay clean why can’t Bill?’

 

[tallman]

Ken,

Granted varying levels of self-control.

But, it often more than that.

A person with a genetic medical issue will most likely have to confront it depsite having highly developed self control.

 

I've seen people/soldiers/humans who were given pain meds as a result of a traffic collision/IED/crime victim event who had

incredible self control, were very motivated/high achievers yet became addicted.

I think I'm apologizing to thread OP and saving this for another thread.

RIP