NHTSA investigation into BMW final drives

[DiggerJim]

Here's a crosspost from ibdone list about the recently opened investigation into BMW final drives on paralever bikes (Ks now but hopefully Rs if we're lucky).

 

 

 

>

> After over 145 individual complaints filed between April 2001 and August

> 2011, the NHSTA has finally opened its first official investigation into the

> failure of crown gear bearings on BMW models equipped with the Paralever

> style final drive.  NHSTA investigation DP12001 opened 1/20/12 is centered

> on 1999-2005 K1200LTs for now.  But, if the findings are what we all believe

> they will be, the scope of the investigation should be expanded.   I found

> the only way to get NHSTA to listen and focus was to pepper its director,

> David Strickland, with repeat letters as well as inquiries from WA Senator

> Patty Murray who chairs the subcommittee over funding for the NHSTA.   If

> you have had a final drive failure on your Paralever equipped BMW, and have

> NOT already reported it to the NHSTA, I urge you do it now.>

>

> You will need your VIN, (est.) date of failure and mileage.  State your

> model as well. While they should be able to identify from VIN, their data

> was wrong 50% of the time.  Specify if gear oil leaked.

>

> www.safercar.org

>

> or call (888) 327-4236

>

> or mail to:

>

> NHSTA

> Office of Defects Investigation (NVS-210)

> West Building

> 1200 New Jersey Ave SE

> Washington DC 20590

>

>

> In your complaint, select "Power Train" as the component and reference that

> you have had the same failure as described in ODI No. 10439549, and

> currently being investigated under Campaign DP12001.

>

> Send an email to your Congressman and US Senator to follow up on your behalf

> as well.

>

 

 

[ltljohn]

This link takes you to the page to file a complaint.

[Roadwolf]

URL in text is wrong... goes to another site... FYI

 

Never mind... I see someone already beat me to the punch...

[Peter Parts]

Going from a sealed, oil-filled, single coupling driveshaft to the Paralever contraption was one of the most hilarious engineering blunders of the 20th century.

 

Ben

[TestPilot]

Mod Edit: This post was merged into this existing thread on this same topic

 

 

Jim in CT took the bull by the horns and requested NHTSA open an investigation into BMW final drive failures (see this thread: Link 1). Those wishing to read the documents relating to his complaint can go here (Link 2) and type 10439549 in the window labeled NHTSA ODI Number. On the subsequent page click on Document Search to open a separate window which allows you to view or download the documentation.

 

The result of his complaint is a NHTSA approved Defect Petition. Go here (Link 3), type DP12001 in the window labeled NHTSA Action Number, and again click Document Search on the subsequent page.

 

For those of you who have experienced fuel pump flange leaks or fractured rear wheel flanges, Jim has shown us the way to get the Feds into the act. Well done!

[TestPilot]

Dear Mod,

 

My post is probably more applicable to the fuel pump leak and rear flange crack threads since it encourages folks who have experienced those problems to follow Jim's example.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

The result of his complaint is a NHTSA approved Defect Petition. Go here (Link 3), type DP12001 in the window labeled NHTSA Action Number, and again click Document Search on the subsequent page.

 

The main body of the text at that page is here:

 

Summary:

By letter dated 11-28-2011, Christopher D. Cimino of Edmunds, WA, requested that NHTSA "open an investigation into the repeated final drive bearing failure and possibly flawed assembly controls of the final drive unit on BMW K1200LT models..." NHTSA's Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) is opening this investigation to examine Mr. Cimino's allegations and determine whether a safety-related defect trend currently exists involving final drive crown gear ball-bearing assembly failures on the subject motorcycles. The ODI report cited above can be reviewed at www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints under the following identification (ODI) number: 10439549

 

My question now is how can we encourage the NHTSA to open an investigation into the hexhead issues with cracked fuel fittings and rear wheel spiders? Cars have been recalled for far more minor things; it seems like fuel leaks and disintegrating brake rotor mounts might be enough for the NHTSA to take action.

 

Cimino apparently wrote a letter and requested an investigation. That's something more substantial than simply filing an incident report. To whom might I write such a letter regarding the above issues?

[TestPilot]

Mr. Cimino's original letter to NHTSA was addressed to David Strickland, the current Administrator (cc Ray LaHood, the Secretary of Transportation). The address used was

 

David L. Strickland

National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration

1200 New Jersey Ave SE - E West Building

Washington, DC 20590

 

His reply from NHTSA came from Nancy Lewis, the Associate Administrator for Enforcement:

 

Nancy L. Lewis

National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration

NVS-216

1200 New Jersey Ave SE - E West Building

Washington, DC 20590

 

 

[aggieengineer]

There used to be a website, www.bmwfinaldrive.com, which offered a place to collectively record details of FD failures. The website is no longer functioning, but I did take a snapshot of the list before it went down. There were 190 entries at the time.

[lkchris]

Government can only force recalls for two reasons:

 

safety

emissions

 

The FD situation has to be conclusively demonstrated to be a safety problem.

 

One such grass roots "campaign" that I'm familiar with is Mercedes engine wiring harnesses from the mid-1990s. These were in fact designed to be biodegradable and indeed they do eventually fall apart. And, yes, your engine could stop running in the middle of freeway traffic. To date NHTSA has not issued a recall. I don't know why, but I do know it takes at least 10 years for the problem to manifest. I also know there are lots of guys with $2K cars that wish the guvmint would force Mercedes to "give" them a $1K wiring harness to replace their now 15-year old and worn out harness. This "wear" BTW would have been reported to any owner that ever put his car in the hands of an experienced Mercedes mechanic.

 

Has anybody experienced/heard of an incident where a failed BMW FD has caused an accident?

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I expect there have been motorcycle engine failures due to manufacturing defects that featured oiling down the rear wheel and causing an accident. I'm not so certain an entire run of engines has ever been replaced under mandated recall, however. There are isolated incidents, of course, and there are regularly occurring incidents--"regularly" being a scientifically derived statistical term. I expect this is what it will come down to as regards BMW FDs.

 

Finally, am I correct in thinking that a reduction in fluid content in the initial batch of these drives is for the most part all that's needed to avoid problems?

 

"Government can only force recalls ..." That's the executive branch of our government--the judicial branch can hear class action suits, of course, based simply on fair business practices. Not specifically a discussion of safety but simply monetary loss. That's another thing altogether and I'm not aware of any against BMW on this issue currently. There's no "free legal aid" for this sort of thing, but there can be law firms that see sharing the monetary judgement. There was recently a law firm that thought it to their potential benefit to file regarding Mercedes engine balancer shaft sprocket failures--the case was thrown out.

[DiggerJim]

There was recently a law firm that thought it to their potential benefit to file regarding Mercedes engine balancer shaft sprocket failures--the case was thrown out.

I believe they're refiling. I've got one of those cars - they "admit" there's a problem and they'll replace it while under warranty but after that you're on your own for a $5000 repair. My car has the affected engine lot that has the old design shaft sprocket. I've got my fingers crossed - some only make it 50K miles, some 300K...hoping I have a potential 300K.

 

OTOH, they did come up with an extended warranty (10 yrs/unlimited mileage) for the old (complex) electrohydraulic braking system. Those will kill you when they fail so they'll repair them when the brake system throws the initial failures.

 

But that's why a $65K car loses 50% of its value in its first 50K miles and another 50% when it hits 5yrs/75K miles (when the warranties run out).

 

At least with my bike I can fix it myself most times :-)

[malcolmblalock]

Government can only force recalls for two reasons:

 

safety

emissions

 

The FD situation has to be conclusively demonstrated to be a safety problem.

 

One such grass roots "campaign" that I'm familiar with is Mercedes engine wiring harnesses from the mid-1990s. These were in fact designed to be biodegradable and indeed they do eventually fall apart. And, yes, your engine could stop running in the middle of freeway traffic. To date NHTSA has not issued a recall. I don't know why, but I do know it takes at least 10 years for the problem to manifest. I also know there are lots of guys with $2K cars that wish the guvmint would force Mercedes to "give" them a $1K wiring harness to replace their now 15-year old and worn out harness. This "wear" BTW would have been reported to any owner that ever put his car in the hands of an experienced Mercedes mechanic.

 

Has anybody experienced/heard of an incident where a failed BMW FD has caused an accident?

 

Just to play devil's advocate, I expect there have been motorcycle engine failures due to manufacturing defects that featured oiling down the rear wheel and causing an accident. I'm not so certain an entire run of engines has ever been replaced under mandated recall, however. There are isolated incidents, of course, and there are regularly occurring incidents--"regularly" being a scientifically derived statistical term. I expect this is what it will come down to as regards BMW FDs.

 

Finally, am I correct in thinking that a reduction in fluid content in the initial batch of these drives is for the most part all that's needed to avoid problems?

 

"Government can only force recalls ..." That's the executive branch of our government--the judicial branch can hear class action suits, of course, based simply on fair business practices. Not specifically a discussion of safety but simply monetary loss. That's another thing altogether and I'm not aware of any against BMW on this issue currently. There's no "free legal aid" for this sort of thing, but there can be law firms that see sharing the monetary judgement. There was recently a law firm that thought it to their potential benefit to file regarding Mercedes engine balancer shaft sprocket failures--the case was thrown out.

 

On the question of failures only being related to overfull final drives-- No, I don't think so. I had an 05 RT that initially had the higher amount of fluid, but was reduced as soon as the information was posted. Yet, it failed. I now own an 09 RT. The original final drive (which contained the reduced amount of fluid failed at 22K miles.

 

I don't believe the problem is with overfull final drives.

[Selden]

Despite the unhappiness of those with failed FDs (a club I haven't joined yet), I agree with your reasons about NHTSA recalls. However, the Cracks on rear wheel flange issue strikes me as life-threatening, and I hope that those owners of bikes afflicted with it will file complaints.

[lkchris]

OTOH, they did come up with an extended warranty (10 yrs/unlimited mileage) for the old (complex) electrohydraulic braking system. Those will kill you when they fail so they'll repair them when the brake system throws the initial failures.

 

Yeah, I think they took that out of Bosch's hide. Bosch had a real bad streak in early 2000s.

[dirtrider]

OTOH, they did come up with an extended warranty (10 yrs/unlimited mileage) for the old (complex) electrohydraulic braking system. Those will kill you when they fail so they'll repair them when the brake system throws the initial failures.

 

Yeah, I think they took that out of Bosch's hide. Bosch had a real bad streak in early 2000s.

 

Afternoon Kent

 

Why would they take it out of Bosch's hide on the electro/hydraulic I-ABS system?

 

That is a BMW/FTE system not a Bosch.

 

[TestPilot]

The last post on this thread was over a year ago, but an important update has occurred. NHTSA has denied the petition for a defect investigation of BMW final drive failures. Their reasoning is published in the Federal Register and can be read HERE.

[philbytx]

Yup!

"Nothing wrong here folks, move along now"

 

Easy...just check your FD's before every ride!

Everyone should buy one of Terry's FD minders now !

[Peter Parts]

+1 and thanks for update. I guess if it there are no deaths, it doesn't count in terms of their mandate.

 

Nice report, they seem to have taken the complaint seriously and gone to some trouble, except for the conclusions.

 

Say.... isn't NHTSA committing a methodological error? They failed to interview riders who died as a result of the FD failure. Sort of kidding aside, there may be a lot of mishaps that would never get "reported" anywhere or picked up by NHTSA methods.

 

Ben