ABS

[spdyjr]

I own a 2008, R1200RT, manufacturing date 12/07.

 

A few weeks after I flushed the brake fluid the brake failure light came on (steady on during riding, not flashing as at start up).

 

The GS911 indicated,

 

"24048 Power supply to pump faulty

Fault is not present now.

24049 Power supply to pump faulty

Fault is not present now."

 

My Odyssey battery reads 12.9V @ 50 degrees F with the bike off, the morning after a 20 mile trip, and goes to 14.4V at idle. Brake fluid levels are correct.

 

The bike has been driven 4 or 5 times since the light first came on with trips ranging in length from 20 to 200 miles. When the bike is turned off and then restarted and driven, sometimes the light will go out and sometimes not, but sooner or later it comes back on.

 

A Google search returns a high incidence of failures of the ABS control module in late '07 and early '08 R1200's, which is quite the spendy fix, but the symptoms of those failures don't match mine.

 

I have cleared the faults several times, but the same fault codes return each time I check them.

 

Next weekend I'll be pulling off the Tupperware and tank, etc., to check for bad connections at the ABS unit.

 

I'm hoping the timing of the failure is related to the brake fluid flush and someone out there can tell me what I did wrong, but the brakes aren't spongy at all, and I bled them the same way as JVB shows on his website, and as I've bled dozens of vehicles before.

 

Any ideas?

[dirtrider]

Afternoon spdyjr

 

Was the dash warning light (ON) when you checked the failure code(s)?

 

If not then the low "Pump Voltage" might be/have been your problem.

 

You would think any other failures like wheel sensor or low fluid would have left an additional stored code.

 

There should be two red wires hooked to the (+) battery post that supply B+ power to the ABS controller & ABS pump. Make sure those wires are tight, not broken, damaged, or corroded.

 

You have a somewhat early I-ABS-II system so it might be looking for intact tail light bulbs (the later ones put on a different light). SO, just as a precaution make sure the tail light bulbs work properly & have a proper ground. (kind of a stretch but worth eliminating)

 

Otherwise try to capture the failure code(s) when the warning light is actually still on. That should give you a current malfunction code to work with.

 

Oh, one last thing-- maybe find a gravel or dirt road & see if you have any ABS available on EITHER END with the warning light on. If you have ABS on one end but not the other that might point you at something to pursue.

 

 

[FrankBrown]

If you didn't flush in the exact sequence as stated in the repair manual, then you'll have to do the flushing again in the exact specified sequence. That's my guess.....hopefully it's that simple.

[David13]

I don't think it's related to the flush. Other than that a wire may have been pulled wrong or something during the flush.

I think if it's simple it's an electrical connection.

dc

[spdyjr]

Hey D.R.,

 

I was hoping you'd reply. You seem to have heard it all and know almost everything.

 

 

I should have mentioned that I have checked the brake light, including the old rubber mallet shock test and even cleaned the sockets and changed the bulbs (with 7506's). I have also checked the connections at the battery. After reading your reply, I went out and locked up the back brake, then the front (couldn't tell if that locked up the back too because that wheel was in the air at the time).

 

I then checked the failure code with the light on and "The fault is not present now" was the result, which makes me think that once that light comes on it is just latched. Next weekend I'll be checking out the connections at the ABS controller. Any other ideas?

 

 

Hey Frank,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I notice your RT is a 2005 model and the flushing procedure is different for your bike than mine. I don't have a current manual, just one that describes the routine for the servo brake ABS system on yours. I just used the procedure described by JVB, which is pretty much like a non-ABS brake system. Is the sequence critical in non-servo systems like mine?

 

JR

 

[spdyjr]

Hey David,

 

Thanks for your reply also; you must have made it while I was making mine.

 

I didn't get near any wires except to remove the seat to get to the rear reservoir. I hope it turns out to be simple once I get the tank and stuff off. I have done a significant amount of riding in the rain, so a corroded connector is a real possibility.

[dirtrider]

Evening spdyjr

 

On your I-ABS-II system the bleeding sequence means nothing. As long as you didn't run a reservoir dry then introduce any air into the system while bleeding then what you did bleeding should have no effect on your problem.

 

You can't check for ABS wheel lock up without riding the bike. Both wheels need to have been spinning & above a base threshold speed or it won't initiate the ABS event.

 

That fault not present is interesting. You would think that with a current malfunction it should show a failure code.

 

I can't say for sure but my guess would be you have a fault that doesn't have an associated failure code or it is non brake related (like a tail light).

 

Personally, if it were my bike I would go out & (carefully) ride the bike on a somewhat slippery surface (like dirt, or gravel, or grass) & see if it has ABS ability on each end. If it does then your problem is probably peripheral to the actual braking. If you have lack of ABS function on either end then that might give you a place to start looking.

 

[spdyjr]

Hey D.R.,

 

Well, it did show the same fault codes, 24048 and 24049, but the GS911 said after each, "The fault is not present now.".

 

I did ride the bike and left a 4' black stripe on the road with the front brake and about a 10' stripe with the back brake, so I'd say I don't have ABS function. Having done this, I discovered that the brake failure light came on when I hit the front brakes hard. I don't know if it happens when I hit the back brake hard since the light was already on when I left that black streak. I'll do some more experimenting tomorrow.

[dirtrider]

Morning spdyjr

 

 

Well it does sound like you have no ABS available so it's very possible you really do have pump power problems. I suppose it's also possible the controller only sets the " Power supply to pump faulty" when it is actually trying to run the pump then stores it as not present (the pump only runs at test & when needed).

 

One other thing to try is to see if you have the rear servo pump working. To do that-- put the bike on the center stand in neutral, then turn the key on, then apply the front brake lever, then reach over with your foot & lightly spin the rear wheel. If the servo is working the rear wheel should spin only a short ways then lock up until you release the front brake lever. Then do the same with the engine running.

Then do it with the key off (with key off the rear wheel should continue to spin with the front brake held on).

 

Other than that your next move will probably be to access the ABS controller connecter then make sure you have full 12v-14v power (at high current flow) to red wire's terminal number (1) & (32). (It looks like #1 wire is the high current supply). Then check for a good ground (high current ability) return to battery on brown wire terminal number 47.

 

[spdyjr]

Hey D.R.,

 

I've been out of town on business and just read your recommendations. I've moved the bike to my man cave and will be following up in the morning.

 

One thing I noticed before I took it off the center stand was that there was no longer a bubble visible in the front reservoir sight glass. So I'm also going to bleed out some fluid until I can see a bubble again. Also, on the way to the man cave, I made the brake failure light come on by coming to a stop with the back brake only (light didn't come on at that point), then squeezing the front brake lever hard. This was repeatable.

 

I'll let you know what I discovered tomorrow.

 

Once again, I appreciate your input. I have learned a lot from your replies on other issues on this forum.

 

JR

[spdyjr]

Hey D.R.

 

Didn''t have time to update you before I was called out of town before my prearranged schedule.

 

When I hooked up the GS911, the failure was present this time. Doing your rear wheel/front brake test produced the following results:

 

Key off, rear wheel spins

Key on, spins a short way, then locks

Key on, engine running, same as "Key on"

 

I also took the tank off , disconnected the ABS controller connector and inspected for signs of dirt and corrosion, found none, reconnected, and checked for battery across the two heaviest gauge wires through the insulation at the connector. These are two red and one brown wires that are the same gauge that I assume power the pump motor and these read the same as battery from either red wire to the brown wire.

 

And the faults are currently present according to the GS911 and they will no longer clear.

 

I am planning to take it to the dealer tomorrow for the brake line recall. Just got a new dealer within easy driving distance. Don't see any wear anywhere on the front brake lines. What's up with that anyway? But I want to be able to say it's been done if and when I sell it. If I don't figure this out today, I just be paying the dealer to diagnose it after the recall work. I wish the problem would go intermittent again so it would fail while they were test driving. Then, "Hey you broke my bike!". Kidding......sort of.

 

JR

[dirtrider]

I am planning to take it to the dealer tomorrow for the brake line recall. Just got a new dealer within easy driving distance. Don't see any wear anywhere on the front brake lines. What's up with that anyway? But I want to be able to say it's been done if and when I sell it. If I don't figure this out today, I just be paying the dealer to diagnose it after the recall work. I wish the problem would go intermittent again so it would fail while they were test driving. Then, "Hey you broke my bike!". Kidding......sort of.

 

JR

 

Afternoon JR

 

Hopefully your dealer can shed some light on the ABS problem.

 

On that brake line recall-- you probably won't see any problems as the original lines will probably never give the average low mileage rider any problem.

 

The issue is-- the ABS controller is soft (cushion) mounted but the brake lines are solid metal lines (not flex lines) so as the motorcycle is bounced along over bumps & potholes the ABS controller can move about & flex those solid brake lines (usually right next to the fittings) Duh!!!.

 

The new improved lines still have no designed in flex in them but they have a reinforced area added where the fittings attach at the ABS controller. (still questionable in my mind)

 

Personally a first year engineering student (even a very dumb one) should have foreseen that brake line cracking issue & never let it get to production. Sometimes BMW engineering really baffles me.

 

[Alfred02]

Personally a first year engineering student (even a very dumb one) should have foreseen that brake line cracking issue & never let it get to production. Sometimes BMW engineering really baffles me.

That's because in Germany we have really smooth roads and expect other countries to have the same LOL

[spdyjr]

Status update for anyone who had been following this issue:

 

The dealer determined that the $1886 ABS pump/controller was defective on my out of warranty by 7 months RT.

 

After a little back and forth between the dealer and I and the dealer and Bmw service rep, I ended up with 4 hours labor charge for the repair. I believe I could change it out myself in 2 hours (I had the tank off during my troubleshooting tasks.), but I feel fortunate that BMW provided the replacement part. Both Pensacola's service department manager and their master mechanic were very profession and apperently persuasive when working with BMW's service rep.

 

Props to all.

 

 

 

[Jaguar]

I had an ABS pump die on my out of warranty '07 R1200R. When the mechanic called and said $2400.00 for parts and labor, I said forget it. Button it up and I'll ride it as a non ABS bike. Next day, he called and said he contacted BMWNA. They agreed to cover 75% of the bill and I could get out the door for $600.00. That sounded reasonable and had a new pump installed.

[spdyjr]

During my investigation of this problem I found that there was a high incidencce of failure on the late 07 and early 08 ABS units. Your experience confirms that.

 

And where in heck did you find that avatar?

[Jaguar]

I've had that picture for awhile now and don't remember what site I found it on. I thought it was cool at the time and saved it.

[ESokoloff]

I've had that picture for awhile now and don't remember what site I found it on. I thought it was cool at the time and saved it.

 

google (image... in this case) is a wonderful thing.

 

http://www.ridingintohistory.org/don-bradley/

[spdyjr]

That is just too cool, thanks.

[Jaguar]

Yup, ridingintohistory.org. Thanks for jogging my memory