Is it just me, or do you also think there's more to it?

[Polo]

I just read this, and somehow seemed to me a bit extreme.

 

Not to minimize any one's plight, but a SEAL incursion to rescue a school teacher?

 

And what about the other hostages including a journalist?.

 

 

[tallman]

No more drastic than sinking pirates at sea.

These are criminal, kidnappers, whose only motivation is money, crime for profit, and these crims were not negotiating in good faith.

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

Little to no intel on the ground in all likelihood. No friendly support within the borders.

At the very, very least and this isn't all that likely, it's a good practice run.

Other approaches might well have gotten the hostages killed or moved before rescue.

[Kathy R]

If I were in that situation I'd be thrilled if my government found a way to rescue me. Thrilled! I bet the SEALS felt pretty darn good too! And as was said before me, not all situations are the same, so perhaps not all rescues are possible. From what I read the time and logistics were just right for this rescue.

[pbharvey]

American citizens deserve the full support of American resources as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather pay my tax dollars to carry out a rescue instead of purchasing solar panels.

[Polo]

f I were in that situation I'd be thrilled if my government found a way to rescue me. Thrilled! I bet the SEALS felt pretty darn good too!

American citizens deserve the full support of American resources as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather pay my tax dollars to carry out a rescue instead of purchasing solar panels.

 

No question about that, just that we don't see this happening all that often. It strikes me as a specifically directed display of muscle.

[Jaguar]

I find it difficult to believe that The Government would choose between a school teacher or a journalist. The bottom line is their all Americans. When any American is held captive somewhere in the world, they are on the Governments radar. At the risk of killing a hostage or a Seal member, useing intelligence, they patiently wait for the exact moment to strike. This just happened to be her moment.

God bless the U.S.A.

[Polo]

I find it difficult to believe that The Government would choose between a school teacher or a journalist. The bottom line is their all Americans. When any American is held captive somewhere in the world, they are on the Governments radar. At the risk of killing a hostage or a Seal member, useing intelligence, they patiently wait for the exact moment to strike. This just happened to be her moment.

God bless the U.S.A.

 

I was afraid of someone interpreting it the wrong way. Don't read beyond what I wrote.

 

What I meant by identifying her as school teacher was in contrast to what would be a perceived strategic relevance attached to a government official or other kind of public figure. Of course any American is as important as the next, but this isn't an every day occurrence and that is my emphasis.

[pbharvey]

I think the world needs to know (and Pirates especially) that if you kidnap an American, all hell is going to break loose and you will be killed. We'll send in Seals to rescue a school teacher, a senator, or a trash collector. Any American at risk is worthy of our efforts.

[Mister Tee]

I'm quite happy with the decision, and the outcome.

[Kathy R]

It strikes me as a specifically directed display of muscle.

 

Try as I may I couldn't get into that frame of mind.

[Paul Mihalka]

I think nothing wrong with a display of muscle to Somali pirates. Maybe they think twice the next time.

[longjohn]

I just read this, and somehow seemed to me a bit extreme.

 

Not to minimize any one's plight, but a SEAL incursion to rescue a school teacher?

 

And what about the other hostages including a journalist?.

 

It doesn't seem extreme to me at all. It would seem all other avenues of securing their release had been tried.

 

As far as the other hostages are concerned, well, things maybe in the works. One thing at a time.

 

I am curious as to what you think the "more to it" may be?

[David13]

Maybe he means maybe she is not just a school teacher. Maybe he means she is really a school teacher/postal worker. Or maybe school teacher/import export technician.

dc

[MT Wallet]

Timing is everthing. This one is a little curious. I'm glad they did it. Why 1/24/2012? Hmmmm-let me think.

[Bob Palin]

The "schoolteacher", or as I prefer to think of her "United States Citizen", was sick and her health was becoming an issue according to the VP.

[Mike]

I rather like the idea of conveying this message: "If you kidnap and endanger the lives of American citizens, we will hunt you down, kill every last one of you if we have to, and take our people home."

 

It's not feasible to react this way in every instance, but I firmly believe that the only way to effectively deal with barbarians is through overwhelming force. Thank goodness we have the military capability to do these things.

 

My hat's off to our SF operators.

[Mike]

Timing is everthing. This one is a little curious. I'm glad they did it. Why 1/24/2012? Hmmmm-let me think.

 

The eve of Rabbie Burns' birthday!

[JohnnyJ]

To stay sharp the SEAL team members need real-life experience. It gets them away from the gym and training field for a while. It also makes for good PR for the Prez.

 

If you are an American citizen and you travel or live outside the U.S., then do so at your own risk. Don't expect me to be overly sympathetic when you put yourself in harm's way and something bad happens.

 

I like to see the U.S. kick-ass against the bad guy as much as anyone else, but how would we feel if some foreign nation sent a squadron of military aircraft to our country to deal with a similar situation?

 

 

Johnny J

[Bob Palin]

I like to see the U.S. kick-ass against the bad guy as much as anyone else, but how would we feel if some foreign nation sent a squadron of military aircraft to our country to deal with a similar situation?

 

I'd feel just fine about it if we had no government, army or police force and nobody was taking any legal action against a band of criminals that had kidnapped people.

[pbharvey]

but how would we feel if some foreign nation sent a squadron of military aircraft to our country to deal with a similar situation?

 

You mean like if the Mexicans cleaned up their own mess the drug lords have made here on our soil? As long as they take their own good guys home and kill their own bad guys, its fine by me.

[Whip]

Could happen to anyone

[moshe_levy]

You mean like if the Mexicans cleaned up their own mess the drug lords have made here on our soil?

 

Huh? What's the parallel here?

 

-MKL

[BFish]

It strikes me as a specifically directed display of muscle.

 

Try as I may I couldn't get into that frame of mind.

 

 

..and i love it. we've got the Seals, they're qualified and the world needs to know we will use them wherever and whenever.

[JohnnyJ]

There are a lot of tough-talkers here but at some point you have to do a cost analysis and make the decision to walk away. How many millions were spent on this? If this region is so lawless and unsafe, then... YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

 

I don't want our nations wealth to be squandered on risk takers and people that do foolish things.

 

 

Johnny J

[Kathy R]

It strikes me as a specifically directed display of muscle.

 

Try as I may I couldn't get into that frame of mind.

 

 

..and i love it. we've got the Seals, they're qualified and the world needs to know we will use them wherever and whenever.

 

Yes.

 

Sorry, but my response was too brief in that it leads to the wrong point. I was referring to my perception that Polo thought the rescue was timed for the benefit of the meeting in Congress last night. To think that I would consider myself jaded. I believe the rescue was timed for the greatest success, in view of the health of the captives.

[pbharvey]

You mean like if the Mexicans cleaned up their own mess the drug lords have made here on our soil?

 

Huh? What's the parallel here?

 

-MKL

 

 

Not exactly a parallel but we do have some "pirates" (drug smugglers, gangs, etc.) on our soil who terrorize people. Since we are having a difficult time cleaning them up, I'd have no problem with the Mexican officials crossing the border and sniping them, especially if they were holding Mexican citizens hostage.

 

 

[pbharvey]

There are a lot of tough-talkers here but at some point you have to do a cost analysis and make the decision to walk away. How many millions were spent on this? If this region is so lawless and unsafe, then... YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

 

I don't want our nations wealth to be squandered on risk takers and people that do foolish things.

 

 

Johnny J

 

I think there's a big difference between walking around a field full of cheetahs (reference the I love cats thread) and someone on a humanitarian mission to help ease others' suffering.

[Mike]

I don't want our nations wealth to be squandered on risk takers and people that do foolish things.

 

 

Johnny J

 

That's the very definition of Americans, ain't it?

 

I understand your point--and, of course, we'll perhaps never know the full story--but I think we need to stand ready to defend American interests abroad when lawlessness threatens.

 

It may be a misplaced sense of bravado, but I believe that in the present world our military forces are best put to use in limited pin-point strikes. Of course, it takes a huge amount of resources to bring these highly targeted efforts to bear.

 

Regardless of the "big picture," I salute the people with the skill, dedication and courage to undertake these missions.

[Polo]

It strikes me as a specifically directed display of muscle.

 

Try as I may I couldn't get into that frame of mind.

 

 

..and i love it. we've got the Seals, they're qualified and the world needs to know we will use them wherever and whenever.

 

Yes.

 

Sorry, but my response was too brief in that it leads to the wrong point. I was referring to my perception that Polo thought the rescue was timed for the benefit of the meeting in Congress last night. To think that I would consider myself jaded. I believe the rescue was timed for the greatest success, in view of the health of the captives.

 

I didn't say that I "thought the rescue was timed for the benefit of the meeting in Congress". I said it seemed like there was more to it than just that.

 

Of course someone could milk it in that sense, if someone had the authority to order something like this at a convenient window of opportunity.

[Kathy R]

Sorry, but my response was too brief in that it leads to the wrong point. I was referring to my perception that Polo thought the rescue was timed for the benefit of the meeting in Congress last night. To think that I would consider myself jaded. I believe the rescue was timed for the greatest success, in view of the health of the captives.

 

I didn't say that I "thought the rescue was timed for the benefit of the meeting in Congress".

 

Of course you didn't. Please read above in red

 

 

Of course someone could milk it in that sense, if someone had the authority to order something like this at a convenient window of opportunity.

 

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you say that

[plext]

This type of scenario is one of the prime training targets for special operations teams and one of the main reasons that civilised nations hold such teams.

 

This very situation plays out much more often than most people realise, it is the publicity that is unusual in this case.

[Polo]

Of course you didn't. Please read above in red

 

 

Of course someone could milk it in that sense, if someone had the authority to order something like this at a convenient window of opportunity.

 

Somehow, I'm not surprised that you say that

 

Ok, I stand corrected. You didn't say I said, you just said you perceived that I might have meant that.

[Polo]

This type of scenario is one of the prime training targets for special operations teams and one of the main reasons that civilised nations hold such teams.

 

This very situation plays out much more often than most people realise, it is the publicity that is unusual in this case.

 

Yes, very unusual that this would make the papers. As a closing remark, it just goes to show how the SEALs accomplish so much; and Americans would too if they had each other's back.

[Kathy R]

Ok, I stand corrected. You didn't say I said, you just said you perceived that I might have meant that.

 

Exactamachaholly,

[JohnnyJ]

we'll perhaps never know the full story--but I think we need to stand ready to defend American interests abroad when lawlessness threatens.

 

Regardless of the "big picture," I salute the people with the skill, dedication and courage to undertake these missions.

 

 

"Never know the full story" is KEY to this discussion.

 

And I agree 100% with the rest of your statement

 

 

Johnny J

[moshe_levy]

You mean like if the Mexicans cleaned up their own mess the drug lords have made here on our soil?

 

Huh? What's the parallel here?

 

-MKL

 

 

Not exactly a parallel but we do have some "pirates" (drug smugglers, gangs, etc.) on our soil who terrorize people. Since we are having a difficult time cleaning them up, I'd have no problem with the Mexican officials crossing the border and sniping them, especially if they were holding Mexican citizens hostage.

 

 

No parallel at all. You would have no problem with another nation's military entering our sovereign land and conducting assassinations? This is not Somalia here. I think you would be in the very, very fringes with such an opinion, especially if one of your loved ones is caught in the crossfire. The issue of Mexican drug lords is not one where America has clean hands with which to suggest such action. It is our demand that creates the supply in the first place, and our smuggled guns which they use to do their killing with. They did not magically become fabulously wealthy and well armed, did they?

 

That has nothing to do with this raid we're discussing here.

 

Here, as usual, the SEALS demonstrate incredible talent and professionalism. Obviously the intricate details are never revealed to the public, nor perhaps the true motive, but surely from the few facts that have been presented to us, this raid is cause for unbridled celebration - yet another success in what has been a very good couple of years of foreign policy.

 

-MKL

[Quinn]

Maybe it was timed so all their at home coaches would be busy and not able to watch it on live tv as if it were a football game.

 

-----

 

 

[Kathy R]

Maybe it was timed so all their at home coaches would be busy and not able to watch it on live tv as if it were a football game.

 

-----

 

 

Seriously? Tell me you forgot to add the ( ) ?

[Rougarou]

There are a lot of tough-talkers here but at some point you have to do a cost analysis and make the decision to walk away. How many millions were spent on this? If this region is so lawless and unsafe, then... YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

 

I don't want our nations wealth to be squandered on risk takers and people that do foolish things.

 

 

Johnny J

 

How much is an American life worth to you, one million, ten million, hundred million? How about an American life that is willing to risk that life to help others that are less fortunate than the American people?,....I'd say priceless.

 

In 2007, I was attached to the 31st MEU. We had just returned from exercises in the PI. We got the word that we were needed in Indonesia. Our port is Okinawa, Japan, the time to get to Indonesia is 18 days transit time. We refitted the unit so as to have the most people on our big deck and send the little boys to Hong Kong for a public relations visit. 18 days transit there, hang out for six hours and 18 days transit back. Why did we go? As a "just in case", as in just in case they needed to evacuate POTUS. How much did that little excursion costs us, who cares, it was worth it,....."just in case".

 

On a side not, HoA is not that far from the raid site, logistics costs were probably minimal and nothing beats training like real life training.

[Dave McReynolds]

Trying to compare an incursion into Somalia with an incursion into the US is like trying to compare a discussion of theology with Jim Jones with a discussion of theology with the Pope.

[JohnnyJ]

There are a lot of tough-talkers here but at some point you have to do a cost analysis and make the decision to walk away. How many millions were spent on this? If this region is so lawless and unsafe, then... YOU SHOULDN'T BE THERE.

 

I don't want our nations wealth to be squandered on risk takers and people that do foolish things.

 

 

Johnny J

 

How much is an American life worth to you, one million, ten million, hundred million? How about an American life that is willing to risk that life to help others that are less fortunate than the American people?,....I'd say priceless.

 

In 2007, I was attached to the 31st MEU. We had just returned from exercises in the PI. We got the word that we were needed in Indonesia. Our port is Okinawa, Japan, the time to get to Indonesia is 18 days transit time. We refitted the unit so as to have the most people on our big deck and send the little boys to Hong Kong for a public relations visit. 18 days transit there, hang out for six hours and 18 days transit back. Why did we go? As a "just in case", as in just in case they needed to evacuate POTUS. How much did that little excursion costs us, who cares, it was worth it,....."just in case".

 

On a side not, HoA is not that far from the raid site, logistics costs were probably minimal and nothing beats training like real life training.

 

 

This country is going down if flames economically because of this type of thinking.

 

BTW: I am a Vietnam era veteran and I've seen the waste first hand. It's only gotten worse.

 

If we were really interested in saving lives we could dump some of the wasteful military spending and channel it to the healthcare needs of the citizens here.

 

All I am trying to convey here is BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK.

 

 

 

Johnny J

[Rougarou]

 

 

This country is going down if flames economically because of this type of thinking.

 

BTW: I am a Vietnam era veteran and I've seen the waste first hand. It's only gotten worse.

 

If we were really interested in saving lives we could dump some of the wasteful military spending and channel it to the healthcare needs of the citizens here.

 

All I am trying to convey here is BANG-FOR-THE-BUCK.

 

 

 

Johnny J

 

So, what is the life worth, how much money, what price do you put on someone's life? Since you are so concerned about the health of someone, take a look at who was rescued, the rescue was health care at it's finest for at least one, it likely saved a life or four.

[moshe_levy]

This country is going down if flames economically because of this type of thinking.

 

One can make a pretty reasonable case that the country is going down in flames morally because of this type of thinking, which tries to assign a dollar value to a citizen's life. Not a far leap from the cheering that erupted at a certain event not too long ago when the question was posed about letting those without health care "just die."

 

I'd venture to say it's all dollars and cents - until it's your life or your loved ones on the line. Then, all of a sudden, just perhaps there would be more to consider than the almighty dollar. I'm not a vet (though I do thank all vets for their service) - just a taxpayer who was very happy to see my money utilized to rescue one of our own so bravely.

 

-MKL

[Mike]

I'd just add that I think the calculus involves more than just the possibility of saving two lives. For better or worse, it has implications beyond the plot of these two hostages. In a barbaric world--and particularly in a country where anarchy reigns--it seems that there's a good deal of value in assigning negative consequences to piracy, disrupting the work of NGOs through kidnappings, and similarly dastardly acts.

 

In a more perfect world, this sort of consideration would not come into play. However, ours is a world occupied by hatred, greed, and violence. Sometimes those things have to be confronted.

[ArmyGuy]

You can bet that there were hundreds of man-hours invested in this, and others like this, type of operation. Once the 'homework' is done some type of trigger must be met to initiate the operation. I sincerely doubt that time of day (in the US) or day of week had anything to do with the trigger being met.

[David13]

 

I think there's a big difference between walking around a field full of cheetahs (reference the I love cats thread) and someone on a humanitarian mission to help ease others' suffering.

 

Let us leave the cats out of this. I can assure you that the cats have nothing to do with this. So let us leave the cats out of this.

I can also assure you, that walking around in a field of cats, if you know what you are doing, and if you know the cats, and if the cats know you, is no big deal.

 

PS I hope you enjoyed my cat thread.

dc

[Danny caddyshack Noonan]

How many millions were spent on this?

 

The rejected ransom was 1 Million.

So, they spent some on fuel. Camp Lemonnier is a short hop. It probably would have been burned in another fashion. Maybe to help burn the trash.

They spent a little on ammo.

Maybe they didn't recover their 'chutes.

 

There really isn't much of an out of pocket expense to the government since no one gets overtime.

[Selden]

Two people who were doing important humanitarian work rescued from kidnappers; 9 dead kidnappers. That sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

[bmw_rider]

[/quote}]I like to see the U.S. kick-ass against the bad guy as much as anyone else, but how would we feel if some foreign nation sent a squadron of military aircraft to our country to deal with a similar situation?

 

 

Johnny J

 

The difference is that if the kidnapping occured in the US then the US would be the first ones to go in after the citizen regardless of where they were from! We wouldn't be waiting for a foriegn force to act.