No more Capital Reef Inn for me in Torrey

[tgregg]

Not sure how you all feel about Wilderness groups but Capital Reef Inn at Torrey is a business member of a group trying to lock up all the off road areas to hiking only.

 

http://www.suwa.org/business_members/

[Whip]

Boulder Mountain Lodge/Hells Backbone Grill as well.

 

 

 

[Bob Palin]

Oh, so this is how my Facebook page erupted into flames...

 

I hate SUWA, based on an older personal experience and more recent contact with some of the members.

 

As I said on FB, this is my position:

 

I do not want to ride my ATV/bike in wilderness. I do not want to ride my ATV/bike off the established roads and trails in non-wilderness. I do want to retain, and in many cases retake, the areas that have been taken away and oppose the closing of any more areas to road/trail use.

 

Furthermore I do not accept that because some people will not follow the rules my liberty should be curtailed. (I'm sure some of us occasionally break traffic rules - should we all be banned from riding?)

[Bob Palin]

Sadly Uinta Brewery and tragically Squatters Brewery are also members.

 

[azkaisr]

Sadly Uinta Brewery and tragically Squatters Brewery are also members.

 

But I thought it was all Black and White?

[Bob Palin]

Sadly Uinta Brewery and tragically Squatters Brewery are also members.

 

But I thought it was all Black and White?

Guinness is black and white, and that is what I shall drink.

[mbelectric]

What Killer said.

 

But/

 

Fill me in...

 

Is this Fed BLM land, Ntl. forest, or State?

 

MB>

[Bob Palin]

Is this Fed BLM land, Ntl. forest, or State?

 

MB>

Any and all of it. For instance in this immediate area they are campaigning to have Boulder Top closed to motorized use which is a mix of National Forest and BLM land. It's been grazed for 100 years and has many dirt roads, absolutely no way it could be considered wilderness. They were heavily involved in getting the Swing Arm City OHV area near Caineville almost completely closed (an endangered cactus was the official excuse), but they wanted it as 'wilderness' - an OHV area!

[Bullett]

Well, a lot of folks in Utah like the idea of having wilderness. I was a member of Suwa until the leadership change and they pissed me off somehow. I really liked Brent Caulkin, the old Executive Director of SUWA. I still have a t-shirt with his picture on it.

 

[ESokoloff]

Not sure how you all feel about Wilderness groups but Capital Reef Inn at Torrey is a business member of a group trying to lock up all the off road areas to hiking only.

 

http://www.suwa.org/business_members/

 

I am not a Tree Huger but I thank them & others that have enabled me to enjoy the wilderness areas I have visited.

If indeed this group is attempting to close ALL off road areas then that is wrong.

There needs to be a ballance.

 

Looking here, I see a relatively small section of the state set aside as wilderness.

 

Just because an area becomes wilderness doesn't mean it cant still be enjoyed.

Also horses are allowed in wilderness areas.

[Bob Palin]

Few reasonable people would have a problem setting aside wilderness as a reserved area (though there are certainly some people that do object). The problem is that most of the area now being proposed isn't wilderness at all, it has been used for over 100 years and is full of dirt roads, mines, grazed areas etc. There is some unprotected wilderness and that should be protected IMHO. The wilderness people use the fact that land can't be returned to wilderness condition as a reason to protect it, yet they want to designate non-wilderness areas as reserved at the same time.

[ESokoloff]

I obviously don't know enough about this particular situation to make anything other then generalized statements.

It's been a relatively short period of time that Wilderness Areas have come to be.

Some areas will take longer then others to make a full return.

 

Case in point...

This is in the Sespe Wilderness that became that about 20 years ago.

The area experienced a fire the year before we visited.

A few years later & the vegetation will once again obscure the Hodaka but it will remain for quite some time.

 

For what it's worth, my buddy Doug & I tore up the deserts of SoCal in our younger days.

 

[Rougarou]

I went through this when I was into off-roading and one of the best, if not THE best OHV area on the east coast is now closed. Tellico OHV area remains closed eventhough the majority of the trail users practiced Tread Lightly and remained on designated trails.

 

I try not to support any organizations that promote the full closure of public lands. And while I am no longer banging up the rocks with my Jeep, I will continue not to support total closure of those lands so that many more can tread lightly with their mechanical beasts on the trails.

[mbelectric]

I understand "full closure" meaning that foot travel and some horseback being permitted. That said, this should apply to some areas that we need to set aside so that land may be preserved for such future use as such. No wilderness areas would be a bad thing.

 

While I do not know enough about the area in question, I do however support setting aside land in such a manner. I really don't feel the need to ride everywhere, and wouldn't expect to impose that wish on the rest of the public.

 

From Bob's description, sounds like this area shouldn't apply.

 

MB>

[Paul Mihalka]

The problem with all the different "green" groups is that they are not wrong in their basic concept but they all tend to promote actions that only the most extremist "greens" would approve.

[Thylacine]

As a Utahn who grew up in central Utah and still maintains a weekend house there, Torrey is increasingly being taken over by, um, liberal refugees from the Salt Lake area who see it as their home away from home. Head up the road a ways to Bicknell, Lyman or Loa, and you'll find only the typical, conservative rural Utahns.

 

That said, I used to belong to the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA), but gave it up a few years ago as the group became increasingly reflective of its northern Utah environmental activist mindset, and in the process lost sight of almost any pretense of being a southern Utah-based organization. Besides, I was never particularly in favor of their reliance on law suits and the courts to promoting their agendas.

 

Still, I support the establishment of wilderness in Utah — especially southern Utah. Some of the most spectacular vistas, desert scenery, red rock cliffs and amazing territory in the country are here. Just in the past 20 years, ATVs have crisscrossed the formerly remote and nearly pristine San Rafael Swell with endless roads, scarred hillsides and in the process destroyed some of the most serene and beautiful landscapes in the world. Similarly, just east of Capitol Reef, the Factory Butte area has turned into a near wasteland of ATV tracks that scar the ground and the hillsides in every direction for miles.

 

There certainly needs to be balance, but a free-for-all with off-road ATV and other traffic is a good recipe for destroying the very thing that makes southern Utah remarkable. There are some areas that should be kept as they always were — places where people can go, where few other signs of human beings exist and where, in the process, people can gain an appreciation of nature and how things were for many thousands of years before we showed up with our dirt bikes, ATVs, 4WD trucks, uranium extraction mines, fences, graveled roads and other conveniences of the modern world. If we don't do this now, in another 25, 30 or 50 years, there will be little wilderness left, and that will be a loss that can never be recovered.

[Rougarou]

That's why there is a need to tread lightly. In Tellico, a trail system was in place and it was forbidden to go "off trail". The trails were clearly marked and if one was off trail and a ranger caught you, it would be a big, big fine.

 

Even on private land, such as Coal Creek OHV, which is over 70,000 acres, the trails are clearly marked. If you go off trail there, you get booted from the park. Some trails are designated for the "ants"(ATV's & motorcycles) only, others are for 4WD's and Buggies.

 

A wilderness area can still be a wilderness area with room for all to enjoy. It just has to be monitored and taken care of.

[bobmorris]

You state "Also horses are allowed in wilderness areas."

 

In essence this is correctbut in actuallity it is very incorrect.

 

A few years back there was an event held that was a horse ride from Teasdale to Kanab 50 miles a day for five days. It was a very nice horseback ride up over Boulder and then down through the slick rock country and finally the Paria river country.

 

Now the controlling agencies limit "he number of heartbeats" in any group of people entering the area. SO NO MORE EQUINE ENDURANCE RIDE THROUGH THAT COUNTRY.

 

Interesting that the sponsor of the ride was a USFS top employee and he got shafted.

 

Bob Morris

 

 

[ESokoloff]

I have to wounder if trail quotas are in effect here vs outright ban on equestrians that prohibit this event from taking place.

[Thylacine]

This is in the Sespe Wilderness that became that about 20 years ago.

The area experienced a fire the year before we visited.

A few years later & the vegetation will once again obscure the Hodaka but it will remain for quite some time.

 

For what it's worth, my buddy Doug & I tore up the deserts of SoCal in our younger days.

 

Dang! That looks like the skeletal remnants of an early '70s Hodaka Wombat. Whatever it is, it's seen better days. I assume that kick starter was a little stiff.

 

[Beagler]

Thanks for the heads up. I'am not an off road rider but I totally suport their right to properly use public land. I will not be using any of the services or products of any member of SUWA.