Modify stock exhaust 1150RT?

[donhallman]

From my harley days I would use a die grinder and cut the weld at the exhaust opening and pull out the baffle. Going for the sound at the time, don't know if it helped performance or not. Anyone have experience with doing this on a Beemer? Any performance difference?

[Ken H.]

Why?

 

You'll not improve the performance of the bike significantly, you'll make more noise to irritate others, degrading the image of our sport further in the process.

 

Do the bike, yourself, and the rest of the planet a favor: Break away from the loud crowd! Leave the exhaust system to work as it was designed.

[ednap]

I'll second that. Just don't understand the facination some bikers have with the need for more sound and the belief you have to pump the throttle that extra bit as you slow down.

 

I leave for work around 6:00 am and know for a fact my neighbours appreciate I ride a Beemer. Not only do they say it looks great but they appreciate the quiet too

[Matts_12GS]

I want to move next door to Ken just so I can get liquored up run my loud bikes at all hours of the night!

 

Sorry man, I can't help but feel this whole approach to making the BMW sound a bit better is kind of silly. Yes, there are those that abuse the rights of others with painfully loud pipes on their bar hoppers, yes, some cities are uptight about the noise of motorcycles etc., and some of these are definitely not suburb friendly... But, is that really reasonable? Let there be noise statutes, but let there be room for adding individual touches to our bikes!

[Tool Man]

Hey guys....let's not beat -up on him....he asked a legitamte question.

 

Don....removing the baffle will not gain you any performance at all. In fact, it has yet to been proven with dyno figures by any post I've read, that after market exhaust such as a Remus, or others will significantly improve power anywhere in the band. The ONLY benefit you gain by an after market exhaust is a weight reduction. On an RT, who cares it's a boat as it is and 20lbs. down low you won't notice...much. You mention pulling the baffle on your Harley was for the sound at the time. Since this sounds like it's your first BMW, I don't think you'll like the sound of this twin as much as your Harley.

 

Since the suspension is the weekest link on the RT's, save your money, and time, to buy quality shocks. In the meantime, I think you'll come to enjoy hearing yourself think, and being able to converse with a passenger.

 

 

Oh....and welcome to the BMW group.

[RPG]

Don, welcome to the board. I came over from Harley's years ago. That being the case, I knew BMW's were different. With a BMW you listen to the engine. With Harley, most guys want to hear the exhaust. Why people want that noise is beyond me, but some never seem to grow up I guess. Had a "94 Electra Glide years ago and loved the sound of the stock motor, but I think I was in the minority to say the least.

 

I too have thought about louder exhaust for my RT. But like others have said, you're wasting your money. The sound might be improved, but the performance gains are rarely worth the several hundered dollars invested.

 

Instead, spend your money on the most important thing on the bike.....yourself. Sign up for a Track Day and learn how to ride, I mean really ride. You'll have a blast on your RT and become a better Pilot in everyday situations in the process.

 

Rick G.

[upflying]

A loud BMW actually sounds pretty awful compared to a Harley. Harley's sound great because of thier uneven firing order. I think BMW designed the muffler to be quiet to prevent rider embarrassment.

[DavidEBSmith]

Anybody who attended the Boxer Cup races at Daytona would agree that an open exhaust on a Boxer is not a good thing. I think Knappy accurately described the sound as "flatulent". If you were drawing a cartoon, the sound bubble coming out of the BMW would say "BLEHHHHHHHH!" Whether you think loud pipes are cool or not in general, on a Boxer motor, they're not.

[russell_bynum]

A loud BMW actually sounds pretty awful compared to a Harley. Harley's sound great because of thier uneven firing order. I think BMW designed the muffler to be quiet to prevent rider embarrassment.

 

 

I want a loud pipe on my RT to cover the sound of the transmission.

[Softtail]

Man, you caught a lot of crap on that one!! I have to agree with most of the responces, I might get rid of the stock exhaust, but I would never try to modify one. That being said, there are a bunch of after market exhaust systems out there. I replaced my stock exhaust with a stainless steel Stayintune system. It replaces the stock system from the header pipes back. In the process, you rid yourself of the cat converter and drop about 3-4 kilos of excess weight. I really didn't notice any vast improvement in performance (actually none), but the bike is somewhat louder, though not annoyingly so, at least, not to me. Per the manufacturer, it has "a tune you could dance to". I also came to BMW from the hog world and still ride a souped up 1991 FXSTC with a very loud 2 into 1 Supertrap. After riding the RT for a couple of years, always with a full face helmet, it is really hard to except the cacophony of sound eminating from the hog. Of course, I have to wear a black beanie of a helmet when profiling on the FX. I really think my hearing has suffered accordinly!!

[baggerchris]

First off let me say that I now agree with Ken and Donna, but I did what I did. I put a Staintune on Bonbon, which with the removable baffle gives me two distint sounds, and eliminated all surging. I like to ride her with the baffle out as she now sings sort of like a Ducati or MotoGuzzi. (no offense to those two magnificent makes, and I am sure the real things do sound better)I am very happy with the way she now sounds and would not willingly go back. I will say that there is no comparison between the Staintune and some of the Harley pipes that my friends use such as the Thunderheader, which are deafening. To me, the Staintune's are very mellow and sweet sounding.

[russell_bynum]

First off let me say that I now agree with Ken and Donna, but I did what I did. I put a Staintune on Bonbon, which with the removable baffle gives me two distint sounds, and eliminated all surging.

 

Please explain how switching exhausts eliminated surging.

[baggerchris]

I took off the cat converter; eliminated the ccp, added a potentiometer and the staintune. There was some discussion on this board that eliminating the ccp would create too much of a rich condition for the cat converter and would maybe foul it up. If I was to do it all over again, I would leave everything stock and try and fix the surging with a techlusion or nanny or some other method, and since I have all the parts, I may get around to it yet. So yes, just using a staintune was not the whole story, and in the end, I now have no surge and a very nice running motor. Too bad BMW couldn't have made it work correctly from the get go.

[russell_bynum]

Thanks for the rest of the story.

 

I figured it was something like that, but wanted to be sure.

[baggerchris]

Actually, an incomplete post like I did is a bad thing to do as it might give someone a wrong picture of a situation. Thank you for asking the question and giving me a chance to straighten things out.

[Berts]

In fact, it has yet to been proven with dyno figures by any post I've read, that after market exhaust such as a Remus, or others will significantly improve power anywhere in the band.

 

ZTechnik makes the claim: Here

Albeit, small. The most improvement is around 4k rpm, for both hp and torque.

[donhallman]

I really love you guys. I look forward to checking in on this forum every day because of the intelligent posts and responses. Now on the question I posed about cutting into a stock RT exhaust. In contemplating this, I would not be seeking rolling thunder (Been there, done that), just wondered if the exhaust was made so that it could be cut down a few pounds without sacrificing the muffeling (sp?)and possibly improve performance. I believe I have been told no. To further this incitement I have also been wondering if the Cat was similar to those in cars. Years ago I knocked out the cat material from a car I had and did get better mileage. (not advocating this, just something I did as an experiment)I don't want to poison the air, just asking! It would seem that if there is a constriction to flow it would be in the cat. Instead of bypassing it with straight tubes, why no just clean it out?

[SAAB93driver]

Some people have drilled holes around the large exhaust hole in the plate where the exhausts exits out of the muffler (near the crease) in order to increase the sound level (no peformance increase). Start with three 3/8" holes in Y pattern. I don't have experience with it myself but several on the R RS board have (same engine/same exhaust as R RT)

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Don,

You can mess with the exhaust any way you want. None of them will improve performance over the stock system and a good number, such as drilling out the ends of the can or gutting the cat will probably hurt performance.

 

One of the best, and least offensive, ways of doing this is to use one of the cat eliminator pipes from either 2 Brothers or Rhemus and then combine with a stock can from one of the liter bikes. You can get a bit more grumble out the back and, if you shop carefully, you will be under 500 bucks.

 

Removal of the cat, of course, will increase the levels of pollution coming out the tail pipe. I don't really think they go up all that much so long as the bike is running well. Be sure to retain the O2 sensor.

 

As to the can, a caution there as well. The exhaust pulses of a big twin like the 11XX or 1200 series BMW are a lot different in per/pulse volume than a liter sized 4 cylinder. They need a lot of muffler volume to flow properly. Don't attempt to use the can from a 600 even though it makes more HP than your RT. You should only consider cans from a liter bike. The VFR 800 muffler is quite popular for this modification and doesn't seem to hurt things much.

[SDMike]

Don,

You can mess with the exhaust any way you want. None of them will improve performance over the stock system and a good number, such as drilling out the ends of the can or gutting the cat will probably hurt performance.

 

One of the best, and least offensive, ways of doing this is to use one of the cat eliminator pipes from either 2 Brothers or Rhemus and then combine with a stock can from one of the liter bikes. You can get a bit more grumble out the back and, if you shop carefully, you will be under 500 bucks.

 

Removal of the cat, of course, will increase the levels of pollution coming out the tail pipe. I don't really think they go up all that much so long as the bike is running well. Be sure to retain the O2 sensor.

 

As to the can, a caution there as well. The exhaust pulses of a big twin like the 11XX or 1200 series BMW are a lot different in per/pulse volume than a liter sized 4 cylinder. They need a lot of muffler volume to flow properly. Don't attempt to use the can from a 600 even though it makes more HP than your RT. You should only consider cans from a liter bike. The VFR 800 muffler is quite popular for this modification and doesn't seem to hurt things much.

I'm still looking for a can from a VFR to complete my budget exhaust system. I'll be into it for less than $250 after all's said and done.

 

I'll let y'all know how it goes.

 

Rode a buddy's 950Adventure the other day with FMFs on it. WAY louder than I would like, but it sure did have a pretty sound!

 

Optimally, I'd like to have the free-flowing exhaust without the free-flowing sound! Best of both worlds...

 

M

[TracyPrier]

Don,

You can mess with the exhaust any way you want. None of them will improve performance over the stock system and a good number, such as drilling out the ends of the can or gutting the cat will probably hurt performance.

 

One of the best, and least offensive, ways of doing this is to use one of the cat eliminator pipes from either 2 Brothers or Rhemus and then combine with a stock can from one of the liter bikes. You can get a bit more grumble out the back and, if you shop carefully, you will be under 500 bucks.

 

Removal of the cat, of course, will increase the levels of pollution coming out the tail pipe. I don't really think they go up all that much so long as the bike is running well. Be sure to retain the O2 sensor.

 

As to the can, a caution there as well. The exhaust pulses of a big twin like the 11XX or 1200 series BMW are a lot different in per/pulse volume than a liter sized 4 cylinder. They need a lot of muffler volume to flow properly. Don't attempt to use the can from a 600 even though it makes more HP than your RT. You should only consider cans from a liter bike. The VFR 800 muffler is quite popular for this modification and doesn't seem to hurt things much.

 

Sorry dude but I'm gonna have to disagree about the CAT removal not affecting performance.

 

I surgically removed the CAT element from my 1100RT and WOW! like a different bike.

 

Started easier, accelerated better, big gain in fuel economy AND it even shifts easier. I figure the last is because the engine is running freer now... like the difference between running a marathon with a rolled up sock in your mouth, and not

 

For anyone interested you can check out how I did it on my RT web site: www.myr1100rtp.netfirms.com

 

And while there is a slight increase in noise it is only slight and in no way offensive to anyone.

 

I do like the idea of the VFR muffler but that is in the future.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Optimally, I'd like to have the free-flowing exhaust without the free-flowing sound! Best of both worlds...

 

That's easy. Stay with the stocker. It's flow is more than adequate to the task for a stock motor and even a mildly (cams and compression) modified engine. Once you finally get your head around the fact that the engine is restricted by port shape much more than by intake or exhaust exterior fitment you will be well on your way to motorcycle tranquility.

 

You, after all, cannot spit shine a turd.

[Clive Liddell]

My stock (non-cat) muffler inner pipe started corroding? or just breaking up (vibration?) and I couldn't handle the squeaky hissing sound sooo, it was decision time.

 

OE replacement - mucho $$$$

 

Wanting to keep the appearance standard I went to Brett Clark in Durban who's company manufactures s/steel stuff for m/cycles including exhaust systems. It was agreed that they would "open" and gut my old muffler, replacing it with a mellow "straight through" type.

 

Brett emailed me a couple of pics of the cut open box and I could not believe just how complex the BMW design was. The exhaust gas first flows through a diffuser into the under g/box section (where y'all have the cat). The gas then flows via a pipe into the outer section of the rear silencer and then back into the under g/box collector and from there via another pipe out through the center of the muffler.

 

I got back a system of about 1/2 the weight but looking exactly like the old (hey, it was the old outer!) with a nice removable straight through baffle. I asked for the quietest they could do and so far (~20000km) it has been fine on this score!

 

Pro's:

<> Cost around 50% of new

<> Lighter weight reduces or changes vibration periods to be virtually eliminated.

<> Looks great.

<> Bike seems to rev more freely above 5000.

<> Gear changing seems easier - easier to equalise engine speed when you can hear it.

<> I am happy with the project.

 

Con's

<> I feel it's down on torque in the 3000 to 4500 range. Not flat spots, just smoothly down through the above range.

<> Fuel consumption around 5% - 7% worse on average.

<> A little noisier but BMW friends have said it sounds good, but then what are friends for.

 

In summary, I can confirm what many have said above - The BMW designed exhaust system, complex and heavy as it is, cannot be improved for efficiency and usable low down torque. (Not a valid comparison but I feel this every time I ride my R850R with it's original system intact).

[ElDuche211]

I know how most BMW riders feel about changing the exhaust, and I respect their opinion. Having said that, I have a different opinion. 7 months ago, I got my first BMW a 1999 R1100RT and coming from a racing crothrocket world my taste on bike sounds is a bit louder that normal to say the least, I ask for advice and/or opinions and 9 out of 10 were discouraging about replacing the exhaust for wherever reason (price VS benefits, sound, power, looks etc...) but guess what?? I changed it anyway with a Two Brothers racing exhaust and I couldn’t be happier. My BMW RT sounds like a Ducati twin. I have a comfortable bike with all the comfort that I can possibly wish for, and at the same time it sounds mildly aggressive. I respect everybody's opinion but I know that I will continue to change my exhaust in just about any bike that I get my hands on. (except a Goldwing I guess). I would not go back to stock, and remember the suspension in the RT is the weakest link, that is why I got me an OHLINS suspension setting first, then the exhaust.

[Ken H.]

know how most BMW riders feel about changing the exhaust, and I respect their opinion. Having said that, I have a different opinion.

Too bad you don't respect everyone else around you on your bike who is forced to involuntarily hear your noise.

 

All you are saying in your post is that you don’t give a _amn about other people. So typical of what’s wrong with our society today.

[PASSMORE]

know how most BMW riders feel about changing the exhaust, and I respect their opinion. Having said that, I have a different opinion.

Too bad you don't respect everyone else around you on your bike who is forced to involuntarily hear your noise.

 

All you are saying in your post is that you don’t give a _amn about other people. So typical of what’s wrong with our society today.

 

Fascinating that in turn you wish to impose your wishes onto him as well?

 

This argument also seems to be at the tip of the iceberg with smoking. I am not a smoker and do not enjoy smoke, however I have some issues with making smokers akin to lepers...

 

Can we all not have a tad bit of tolerance for one another's little joys and in turn be considerate of what annoys others as well?

 

Full disclosure... I am about to put the Two Brothers pipe on my RT as well because I thoroughly enjoy the sound of motors...

[russell_bynum]

I am about to put the Two Brothers pipe on my RT as well because I thoroughly enjoy the sound of motors...

 

Yeah...but...it's an oilhead. Put a pipe on it and it'll just sound like LOUD baby farts instead of quiet baby farts.

[PASSMORE]

I am about to put the Two Brothers pipe on my RT as well because I thoroughly enjoy the sound of motors...

 

Yeah...but...it's an oilhead. Put a pipe on it and it'll just sound like LOUD baby farts instead of quiet baby farts.

 

Didn't say I wanted it to sound like a big v-twin... I have no illusion and I happen to like the sound the boxer emits.

 

In fact, no matter the engine, I like to hear them. I like engines.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Can we all not have a tad bit of tolerance for one another's little joys and in turn be considerate of what annoys others as well?

 

Full disclosure... I am about to put the Two Brothers pipe on my RT as well because I thoroughly enjoy the sound of motors...

 

Which is it going to be. Considerate or loud pipe. The two are mutually exclusive.

[Vincent]

I did this and am still happy, great for just over $150!

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/182843/page/0/fpart/all/vc/1

[Ken H.]

Fascinating that in turn you wish to impose your wishes onto him as well?

It's not (just) my wishes. It's the wishes of a society that has constructed itself (through laws) to say that certain things (e.g. - loud noise) are unacceptable.

 

It’s the wishes of a society where in exchange for enjoying the benefits of the society, we agree to abide by the rules that have been determined by it.

 

The wishes of the majority have greater value that the wishes of the one who chooses to violate them. Without that basic principle (regardless of subject) and (primarily) voluntary adherence to it, the society fails. And ultimately the one who chooses to violate them fails too.

[Matts_12GS]

<Yawn>

Where are the statues about these things? If the bike is legal from a noise and emissions perspective, who are we to say what someone should or shouldn't do?

 

Dang, every time I read this kind of dialog it reminds me of the busy bodies who seem to populate homeowner's associations! Everyone, relax! Run whatever damn exhaust you want to on your bike if it makes you happy and try to be a good neighbor with it!

[eakins]

here's mike f. bike with a 2 bros mid-pipe and a gsxr 1000 can. i bought a brand new titanium 03 gsxr 1000 can off ebay for $15. gsxr guys constantly yank the stock muffler & dump em. look on ebay or post wtb on gsxr forums. this winter i'm gonna fabricate a mount (out of aluminum) and buy a mid-pipe. i like the look and angle the best. mike said he started with the vfr 800 can then moved over to this setup, which he likes better! mid-pipe is around $130.

 

wait does the 1150rt use a removable mid-pipe (where the cat is). on the 1150r & 1100s (first to use this design) & 1150gs (i think) the left header pipe goes left around the engine (instead of to the right on 1100) and comes back together at the cat then out to the muffler (hence a Y pipe). i know the 1150r does and alot of guy get a sebring or 2 bros mid-pipe (Y pipe) without the cat, but keep the stock muffler and have great feedback.

[eakins]

here's detail of the can. upper area is a bracket he fabbed out of aluminum bar. left area is the suzuki mid-pipe he painted silver (not an issue on the rt as it's covered anyway). can't remember all the deatils of how he matted the 2 bros mid-pipe to the suzuki mid-pipe. maybe he'll chime in. if you buy a gsxr 1000 can make sure to get a mid-pipe (about 6" long and it's black).

 

[PASSMORE]

Can we all not have a tad bit of tolerance for one another's little joys and in turn be considerate of what annoys others as well?

 

Full disclosure... I am about to put the Two Brothers pipe on my RT as well because I thoroughly enjoy the sound of motors...

 

Which is it going to be. Considerate or loud pipe. The two are mutually exclusive.

 

How are these two things mutually exclusive?

 

A loud pipe could not possibly be inherently inconsiderate.

 

Perhaps to you, but not to everyone, nor exclusively.

[PASSMORE]

<Yawn>

Where are the statues about these things? If the bike is legal from a noise and emissions perspective, who are we to say what someone should or shouldn't do?

 

Dang, every time I read this kind of dialog it reminds me of the busy bodies who seem to populate homeowner's associations! Everyone, relax! Run whatever damn exhaust you want to on your bike if it makes you happy and try to be a good neighbor with it!

 

I agree with your perspective whole heartedly. It seems that both sides of the issue would do well to give a little and just generally be "good neighbors".

 

I am living in a private community now where a group of residents often makes leaps in logic with their assumptions.

[PASSMORE]

Fascinating that in turn you wish to impose your wishes onto him as well?

It's not (just) my wishes. It's the wishes of a society that has constructed itself (through laws) to say that certain things (e.g. - loud noise) are unacceptable.

 

It’s the wishes of a society where in exchange for enjoying the benefits of the society, we agree to abide by the rules that have been determined by it.

 

The wishes of the majority have greater value that the wishes of the one who chooses to violate them. Without that basic principle (regardless of subject) and (primarily) voluntary adherence to it, the society fails. And ultimately the one who chooses to violate them fails too.

 

I can be a tad slow at times, help me out here...

 

Are you inferring that people who choose to run aftermarket pipes will not only "fail" personally, but also be responsible for their society's failure?

 

Surely you jest sir...

 

I can only hope that my Two Brothers pipe installation will not result in life failure for me...

[SDMike]

Fascinating that in turn you wish to impose your wishes onto him as well?

It's not (just) my wishes. It's the wishes of a society that has constructed itself (through laws) to say that certain things (e.g. - loud noise) are unacceptable.

 

It’s the wishes of a society where in exchange for enjoying the benefits of the society, we agree to abide by the rules that have been determined by it.

 

The wishes of the majority have greater value that the wishes of the one who chooses to violate them. Without that basic principle (regardless of subject) and (primarily) voluntary adherence to it, the society fails. And ultimately the one who chooses to violate them fails too.

 

I can be a tad slow at times, help me out here...

 

Are you inferring that people who choose to run aftermarket pipes will not only "fail" personally, but also be responsible for their society's failure?

 

Surely you jest sir...

 

I can only hope that my Two Brothers pipe installation will not result in life failure for me...

Hey Passy! I see yer makin waves here...

 

This IS NOT JM!

 

M

[SDMike]

wait does the 1150rt use a removable mid-pipe (where the cat is).

No, you have to remove the entire exhaust from the headers back on the RT.

 

IIRC 2-Bros sells theirs separately.

 

M

[ElDuche211]

know how most BMW riders feel about changing the exhaust, and I respect their opinion. Having said that, I have a different opinion.

Too bad you don't respect everyone else around you on your bike who is forced to involuntarily hear your noise.

 

All you are saying in your post is that you don’t give a _amn about other people. So typical of what’s wrong with our society today.

 

And too bad you don’t respect OTHER people opinions...but I am sure you are a fine member of society Sir...

Just try to conceptualize reasonable noise by a “reasonable person”, The next step logically, is to visualize this reasonable person. Did I mention Visualize...I guess this is as far as you going to get....

[Ken H.]

Are you inferring that people who choose to run aftermarket pipes will not only "fail" personally, but also be responsible for their society's failure?

Singularly, on this single subject, of course not. But what I AM saying, is that the increasing prevalent attitude in general on many issues of, 'I can do what ever I want, regardless of the effect on others,' which loud pipes are a perfect example of, is a major element in the decline of all societies. It's actually the root cause of all crime, a callus disregard for society's rules.

 

People violating noise regulations, removing emission systems, or littering, or shoplifting, or any other infraction you might care to list all say basically the same thing, 'My little-bitty digression, is not going to make that big of a difference in the direction of society.' But it does, because - a) everything is the sum of it's parts, and b) because people are sheeple and the infraction of one person encourages another to do the same, which causes a bigger group to conclude it's all right and that's what they want to do to, and so on and so on, and so it snowballs.

 

Personal responsibility, conformance with society's majority wishes, and thus it's continuing progress starts and continues one person (one motorcycle exhaust system) at a time.

[Ken H.]

Just try to conceptualize reasonable noise by a “reasonable person”, The next step logically, is to visualize this reasonable person.

I don't have to, the various governing body's of our society have already defined what "reasonable" is on this subject by the creation of noise laws, ordinances, emission regulations, etc. Laws defined by the trickle up of the overall wishes of the members of that society on the subject at hand. Whatever the subject may be. It's how a functioning democratic society works. This concept is the very core definition of what a "reasonable person" is.

 

Rather, people (possibly such as yourself) attempt to justify their personal actions by alleging that the collective society of other people is 'unreasonable.' Strictly on the grounds that it happens to disagree with their (your) personal position.

 

If we viewing the option of the collective masses as a whole on any particular subject, it is then obvious that the violator is the person not "visualizing a reasonable person", as society has defined what one is on this subject. It is a person who finds noisy motorcyles objectionable and unacceptable.

 

A person who agrees with the wishes of the masses (such as myself on this particular subject), but disagrees with the person who chooses to violate those wishes, is not the person who cannot "visualize a reasonable person." What a "reasonable person" is has already be defined by the society that person belongs to.

[SAAB93driver]

I think you generalize too much. Some laws/rules, even if supposdly willed by the people are morally wrong - slavery and the 3/5th rule for instance.

 

Other laws appear to have little to do with the wishes of the masses. Speed limits, another law implemented is ignored by most drives on the interstate. Tax law has little to do with the wishes of the masses. Given the chance everybody would pay none or less (until they realized there are no serives)

 

Point being just because a government says it is so, does not make it right.

 

A valid argument can be made for opposition to loud motorcycles - I hate loud motorcycles almost as much as I hate fart cans on Honda civics but standing behind laws in general like it is a black and white issue is somewhat naive. If the founding members of this country thought like that we'd still be British colonies.

[PASSMORE]

Are you inferring that people who choose to run aftermarket pipes will not only "fail" personally, but also be responsible for their society's failure?

Singularly, on this single subject, of course not. But what I AM saying, is that the increasing prevalent attitude in general on many issues of, 'I can do what ever I want, regardless of the effect on others,' which loud pipes are a perfect example of, is a major element in the decline of all societies. It's actually the root cause of all crime, a callus disregard for society's rules.

 

People violating noise regulations, removing emission systems, or littering, or shoplifting, or any other infraction you might care to list all say basically the same thing, 'My little-bitty digression, is not going to make that big of a difference in the direction of society.' But it does, because - a) everything is the sum of it's parts, and b) because people are sheeple and the infraction of one person encourages another to do the same, which causes a bigger group to conclude it's all right and that's what they want to do to, and so on and so on, and so it snowballs.

 

Personal responsibility, conformance with society's majority wishes, and thus it's continuing progress starts and continues one person (one motorcycle exhaust system) at a time.

 

So to summarize, you were applying a very broad based argument on societal issues and ills to an issue of exhaust where it has not even cleary been defined if the aftermarket exhaust's dB's fall outside of the law.

 

Hold on a second, let me find my sledgehammer... I have a few finishing nails to drive...

[PASSMORE]

Passy! I see yer makin waves here...

 

This IS NOT JM!

 

M

 

Hiya Mike!

 

How's trix? Didya hear I picked up an RT? I LOVE IT!

 

No waves here my friend, just swimming with the folks in the deep end...

 

You know me, I am a good boy

 

See ya 'round!

 

Michael

[Berts]

Man! Who says these pipes are loud? I LOVE my Ztechnik. It give my RT a nice low tone or growl -- certainly not a bark! If I'm riding with my wife or in a group, I slip in the "decible killer" and the bike goes into stealth mode. This is accomplished in less that 1 minute -- do it all the time. You CAN have it both ways

[Ken H.]

I LOVE my Ztechnik.

But what you "LOVE" doesn't count. It's what others around you think that matters to the future of our sport.

 

Sigh...... But some riders will never grasp that oh-so-simple concept. Sigh.....

[baggerchris]

Has this gone on long enuf? I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

[PASSMORE]

It's what others around you think that matters to the future of our sport.

 

Now I am REALLY confused...

 

Are we talking about loud exhaust in motorcycle "sports" now or on our road going motorcycles?

 

BTW, will you define your criteria for loud? Is it based on your perception of annoyance or law (dB) based?

[russell_bynum]

Ken, I understand what you're saying, but your logic as I understand it (any aftermarket exhaust = too loud) is flawed.

 

Lisa's R1100RS with Remus exhaust is far quieter than my stock Dodge/Cummins pickup. And I'm not positive, but I'm pretty sure that it's quieter (or at least on par with) Lisa's V8 Mustang with stock exhaust.

 

I don't think any reasonable person is going to get worked up over a mild aftermarket pipe. I say "reasonable" because our former neighbors used to yell at me for making too much noise on the RT with stock exhaust when I would start it and immediately ride off using as low RPM as possible. Some people are not reasonable...we'll never be able to please them. We can only jusy hope that they do not become the majority.

 

A straight-piped cruiser or my CBR with Arata pipe (track-only) is a different story because they're FAR louder than any legal vehicle on the road. But there must be some middle ground between open pipes and the very quiet exhaust from the RT and other similar bikes.