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t_bills

By t_bills
in Motorcycle Talk

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dhanson

dhanson

Posted
Posted

So, are you a BMW salesman, just to enlighten any others that might not know?

 

I am a mechanical engineer type, never been a salesman unless you count ebay.

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SuperG

SuperG

Posted
Posted

I would like to chime in, even tho I am an outsider now- no longer own a BMW. Based on just over year-and-half ownership I have mixed feelings. Here is my honest point of view on topic at hand.

First, I love the forum and people here, one of the best.

Second, BMW motorcycle (I can only speak for my 2005 RT) unique and great technology and engineering not found elsewhere combined in one package.

Lightweight, electric windshield, self-cancel turnsignals, paralever, cruise control, heated seat grips, bike computer on dash. good ABS,I even loved the servo brakes. With technology comes mechanical liability. The problem is it is not the high tech stuff that breaks.It is the simple stuff like mentioned in this tread like the combo handlebar switch, outdrives and fuel metering.

During my ownership I only had to replace the fuel pump controller at the tune of $150- not bad.

 

With a new bike and piece of mind of having warranty, those things can be somewhat overlook (must have thick skin).

If money is not an issue (when warranty expires) other thing can be fixed.

 

The turn off! (for me)

1)For such an expensive motorcycle, manufacturer should be listening and repair/improve things that are notoriously fail and not resist or deny the issue.

2)When failure occurs repair cost can be too expensive compared to other brands.

 

To me it seems there are only 3 option:

1) lucky- never have problems 2) some problem, have tick skin, deal with it. 3) got burnt, move on.

 

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Paul Mihalka

Paul Mihalka

Posted
Posted

Let me chip in a little. My real profession was data processing systems design for IBM mainframes. My lifelong passion was/is motorcycles. At the advanced age of 50+ I decided I had enough of it. So I merged passion with work and for 20+ years I was getting my paycheck at BMW motorcycle dealers, over time doing most any job you can find at a dealer, including selling bikes.

AFAIK Tim's (tallman) main profession is teaching kids in schools. Out of his motorcycle passion he got a part time job at a BMW shop, where I think he does a lot of things besides selling bikes. We are enthusiasts who also sell bikes. We are not poisoned by the Cool Aid - but we base our opinions on more tha one or two bikes or one or two dealers.

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dhanson

dhanson

Posted
Posted

Fair enough. Just my feeling, but when people defend something regardless of the facts, there is usually some income involved.

 

P.S. This general attitude is what turns me off with BMW also. My experience with only one bike does not really matter! It might not to you, but it made a HUGE impression on me.

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Skywagon

Skywagon

Posted
Posted

Ahh crap, my 2005 1150 hasn't had anything go wrong...so I will just say

 

 

Happy Thanksgiving

 

May your team win today so long as it is UT and Dallas!

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tallman

tallman

Posted
Posted

Thanks Paul.

My vocation has been in the education arena for nearly 40 years.

Administration, instruction, coaching, ownership, personnel, curriculum, budgets, infrastructure development, policy development, and a host of others.

My avocations include motorcycle riding.

I first rode a BMW in the '60's.

First BMW a 1968 R50, after owning Honda, Yamaha, HD.

Not high mileage like Paul, only a few hundred thousand miles but never stranded becasue of the bike.

Minimal repairs, general maintenance.

I started working part time (afternoons/Saturday/school holiday)doing sales/servie writing/demo rides/some parts.

 

My opinions are based on being on both sides of the counter, both sides of a sale, both sides of dealing with many dealerships, and both sides of dealing with BMW.

I've seen the good and ugly, on both sides of the counter.

 

This is a BMW forum.

I've met hundreds of people through it in many parts of the country.

My wife and I have ridden tens of thousands of miles to participate in events.

We've had the pleasure of hosting dozens on members over the years and made many friends.

Right now I rarely work at the local mc shop.

I hope to expand that again down the road as health allows.

 

I recognize, and have posted frequently about issues w/BMW, bikes, parts, dealer issues, etc.

However, when it comes down to it, my personal experience has been extremely positive wrt BMW motorcycles and this board.

I think it would be extreme if I posted every time I rode and started one of those "I didn't have any problems, just a great ride" threads.

I also think it is extreme, on a BMW board, to post the same negatives every time a thread about any problem is posted.

More than once many have pointed out that riders of all brands are welcome.

Being welcome, IMO, means showing some consideration for the host.

Our host, is supporting a BMW board.

At some point saying negative things, and the same things again and again, raises questions about motivation, IMO.

It is one thing to relate a personal (I had to replace switch 4x on my 2009 X) experience. It is something else to trun those into a harangue about every area of the BMW experience.

Enjoy your Yamaha.

Hope it works long term with no issues.

It isn't the bike for me.

I don't care for the ordering policy and our local dealership is, well, I won't go there.

But why would I post that info on your Taynayray thread?

To try and keep people from experiencing the negative issues countless riders around here have had with that brand?

I could have, but it would not add anything.

Easy enough to find all the negative Yamaha experiences on various boards.

Also easy enough to find positives.

Perhaps finding postivies relating to the board where one is posting would be a good principle to espouse.

Best wishes.

 

PS

just saw your post about people defending something because there was income involved.

I wish.

I did it becasue I wanted to and any money I might have made on a sale was passed directly on to

the customer.

Sometimes there aren't ulterior motives.

 

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dhanson

dhanson

Posted
Posted

I guess the difference is you defend BMW, I defend motorcycles. You don't like your Yamaha dealer, I don't like my BMW dealer, but really really like the BMW rep.

 

Like mentioned earlier in this thread, I joined this forum after deciding to purchase a BMW and change my riding from the HD crowd to a more touring oriented bunch. I have come to like the people I have met during the BMW rides/meetings. I'm really a rider/golfer/hunter, not a brand specific anything. I made my own hunting bows. I built a custom Buell.

 

In the Army I was told what you say in the bar doesn't matter, and I sorta view forums/facebook the same. Just a bunch of talk, other than the help on fixing a bike, I don't give it much thought. Pretty hard to convey feelings on the internet, but I do like to ride from time to time.

 

The Yamaha is my current ride, but I am not married to this brand, however I do appreciate that they wish for it to work and not bother me with mechanical problems. I am impressed with the systems on this bike, but expect other brands to catch up, so no biggie.

 

This thread is about a person that has been hurt both emotionally and financially by BMW, he intends to leave. I hope that when he calms down and recovers from the ordeal, that he will return. I expect most would hope we would just go away and not be heard of again. Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

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Selden

Selden

Posted
Posted

I finally got round to reading this thread from start to finish. Interesting stuff.

 

Granted, motorcycles have become increasingly complex, but also (in general) more reliable. That said, I've been on this forum long enough to have formed an opinion that BMW quality control is not as good as it should be, and that BMWNA does not seem to be as responsive to warranty problems as one would hope.

 

Knowing these two things (perhaps the OP did not), if I were to buy a new BMW (highly unlikely), I would want to maintain as good a relationship as possible with my dealer, at least while it was in warranty. Perhaps I am being naive, but it seems to me that the dealer is a customer's primary liaison with BMWNA, and should have more influence with them than a customer. I have had my righteous run-ins with companies in the past, and I have learned that it's an approach that is rarely productive. I would rather solve the problem, and that usually requires a collaborative, rather than an adversarial relationship. There is something to the old saw, "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."

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SteveHebert

SteveHebert

Posted
Posted

This is a BMW board, BMW Sport Touring, BMWRT, what in those names means anything else? Sorry but I cannot stand to hear all the crap about, or towards BMW motorcycles and dealers in a way that makes the poor rider the victim-always!

 

I too have had a rash of issues with BMW motorcycles but I keep coming back because I love the brand and the people.

 

Two of them were total transmission failures but those bikes were a 1976 R75/6 and a 1981 R100RS. Both bikes had close to 100K miles. Who cares, fix it and move on. My other problem child was a 2002 R1150RT. Major issues with the input shaft slpines and finally the transmission.

 

BMW paid 50% of the first repair on the 2002 RT (out of warranty) and 100% replacement of the entire transmisison, etc. the second time. I was no longer smitten with that machine so I advertised it here on this board back in 05 and sold it to a gentleman who had no issues with it for many years thereafter.

 

I just purchased another R1150RT the other day.

 

Now back to the attitude of the OP and Pandora Motorsports, Selden's last quote is absolute. T-bills destroyed his ability to be dealt with by being a PITA. Justin Prann did not.

 

I too enjoy other brands of motorcycles and enjoy the friends that I have made on this board, but I would not stay and continue to bash BMW if I did not own one.

 

If you want to stir the crap, go to ADVRider and use the Joe Mama forum. That is what it is for. We do not have that here for many good reasons.

 

Just my $1.50 worth.........

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ka5ysy

ka5ysy

Posted
Posted
When we had the construction side of our business, we had the "Eff clause"

 

I have a "PITA fee" that is added occasionally for a select few customers... :thumbsup:

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BFish

BFish

Posted
Posted

Steve i couldn't agree more. certain ex-bmw owners never let up. i feel for the issues and hassle of dealing with the problem, but to continuing to bash, ridicule, and rehash redundantly is getting so old and tiresome.

 

we heard the story, sorry for the major headache, but once is enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Guest Kakugo

Guest Kakugo

Posted
Posted

I agree on the fact dealers and importers play a huge part in the ownership experience.

The reason BMW is so successful here in Europe is because they pamper customers.

My brother had his GS battery fail a few months outside of warranty... no issue! Dealer recovered the bike and fit a new battery. All free of charge.

I had a service remainder coming up after fitting the fused battery tender lead... no issue. Just rode in, it was fixed in five minutes and they even apologized because it came out at all.

Each time I go to have the RT serviced I have a courtesy bike waiting for me: they even know I prefer one with a top box... I have owned Aprilia, Triumph, Suzuki, Honda etc and never, ever was I offered a courtesy bike or even a bus ticket to get home.

 

From reading this forum I understand BMW NA seems interested in just selling bikes without too much thought about customer satisfaction and that's a pity because if it can be done around here, where the customer is always wrong, it can be done (easily) in the US.

 

Listening to owner's feedback is important to improve the product. Just as my warranty was expiring I received a questionnaire in the mail about my "ownership experience". I stressed the points that need addressing in my opinion (brake fade above all) but also let them know I was fully satisfied with my dealer and I really loved the bike.

 

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JamesW

JamesW

Posted
Posted

Hi Steve,

I think, IMhumbleO, what we see here is the result of mind sets that have become prevalent in this country. We have the "me" generation and their mind set becoming the dominant way to do business in the America of 2011. It is all about me, me, me. If you are in front of me on the freeway that is just a challenge and I will by god get in front of you no matter what, that kind of thing.

 

I have come to believe not 50% of what I read on the internet and that includes this forum. The thread responders and originators often times word their posts in ways that support their own personal agendas at the expense of others in this case a motorcycle dealer. I find reading threads like this to be very telling about our society today.

 

I

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Paul Mihalka

Paul Mihalka

Posted
Posted

I don't know how much it is telling about our society. The postings sure are telling a lot about the persons who are posting. Both positive and negative.

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Whip

Whip

Posted
Posted

I think we should have a permanent section for x owners that have had problems and will never own another BMW motorcycle. Or maybe a place on the board where owners can complain about BMW corp in general. From prices of the bikes to servos and FDs I think it would a good thing for some of our members to air out their feelings. Maybe we could have PhillyFlash come out of retirement to moderate the "I am mad at BMW and I ain't gonna take it anymore"..... we could call it "The Couch". I say this as a recovering hater. Paul helped me recover by selling me a trouble free great bike and supplying excellent service.

 

I am all about solutions.

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tallman

tallman

Posted
Posted

Great idea.

Why didn't I post that?

Oh, I did.

:grin:

:wave:

 

I'm all about the riding and tales, get togethers, helping fellow riders, pics.

I should listen to Marty more I guess.

:dopeslap:

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Jake

Jake

Posted
Posted

I kindly enjoy these constructive posts actually. I don't often get a chance to meet enough fellow members, and I'm looking forward to the opportunity to share ideas in the future.

 

peopletokill.jpg

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tallman

tallman

Posted
Posted

Me either.

Never woulda thought of it w/out all the input from esteemed

board members.

:wave:

 

Jake,

We moved most of the guns since you were here last time.

:P

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JamesW

JamesW

Posted
Posted

:rofl: Now there is one great suggestion, a decent screwdriver handle.

 

more :rofl:

 

And the sad thing is there are probably some people out there that would look at the tool kit screwdriver and think what a piece of crap this motorcycle must be. Maybe that's why BMW stopped including tool kits. :rofl:

 

Pathetic, just pathetic.

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eddd

eddd

Posted
Posted
Fixed it for ya...

 

AAA-L.jpg

 

If anyone thinks I'm available for 5 cents, you be dreaming.

 

We know you're not available for 5 cents. That's just what we think your advice is worth.

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norah

norah

Posted
Posted
Fixed it for ya...

 

AAA-L.jpg

 

If anyone thinks I'm available for 5 cents, you be dreaming.

 

 

Howard, I thought everything was negotiable.......... :grin:

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Paul In Australia

Paul In Australia

Posted
Posted

I think the important thing to remember is that " this Forum" is for people who are BMW enthusiasts, new owners etc. I read here to learn a bit, enjoy the stories and get me more excited about riding my bike. People ask questions, get answers and make their own decisions. Long term members ( of which I am not) have helped countless owners and riders. I have had 2 BMW's which have been perfect. Lucky me. AND LUCKY A GREAT DEAL OF OTHER PEOPLE. The vast majority ( well over 90% ) love their BMW bikes. To cast doubts in regard to personal gain for being a long term supporter like Paul and Tallman , is just very poor form. Without these sort of guys , the help we have all received would not be available.

I agree we should hear about issues, but give us a break from the on going onslaught of BMW bashing. This forum doesn't want to hear it mate.

 

Have a great day and for everyones sake go out and have a ride.

best regards

Paul

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azkaisr

azkaisr

Posted
Posted
Fixed it for ya...

 

AAA-L.jpg

 

If anyone thinks I'm available for 5 cents, you be dreaming.

 

 

Howard, I thought everything was negotiable.......... :grin:

 

Only if it is on the menu :wave:

 

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ka5ysy

ka5ysy

Posted
Posted

I must be a statistical flyer. My R1200R (2007) gets great mileage, does not use oil, leak, run rough, eat final drives or, explode! I even tested the fates and used full synthetic engine and gear oil after the first oil change and the planet still rotated properly.

 

We, however, will not talk about the Exide battery (not BMW). It sucked. Twice. Odyssey solved that !

 

Only real complaint is that it seems to take four or five times longer to go from point A to point B. Have not figured that out quite yet, but I continue to research the problem after 26000 miles.

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Sweendog

Sweendog

Posted
Posted

The thread is approaching epic length!

 

The only BMW dealership interactions I've had have been good. Montgomeryville Cycle Center, and the now defunct Desimone BMW. The Montgomeryville shop was kind enough to give me a test ride on a new '10 RT, which was amazing, though in the end I couldn't justify the cost. At Desimone I looked at bikes and got answers a few times, and ended up buying some riding gear there from their friendly staff. They were one of the only cycle dealers in the area where the staff actually acknowledge customers when they walk in. (Seriously, what is the deal with sales staff ignoring customers?)

 

Any way, I bought an used '99 RT and have loved every minute on it so far. I figure the rear end could blow up at any moment, so I ride it like I stole it, and keep up on the scheduled maintenance.

 

Sorry to hear the OP had such a rough go of it with his new bike.

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doc47

doc47

Posted
Posted
You are just a Sado-Masochist Ken LOL!

 

"Stop it, I like it" :rofl:

 

Reminds me of the sadist that married the masochist.

The masochist said, "Beat me."

The sadist said, "No."

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Rafigso

Rafigso

Posted
Posted

I'm a fairly new BMW owner, purchased my "new to me" from Carolina Euro in Greensboro, NC about 2 months ago. Experience was a good one.

 

Sales folks were nice and very knowledgeable.

Service folks were nice.

Process was smooth and fair.

 

I've dealt with quite a few dealers in the past an they rate high on the list.

 

It's been my experience that situations like these are avoidable, it is obvious that there is/was a communication failure here. When your reaction is as harsh as saying I'll never own a BMW again and then publicly bashing the dealer and brand, you appear to be the problem.

 

AND, if you didn't know, Perception is reality

 

I hope you enjoy whichever brand you migrate to, but I for one love my new bike and its personality.

 

 

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KDeline

KDeline

Posted
Posted
You are just a Sado-Masochist Ken LOL!

 

"Stop it, I like it" :rofl:

 

Reminds me of the sadist that married the masochist.

The masochist said, "Beat me."

The sadist said, "No."

 

 

 

 

I just tell it like it is, good or bad. Problem is, the bikes I had over the course of the 1st 23 years were fantastic. Now the last 5 years, not so much. TBS I have not had a major breakdown in 7 months....YAY!

 

 

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