Signing out

[dhanson]

Most new BMW owners don't come here first, they fall for the high price must mean best bike.

[Whip]

Most new BMW owners don't come here first, they fall for the high price must mean best bike.

 

 

Let's not get too personal now.

 

[Roadwolf]

DDL and Scott,

 

Most, if not close to 100%, love their BMWs and wouldn't have anything else, and don't have the problems of a vocal few. It is the central tenant of the internet that one must remember... those who complain draw the most attention, those that are satisfied rarely make a point to say they have no problems or few issues worth mentioning. Same here. You have a few who got burned and love to churn it up... When my ST1300 gave me fits, I vented at my old stomping grounds a bit, felt good, but before long... I was just pissing in the wind and posting to get a rise out of those good guys over at ST-Owners.com. One wonders why they hang around here to bash the main reason this forum exists... to learn and understand all things from BMW Motorrad.

 

And as an aside, I have had four BMWs in the past ten years and not one has ever left me stranded nor given me reason to question their reliability. But if I ever had an issue, guess what, I'd deal with it and move on.

[markgoodrich]

I might as well join in, everyone else has. When I had a Goldwing, the GW forums were full of screeds excoriating the swinebutts at Honda...why, Honda had to be SUED to fix cracking frames!! and uh, some other thing I've forgotten. The same sorts of "I'll never own another..." comments were standard on that forum. I also had an FJR for awhile, and mein gott!!! Some of them TICKED!!! "I'll never own another..." comments were, no surprise, standard. Even the forums dedicated to the sainted Honda VFR Interceptor were full of "Them stinking sonsa..., my rectumfire went out on me...."...and cue the "I'll never own another..."

 

I'm not disparaging our friends here who have had serious and repeated problems with their bikes. I am commenting, however, that their singular experiences do not mean the entire marque's line of motorcycles is inherently (insert your favorite pejorative word here). Nor am I defending BMW...or Honda...or Yamaha: machines are designed by humans. Humans are fallible. Machines, even properly designed, wear, break, crack, stop on the side of the road.

 

It's sensible for the disenchanted (and enchanted) to offer their opinions in a thread like this, but I respectfully disagree with the tendency to post repeatedly about the horrors of BMW design and manufacture. Make the point, move on, seems reasonable to me.

[Paul Mihalka]

If I had spent time on this board before buying my RT (about this time last year) it would have put me off bmw and I'd be riding an FJR now. Even now some of these posts make me want to run out to the garage to make sure it hasn't spontaneously combusted..

 

fwiw, about 9k miles this year with no problems and I enjoyed the heck out of it. I've done two services and it's so far been a good experience. Have yet to see inside of a beemer dealership, from what I read hope I never do.

 

Just as there are just a few bikes out of many that have real problems but get all the press, there are just a few dealers out of many that should improve, but you only read about them. If you are in Central VA, there are dealers around you that you would be impressed if you visited them. I am not talking about impressive decoration, but about the quality of people you would meet.

[ddlewis]

...But if I ever had an issue, guess what, I'd deal with it and move on.

 

same here.. and if failures got common/annoying enough I'd move on to another bike - as opposed to hanging around waiting for opportunities to bitch.

 

Never seen a brand-specific site with so many vocal detractors. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I actually like my bmw motorcycle on bmwst. It's probably just noobie foolishness, surely I'll become bitter soon enough.

[Missouri Bob]

It seems that a large part of the "ownership experience" results from the dealer(s) with whom one does business. Some shops seem to have a better grasp of the situation than others.

 

Although I have posted this before, BMW of Denver has always treated me fairly. Yes, my R1200ST had a u-joint failure that could have been catastrophic, but the dealer and BMWNA covered most of it even though the bike was out of warranty. Consequently, they can reasonably expect more of my business.

 

The local Audi dealer (Stammler) has also been exemplary. Although other cars have their strong points, I will probably continue to buy Audis from Stammler.

 

If you don't enjoy something you bought, get rid of it and move on.

 

Bob

[ddlewis]

...If you are in Central VA, there are dealers around you that you would be impressed if you visited them. I am not talking about impressive decoration, but about the quality of people you would meet.

 

Glad to hear that. I know there's one in Fredericksburg about an hour and a half to north of here and one in Chesapeake about 2 hours to the east.. If I ever find myself near one during business hours I'll stop in.

[Mike]

I might as well join in, everyone else has. When I had a Goldwing, the GW forums were full of screeds excoriating the swinebutts at Honda...why, Honda had to be SUED to fix cracking frames!! and uh, some other thing I've forgotten. The same sorts of "I'll never own another..." comments were standard on that forum. I also had an FJR for awhile, and mein gott!!! Some of them TICKED!!! "I'll never own another..." comments were, no surprise, standard. Even the forums dedicated to the sainted Honda VFR Interceptor were full of "Them stinking sonsa..., my rectumfire went out on me...."...and cue the "I'll never own another..."

 

I'm not disparaging our friends here who have had serious and repeated problems with their bikes. I am commenting, however, that their singular experiences do not mean the entire marque's line of motorcycles is inherently (insert your favorite pejorative word here). Nor am I defending BMW...or Honda...or Yamaha: machines are designed by humans. Humans are fallible. Machines, even properly designed, wear, break, crack, stop on the side of the road.

 

It's sensible for the disenchanted (and enchanted) to offer their opinions in a thread like this, but I respectfully disagree with the tendency to post repeatedly about the horrors of BMW design and manufacture. Make the point, move on, seems reasonable to me.

 

I pretty much agree, but it's the same on every motorcycle or car discussion board I've ever visited. Some people seem to be able to view a mechanical failure as a mechanical failure. Others view it as an affront to their honor. Of course, when a dealer handles things poorly or has a pissy attitude, it can't help the aggrieved party's already frazzled state of mind.

 

The truth is that BMW's, like most modern conveyances are, on the whole, very reliable and perform at a remarkable level. While you can't--and probably shouldn't--dismiss the objective reports of issues, it's probably best to ignore those who take on the persona of brand jihadist.

[Matts_12GS]

...But if I ever had an issue, guess what, I'd deal with it and move on.

 

same here.. and if failures got common/annoying enough I'd move on to another bike - as opposed to hanging around waiting for opportunities to bitch.

 

Never seen a brand-specific site with so many vocal detractors. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I actually like my bmw motorcycle on bmwst. It's probably just noobie foolishness, surely I'll become bitter soon enough.

 

Danny boy, I think I'm finally getting to you!

[ddlewis]

 

Danny boy, I think I'm finally getting to you!

 

yep I'm on board and that bavarian kool aid sure is tasty!

[MT Wallet]

Firefight911, How does one conspire with one's self?

[john meyer]

Wow, quite the thread guys. Quite polarizing for some.

 

And now a word from probably the worlds biggest beta tester... Me.

 

Bought new 07 K1200GT Rode 0 to 20K - Problems: Fuel Mapping, Airbox, EWS ring, and handlebar Switches

 

Bought new 09 K1300GT Rode to 0 to 16Kmi- Problems: Fuel Mapping, Kick stand switch, and handlebar Switiches.

 

Bought new 10 G450X Rode 0 to 2K - Problems: Fork seals blew out, Clutch wore out, and wiring shorted to Fuel injector.

 

Bought new 12 K1600GT (still have)- Now has 8K - Problems: Zip

 

Bought new 12 F800GS - (still have) Now has 2K - Problems Zip

 

My eternal search for the unattainable "perfect motorcycle" has led me to many different rides including many non BMW brands too many to list. Call me a glutton for punishment but my point is I come back to my main reason I ride. When I like a particular way a bike allows me to get in my "Zone" I will put up with a lot of things. This includes BS from Dealerships, Corporate America, or "The man".

 

Everybody has a bike that fits their soul.

 

Whether it's a Beemer or not who gives a sh$t.

 

Respectfully Submitted

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Slyder_Steve]

umm, Amen...

[ka5ysy]

umm, Amen...

 

+1

 

Life on the "bleeding edge" is so...um........ "interesting".

 

 

Here's to us alpha and beta testers

[Richard_D]

It seems that a large part of the "ownership experience" results from the dealer(s) with whom one does business. Some shops seem to have a better grasp of the situation than others.

 

Although I have posted this before, BMW of Denver has always treated me fairly. Yes, my R1200ST had a u-joint failure that could have been catastrophic, but the dealer and BMWNA covered most of it even though the bike was out of warranty. Consequently, they can reasonably expect more of my business.

 

The local Audi dealer (Stammler) has also been exemplary. Although other cars have their strong points, I will probably continue to buy Audis from Stammler.

If you don't enjoy something you bought, get rid of it and move on.

 

Bob

This post makes the most important point for most bike failures. We all expect that no mechanical item will last forever without a problem. How the dealer reacts is the most important task at hand. Some people never understand why people complain in public about certain dealers but if all the dealers read BMWST and other bike forums , it just might make them a better dealer. A thread about listing great dealers might be in order. Even if you can't please everyone, we can all look at the statistics of a dealer and it would help.

 

[tallman]

Richard,

Even that needs a grain of salt.

I've been bashed on multiple forums by a person who out and out lied about the experience.

Owner (dealer) advised me to ignore it and give it time it would go away. He was right, but a miserable experience.

Recently sold a bike to an out of stater.

He came back for service.

While there we had a "customer" come in.

Talked tohim for half an hour about every bike on the floor.

"Customer" left.

We said something to the effect of "that guy will never buy a bike."

The other person from out of state then posted on another forum about us bashing a customer and he'll never return, then proceeded to salso supply some intentional misinformation.

What he didn't know was the "customer" was dropping in for literally the 374th time in the past few years.

He monoploizes staff, asks the same questions that are repeatedly and politely answered.

But figure we have spent alomst 10 weeks of time dealing with him.

He hasn't bought anything, and hasn't bought a bike anywhere.

He is fantasizing about owning a bike.

That's fine.

But do it in the privacy of your home with magazines and the internet, please, after a while.

My point is, we could've just ignored the "customer" and been better off.

Often there are three sides to an event and how it is perceived.

 

We have had more than several threads here bashing a dealership where someone from that place has posted "the other side" of the story.

I agree in principle, one should be able to rely on peer review, but go look at any restaurant site and you get everything from 0 to 10.

Almost any product is the same.

 

I agree that the continual harping on negative experiences seems to have given rise to the need for a new forum.

A Go Here To Vent Negative Emotions Forum .

That would isolate the virus and spare the other forums from exposure.

If you wanted the negative experience, a board member would know where to go.

[Glenn Reed]

Often there are three sides to an event and how it is perceived.

 

Good point.

[4wheeldog]

...But if I ever had an issue, guess what, I'd deal with it and move on.

 

same here.. and if failures got common/annoying enough I'd move on to another bike - as opposed to hanging around waiting for opportunities to bitch.

 

Never seen a brand-specific site with so many vocal detractors. I'm almost embarrassed to say that I actually like my bmw motorcycle on bmwst. It's probably just noobie foolishness, surely I'll become bitter soon enough.

 

Don't misunderstand.......I love my BMW. I just will never buy another new one, because of the way BMW corporate deals with (Or rather, doesn't deal with) any issues that arise. My bike has been almost perfect for the last 45k. All the problems in the first 25k of ownership, which BMW did their best to make into a very unpleasant experience. So, why would I spend more money, just to have an unpleasant experience? I will buy used, and avoid the interaction with the effects of BMW corporate. Not hard to understand. They build a wonderful product, then let denial of their minor miscues ruin the experience. The engineering division must really dislike the marketing/product support divisions.

[Frank Cloud]

People have different experiences with different bikes. For instance, my '99 has been a great bike, dealer has been good to deal with (BMW of Atlanta) and that's why I've kept it rather than replace with a new one.

 

However, it never ceases to amaze me that people take it so personally when the brand is criticized.

[Roadwolf]

However, it never ceases to amaze me that people take it so personally when the brand is criticized.

 

I think you are confusing two different things... the people who seem to be overreacting to criticism to all things BMW aren't really, in my opinion. There are legitimate issues/criticisms to be leveled at BMW on certain areas. That much we are in agreement on.

 

My comment was directed towards the constant harping/griping of the brand to the point of bashing ALL things BMW or corporate in general. If you have a problem with the brand to the point of slamming their approach to design and build quality, then why be here at all? We get it, you don't care for the product or the result in the way they/dealer treated you. Make your point and move on to other pastures. Clearly the majority of BMW owners have not had this experience or if they did, then either they are fools for continuing to buy the motorcycle in the vain hopes of maybe Berlin got it right this time or BMW is going to lose customers in droves with dissatisfaction and go out of business.

 

 

[eddd]

...My comment was directed towards the constant harping/griping of the brand to the point of bashing ALL things BMW or corporate in general. If you have a problem with the brand to the point of slamming their approach to design and build quality, then why be here at all? We get it, you don't care for the product or the result in the way they/dealer treated you. Make your point and move on to other pastures...

 

 

It is likely that a BMW motorcycle brought you to this website initially, but it is the community and its people that keep us coming back. I'm of the opinion that there is room here for any point of view.

[Roadwolf]

Point taken... but it just gets tired/repetitive that when discussions are SOLELY about the bike and it's problems/features/issues/etc. then the gloves are off consistently and unabashedly so. And these people know who they are. Hang around and have fun, fine, even pick at it a little... but beat your chest in a sandbox of like minded brand supporters/fans, not so much fun... or wanted.

[JamesW]

Hi Tim aka Tallman,

Interesting idea about a new forum dedicated to bitching. Sometimes I think that would be the only forum one needs on this web sight.

 

That said I find and have found some of this brand bashing most interesting in that there are times I just can't believe what has been posted. I mean some of what people say is really difficult to swallow I guess because in my 35 years of riding beemers I simply haven't had many problems. Just lucky I guess from reading the posts here.

 

I have owned a couple of Japanese bikes in the distant past, a Honda 360 and a Kaw 650. Nice machines for about 10K miles and then they seemed to loose their new feel most rapidly. A beemer on the other hand just seems to start getting better around 10K plus miles. Oh, I find lubing splines to be a pain but it does give one a good feeling to get in there and do a good job and discover that all is well. Last week I did a spline lube on my '81RT and while at it I replaced the 32/11 tooth final drive with a 34/11 FD because it will better suit my riding style and environment. Not many bikes out there one can fine tune like that and it sure is nice to be able to pick up the phone and order factory fresh parts for the old beast.

 

I will most likely not buy a new motorcycle of any brand again only because I have this fixation about riding into my 70's.

 

Anyway, keep bitching, it is great entertainment and kind of fun reading now and then as well as even informative on rare occasions.

[Richard_D]

I guess my idea was too simple. I thought it would be good to have a thread rating dealers by owner feedback. Not in the form of what happened but a simple good or bad. This way if there were 90 good and 10 bad, I would give them a try and if it was 90 bad and 10 good , I would stay away.

[Boxtop]

However, it never ceases to amaze me that people take it so personally when the brand is criticized.

 

I think you are confusing two different things... the people who seem to be overreacting to criticism to all things BMW aren't really, in my opinion. There are legitimate issues/criticisms to be leveled at BMW on certain areas. That much we are in agreement on.

 

My comment was directed towards the constant harping/griping of the brand to the point of bashing ALL things BMW or corporate in general. If you have a problem with the brand to the point of slamming their approach to design and build quality, then why be here at all? We get it, you don't care for the product or the result in the way they/dealer treated you. Make your point and move on to other pastures. Clearly the majority of BMW owners have not had this experience or if they did, then either they are fools for continuing to buy the motorcycle in the vain hopes of maybe Berlin got it right this time or BMW is going to lose customers in droves with dissatisfaction and go out of business.

 

 

Agreed.

 

With 30k miles on my '09 RT, I'm on my second final drive and second fuel strip, and my final drive seal looks to be weeping again. Frustrating on a $20k bike, sure, but these flaws were well-known when I bought the bike, and they were fixed under warranty without too much inconvenience. In spite of these failures, it's still the favorite of all the bikes I've owned.

 

If the failures continue, maybe someday I'll get fed up. If so, I'll simply sell the bike and get something else. I don't plan to haunt the BMW owners' forums for the rest of my days poor-mouthing BMW and crowing about how my new bike, whatever it is, is so superior.

 

In pickups, it's Ford vs. Chevy vs. Dodge vs. Nissan vs. Toyota. In large outboard motors, it's direct injection two stroke vs. four stroke. In cola, it's Coke vs. Pepsi. There is no resolution to these debates, yet people get really invested, and they lose perspective, and becomes a huge waste of time and energy.

[10ovr]

If the failures continue, maybe someday I'll get fed up. If so, I'll simply sell the bike and get something else. I don't plan to haunt the BMW owners' forums for the rest of my days poor-mouthing BMW and crowing about how my new bike, whatever it is, is so superior.

So I guess you feel the same way about this tread, http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=731161#Post731161 ,Sell the bike,,Move on and not tell anybody they have a time bomb between there legs,,If BMW cared,They would be all over this,,But there not,,Now it's down to a lawsuit ,,It's all about the money,,Sad,,

 

[Boxtop]

So I guess you feel the same way about this tread, http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=731161#Post731161 ,Sell the bike,,Move on and not tell anybody they have a time bomb between there legs,,If BMW cared,They would be all over this,,But there not,,Now it's down to a lawsuit ,,It's all about the money,,Sad,,

 

Well, to be honest, I haven't read that thread, but I'm going to guess that the "ticking time bomb" characterization is a bit exaggerated. Are you saying that selling an RT without reviewing all the known failure modes with the potential buyer is somehow unethical? Nobody feels any such obligation with any other brand, and they all have flaws.

 

Some people grow to feel, sometimes rightly, that they have been burned by a marque, and they choose to make it their life's work to get "payback." I used to see a guy regularly on the freeway during my commute. He drove a Saturn, and in 18" high red letters on both sides of his car were the words "SATURN SUCKS!" I'm not one of those guys. I believe in moving on. Life's too short.

 

I once had a GMC S-15 pickup that was such a POS that it was mind-boggling. After that experience, I won't buy another GM vehicle, but I don't spend my days trashing GM on GM forums. That would just drag me down with negativity, and it's rude to the folks that like their GM's.

[Bob Palin]

Killer,why would you travel 138000 miles on a brand you would never buy again? Just wondering! If people made there bike buying decision based on what they read on these sites, BMW would be out of business. Not saying they dont deserve some shit, but this bashing fest is getting old. MHO

 

Scott

 

Because I own it? My RT has had some issues (transmission, throttle bodies) but it's been OK overall. I'm just not impressed enough with BMW from both my experience and those of other people I know to want to pay the premium or take the risk of getting another one.

[Huzband]

Killer,why would you travel 138000 miles on a brand you would never buy again? Just wondering! If people made there bike buying decision based on what they read on these sites, BMW would be out of business. Not saying they dont deserve some shit, but this bashing fest is getting old. MHO

 

Scott

 

Because I own it? My RT has had some issues (transmission, throttle bodies) but it's been OK overall. I'm just not impressed enough with BMW from both my experience and those of other people I know to want to pay the premium or take the risk of getting another one.

 

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

[Whip]

Killer,why would you travel 138000 miles on a brand you would never buy again? Just wondering! If people made there bike buying decision based on what they read on these sites, BMW would be out of business. Not saying they dont deserve some shit, but this bashing fest is getting old. MHO

 

Scott

 

Because I own it? My RT has had some issues (transmission, throttle bodies) but it's been OK overall. I'm just not impressed enough with BMW from both my experience and those of other people I know to want to pay the premium or take the risk of getting another one.

 

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

 

 

I guess it COULD get lost in the garage?

 

Wouldn't be the first time somethin went in there and was never seen again.

 

 

 

 

[Bob Palin]

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

 

That is something I occasionally think about, including whether I would replace it. I would seriously consider a metric cruiser but I haven't looked to see what's available for quite a while.

[litigator]

There is no doubt in my mind that if I was replacing my RT right now it would be a Connie 14.

[OldBMWMaster]

There is no doubt in my mind that if I was replacing my RT right now it would be a Connie 14.

 

I rode the Kawasaki for a month when a buddy of mine left the state. He did not want to let it set.

 

The bike is smooth, fast, and reliable.

 

I would not have one if I had to ride it on any long trips. The riding position is for a much younger person. My neck was killing me within an hour.

 

The RT "fits" me and my riding style, which is fast and safe.

[thencamebronson]

With complexity comes increasing opportunity for failure.

 

Along with increased comfort, performance, style, and utility.

 

I'll take my chances.

[litigator]

I have bar backs on my RTs, R and Bandit. The ST has Heli-Bars. They cure that neck problem for me, and I've had 4 neck surgeries and 4 of the 7 cervical vertebrae are fused. With Heli-bars, the Connie would fit great. I have also had to try numerous saddles on BMWs, although Russell will be the only one I buy again. My earlier model Connie was the only sport tourer with a stock saddle I could enjoy. I had the neck problem with it, but did not invest in Heli-bars because I did not intend to keep the bike. After riding with anti-lock brakes, I did not want to go without them anymore. The Connie. like my Honda ST, never had any mechanical issues.

[4wheeldog]

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

 

Not addressed to me, but I would like to put in my $.02 worth.

I have stated I would not buy another NEW BMW. This is because I do not wish to deal with the obstructionistic denial and stalling involved with BMW's response to repairs under warranty. I would, however, buy a 3 year old RT, (There are plenty out there with almost no miles, and farkles to boot.)

Life is too short to open myself up to the frustration that making a huge corporation live up to their obligations requires.

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

[Matts_12GS]

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

 

Not addressed to me, but I would like to put in my $.02 worth.

I have stated I would not buy another NEW BMW. This is because I do not wish to deal with the obstructionistic denial and stalling involved with BMW's response to repairs under warranty. I would, however, buy a 3 year old RT, (There are plenty out there with almost no miles, and farkles to boot.)

Life is too short to open myself up to the frustration that making a huge corporation live up to their obligations requires.

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

 

+1

[Roadwolf]

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

 

Be careful what you wish for... that same arrogance abounds at Honda corporate then by your standard... just ask the legions of ST1300 owners who have tried to get the mothership to fix a defect in their thermostat. It is not a matter of if it will fail, but when (at about 25,000 miles, give or take a few). This is just to say that there are levels of this "corporate arrogance" in all companies, in my opinion.

[Mike]

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

 

Be careful what you wish for... that same arrogance abounds at Honda corporate then by your standard... just ask the legions of ST1300 owners who have tried to get the mothership to fix a defect in their thermostat. It is not a matter of if it will fail, but when (at about 25,000 miles, give or take a few). This is just to say that there are levels of this "corporate arrogance" in all companies, in my opinion.

 

I don't know how I'd characterize it, but this sort of response (or non-response) seems fairly universal across a wide variety of motor vehicles. It seems to be almost entirely a financial question--i.e., What is the cost of a "blanket" recall, as opposed to the cost of fixing those failures we only have to to fix?

 

Companies such as these are run, in large part, by bean counters and not be aficionados of things motorized. In addition, I truly believe that issues that take on the aura of an endemic catastrophic defect are more often than not amplified by the internet--someone whose final drive busts is more likely to share his experience than someone whose doesn't, and our attention is naturally drawn to those accounts.

 

This is not to say that the problem that causing an individual heartbreak is imaginary, but rather that our perception of the truth can easily be distorted by the medium and the propensity which all have to bitch about the expensive stuff we buy that breaks.

[Firefight911]

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

 

Not addressed to me, but I would like to put in my $.02 worth.

I have stated I would not buy another NEW BMW. This is because I do not wish to deal with the obstructionistic denial and stalling involved with BMW's response to repairs under warranty. I would, however, buy a 3 year old RT, (There are plenty out there with almost no miles, and farkles to boot.)

Life is too short to open myself up to the frustration that making a huge corporation live up to their obligations requires.

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

 

I agree wholeheartedly! +1

 

I always have said, and still maintain, the BMWs have always been amazing when they work. Jamie and I were just talking Sunday how much we miss my K1300GT. Don't miss any of the problems but when that thing ran right, man, couldn't beat it for anything!

 

I also have stated, and still maintain, that I can see another BMW in my future. Most likely an RT, lightly used, a couple years old, yada, yada, yada.

[Linz]

I love my '02 R1150RT but I know that it's a hand grenade waiting to blow.

 

It's already done the ABS servo pump (replaced) at 35,000Kms. I'm sure that the splines with go when I'm further from home (and probably in the rain on a cold night). This place has taught me more about looking after my BMW's than any other site for any other brand, but geez, it's made me nervous...

 

For me, when and if the new Triumph Trophy ever manifests itself (supposedly mid next year), I'm off. Having owned three Triumph triples (one Meridan, two Hinckleys), that will do me nicely.

 

Linz

[JamesW]

Linz, just make sure to pack your cell phone when you ride. Uhhh, they do have cell service down under??

 

 

[4wheeldog]

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

 

Be careful what you wish for... that same arrogance abounds at Honda corporate then by your standard... just ask the legions of ST1300 owners who have tried to get the mothership to fix a defect in their thermostat. It is not a matter of if it will fail, but when (at about 25,000 miles, give or take a few). This is just to say that there are levels of this "corporate arrogance" in all companies, in my opinion.

 

I have no recent direct experience with new Honda motorcycles. But I have seen how they handle problems that turn up in their cars. They fix stuff, no matter how major the fix might be. Definitely a different experience than I had with my 5 month old RT with a leaky ABS pump that corporate would not ship a part to fix because their computer could not read a fault. Dealer also refused to order the $2k plus part, that I offered to pay for in advance, because I told the service advisor that BMW would eventually pay either way. My point was that they would then have the opportunity to examine the (Clearly leaking externally) part, and would then reimburse me. The S.A. apparently took my meaning to be that I would sic a lawyer on them. Not in my DNA. After the bike sat for a couple of weeks, I finally demanded contact info for the rep. He was so unwilling to talk to me that the new part was there the NEXT DAY! That was my first experience. The final drive story wasn't much better. Which is why I would prefer to buy used, and be responsible for any and all repairs myself.

[dhanson]

Which begs the question... if you lost the RT for what ever reason, what would you replace it with?

 

Not a trap, just a curious question.

 

Not addressed to me, but I would like to put in my $.02 worth.

I have stated I would not buy another NEW BMW. This is because I do not wish to deal with the obstructionistic denial and stalling involved with BMW's response to repairs under warranty. I would, however, buy a 3 year old RT, (There are plenty out there with almost no miles, and farkles to boot.)

Life is too short to open myself up to the frustration that making a huge corporation live up to their obligations requires.

If I were to buy new, it would be a Honda or a Kawasaki. Their corporate philosophy seems to be to fix the problem, not the blame. And repeat customers have some value to them........Clearly a different world view than BMW's arrogance.

 

I agree wholeheartedly! +1

 

I always have said, and still maintain, the BMWs have always been amazing when they work. Jamie and I were just talking Sunday how much we miss my K1300GT. Don't miss any of the problems but when that thing ran right, man, couldn't beat it for anything!

 

I also have stated, and still maintain, that I can see another BMW in my future. Most likely an RT, lightly used, a couple years old, yada, yada, yada.

 

Likewise ref my 07 K12GT, when I finally got the fueling issues fixed and FD replaced (twice) it was a nice bike and I really liked it. BUT, the worrying about the next big battle I would get into with the dealer over a "Never heard of this happening before" deal in the future put me off.

 

I saw FD get fixed when bike was out of warranty because they choose to. I knew if it was me, they would have choose not to.

 

As to what some on the forums perceive as bashing, I feel as a responsible previous owner I must inform possible new owners that you should do some research and get to know your dealer. Either way, the experience will not be cheap or relaxing to deal with.

[tallman]

Which you have done.

Again and again.

So are to expect that until you have informed every new owner you will do this?

Why?

There are many who make points, positive and negative about ownership.

Any potential new owner can certainly find out all, and more than they might need, with a little due dilligence.

 

I disagree.

Even before I began part time work at a BMW dealership my bikes were a pleasure to own.

My experiences at the dealership was a very positive one.

I've seen thousands of owners who are happy.

I've seen problems, many resolved when the dealer acted before

"approval" to do what was right.

There are problems with all motorcycles.

There are many positive experiences too.

 

If I had moved on to another brand, and was happy with that, I think I would put more energy into enjoying the present and looking forward to the future rather than dwelling on the past.

Best wishes.

[scott r1200rt]

See Linz, this site has your bike broken down before it is even broke. If you are that scared now, go get the triumph.

[10ovr]

I don't think this is about Dealers,,Its about BMWNA,,We have 2 fantastic dealers in AZ,,Iron Horse and GoAZ,,The 3rd one we wont talk about,,,,The dealer tells BMWNA what the problem is with the bike and BMWNA wont authorize the repair,,Puts the dealer in-between a rock and a hard place,,

[dhanson]

For tallman, I assume you are a salesman, I don't know really, but as long as you tout the brand as the best I will bring attention to alternatives. Not all people like to waste money just to be on a brand and wear rose colored glasses.

 

But I only owned one BMW, and it was bought used. The BMW attitude is really culprit, nothing can be wrong with these bikes, look at how many we sold. LOL

[tallman]

So all I have to do is not say "brand is the best" and you'll stop.

Esy enough.

Consider it done.

Now hold up your end of your deal.

Looking forward to that.