Signing out

[t_bills]

Thanks to all who have been helpful over my short experience with BMW. Today it became apparent that I will no longer own (nor ever will again) a BMW motorcycle. I am demanding a refund on my 2011 R1200RT. I took it in to Pandora Motorsports in Chattanooga, TN so that a mechanic could verify the failure. When leaving, the owner came out and picked a fight with me. He lied to me. He falsely accused me. He provoked me. Then he threatened to call the police on me (I don't know what he thinks I did illegally) and ordered me off his property (I was trying to leave when he followed me out to the parking lot). Between my difficulties with BMW North America and Pandora Motorsports, I have no interest in owning a BMW.

 

For all who have helped me, thank you very much. For those who I have ridden with, great riding. Happy riding to all. May you have better luck than I.

 

Thomas Williams

[notacop]

Sure is a interesting take on diplomacy, Just Golly folks.

 

[upflying]

All because of a left handle bar switch failure?

[KDeline]

Try going through what I have the last 5 years.....

[Firefight911]

Try going through what I have the last 5 years.....

 

Beat me to it! And I had five switch failures along with all the other stuff and that isn't even what they lemon lawed that one back for!!!

[10ovr]

Don't blame ya Thomas,,If my 07RT was not payed off and I did not do my own work on it,,The Bike would have been gone a long time ago ,,,BMW does not back what they sell,,Bottom line,,It's all about the money,Not the customer,

[Sonor]

I stopped going to the dealer years ago. But then again I am lucky in that the mechanic I use is a local owner operator of an independent shop. I told him right before buying my used 05 RT, I said, "Peter, if it weren't for you, I would not be purchasing a Beemer."

[philbytx]

You are just a Sado-Masochist Ken LOL!

 

"Stop it, I like it"

[scott r1200rt]

It is a shame that BMW treats there customers like that. I am a loyal owner but it kill me when this happens. I really wish they would read these forums and get a clue!

 

Scott

 

[ScottT]

You're going to give yourself a stroke and set every bridge you ever crossed in flames. God help the next dealer who sells a bike to you that so much as burns out a bulb. Life's to short to go ape **** over switchgear... especially when they're paying for it. Yes it has cost you time in the dealer but me thinks the more worked up you got the longer each stay was for your bike. Just say'in.

[xit109]

I stopped going to the dealer years ago. But then again I am lucky in that the mechanic I use is a local owner operator of an independent shop. I told him right before buying my used 05 RT, I said, "Peter, if it weren't for you, I would not be purchasing a Beemer."

 

I had my first experience with Peter recently. I feel very comfortable at his shop. Nothing against the local dealer, They are just open the same hours I work. Peter came highly recommended. Gonna do a 12K service with him soon.

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Thanks to all who have been helpful over my short experience with BMW. Today it became apparent that I will no longer own (nor ever will again) a BMW motorcycle. I am demanding a refund on my 2011 R1200RT. I took it in to Pandora Motorsports in Chattanooga, TN so that a mechanic could verify the failure. When leaving, the owner came out and picked a fight with me. He lied to me. He falsely accused me. He provoked me. Then he threatened to call the police on me (I don't know what he thinks I did illegally) and ordered me off his property (I was trying to leave when he followed me out to the parking lot). Between my difficulties with BMW North America and Pandora Motorsports, I have no interest in owning a BMW.

 

For all who have helped me, thank you very much. For those who I have ridden with, great riding. Happy riding to all. May you have better luck than I.

 

Thomas Williams

 

DON'T LEAVE US!

 

We don't really care what you ride. Honestly. Check out that Firefight guy... he doesn't even own a BMW and is a serial-poster around here. There's plenty others too, so keep us informed about whatever bike you do buy, and we'll see ya at the next ride anyway.

[STRUMMER]

What's your next bike?

[Firefight911]

You're going to give yourself a stroke and set every bridge you ever crossed in flames. God help the next dealer who sells a bike to you that so much as burns out a bulb. Life's to short to go ape **** over switchgear... especially when they're paying for it. Yes it has cost you time in the dealer but me thinks the more worked up you got the longer each stay was for your bike. Just say'in.

 

Scott, no offense intended here but if you haven't faced what the OP is facing and what several others have faced you don't understand the level of frustration going on, the blame, the denial, and the attitude.....and this is only from the initial contacts with the dealer and then repeated if/when it gets to the next level up being either the area rep or "customer relations."

 

As I have indicated many, many times, emotion serves no one well in this situation. It is, on a good day, a monumental battle to not get infuriated over what takes place.

 

Oh, and going ape shit over switchgear????? Uh, you mean the switch gear that starts the bike? That switch gear? Or do you mean the switch gear that shuts it off, or turns the turn signals on and off, or was it the switch gear for the suspension, or the windshield, or the cruise control.

 

Eh, it doesn't matter in the end I guess because the bike will most likely sit in the shop for a minimum of two to three weeks EACH TIME the switch gear goes out.

 

But, hey, it's only switch gear.

[ScottT]

Scott, no offense intended here but if you haven't faced what the OP is facing and what several others have faced you don't understand the level of frustration going on, the blame, the denial, and the attitude.....and this is only from the initial contacts with the dealer and then repeated if/when it gets to the next level up being either the area rep or "customer relations."

 

Yeah, I have no idea.

 

1977 R100/7

- Blown rear main seal leading to collasped right side piston and fouled clutch.

- Rear drive splines worn out, new rear drive required around 120k. Lasted after bike sold with 250k plus

- Chronic gas on boots because of stuck Bing floats

- Failed alternator. Rebuild required.

 

1984 R100RS

- Chronic gas on boots because of stuck Bing floats

- Rear drive splines worn out, new rear drive required around 100k

- Diode board melted during one high speed trip in Germany.

- Failed alternator. Rebuild required.

- Failed stock coils

 

1994 R110RS

All repaired under warranty

- Two rear shocks - blown seals (covered in Germany)

- Bent rear subframe

- Transmission replaced

- First gen valve cover gasket blow outs

- Three throttle body replacements

- Two front brake master cylinders

- Both saddle bag lids delaminated (and the bags were late)

- Over half a dozen roundel replacements

- Left side exhaust rocker siezure. Required piston repair, new valves and valve seat repair.

 

1998 R1100RS

All repaired under warranty

- Battery cracked. Acid damage on left side.

- Leaking rear main seal. Clutch replaced along with seal.

 

2002 R1150RS

All repaired under warranty

- Brake servo unit failure - replaced

 

2005 R1200RT

- Horn cuts off after about one second. Repaired by me.

- Left switch complex failure (turn signal). Repaired by me at 30k. Still good at 104k

- Leaking right rear drive seal, dealer replaced.

[Richard_D]

It all depends on how the dealer treats you. When I bought a new Rt and the techs. ran the screws through the plastic . The service manager said they all do that. I approached the owner and he said I should go buy a Honda. I contacted BMWNA and they called him 3 times and finally told me they can't make him do anything about it. The previos owner of the dealership was the best around but after being treated like that , what can you do but get a real bad taste in your mouth. It's like any profession. Have a craftsman come to your house and do a lousy job. Call the store you dealt with and they just blow you off and see how you like it.

[jprann]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

[Jim Moore]

Subscribed!

[Richard_D]

It's good to see someone sticking up for himself here.

[Matts_12GS]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

 

Welcome Justin, thanks for dropping in.

 

I've heard lots of good about you guys, and this is the only negative I am aware of. I like your newsletter and what I learn from it.

 

[Jaguar]

I've been in the service industry dealing with the public. (not motorcycles). No matter how hard you try or how good of a job you do, there are always those customers you just can't please. You bend over backwards and jump threw hoops to no avail. I don't know either person with this issue, but Thank you Justin for the other side of this story.

[tallman]

The overwhelming majority of BMW owners have few, if any, serious problems with their bikes.

The overwhelming majority have positive experiences at their dealershipsd.

"They" rarely post.

 

I've helped people get new bikes, and get their bike repurchased from BMW.

I"ve also seen a ton of out of warranty goodwill work done by BMW.

Sometimes it has taken a long time.

In almost every case it has been resolved.

 

Blanket statements about dealerships are bull.

Blanket stements about BMW bikes are bull.

Blanket statments about BMW riders are bull.

 

BMW has sold close to 70,000 bikes in the USA in the past 4-5 years.

The number of internet posts about lemons is not quite that high.

Have a great day.

[10ovr]

The overwhelming majority of BMW owners have few, if any, serious problems with their bikes.

The overwhelming majority have positive experiences at their dealershipsd.

"They" rarely post.

 

I've helped people get new bikes, and get their bike repurchased from BMW.

I"ve also seen a ton of out of warranty goodwill work done by BMW.

Sometimes it has taken a long time.

In almost every case it has been resolved.

 

Blanket statements about dealerships are bull.

Blanket stements about BMW bikes are bull.

Blanket statments about BMW riders are bull.

 

BMW has sold close to 70,000 bikes in the USA in the past 4-5 years.

The number of internet posts about lemons is not quite that high.

Have a great day.

[bobbybob]

Thanks to all who have been helpful over my short experience with BMW. Today it became apparent that I will no longer own (nor ever will again) a BMW motorcycle. I am demanding a refund on my 2011 R1200RT. I took it in to Pandora Motorsports in Chattanooga, TN so that a mechanic could verify the failure. When leaving, the owner came out and picked a fight with me. He lied to me. He falsely accused me. He provoked me. Then he threatened to call the police on me (I don't know what he thinks I did illegally) and ordered me off his property (I was trying to leave when he followed me out to the parking lot). Between my difficulties with BMW North America and Pandora Motorsports, I have no interest in owning a BMW.

 

For all who have helped me, thank you very much. For those who I have ridden with, great riding. Happy riding to all. May you have better luck than I.

 

Thomas Williams

 

Thomas, I have read the other posts including the one from Pandora's owner. It all begs the questions:

 

1) Did they agree to take the bike back and refund your money?

 

2) Why did the DEALER have to get so emotionally upset? Please don't say you have no idea....

[Glenn Reed]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

 

I agree with others that it is helpful to get the perspective of the person on the other side of the story, so thanks for taking the time to join here and post.

 

Irrespective of the final interaction, I for one would like to hear your thoughts on his assertion in the original thread that he has had four consecutive times with failures of the switch gear on his bike.

 

Again, thanks for helping us get a better picture.

[bobbybob]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

 

Justin, what do you mean by "his RT is fine" ? Is it finally fixed? Could you elaborate on the issues he has had with that bike?

 

Not gonna play he said/she said on all the allegations, but I would think that, as an owner, you would be able to ignore any customerial hyperventalism and keep your cool just to get it all over with and avoid stuff like this thread.

 

 

[SteveHebert]

I don't know anything about Thomas, but I do know a great deal about Justin and his father. Justin is a great friend of the Alabama BMW club, is well respected and is very honest. He cares very much about the riding community and his friends/customers.

 

Before he opened his shop, and the very same day he left BMW corporate in VA, he rode his R1200GSA from VA to our campsite just outside of Chatanooga to meet the club and discuss his business plan with us until late in the evening.

 

I am sorry that Thomas has had issues but attitude goes a long way.

 

And that is all I have to say about that!

[UberXY]

Never clear to me the value of taking a private matter public.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Never clear to me the value of taking a private matter public.

 

Amen.

[12R12RT]

Clearly then, you neither understand nor are a big fan of the Kardashians...

 

 

Tom

[RPG]

It seems certain there's another side to this story that we'll never get to hear.

 

RPG

[Dan M]

Clearly then, you neither understand nor are a big fan of the Kardashians...

 

 

Tom

 

Good one.

 

There is always two sides to a story. As a service business owner I know that there are some people that you just can not satisfy. I feel sorry for people like that. It seems they go through life never happy with anything.

That is not to say there are no bad business people or dealerships out there but most long time established businesses are there because they cater to the customer. They have to, bad news travels fast, good news travels slow.

[UberXY]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

 

By any chance do you have the security tape from that day?

[BFish]

Never clear to me the value of taking a private matter public.

 

bingo!

[outpost22]

When we had the construction side of our business, we had the "Eff clause" (you figure out what "eff" means"). Though rare, cost was added to bids to cover the attitude of the borderline customer. We also declined to bid many jobs for the same reason. Fortunately, as a private company we didn't have "corporate warranties" to satisfy like BMW dealers do.

 

Not saying the OP falls into this description, nor that the dealer is correct. Just glad I don't have to deal with people that I don't want to deal with.

 

Some things ARE better handled in private

[LBump]

When we had the construction side of our business, we had the "Eff clause" (you figure out what "eff" means"). Though rare, cost was added to bids to cover the attitude of the borderline customer. We also declined to bid many jobs for the same reason. Fortunately, as a private company we didn't have "corporate warranties" to satisfy like BMW dealers do.

 

Not saying the OP falls into this description, nor that the dealer is correct. Just glad I don't have to deal with people that I don't want to deal with.

 

Some things ARE better handled in private

 

 

World English Dictionary

eff (ɛf)

 

— vb

1. euphemism for fu@k : eff off

2. slang eff and blind to use obscene language

 

'effing

 

— n , — adj , — adv

 

 

[Paul Mihalka]

"World English Dictionary

eff (ɛf)

 

— vb

1. euphemism for fu@k : eff off

2. slang eff and blind to use obscene language

 

'effing

 

— n , — adj , — adv"

 

I don't think any of us needed that...

[upflying]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

 

Justin, what do you mean by "his RT is fine" ? Is it finally fixed? Could you elaborate on the issues he has had with that bike?

 

Not gonna play he said/she said on all the allegations, but I would think that, as an owner, you would be able to ignore any customerial hyperventalism and keep your cool just to get it all over with and avoid stuff like this thread.

 

Justin is probably advised by his legal counsel not to discuss this matter any further.

[LBump]

"World English Dictionary

eff (ɛf)

 

vb

1. euphemism for fu@k : eff off

2. slang eff and blind to use obscene language

 

'effing

 

n , adj , adv"

 

I don't think any of us needed that...

 

 

You're right Paul, I hope I didn't offend anyone. I will try to restrain myself...

[jprann]

Hello Glenn,

 

Apparently this was Thomas's fourth switchgear on the left hand side. He purchased the bike from Nashville earlier this year and has had it serviced in Nashville up until last night. BMW requested he take the bike here for a repair attempt as we had the part and are close in proximity...we replaced the switchgear within hours of recieving the bike.

 

From reading what he is putting out on the forums I feel like I am following around a child throwing a temper tantrum.

[Glenn Reed]

Justin,

 

Thanks for the additional info. From one of Thomas's earlier posts, he works in an environment where everything is supposed to be black and white, and he was operating off of the presumption that BMWNA had ten days to effect the fourth repair, otherwise the Lemon Law process would move forward. When this repair attempt did not happen until after the ten days, he was prepared to have things go in one direction, and you guys were just set up to do the repair.

 

A long time ago I attended a training session where someone said "frustration is when expectations and reality don't match up". and I have a feeling that this is at least part of why Thomas is/was so upset.

 

Not saying you could have done anything, this boulder was in motion from well before he even showed up.

 

Best of luck going forward. It's tough out there, and from earlier posts, it looks like there are folks out there who appreciate your service. I think that's what it's going to take to make it through the times we're in.

[Firefight911]

Well written post Glenn.

[jprann]

Thank you Glenn,

 

Yes you are right this was in motion well before we interacted with the customer. Apologies for my tantrum comment, that was not called for.

 

We at Pandora's hope this works out to Thomas's satisfaction, so he can get back to having fun and riding his bike.

[bobbybob]

OK, so the switchgear was replaced for the 4th time and Thomas still has the bike. I'd be interested to hear from him how it holds up this time, whether he keeps it OR returns it under the lemon law, as there are other instances of this same failure in this forum. Has BMW made improvements to the part so that failures will not continue? I have an '07 RT and had toyed with the idea of "upgrading" to a camhead model, but not so sure its an upgrade at this point.

 

If it were to continue, returning it is certainly justified. The customer should not be expected to take it to the shop every few months for a new switch, regardless that its covered by BMW.

[dhanson]

Bottom line, like I said before, if you purchase a BMW you better be ready for a wild ride. I will never go there again, I don't need nor want the aggravation. You must keep it in warranty to fix all the problems and then you must fight with the dealer to get the warranty.

 

The bike is not cheap, there are alternatives that work just as well and in my case much better. The ABS on my bike actually works on and off road. I know, hard for GS riders to believe.

 

I have met and continue to meet some really great people on this forum as riders and most of them are on BMWs, that is the only reason I hang out. I appreciate BMW for giving lots of people rides, but I am not interested in the bike for me.

[bobbybob]

The ABS on my bike actually works on and off road. I know, hard for GS riders to believe.

 

OK, now ya got me interested. Are you saying the Tenere's ABS works so well on gravel that turning the ABS off is not necessary when you hit the dirt? If so, how does that work?

[Green RT]

My name is Justin Prann, I own Pandora's European Motorsports. We have had nothing but trouble with Thomas and we were warned by others this is how he would act.

He was disrespectful, rude, and condescending to all of the team members.

 

Unfortunately that kind of behavior is not welcome in our store. His RT is fine and he actually keeps a fairly clean bike...I would buy it

 

There are always two sides to these stories. I am glad you posted yours, so that those of us who forget that fact won't go away assuming things are exactly as the first person to post says they are.

[Firefight911]

The ABS on my bike actually works on and off road. I know, hard for GS riders to believe.

 

OK, now ya got me interested. Are you saying the Tenere's ABS works so well on gravel that turning the ABS off is not necessary when you hit the dirt? If so, how does that work?

 

He doesn't lie! The ABS is amazing on the bike. Not to derail this thread (it's got a pulse of its own) but during THIS day the ABS never got turned off even though we were told several times it needed to be....and it did if you were on a BMW.

 

Gravel, single track, baby heads, descents...I've done them all and never once wished I had turned ABS off!

[bobbybob]

The ABS on my bike actually works on and off road. I know, hard for GS riders to believe.

 

OK, now ya got me interested. Are you saying the Tenere's ABS works so well on gravel that turning the ABS off is not necessary when you hit the dirt? If so, how does that work?

 

He doesn't lie! The ABS is amazing on the bike. Not to derail this thread (it's got a pulse of its own) but during THIS day the ABS never got turned off even though we were told several times it needed to be....and it did if you were on a BMW.

 

Gravel, single track, baby heads, descents...I've done them all and never once wished I had turned ABS off!

 

So is the "pulse" very fast, or variable, or what?...as opposed to the slow pulse on the BMW's? Doesn't surprise me that Yamaha has the latest technology! Nice ride report from rawhyde too.

 

(can you even turn it off on a S-ten?)

[scott r1200rt]

I must say, my BMW has not been perfect but my dealer has. I have had nothing but great service from them. A great dealer makes a problem bike a lot easier to deal with. I have a 2010 rt with 11000 miles. I have had to replace front shock, rear shock and 2 fuels strips, and that was all before 3000 miles, has been flawless since. But the dealer took care of it, gave me a loaner and all is good, love the bike. Just in case you want to know, it is Second wind BMW in Merrimack nh. So there is a dealer compliment, like someone said, you don't hear it enough.

 

Scott