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R12RT vs R1150RT


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Having just relocated across county, I had to sell off most of my fleet. The one I miss the worst is my 1996 R1100RT. So as I look to the future and a re-filled garage. But what should I buy. Obviously the price of a 1150 is better because someone else took the depreciation hit. But I heard horror stories about the linked brakes, surging, carbon build-up, etc. The 1200 is newer, lighter but down right ugly. What to do?


So I turn the question over to the board. I have been MIA here lately and cannot spend a lot of time doing searches. Besides, those searchs are dated and I need the current thinking of the board. Some questions would include,, what years of the 1150's had the twin spark. Did it eliminate the surging. Are there anyways around the sensitivity of the linked ABS. Is the suspension any better on the 1200's after 25k miles than the 1150's or are Ohlins still the answer. Any replies with information that would make me sway one way or the other would be greatly appreciatrd.

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I had a late model 02, 1150RT. I did not like the linked brakes. You will most likely read that statement from some others who will post. I have not read one post from a new owner of the 1200 who has complained about surging.

I agree with you that the R1200RT is not the prettiest face in the beauty contest but the overwhelming majority of reports on this board have been very positive about this bike. Yep, you'll save a few $$ but there's apparently a lot of difference that you'll get for your bucks. I would suggest that you ride a 1200RT and if possible, an 1150RT to see for yourself.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

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More power and non clunking transmission come to mind.


Well, 1150 = not much difference in either the power or the transmission, plus you get the messed up brakes. If you felt that the 1100 was lacking in the power dept. you might want to go straight to the 1200.

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I currently ride an 04 1150rt and would say if you are going to go with 1150, go with the 04 only. twin-plug = no surge, smoother running at all ranges, better pull from low rpms. Each year of the 1150, the brakes were improved with the 04 being best of breed, but, i personally would rather have the semi-linked system as i have dumped it in the parking lot several times. Transmission is much better than the 5 speed i had in my 97 r1100rs, shorter throws, better ranges. the 17 inch rear wheel makes the bike feel quicker to turn and lighter than the 18 incher on the 1100 and many more tires to choose from. BUT, I have ridden a 1200. i wish i hadn't. if i didn't have this 04, i would go right to the 1200 ugly or not (and they get better looking the longer you look, must be the beer colored glasses).

hope this helps.


tom collins

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I ran a 2001 1150RT for 3+ years or near on 50K miles before switching to the 1200RT in Mar 05. Although many others did, I didn't have problems with surging on the 1150RT (a swap of the coding plug (Pink) by the dealer for one that I think was on the GS (Olive Green)) eliminated that before I got it but I hankered for a bit more response. I later solved that by fitting a Techlusion R259 unit that cons the fuel system into injecting extra fuel under certain conditions. It became a real fun bike to ride.


I had no problems with the linked brakes and soon learnt to be gentle with them. The ability to stop on a dime with servo-assisted brakes was literally a lifesaver in heavy traffic when I was filtering and the ability to apply full braking by touching the footbrake was very useful. Only in slow riding did I miss the ability to control the bike with the rearbrake - it's a skill with linked brakes because the front comes on as well but it's a skill you can soon master.


However, I think the early 1150RT was a technological step too far in a number of areas (surging, overheating engines with exhaust valves burning out - to name but two).


Although i believe some of the problems were ironed out in later versions of the 1150RT I got a bit fed up of engine vibes and the clunky gearchange and when I read the detailed specification for the new R1200RT I went straight out and ordered one without even a testride. It really is such a different bike in so many ways and I think the press reports are spot on when they say the BMW tourer (already a leader in its class) just got better.


I have run my 1200RT for 7000 miles now and I wouldn't go back to the 1150. It is faster, smoother, handles better, has better lights, better clearance and yet it does all this more economically than the 1150RT. My average mpg (UK) was around 45 (42 with the techlusion) and now on the 1200RT I get 50mpg.


There's only two areas in which i think the 1200RT is worse:


1. It is not as stable in high winds especially when the wind is gusting - but of course it is a lighter bike and it is lighter by more than the 20-something kg's reduction in weight on the 1150. The weight has been redistributed and that is a major difference.


2. The claims that the R1200RT offers better weather protection for the rider is a bit of a half-truth. The screen is better and you don't get buffeted on the helmet as I did on the 1150RT but the weather is sucked in to the back of the bike and rider. I only have to go out in the rain once and the back is clagged up and so is the back of my trousers.


Put the R1200RT next to one of the newer Pan Europeans and you'll see that there are a number of striking similarities. I don't think it looks as good as the 1150RT but I sure don't think it is ugly. In fact the more I ride it the more I appreciate the more streamlined look.


If you do buy an 1150RT buy the later versions and not the earlier ones but if you want a taste of a completely new, redesigned, tourer that really has little in common with the previous RT's - go for the 1200RT.


Good luck in your choice - and of course there will be many other views........................

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I concur. In 2001 I entered the sport touring market, and quickly narrowed the choices to the ST 1100 and 1100 RT. To make a long story short, the 1100 had too many issues and I bought a 2001 ST 1100, that I quickly put 96k trouble free miles on.


In 2004 I bought a new ST 1300 a great motorcycle and I'm very happy with it.


Fast Forward to 2005. A test ride on the 1200 and I find every issue I had with the 1100 series solved by BMW. I was never a big fan of boxer twins but the 1200 is such a sweet bike I had to have one. It is alot of fun to ride, and has all the things a great touring bike needs. Pricey? Yes, but I ride ALOT of miles, and in that context find it worth the money.


I still have the 1300 Honda, and enjoy both bikes. Each have their individual merits and I apreciate each manufacturers interpetation of sport touring, with a touring slant.


In 4 months I've logged over 12,000 miles on the RT and outside of the oil warning and ambient temp gauge being inaccurate, have not had a problem.


If you are currently bikeless, I strongly suggest the 1200, if you like BMW it will not disappoint. If it can convert this hard core Honda rider, imagine what it can do for those who have ALWAYS loved the boxer twin?

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Having owned both, as well as a Honda ST1300, VFR, and FJR1300, I 100% recommend the 1200RT as the best bike Ive ever ridden in 12 years of riding. Its as close to the perfect bike for me as u can get. Light enough to be fun in the backroads, comfortable for the highway or in bad weather, reliable. The 1150RT had two things I didnt like: 1. the engine wasnt strong enough for me, compared to the FJR or the ST, or even the VFR. 2. The servo assisted brakes were way too touchy. I hit them once too much in my driveway and down I went. ON the 1200RT, BMW fixed both of those issues. The new engine with counterbalancers is as strong and smooth as Ill ever need for sane backroad riding. THe brakes are smooth and linear, since BMW has backed way off the servo assist in 05-06. No surging on the 1200RT at all. The 1150 I had was twin spark and didnt have any surging, but was a little cold blooded, and even though it was fuel injected it still had an "idle assist" lever on the handlebar. The 1200RT starts and goes. THe 1200 RT handling is light and neutral, lighter than the FJR. I thought the ST 1300 was uncomfortable, for me at 5'6 28 inch inseam. Even on the lowest seat setting, the seat slants into the gas tank and I ended up sliding into the tank and riding on the tank. The 1200 RT seating is much more neutral. I have added aftermarket wunderlich low seat as well. SUre u can get a great deal on the 1150, but the difference between the two bikes in my opinion is so significant as to warrant the extra money. I sold my gold wing to move to the 1200RT for less weight, and did not sacrifice any comfort at all. GOldwing did have better sound system. 1200 CD/radio is the only thing I'd do without. I Love the new ESA on the 1200RT as well. FJR is faster, but has more engine heat, less accesories. FJR would be a close second to me. I have never ridden an 1100RT, but I think the engine upgrades, especially the 2 spark and the counterbalancers are definitely worth the extra money to upgrade. I actually like Hondas V-4 engine best, but couldnt find it in a bike comfortable enough for someone my size. I cant recommend the 1200RT highly enough

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Well, this is the Hexhead forum, what do you think the response will be? Get a hexhead! Listen. I've had all three versions of the RT: '99, '04 and then '05.


I think the '04 RT is the best looking. Get silver, dark blue or black and you'll be the envy of everyone. I wasn't crazy for the brakes and I had to really do the valves and synch right to dial out the vibes. Because of the extra displacement and the tuning for lean running, it shakes a little more when you goose it at low revs. It's smoother and not as smooth at the same time...different. The '04 twin-spark has no surging issues ever. I changed the main plugs to the Bosch with the 4 conductors that everyone uses on this forum in their 1100s and they seemed to help smooth the bike out a little more.


All three RTs had lots of power. They all demand that you get the revs up to find their big power. Both Oilheads made big vibes up in the power band that make you want to back off, but if you just go with it, it all starts to make sense and is very entertaining. The 1200 is very smooth at high revs by comparison and revs to 8,000+. High revs mean high engine braking on all three bikes and that means great control over cornering without the need for rear brake dabbing, which is highly dangerous at speed anyway. Just kick it down a gear or two in the twisties and modulate the throttle and you can change your line mid-corner without much drama. All three bikes are entertaining to ride that way.


I felt the 1150 was the least entertaining of the three in spite of its chassis being a little better than the 1100. I remember a particular Falling Leaf saturday of hellatious fast riding on the 1150. The chassis was so calm through it all. I never put a wheel wrong or felt the least bit on edge all day. I was keeping pace with an SV650 ridden by a very expert rider who was pushing for all he was worth all day. I felt kind of like I'd been on a long car trip at the end. The other guys were all hopped up and adrenalynized. I was almost jealous. Almost.


The 1100 5 speed has better gear ratios than the 1150 6 speed. Seems like 3rd to 4th is nearly the same gear and that there is a whole universe between 5th to 6th . If they split the difference on those two cogs, the thing would be perfect.


The 1200's gears are good. Sometimes I wish for a bit longer 6th, but most of the time I like it where it is because the engine is so smooth and happy at 4000 to 4500. That represents a healthy range of cruising speeds on this bike.


I just took a 2,000 mile ride with a guy. I had my new 1200RT and he had a pristine 98 RT with about 10,000 miles on it that he paid peanuts for. He's a clean bike freak on a trip and I feel that unless I can really wash the thing, I'm just going to scratch the finish for an hour or two of bling before things get ugly again, so I pretty much leave it. Well, he got all the "hey, cool bike" compliments in spite of my paying maybe double what he did for his bike. The amount of times I dusted him were about 3 in 5 days of riding. Sport touring shouldn't be a competitive thing like that anyway. All three bikes have wide torque and good engine braking. They all handle better than they should and they'll all go fast enough to get you in a mess of trouble if you're not paying attention to your riding skills.


I'd get a 2000 R1100RT and load it up with every used aftermarket goodie I could find with no regrets...


...or I'd have no trouble with buying an '04 Twin Spark RT for just a little more money and doing the same thing. Most everything that fits an 1100 will fit an 1150. Most '04 1150s were purchased at bargain prices when they were new, so many owners looking for 1200s are willing to deal.


I can also highly recommend the 1200 for a ton of reasons..but it's not complete either. My bike has had a Wilbers suspension added and a small BMW top trunk, which was not cheap. I also put peg extenders on simply because the 1200's pegs are so close together that you get all the ground clearance you need without ever touching. Even with the extenders, I scrape only rarely. I did hit them hard twice running Deals Gap with a full load of luggage, but it didn't upset the bike, just caused me to have to lift my inside foot a bit. I also got handlebar risers and they help me see out the mirrors better. I was able to lower the seat with the peg extenders which helped with the mirrors as well. I'm still going to get an aftermarket seat and a handlebar mirror.


Stuff that are 1200 godsends that no one has mentioned are 1. Bags that don't demand that you lock them in order to close and latch them. That's great because when you have just one more thing to put in your bags before taking off while everyone else is waiting at the motel with engines running, you don't have to fiddle with the damned key. The system is just convoluted enough that no stranger to new BMW bikes is going to figure out how they open or even that they do open without the key. 2. Being able to check oil without a flashlight using the electronic oil level thingie. It works, in spite of all the bitching about it from people who don't understand its proper function. 3. Being able to monitor outside temp right on the dash. 4. Heated seat. I didn't think I'd care about it until it was 10 above zero on the morning we started our Thanksgiving ride. It's not everything, but it helps....or save your money and buy a full Gerbings outfit. (I didn't get the pants, so the hot seat is nice for me.) 5. The blast of smooth power you get at 6,000 RPMs. 6. The fact that the bike gets even smoother and stronger after about 15K miles. 7. The trans and rear drive unit finally appear to be the rugged and tidy things they should have been from the beginning. Time will tell, but I traded my '99RT in because I was afraid that the rear end or trans would give up the ghost and cost me the value of the bike to fix. No real symptoms, but at 62K, I felt, from reading the experiences of others, that my time would be coming. I just noticed a friend's '04 1150 puking grease out of its diff on this trip as well, so one shouldn't think that the 1150 design has solved all the problems. The 1200 is completely different. We won't know how it holds up for several years, hopefully, but I'm guessing it's going to be stronger.


The stock windscreen needs replacing. I know it's better than the Oilhead's windscreens, but both CeeBaileys and Aeroflow have screens out now that make a next-level improvement. Go for it. The stock seat is also better than even the BMW comfort seat on the 1150 but it's still not really good. I want a real saddle. I think Mayer may get my business this time.


OK, I wasn't in love with the chopped up shapes that seemed to be color-formed onto the 1200RT, especially the mirrors and front fairing pieces. I was ashamed of BMW for so closely copying the cat eyes of the Yamahas and Honda ST1300. BMWs are supposed to be above dirivitive styling like that. I really wanted to buy but just coudn't put money down for such an ugly thing. I saw a Dark Graphite with dark lowers. The bike looks more coherent in one color. I would have preferred gloss black, but they didn't offer it. It's available in Germany and I imagine the '06s will have it. The bike should look more than OK in that color.


Strangely enough, I get A LOT of compliments on my bike when I'm out riding around. People roll their windows down at stop lights and say nice things. No accounting for taste, I guess.


Anyway, to sum up, You can't make a mistake here. A cherry 2000 R1100RT with a great aftermarket seat, windscreen, Big Mak bag, top trunk, low noise cat free exhaust, CCP pulled, all synthetic oils, aluminum screw-down oil filler (they don't leak), Ohlins or Wilbers suspension, Ipod and molded earplugs for the best music system made. GPS if you're so inclined, great riding togs including electrics if you live in the winter tundra like me, Metz Z6 tires, maybe even a second set of wheels so you can use up all those half-used tires that you don't want to start the long rides on. What the hell, maybe some sexy paint or pin striping. Go nuts! You're buying this all time classic touring bike for peanuts. Use the extra money for travel expenses, tires, whatever repair pop up etc. You won't go too wrong. Great bike.


Now that I think about it, there's no reason to get the 1150, even the Twin Spark if you're willing to go cat-free. They're a scosh faster and they'll out corner an 1100 just by a little bit, but an 1100 with a Wilbers or Ohlins suspension is a force to be reconed with. Take the cat and cat code plug out and surging issues are over. The bike will run smoother overall than an 1150 too. Learn to tune it yourself. Fix things as soon as they start to look weak...like the butterfly bearing on the right side throttle body...just get a new whole throttle body assembly and don't think twice about it.


Or go all the way and buy a 1200. It's still a little bleeding edge. Lots of software updates are popping up to fix things that I have yet to perceive are broken. Not many accessories available new, let alone used. Enjoy the sophistication of the engine and the great handling, then when you get a few miles on it start flogging it and see if you can even get a glimpse of what it's really capable of. It's a very capable bike. The chassis is really different than what came before. Yada yada yada.


I'm keeping my 1200 for a long time. I like it a lot.




"I love RTs, but mostly I love MY NEW RT."

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However, I think the early 1150RT was a technological step too far in a number of areas...


OK, time for contrarian view. I have been riding a late '02 1150RT for three years and 50K miles and it is certainly the finest bike I have every owned -- and there have been a lot of them over the years. Zero troubles, plenty of power, minimal surging, great handling for a tourer, and I love (yes!) the linked servo ABS.


I have decided NOT to upgrade to the new 1200RT because I can't imagine that the improvement is worth $14K, which is what the upgrade would cost when all the requisite goodies are taken into account. Not to mention that I would have to endure that takes-forever break-in period again!


If I were in the market today, I would look at a 2002-2004 1150RT with enough mileage to be broken in (16K at least, more might be better), decent service records, and a convincing test ride. I would expect to pay $8-9K or maybe even a bit more for a dual-spark primarily because of the somewhat better mileage. Of course I would not buy an obvious surger regardless of price.


FWIW the main issues with the 1150RTs seem to be the surge, which you can identify on the test ride, and post-clutch drive issues including the dreaded spline failure. The actual incident rates are unknown. I'm not sure what the burnt valves reference was to, but this seems quite rare.


Those "overly complex" servo boosted ABS brakes seem quite reliable and trouble-free, although there have been apparently isolated problems, some rather expensive to remedy. Also the servo systems add somewhat to maintenance costs and are probably best addressed at the shop, not in your garage unless you are quite enthusiastic and skilled in such things.


Re gearing ratios, the 1150RT's ratios are great for places like SoCal with truly high-speed freeways. Where typical speeds are slower, 6th gear might be useless and the 5th gear too short for cruising, a factor which you should consider.


Good luck!

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FWIW, I test rode a pristine 1100RT before I bought my R12RT. There is some comparison, but the R12 is immensely better. Smoother, stronger, lighter, better luggage, better wind protection, better range, etc. The lone dissenting opinion I see above doesn't even say he test rode an R12 - instead a rationalization for keeping and feeling better about what he has. I can understand that - if I were in his shoes, I might feel the same way. I have not seen a good 1150 locally in the price range quoted, though.....I have seen some good 1100's in that range.


The R12RT is a very good bike. It gets better and better with passing mileage - similar to what people have said about the R11, and R1150, so I can't wait to see how good it is after 35K or so.


There are a few R12RT 2005 models still available - these come with more goodies for the same price as the 2006 model, plus the pricing might be a little more flexible...


wishing you all the best,



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The lone dissenting opinion I see above doesn't even say he test rode an R12 - instead a rationalization for keeping and feeling better about what he has.


Mike, no I have not ridden an R1200RT. I did ride an R1200GS in Europe for a couple of weeks and it was great for the roads there (not Autobahn!) I believe the new RT is significantly stronger than the GS and certainly better in many ways than my 1150. But $14K better? All the deficiencies of the 1150 can't be worth 25% of that!


Re prices of $8-9K, take a look at this board's classifieds. My 2002 bike has 50K miles, and more by the day...


I hope that you are not calling my viewpoint "rationalization" in order to justify your rather considerable expenditure to yourself. That would truly be rationalization!

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Now I really want my RT1100 back.


If I were you, I would seriously consider that option. How many trips to Europe or wherever can you take for the difference in price? Compare that with the value of an R1200RT versus R1100RT riding experience. I would guess that the pleasure of riding a decent 1100RT is about 80% of the pleasure of riding a new R1200RT. Maybe more. "New" wears off fast. Do your own math!

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For me, I have ridden and experienced the 1200 in RT, GS and ST versions - and I love them!


But then, I have my 1150RT Herman, Moholoho-The Great One. OK, my Rt is slighlty different in that it has all the luggage colour matched, chrome cylinder heads and every extra one could have on the bike. It's a beautiful bike which always draws a crowd at the Ace Cafe. For me personally, it still delivers huge amounts of pleasure, is reliable without exception, will take me anywhere and do anything the 1200 will and, most importantly, it is PAID FOR.


So, with a coveted 1150 with only 22500 miles on the clock, can I justify changing for the 1200 - NO! To me, I see the bike as still having much of its life left. We still have dreams and adventures to share. It is that good in fact, that I have, from the day I bought it, considered this bike to be a "lifer".


But then, in reality, eventually all good things must come to and end. The way I see it, if and when that sad time comes, I know there is something very good waiting as a replacement, and that is the 1200.


So, for what it is worth, I do NOT consider the new 1200 enough to justify changing something that I am immensely satisfied with and proud of. I've run with 1200's on the road and I've never had one leave me behind.


So that's my approach to the question of 1200 or 1150, vague yes, but it makes sense to me.





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OKay...ride them, see which one you like best and buy it! There is so much info on these boards that you can make an educated decision easily. I got the 1200RT because I test rode it and loved it. I already live in Europe, so I don't need to worry about saving money to come over here. It handled really well on the test ride and felt very comfortable. I don't know about the power because my other bike is a lot stronger, but it will do what I need it to do. Don't stress over it...check your budget and see what matches up to your goals. If gadgets are your goal, get a cheaper used bike and spend the extra on gadgets. If you just want to put loads of miles under you, get the new one.

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There are some nice bikes in the classifieds on ibmwr.org. (The bike selection in the classifieds on this list seems a little thin right now.) The later R1150RT's seem to get a premium over the earlier versions. At this time there is a 2005 R12 over there, but it's out here on the left coast....Several listings for low mile 1100, and 1150's, too. Lots of selection on ebay, including dealers. Being where you are, I'm guessing you don't have the out-of-state importation issues that vex us, and drive new prices up here in Ca. After I test rode the R12, there was no going back. The gearbox is much smoother than the 1100's I rode.


Ride your own ride! smile.gif


all the best,



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Hi dennis,

i have only had my 02rt for a couple of months now, almost bought a brand new 05 1200 and backed out at the last sec.

the depreciation factor was just to much to contend with.


Especially with the 02rt I found for almost 1/2 the price tag. I really truly love the bike, weather I'm in the twistiest, going Turing, or just out for a quick spin around town.


My last ride was a 95 Honda cbr900rr of corse these 2 bikes are worlds apart in their sprites, butI wouldn't deny the 1150 it's place in the lineup.


It truly is a great all around bike. and yes I also like the linked brakes, it's a added sense of safety after you master them. hope this helps thumbsup.gif




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Thanks for all the replies. I am currently not bikeless (see attachment) and the old beast actually shifts better than my RT1100 did. The thread on the 1-2 shift clunk on a new RT1200 has be re-considering the BMW marque. I also realize that I should have posted this thread in another forum for more replies but I was in hexheads when I started. Again, thanks for all the info.


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I sold autos for 15 years. They told us that 85% of all objections were in fact price. If you can afford a 12RT buy it. That 1-2 clunk business is bunk. Operator error if it exists at all. Mine does not clunk either shifting up or down. I do sync the Rs when shifting. The R1200RT is probably the best sport/tourer currently in the market place. If you can't afford it buy a used ???

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That 1-2 clunk business is bunk. Operator error if it exists at all.


Now where have I heard that before..? grin.gif (with respect to BMW shifting issues)

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AS far as replies go you did pretty good. I had a 2002 rt that I liked but yet didnot keep it very long. Fast forward to 2004. Softer brakes,2 spark and no surge period. By 05 I had covered 16,000 miles. Then a 5 mile test on an R1200 and I knew what I would do. 7,000 miles smile.gifon the 2005RT and I am hooked. It is that much better. $7,000 diff. with ESA,computer,oil level check large top box extra power outlet. Would I consider resending the deal? No way. Leon

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IMHO the R12RT is an awesome bike that deserves serious consideration. If you like boxers, this is one sweet ride! thumbsup.gif


I'm a one-bike rider, so my ride has to serve multiple roles. I like to travel, but the objective of any highway run is to find a new twisty - sometimes halfway across the country. For me, the R12RT provides the best balance of long-distance comfort and go-fast, hanging-out fun when you get there of anything I've ever been on.


My previous all-time favorite ride was the R11RT. I liked the handling and weather protection (50 mile daily commutes year-round in Northern Missouri), but the bike always seemed slightly underpowered.


After a brief (22k miles) fling with a K12GT and one each of almost every documented GT issue, I was back in the market. I had written off RT's when BMW linked the brakes, but promised myself I'd give the RT another chance if BMW ever came to it's senses on the brake issue. (There should be a law against linking the front brake to the rear brake pedal.)


My first test ride was somewhat pedestrian - following a preplanned dealer route. I almost walked away at that point, because I was looking hard at the FJR and ST1300.


Something made me go back and ask for another ride on some real backroads. Thirty miles later, I was hooked. The bike has a great power/weight ratio. The boxer vibes have great character - you can feel the power, but it never gets obnoxious. The weather protection is great (but not quite as good as the R11RT). I wasn't impressed with the test bike's Road Pilot tires - they seem to give up too soon in the turns - but with MEZ4's or Z6's the bike will lean all day.


I've only had a few short test rides (maybe 100 miles total) on R1150RT's, but for me there's a world of difference between the R12RT and it's two older siblings. Maybe they can keep up, but the R12 will always set the pace - without ever breaking a sweat.


It's also the only Beemer I've ever had that gets compliments at almost every gas stop. (I still think the others look better - go figure. eek.gif)



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Doesn't the final drive issue still exist with the new 1200's? I've heard of a few failures but not sure what i'm hearing is legitimate.

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Doesn't the final drive issue still exist with the new 1200's? I've heard of a few failures but not sure what i'm hearing is legitimate.


I think it's way too early to be able to say much of anything about hexhead reliability, gonna have to wait a few more years to know much about that. One would think (or at least hope) that things should move in the positive direction however.

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