Rhinewest's new cam sprockets

[JerryMather]

Has anyone over here installed these,Rhinewest ?

Sounds like a pretty sweet upgrade to me.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

They want a log-in but, if they are adjustable for timing and, you know what you are doing, you can make major changes to the way the bike makes power by subtle changes in the relationship between the intake and exhaust cam timing. You really are into serious tuner type stuff here and you can also get parts into intimate contact that were never designed to be so. If they are just a couple of degrees of advance on the cams, it's really no big deal. The bike will have a bit more low to mid range at the expense of a little breathing on the top. There ain't no free lunch, changing the lobe center relationship can correct for holes in the torque curve and even put a nice big hump in there that wasn't there before. Takes lots and lots of dyno time or runs down a drag strip to know where to go for a particular engine combination. Change the exhaust and you get to start over again. The price isn't bad and the tools required for installation are minimal. The most complex thing is finding exact TDC and learning how to measure valve lift to determine lobe center.

[Aluminum_Butt]

Ed,

 

Here is a link to the Rhine West information. I'm curious to know what you think after reading this. They make it look pretty effective, and reasonable easy to install. The cam gear stuff is toward the bottom. Price for the kit is $559.

 

Rhine West

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Interesting, but I doubt the gains will be worth the price. That is an insane price for a set of sprockets. Same kinda stuff for a Suzuki with full adjustability is on the order of $150.

 

As I mentioned, they just moved the locating pins a few degrees. What you will be paying for is their R&D time and that's OK if you are unwilling or lack the facility to do it yourself. Trouble is, you are putting up with someone elses idea of what a good running K-bike should do. Maybe it won't be to your taste.

 

When I had a K, and with the current CBR1100, I still didn't spend very much time in the RPM ranges that their dyno chart shows benefit. Above 4000 RPM there appears to be only minimal changes, a little smoother and maybe 1 or 2 lb/ft of torque. You just won't notice it.

 

Same 600 will pay for a day at the Code school. A much better deal IMHO.

[BWS]

Will try a response,but will no doubt start to get a little peeved.............About 4 years ago I degreed my stock cams on my "early" KRS.I went on Vics site explaining certain tuning characteristics and procedures for doing so.They proceeded to ream me a "new one".So at that point told'm to EFF off and stopped discussion on the matter.

 

Your biggest hurdle is hooking up a degree wheel on a brick.I machined the tool,which was and is more of a challenge than slightly altering stock cam timing.This is where the numbskulls on Vics sight screwed up.They were so intent on rambling on about timing that they failed on the setup question.

 

The sprocets in question are around 40$ ea. from BM.They are secured with a bolt in cntr. and utilize a locating pin.Rhinewest has done their homework,good for them.If you want to play you have to pay......on way or another.You can spend countless hours studying cam timing,a very deep subject.Then once thats done,you'll need a quick lesson or two in metalurgy.Now throw in a machine shop.Next we get to spend some serious quality time on a dyno.Or you get Rhinewest's.

 

I'm still pissy about the way i was treated on that sight.But will give you a spot of advice nonetheless.Make sure when setting up your sprocet change procedure,whether you've altered sprocets or bought Rhinewest's that you can quickly/accurately change and set them.Otherwise you'll have dyno time spread out too far.IOWs if it takes you all day to swap out,how is that gonna work on dyno?

 

A side benifit from all this is your ignition timing.BM sets it with a dial indicator through #1 SP hole.Having the ability to use a degree wheel clears the ignition timing procedure up as well.Its technically more precise than indicator.

 

Best of luck,BW

[ShovelStrokeEd]

BW,

Doubt you'll get much of the same crap here.

 

I, for one, would be interested to hear your results.

 

Suzuki made it a lot easier by using bolts to secure the sprockets to the cams so we just had to groove the sprockets. I would literally move the cam timing around to suit traction conditions on the drag bike. It was easier, once you have the knack, than resetting the weights and holdoff springs on the clutch.

 

Where did you wind up vis a vis lobe centers?

[JerryMather]

The Rhinwest sprockets are nonadjustable unlike the APE type adjustable ones that are used on other bikes.

If you are set up at TDC and remove the old cam sprockets and replace them with the Rhinewest ones, aren't you just installing sprockets that are already degreed by the location of the new pin offset? I believe the Rhinewest sprockets are made as a straight change out.

Isn't it true that without an adjustable sprocket you can't adjust the degree of a cam unless you install it in the wrong timing chain link, which would make the timing way off.

 

Without pulling the motor I can't see how someone could get a degree wheel on this motor.

Rhinewest says it's a 1 1/2 hour job if your already checking valve adjustments anyway.

The package from them includes, two new cam sprockets and a new chip for your ecu for under $600.00, that they claim will increase the HP by 10 and gives you more torque throughout the power curve.

 

That's a lot less $ than putting on a new exhaust system with their claimed HP gains.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

You actually will have to bump the cams into their new position to align the pins as they are no longer going to be in the same place. I could see they are non adjustable from the pictures.

 

The degree wheel is going to require and adaptor to fit it to the crank pulley and probably a longer bolt. When I did my K100 I pulled the entire drive line, just lifted the chassis off the motor but that bike was modified to let me do that.

 

Your gonna have to pull the fairing and maybe the cam chain cover as well as the cam cover to do this job.

 

I don't need selling on the benefits of cam timing and lobe center adjustment. Sounds like you have drunk the kool aid. Why not give us a report.

 

A trip to the drag strip before hand for some trap speed readings and then an after will quickly establish whether the mods were worth it. From the dyno charts, I only saw that 10HP at the very peak of the RPM range. Might not do much unless you are perfectly geared.

[BrentBoshart]

I, for one, would be interested to hear your results.

 

Well, here are some "real life" results not just dyno charts. My Rhinewest chip/cam sprockets kit arrived this week and luckily we are experiencing a mild spell. I have the luxury of having 2 K1200RSs in the garage. While both stock, everytime we raced (including roll-on tests) we were dead even. So, I got the kit installed and out we went for a test. As soon as I let out the clutch and pulled away, I knew there was a difference, pulled stronger right off idle. My bike felt different, crisper, more responsive. I was telling myself, I was not going to be disappointed if there were not speed differences, because I just liked the way it felt. So, 60mph/6th we cracked open the throttle together, the modified bike LEAPT ahead, by 80mph was 30-40ft ahead. I couldn't believe it! Swapped riders, same test, same results. 3rd gear/30mph, leapt ahead again. Results are dramatic, a clear difference. Always thought my bike was very smooth, but that is even better too, nil vibration, the slight buzz when rolling off the throttle at around 70-75mph is gone. I'm a believer, very pleased with this mod!!

[JerryMather]

Brent-

Thanks for your input on this.